Topic: SPOILERS The Chainless Game of Thrones and House of the Dragon Discussion

[oojason]

Spoiler

I am glad I am not the only one that thinks this.  Are there no scouts on the open seas?  1,000 ships made in three weeks by a small group of islands can just sneak up on you in one fell swoop?  Are you not looking?

Did Euron take an arrow to the neck and get slashed a couple times by a sand snake, which are notorious for poisoning their blades...  He is acting rather fucking sprightly the next few days. 

Euron is literally out of a comic book. 

Hopefully we are seeing the back of these shit Dornishwomen and there is some actually smart, reasoned Dornish man/woman to take their place of power.  Also, Yara is supposed to be a great, tough leader.  She seems to be all talk and no action.

The fact that Cersei has this contrived power now is rather absurd as no one likes her and she has shown previously she is the worst leader and diplomat in Westeros.  They need an antagonist so they've made her a clever propagandist who knows how to win people to her side. 

Sorry, I am a massive griper on some of this.  The first 5 seasons at least made sense logically in the crazy world we were set in.

The rest of the episode was solid.  Jon and Sansa should really chat before hashing these things out in front of every Northern lord.   

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Spoiler

Euron likely had his own fleet before he even set foot back on the Iron Islands - and probably had some plundered loot to help pay/build more - would be nice to have seen a couple of scenes showing this though. Even though he says there are 1,000 ships - it doesn't necessarily mean he has that amount - he does seems to like to 'talk the talk' as it were and may be exaggerating a little...

I don't think the 3 Sandsnakes would poison their blades all the time - they may carry or know of antidotes - but wouldn't want to risk accidentally cutting themselves or allies whilst looking after their weaponry... and they were all caught off-guard by a surprise attack - 2 of whom were seemingly drunk at the time.

For Cersei - we've been has shown has she manipulates people to get what she wants - and also her own shortcomings in the minutiae as well as lacking an understanding of the bigger picture (ie Jamie telling her she doesn't understand the severity of situation in the 1st ep of this season, her mistakes on the Small Council previous...) Leaders, Kings and Queens make mistakes in this show no matter who they are - how smart, noble, savvy, honest they appear to be... and Cersei is not great at actually leading - she excels in the journey to get to the power and the manipulation side of things...

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[Red_Irishman]

Certainly been a big drop off in the quality of the dialogue since the show has run put of book material. It's noticeable.

Spoiler

This week's episode was good. Not sure about episode one though. One of the gripes I have with episode 2: There's no known cure for grayscale except there is, just remove the scabs and put some ointment on it... Surely if thats known to have worked a couple of times it would be commonly used & perfected. Seems simple enough to me. Thought the cure would entail a much more complicated process.

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[jooneyisdagod]

Spoiler

To be honest the way women characters are generally written is an annoyance to me, as there is rarely the layers that you get with a lot of the male leads. Some of the rape scenes to me where not needed, for the story telling. The other thing that is there is a tendency to make the women too much like the men, the only thing their interested in is the power. Why not show one of them actually using some intelligence, as opposed to just being the same. The women who moved in that world did not have the same toughness, so had to use their guile and be cleverer, in order to survive in a man's world. So I agree they could make it more realistic.

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Spoiler

And to me too. I think GOT has gotten really poor in writing them once they drifted from the source material. Seriously, does anyone look at those Dornish "brood of bitches" and think Dorne is a progressive society?

Unfortunately, the reactionary shoe horning of women into positions of power doesn't compensate for the basic dudebros they are written as these days. Hell, even Cersei evokes some sympathy when you read her thoughts about the deep sense of injustice she has felt due to being born a woman in a time of rampant misogyny.

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I can't be arsed to change my Tapatalk settings because my time is more important than yours

[Macphisto80]

I was sort of disappointed when...

Spoiler

the camera didn't pan down to show a little stumpy nub where Greyworm's tackle used to be. The show writers really missed some comedic opportunity for Missandei to say "Ah, so that's why they call you 'Greyworm.'" At least that would have subverted the cliche and protracted nature of that scene. Also, Jorah's greyscale looks like it would itch like fuck, so it was strangely satisfying to see it being removed. 

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[legendkiller]

I was sort of disappointed when...

Spoiler

the camera didn't pan down to show a little stumpy nub where Greyworm's tackle used to be. The show writers really missed some comedic opportunity for Missandei to say "Ah, so that's why they call you 'Greyworm.'" At least that would have subverted the cliche and protracted nature of that scene. Also, Jorah's greyscale looks like it would itch like fuck, so it was strangely satisfying to see it being removed. 

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U have issues my friend  ......I was terrified they would

[Garrus]

Certainly been a big drop off in the quality of the dialogue since the show has run put of book material. It's noticeable.

Spoiler

This week's episode was good. Not sure about episode one though. One of the gripes I have with episode 2: There's no known cure for grayscale except there is, just remove the scabs and put some ointment on it... Surely if thats known to have worked a couple of times it would be commonly used & perfected. Seems simple enough to me. Thought the cure would entail a much more complicated process.

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Spoiler

The insinuation is that it worked a couple of times but it came at a great cost to the surgeon who contracted grayscale. That's probably the main reason why the procedure was forbidden.

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[B0151?]

Spoiler

To be honest the way women characters are generally written is an annoyance to me, as there is rarely the layers that you get with a lot of the male leads. Some of the rape scenes to me where not needed, for the story telling. The other thing that is there is a tendency to make the women too much like the men, the only thing their interested in is the power. Why not show one of them actually using some intelligence, as opposed to just being the same. The women who moved in that world did not have the same toughness, so had to use their guile and be cleverer, in order to survive in a man's world. So I agree they could make it more realistic.

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In that world? The fantasy world created by GRR Martin? Always makes me chuckle when people say that.

I think women who are in positions of power being interested in power is pretty historically and reality accurate though, and nearly all of the women in the show do try to be clever and make moves. There's only Brienne, Sand Snakes and Arya that are really fighters. Brienne is great and intended to be a really exceptional character (in terms of being physically tough), Sand Snakes written badly think everyone can agree on that, Arya fantastical (as well as a child sent a bit nuts by the bloody world she's in).

If you want women with power to be bloodshy then that is probably the unrealistic thing to expect in terms of medieval vibes. That was just the way of the world, Elizabeth I chopped off many heads with no hesitation I imagine.

[McrRed]

Good episode. I've got nothing to say that hasn't been said already. I think I'm better at suspending disbelief than many on here, curiously, whilst remembering that it's just a show. The greatest show, at that.

Ah missandei. I see greyworm went to the same silver tongued love making school as Jon Snow. They should meet up soon and compare notes.

[El Lobo]

Haha, if you managed it I'd be asking for your paypal details to wire you some money.  She is incredible!

Yeah sadly I was very politely told thanks but no thanks on both occasions 

[Buck Pete]

I for one loved Euron's Lord Flashheart type arrival.

Hoorah!!!

[clinical]

Yes it's nowhere near as good as it used to be when following books, but it's still the best/most entertaining show on TV.

Spoiler

But where the hell is Ghost???!!

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[El Lobo]

Yes it's nowhere near as good as it used to be when following books, but it's still the best/most entertaining show on TV.

Spoiler

But where the hell is Ghost???!!

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Spoiler

Yeah fuck I've been wondering that! I think he might still be at castle black? He was last seen there when they were trying to break into that room I think

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[clinical]

Spoiler

Yeah fuck I've been wondering that! I think he might still be at castle black? He was last seen there when they were trying to break into that room I think

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Spoiler

Oh maybe yeah! For some reason I think Ghost will end up helping Bran somehow.

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[Jonny-LFC]

Yes it's nowhere near as good as it used to be when following books, but it's still the best/most entertaining show on TV.

Spoiler

But where the hell is Ghost???!!

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Spoiler

Still about somewhere. Didn't they say he'd have been in the battle of the b*s, but they used the CGI budget on WunWun instead?!

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[Schmidt]

Spoiler

I thought it was a really good episode. Arya meeting Nymeria was a nice touch, and it made sense that she would go her own way as she has a pack to lead and take care of (and go hunt other people with apparently. Bit gutted they teased us with an Arya and Jon reunion and then immediately sent Jon elsewhere, but it'll be worth it if he finally meets up with Dany after all this time.

I was glad Euron made his move quickly rather than dragging his promise out. His sneak attack didn't bother me too much either as he's already been set up as a well travelled pirate who no doubt knows how to use awful weather to his advantage, he also knew that Yara was at Dragonstone and the route she would likely take when she left. It's possible the sand snakes had poisoned weapons but even if they did I'd imagine he's fully aware of that, given how much of the world he's supposedly seen.

It's good to see Sansa get a chance in charge, though the Littlefinger stuff feels off at the moment. Despite his climb in power he's been reduced to a loitering weasel, doing nothing of note to turn things in his favour. If he somehow gets inside Sansa's head now it'll come off as incredibly contrived and unbelievable. Personally I'm hoping Arya kills him just for a giggle.

The one thing I'm struggling with is the Maesters. These guys are supposed to be the doctors of this world, researchers with a thirst for knowledge and the aim of giving up their lives in order to help mankind, yet they don't seem to give a fuck about anything and have no interest in learning anything new.

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[Chris~]

I'm assuming euron has an itk with danaerys which would explain how he knew when everything was happening

[Phil M]

Spoiler

I thought it was a really good episode. Arya meeting Nymeria was a nice touch, and it made sense that she would go her own way as she has a pack to lead and take care of (and go hunt other people with apparently. Bit gutted they teased us with an Arya and Jon reunion and then immediately sent Jon elsewhere, but it'll be worth it if he finally meets up with Dany after all this time.

I was glad Euron made his move quickly rather than dragging his promise out. His sneak attack didn't bother me too much either as he's already been set up as a well travelled pirate who no doubt knows how to use awful weather to his advantage, he also knew that Yara was at Dragonstone and the route she would likely take when she left. It's possible the sand snakes had poisoned weapons but even if they did I'd imagine he's fully aware of that, given how much of the world he's supposedly seen.

It's good to see Sansa get a chance in charge, though the Littlefinger stuff feels off at the moment. Despite his climb in power he's been reduced to a loitering weasel, doing nothing of note to turn things in his favour. If he somehow gets inside Sansa's head now it'll come off as incredibly contrived and unbelievable. Personally I'm hoping Arya kills him just for a giggle.

The one thing I'm struggling with is the Maesters. These guys are supposed to be the doctors of this world, researchers with a thirst for knowledge and the aim of giving up their lives in order to help mankind, yet they don't seem to give a fuck about anything and have no interest in learning anything new.

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Spoiler

Maybe just me but I didn't think it was all that. Plus find the acting very hit and miss. I thought the sex scene with Grey Worm and Missandei seemed to be just like, oh we haven't had anyone naked for a while, might as well be these two! Cue overly long awkwardness. Also, the Greyjoy battle scene on the boat, how many fucking times did we see Euron seem to get stabbed and seemingly seriously wounded by the Sand sisters before he, without any difficulty, captured (killed?) Yara?

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[MagicHat]

Thought it was good but not great episode, dialogue doesn't sing quite as much as it used, some scenes seemed to go on a minute too long

Spoiler

I liked Winterfell (despite Jon deciding that running his plan past Sansa before talking to his lords isn't needed, he will come to regret attacking Littlefinger I suspect), Danrys scenes were good (bar that love scene), I liked the Lannister stuff particularly the dragon dungeon, the greyscale scenes though they need to go a bit more into why this was stopped by past doctors. Arya stuff bored me, the boat fight (how did the attackers not get spotted) dragged but I have enjoyed the Greyjoy dynamics and did here, the flirty but protective sister and the look on her face when she realized Theon had ditched her, Theon fighting bravely but the fragile part of him returning though that moment might yet save them both given I can't see how he could save her at that moment. 

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[Schmidt]

Spoiler

Maybe just me but I didn't think it was all that. Plus find the acting very hit and miss. I thought the sex scene with Grey Worm and Missandei seemed to be just like, oh we haven't had anyone naked for a while, might as well be these two! Cue overly long awkwardness. Also, the Greyjoy battle scene on the boat, how many fucking times did we see Euron seem to get stabbed and seemingly seriously wounded by the Sand sisters before he, without any difficulty, captured (killed?) Yara?

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Spoiler

Yeah the love scene was just awkward, it was only a few minutes of the episode though so not too much time wasted. Euron is fucking mental and clearly hard as nails, I'm sure pure adrenaline got him through those fights without struggling with those injuries.

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Spoiler

I liked Winterfell (despite Jon deciding that running his plan past Sansa before talking to his lords isn't needed, he will come to regret attacking Littlefinger I suspect), Danrys scenes were good (bar that love scene), I liked the Lannister stuff particularly the dragon dungeon, the greyscale scenes though they need to go a bit more into why this was stopped by past doctors. Arya stuff bored me, the boat fight (how did the attackers not get spotted) dragged but I have enjoyed the Greyjoy dynamics and did here, the flirty but protective sister and the look on her face when she realized Theon had ditched her, Theon fighting bravely but the fragile part of him returning though that moment might yet save them both given I can't see how he could save her at that moment. 

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Get out.

[redk84]

Every episode going under intense microscope! With it being known to be ending soon I can see why I guess

Spoiler

jon just goes with his gut everytime....can see why ramsay got the better of him strategically but it was nice thinking Arya would be reunited with her brother/sister moments before he left for dragonstone.

I hope Arya will have a genuine role to play and will not be just part of a group by going to Winterfell. Think I'd have preferred her travel on her own but I guess they have to start tying up stories with the war coming/starting.

Theon is a puss ain't he.....was killing folks left, right and centre before jumping ship! Lets see where he goes from here.

Lots of things yet to happen but glad the ball is rolling with this war, im sure even with the army danny has behind her and everything looking so rosy this season will belong to the baddies before the goodies come back then the white walkers will take over the show and an ultimate alliance will form to fight them!!

or not

We'll see 

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[JoeCole]

For those asking about Ghost

Bryan Cogman‏Verified account @b_cogman  Jul 24
 FYI... We shot a Jon/Ghost scene. Didn't make it in. I tried! Thx for watching, everybody. #Stormborn

[10 years on]

Why has jon not heard of brans arrival at castle black yet a letter from the citadel has arrived.

[Buck Pete]

When the rest have killed each other, I think Hot Pie will end up on the Iron Throne

[Macphisto80]

Why has jon not heard of brans arrival at castle black yet a letter from the citadel has arrived.

Flight delayed due to bad weather?

[redan]

Regarding Littlefinger

Spoiler

I think the writers are trying to allude to the fact that with Jon gone Littlefinger will make his move with Sansa. To not only be with her but to manipulate her -and therefore the North- to his advantage. However I believe Sansa will kill him this series. The North Remembers and she  remembers what he did to her when he sold her off to Ramsey. She is still recovering from that but is now finally in position to get revenge. I fully expect a scene where he thinks he has her where he wants only to be pushed/stabbed.

Littlefinger proved useful when she needed to recapture Winterfell and kill Ramsey, now she is Queen of the North, she no longer needs him. Also I can imagine that when she needs to explain how he died, she'll do an act like her performance at the Eerie and get away with it. Maybe even get the Vale at the same time   

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[Craigeth]

When the rest have killed each other, I think Hot Pie will end up on the Iron Throne

Ser Hot of House Pie
What is Bread may never Fry!

[Brian Blessed]

Regarding Littlefinger

Spoiler

I think the writers are trying to allude to the fact that with Jon gone Littlefinger will make his move with Sansa. To not only be with her but to manipulate her -and therefore the North- to his advantage. However I believe Sansa will kill him this series. The North Remembers and she  remembers what he did to her when he sold her off to Ramsey. She is still recovering from that but is now finally in position to get revenge. I fully expect a scene where he thinks he has her where he wants only to be pushed/stabbed.

Littlefinger proved useful when she needed to recapture Winterfell and kill Ramsey, now she is Queen of the North, she no longer needs him. Also I can imagine that when she needs to explain how he died, she'll do an act like her performance at the Eerie and get away with it. Maybe even get the Vale at the same time   

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Spoiler

I am thinking the same. The "twist" will be Sansa seems to be played, but in fact she is playing him.

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[Something Worse]

I'm assuming euron has an itk with danaerys which would explain how he knew when everything was happening

BREAKING: Danerys to send fleet back to Dorne tonight, subject to weather (winnersports.com)

[Schmidt]

I'm assuming euron has an itk with danaerys which would explain how he knew when everything was happening

Pretty much every possible destination they could've been headed to would require moving south from Dragonstone, and Dany sent ravens when she arrived there. It's not a stretch for Euron to know where they are, when they left and where to attack.

[Buck Pete]

Ser Hot of House Pie
What is Bread may never Fry!

Ser Hot will only ever bend the knee to House Gregg.

[S]

Spoiler

I think a lot of people try to apply logic to Game of Thrones in situations where you just have to accept it's fiction. I just took the climax of the last episode to be Euron utilising his superior knowledge of the seas to mount a stealth attack. That's all the explanation I need.

Not having a go, some people like speculation and that's fine. I just think it's unfair to pick apart every little detail of a show like this to find inconsistencies.

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[jillcwhomever]

Spoiler

I am thinking the same. The "twist" will be Sansa seems to be played, but in fact she is playing him.

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Spoiler

I have a sneaky feeling for that as well, it will be his arrogance that will do it for him.

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[Chavvie]

Spoiler

I think a lot of people try to apply logic to Game of Thrones in situations where you just have to accept it's fiction. I just took the climax of the last episode to be Euron utilising his superior knowledge of the seas to mount a stealth attack. That's all the explanation I need.

Not having a go, some people like speculation and that's fine. I just think it's unfair to pick apart every little detail of a show like this to find inconsistencies.

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Spoiler

Spot on.......another episode with 100% critical approval. Downright hilarious the bellyaching on here.

Poor dialogue? What was wrong with the Daenarys/Varys scene, genuine tension in that. Samwell/Jorah, Jaime/Randall and Arya/Hot Pie scenes were also perfectly decent. Added to that another example of the show doing what it does best with a cracking battle scene.

No new book in sight means the readers have the grumps

Roll on next week for a carbon copy

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[Macphisto80]

Euron's entrance on the gangplank was hilarious, though. He's a proper dirty pirate, that lad.

[Trada]

Spoiler

I get the feeling Theon with be swimming after the ship holding on to his log.  Like Gollum swimming after the boat with the Hobbits in.

Theon is playing the long game I think in a way doing what he did was the best option at the time so they could both live.

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[Trada]

Spoiler

how many fucking times did we see Euron seem to get stabbed and seemingly seriously wounded by the Sand sisters before he, without any difficulty, captured (killed?) Yara?

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Spoiler

I was thinking especially when he got stabbed in the family jewels. I just thought maybe I had missed something in an earlier episode that made him immune to pain or something 

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[Sheer Magnetism]

The dialogue is getting worse though, that scene at Dragonstone was pretty much all clunky exposition: "Jon Snow is a good man. He united the North and took the wildlings south, etc., etc., etc."

Spoiler

Also, the Greyworm/Missandei scene was pretty lame. Having said that, the Cersei scenes are still really good, and it was great to see Hotpie again too.

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[Sir Psycho Sexy]

Euron's entrance on the gangplank was hilarious, though. He's a proper dirty pirate, that lad.

Yeah, he's a cock but that was great. Even if it was completely unrealistic

[DrTobiasFunke]

Spoiler

Maybe just me but I didn't think it was all that. Plus find the acting very hit and miss. I thought the sex scene with Grey Worm and Missandei seemed to be just like, oh we haven't had anyone naked for a while, might as well be these two! Cue overly long awkwardness. Also, the Greyjoy battle scene on the boat, how many fucking times did we see Euron seem to get stabbed and seemingly seriously wounded by the Sand sisters before he, without any difficulty, captured (killed?) Yara?

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I don't remember any other show with such a huge range of acting talent 

Can be terrible in one scene then Lena Headey or Jim Broadbent in the next. I suppose it's similar to the Harry Potter movies when they had a lot of young in inexperienced actors alongside some of the best British actors of the last few decades.

[Lastrador]

The dialogue is getting worse though, that scene at Dragonstone was pretty much all clunky exposition: "Jon Snow is a good man. He united the North and took the wildlings south, etc., etc., etc."

Spoiler

Also, the Greyworm/Missandei scene was pretty lame. Having said that, the Cersei scenes are still really good, and it was great to see Hotpie again too.

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How is that exposition when the audience already knows that? What other examples of clunky exposition that's not exposition did we get? The excellent dialogue between Varys and Dany that addressed a very obvious problem? The battles plans between Dany, Tyrion and their allies? The dialogue bewteen Dany and Olenna? Where those all clunky exposition?