Topic: EL: Ata 0 vs 1 Liv (3-1) Mo 7’

[Redley]

No I'm not, it's been going on for a while. Stop frothing at the mouth, it's a fair point. Literally someone pointed out Klopp's 'use of subs' THIS SEASON and he's received widespread praise for it as it's become a 'thing' with us this season, where he's had to make 3-4 changes to either rescue a result or get the team playing, and it's because whomever plays up top generally can be great one week, not great the next.

None of our front lads are that consistant. They just aren't. Gakpo was great last week, poor last night. Nunez was great, has totally gone off the boil. Diaz will be great one match, barely effective the next. It's a valid criticism mate.

You just said it there. The last few games. Darwins played 21 games this year and has had 8 where he's not scored or assisted. Mo has had 14 out of 38 where he's not all season. Diaz has been outstanding since January, Diogo is literally just back from injury but was very consistent before then.

There's no frothing of mouths Its just not really that accurate, our attack has been on fire this season. You can count on one hand the amount of games we've not scored in this season, just frustratingly most of them have been in the last fortnight.

[LFCEmpire]

Such a short time since I smiled at drawing Atalanta, though we would absolutely walk this competition. Shows that nothing is for certain in football, its the beauty of the sport.

We have to regroup and go again.

[Historical Fool]

Klopp out

?

[spider-neil]

?

It's a joke.

[Paul JH]

There's no frothing of mouths Its just not really that accurate, our attack has been on fire this season. You can count on one hand the amount of games we've not scored in this season, just frustratingly most of them have been in the last fortnight.

I don't think you fully get what I'm trying to say.

[fridgepants]

Had the game on the radio last night and it sounds like it was a blessing. Commentators went from talking about how great they were in the first half to emphasising how much time was running out in the second, and it was draining (and I had literally spent most of the day in bed)

I guess at least some people will be getting money back on those Dublin hotel reservations and can use it to self-medicate with Doritos?

[thaddeus]

The fourth game in a row that we've not scored from open play and none of the opposition have been particularly strong (albeit Atalanta were very well organised).  Apart from Mo's misplaced lob - that from memory came from us pinching the ball on the halfway line - we created nothing.  The final 20 minutes were gruelling as we repeatedly struggled to get across the halfway line.

The next three games are also all against teams that like to sit in and counter attack (Fulham, Everton and West Ham).

I don't know what the solution is.  When we play riskier passes we get shredded on the break and when we play safe passes we eventually get crowded out.  Maybe committing fewer players forward but getting the ball forward quicker so that players like Darwin can operate in a bit of space.

[Draex]

The fourth game in a row that we've not scored from open play and none of the opposition have been particularly strong (albeit Atalanta were very well organised).  Apart from Mo's misplaced lob - that from memory came from us pinching the ball on the halfway line - we created nothing.  The final 20 minutes were gruelling as we repeatedly struggled to get across the halfway line.

The next three games are also all against teams that like to sit in and counter attack (Fulham, Everton and West Ham).

I don't know what the solution is.  When we play riskier passes we get shredded on the break and when we play safe passes we eventually get crowded out.  Maybe committing fewer players forward but getting the ball forward quicker so that players like Darwin can operate in a bit of space.

I just don't think the players trust eachother, everyone is playing with the thought "I can't fuck up because.." Defenders know forwards aren't scoring, forwards know defences is conceeding goals, midfield trying to cover far too much ground. Klopp built his team based on being utterly brave on and off the ball, any one player being hesitant and it falls appart.

That's why Trent was a breah of fresh air, he'd try the hard balls, he ran through midfield, he just ran out of gash.

[Bennett]

he just ran out of gash.

Happens to the best of us.

[Eeyore]

I just don't think the players trust eachother, everyone is playing with the thought "I can't fuck up because.." Defenders know forwards aren't scoring, forwards know defences is conceeding goals, midfield trying to cover far too much ground. Klopp built his team based on being utterly brave on and off the ball, any one player being hesitant and it falls appart.

That's why Trent was a breah of fresh air, he'd try the hard balls, he ran through midfield, he just ran out of gash.

You have a sick mind my friend.

[Draex]

Happens to the best of us.

Balls and gash, well that might have been a better video to watch last night

[Peabee]

It's more than 360 minutes.

Gakpo scored late in the Sheffield United game from open play. We've played the end of that game and four full games more without an open play goal since that one.

You're forgetting the United game (FA Cup).

[thaddeus]

You have a sick mind my friend.

Draex was simply typing in the style of Shteve McClaren.  It's you who has the dirty mind.

[Andy82lfc]

That's why Trent was a breah of fresh air, he'd try the hard balls, he ran through midfield, he just ran out of gash.

[redbyrdz]

The fourth game in a row that we've not scored from open play and none of the opposition have been particularly strong (albeit Atalanta were very well organised).  Apart from Mo's misplaced lob - that from memory came from us pinching the ball on the halfway line - we created nothing.  The final 20 minutes were gruelling as we repeatedly struggled to get across the halfway line.

The next three games are also all against teams that like to sit in and counter attack (Fulham, Everton and West Ham).

I don't know what the solution is.  When we play riskier passes we get shredded on the break and when we play safe passes we eventually get crowded out.  Maybe committing fewer players forward but getting the ball forward quicker so that players like Darwin can operate in a bit of space.

We had a couple of other chances. A really nice team effort that resulted in nobody wanting to.shoot. and I think Diaz also had a good chance where he lifted it over the keeper, but he just managed to grab it.


The problem is, we look low on confidence for the shot on goal. Players preferring to pass, instead of messing it up themselves, or players not convinced enough of their own ability to make it happen (like Salah's miss). And then instead we have players having a go from distance, when a goal is unlikely and we basically just concede possesion.

[Eeyore]

Draex was simply typing in the style of Shteve McClaren.  It's you who has the dirty mind.

He is from Manchester so is probably used to standing in the pissing down rain under a brolly.

[CHOPPER]

No urgency, no passion and tragically what felt like no organisation.

The one thing that sticks out the worst for me, is we are very predictable - easy to mark, easy to counter and easy to nullify. Heavy metal football seems like a long, long time ago.

Role on Sunday.

[thaddeus]

No urgency, no passion and tragically what felt like no organisation.

The one thing that sticks out the worst for me, is we are very predictable - easy to mark, easy to counter and easy to nullify. Heavy metal football seems like a long, long time ago.

Role on Sunday.

My mind was drifting off to memories of heavy metal football during that last 20 minutes.  The Dortmund performance at the same stage of the UEFA Cup was like chalk and cheese to last night.  Admittedly Dortmund had the chances to have killed off that tie but if being two goals down in a knock-out cup tie isn't the moment to throw caution to the wind then when is?!

It's easy with hindsight but rather than taking off Diaz could we have moved him to right back and had his energy and ball carrying from deep with Salah/Jota ahead of him?  Anything just to disrupt Atalanta from being so comfortable.  Gomez coming on for Trent felt like an admission that we were content to escape with the bit of pride that a 1-0 victory gave us.

[Andy82lfc]

Was not really that pissed off with the result, it was the seemingly absolute loss of fight and any kind of idea of how to break them down, was fuming at that at full time.

I mean these tactics are not exactly out of the blue, and also not difficult to beat, as them sitting 6th in Serie A proves. I am only hanging onto some crazy notion that Klopp is trying to preserve them for the last 6 finals we have now and the message was to not exert too much. That whole passing around the back four for about 20 minutes was mind-boggling.

At least we showed something of back to our usual selves in parts of the first half, better show that the entire match Sunday or it's curtains.

[fridgepants]

I missed out on the zenith of Klopp's time here, really, and just wanted to be there for a big comeback if not a major trophy - it's not the same when it happened before you were properly paying attention and you only know of it all second-hand. (I did watch the CL final in 2022 but wasn't very well during that period so don't remember too much - and didn't have access to live games back then.) Real Madrid last year was so disappointing but I'm not sure if this is worse, you know?

[CHOPPER]

My mind was drifting off to memories of heavy metal football during that last 20 minutes.  The Dortmund performance at the same stage of the UEFA Cup was like chalk and cheese to last night.  Admittedly Dortmund had the chances to have killed off that tie but if being two goals down in a knock-out cup tie isn't the moment to throw caution to the wind then when is?!

It's easy with hindsight but rather than taking off Diaz could we have moved him to right back and had his energy and ball carrying from deep with Salah/Jota ahead of him?  Anything just to disrupt Atalanta from being so comfortable.  Gomez coming on for Trent felt like an admission that we were content to escape with the bit of pride that a 1-0 victory gave us.

I wanted to go to a 3-3-4, push Trent up into mid, I’d have taken Jones off an as we did, bring Jota and Nunez on for Salah and Jones. Something that looked like we were arsed about winning and wanted to push for it.

[redbyrdz]

I wanted to go to a 3-3-4, push Trent up into mid, I’d have taken Jones off an as we did, bring Jota and Nunez on for Salah and Jones. Something that looked like we were arsed about winning and wanted to push for it.

We finished with four attackers on the pitch, its not that we weren't trying to make the right changes. Unfortunately jone of the subs seemed up for it. The energy had gone out of the team, and the subs just neatly fit into the low-energy style of play, for whatever reason. I remember Nunez being on the edge of the box and losing the ball, which was just a meter behind him. He just turned round and stood there, instead of trying to get it back.

[fridgepants]

When I heard Jota was coming on I thought 'ah, now we got a stew going...' but it just sounded like he and Nunez were really ineffective from the radio commentary at least.

[Andy82lfc]

We finished with four attackers on the pitch, its not that we weren't trying to make the right changes. Unfortunately jone of the subs seemed up for it. The energy had gone out of the team, and the subs just neatly fit into the low-energy style of play, for whatever reason. I remember Nunez being on the edge of the box and losing the ball, which was just a meter behind him. He just turned round and stood there, instead of trying to get it back.

Yeah it was nothing to do with selection of subs, people were thrown on at 60 mins but it had no affect as we insisted on passing it around aimlessly and hardly anyone moving into space for the ball, and like you say some just didn't seem to have any fight in them.

[oldman]

the day after and I can still hardly believe how we played - needing 3 goals our goalkeeper must have had the ball at his feet for 10 minutes of that game.

I genuinely haven't seen us play like that before except when we were 3 up and killing a game

but as disappointed as we all are we have to remember that at the start of the season we would have settled for top 4 and a cup and who knows we are still in with a shot of the league.

I'm hoping that Fulham is not going to be as tough a watch and we owe it to Klopp to still believe we can do it.
before he came I never thought I'd see us win the league again let alone be champions of Europe and the world in my remaining years - but
Jurgen Klopp gave that to me and for that I'm eternally grateful
 

[HeartAndSoul]

Just watched the highlights when we won over there 5-0 a few years ago. The difference in our forward player is staggering. The decisiveness, direct running, pressing and clinical ability was miles above anything we’ve seen recently.

[TipTopKop]

The brutal truth is that the only way for us to compete is for the manager to be absolutely perfect. To get us to overachieve. We don't compete at the top end of the market any more for transfers. We don't match the top clubs for net spend.

We expect someone like Klopp to in essence to carry our hopes and dreams. To get us to overachieve season in season out. It just isn't possible. We are a big club in fits and starts. When a Benitez, a Klopp or Rodgers for one season elevates us into a top side.

I agree Al. When you look at our spending, we have no business sitting at the tables Klopp had us in.

He has worked wonders and the next man up has my prayers.

[Andy82lfc]

the day after and I can still hardly believe how we played - needing 3 goals our goalkeeper must have had the ball at his feet for 10 minutes of that game.

I genuinely haven't seen us play like that before except when we were 3 up and killing a game

Funny thing is we never do that most of time even when we are trying to kill the game.

Seen us attack more when we've been ahead and needing to actually keep the ball.

Was absolutely bizarre.

On the positive side hopefully when we play on the weekend without any of that pressing and man marking going on the players may feel like it's a piece of piss.

[Fromola]

My mind was drifting off to memories of heavy metal football during that last 20 minutes.  The Dortmund performance at the same stage of the UEFA Cup was like chalk and cheese to last night.[/b]  Admittedly Dortmund had the chances to have killed off that tie but if being two goals down in a knock-out cup tie isn't the moment to throw caution to the wind then when is?!

It's easy with hindsight but rather than taking off Diaz could we have moved him to right back and had his energy and ball carrying from deep with Salah/Jota ahead of him?  Anything just to disrupt Atalanta from being so comfortable.  Gomez coming on for Trent felt like an admission that we were content to escape with the bit of pride that a 1-0 victory gave us.

It's different at Anfield though, particularly a 2nd leg attacking the Kop. We were heavy metal that second half against City, that was only a month ago.

Going through after a 3 goal defeat at home in the first leg is almost unheard of. 2 or 3 goal deficits are overturned far more when home 2nd.

The damage was basically done in the first leg. Complaint last night was the complete lack of ideas last 20 minutes when we needed to at last have a proper go. Even in the first leg we created a good amount of chances, we just wasted them.

[Fromola]

Funny thing is we never do that most of time even when we are trying to kill the game.

Seen us attack more when we've been ahead and needing to actually keep the ball.

Was absolutely bizarre.

On the positive side hopefully when we play on the weekend without any of that pressing and man marking going on the players may feel like it's a piece of piss.

Yeah, we were too gung ho in the first game chasing the 1-0 deficit if anything (and then 2-0) given how easily Atalanta were creating good chances.

We'd have been better off playing like we did in the second half last night in the first leg. Lose 1-0 and then score early 2nd leg and the tie is level. Win 2-1 first leg and concede early and the tie is level. Don't let the tie get away from you first and foremost.

[kop306]

Just watched the highlights when we won over there 5-0 a few years ago. The difference in our forward player is staggering. The decisiveness, direct running, pressing and clinical ability was miles above anything we’ve seen recently.

weve not replaced mane and bobby yet

salah is passed his best now

[John C]

The brutal truth is that the only way for us to compete is for the manager to be absolutely perfect. To get us to overachieve. We don't compete at the top end of the market any more for transfers. We don't match the top clubs for net spend.

We expect someone like Klopp to in essence to carry our hopes and dreams. To get us to overachieve season in season out. It just isn't possible. We are a big club in fits and starts. When a Benitez, a Klopp or Rodgers for one season elevates us into a top side.

Your solution new ideas in the dugout. No wonder we burn out managers with fans like you.

Sigh, but I won't let you take me there.
How about the players and the management team recognising what sort of game they are in. It's like after the first leg during last nights 90 minutes they all forgot they are going to be tightly marked. Like the first time someone was dispossessed quickly it was a shock. Like when our subs came on they weren't told as soon as you get the ball one of them will be at you. Even if they were told, guess what, our player forgot one of them was gonna be at us.

Nobody can even say we were mugged over the 2-legs, our far more expensive squad were out fought in every department.

We got the draw we wanted but got the intensity we didn't want.

We got our full strength team available for the game but the team & management didn't have much nous available for the ties.

[mullyred94]

Sigh, but I won't let you take me there.
How about the players and the management team recognising what sort of game they are in. It's like after the first leg during last nights 90 minutes they all forgot they are going to be tightly marked. Like the first time someone was dispossessed quickly it was a shock. Like when our subs came on they weren't told as soon as you get the ball one of them will be at you. Even if they were told, guess what, our player forgot one of them was gonna be at us.

Nobody can even say we were mugged over the 2-legs, our far more expensive squad were out fought in every department.

We got the draw we wanted but got the intensity we didn't want.

We got our full strength team available for the game but the team & management didn't have much nous available for the ties.

Spot on

[decosabute]

You're forgetting the United game (FA Cup).

Not sure what you mean? - that was before the Sheffield United game.

Unless you mean the league game at Old Trafford? We didn't score from open play there either - Diaz scored from a set piece and Salah with a penalty.