Author Topic: PL: Liverpool 3 v Brighton 3 Trossard 4', 17', 83', Bobby 33', 52', Webster 62'  (Read 38920 times)

Offline ThePoolMan

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Gerrard was shit and Bellingham is the goat. We get it. Soooo Liverpool 3 Brighton 3.....

I never ran down Gerrard. He is still our greatest ever player. I'm just hoping that bellingham cna be signed by us and surpass him in time.

Offline TSC

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Just a quick question, what's the atmosphere like at games at the minute? Difficult to tell watching the television. It seems flat but can be deceiving

Thought it was ok yesterday but Brighton racing into a two goal lead killed that somewhat.

Offline decosabute

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Firstly I never mentioned de Bruyne at all as a comparison.   Secondly since you agree that Bellingham might turn out evne better than Gerrard, how is that any different from what I am saying? I am saying he has a higher potential than Gerrard but whether he fulfils it or not is unknown. It seems to me there is little difference in substance between what u r saying and what I am saying.

No point in arguing this further with you and derailing the thread, so this will be my last post on it. But I never, ever said Bellingham might turn out better than them - I said it's not impossible he ends up being in their class. I personally would be surprised if he did end up that good, but I just can't rule it out, because I'm not stating pure hot air as fact like you.

You, on the other hand, are using a couple of wishy-washy quotes from people and some FM/FIFA-style assumptions and declaring he has more potential than Gerrard as fact. I don't know what age you are, but it comes across as something a teenager would say.

I hope that makes it clear there's a massive difference between what we're saying mate.

And by the way, to respond to one of your other posts, Gerrard at his peak was absolutely lightning quick for a midfielder - it's one of the most overlooked things that made him brilliant and allowed to play almost like a striker at times. Bellingham, for whatever potential he does possess and however good he might become, simply doesn't have that kind of explosiveness.
« Last Edit: October 2, 2022, 10:03:05 am by decosabute »

Offline Redric1970

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All the more reasonable for fsg to  whip the cheque book out and start putting the money where their mout h is and sign whoever the transfer team and manager want to replenish the midfield.

Horse has bolted springs to mind, come the end of the season if we don’t finish in the top 4 (and I wouldn’t put my house on it) you can forget the likes of bellingham etc, our ownership model is the issue, they bought the club for £300mil it’s now reported to be worth £4-£5billion. We need £300mil to put this right and that’s no exaggeration, come the end of the season when Milner, firmino, Keita, ox all leave for free. There is absolutely no chance on earth our owners will spend that sort of figure which still amusingly enough put us behind arsenal for spending, we should never have got in this position but penny pinching has a habit of catching up with you, our team is based on press and working there socks off unfortunately we now have the oldest team in the league and age has caught up
With us.
« Last Edit: October 2, 2022, 10:03:43 am by Redric1970 »

Offline keyop

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^

Thing is now that I am now worried about the world cup itself and the break. Klopp said that we couldnt carry on the rhythm following our win vs Ajax. Now, if at some point we get some form back then that break could mess that up.

I thought the breaks would help but they dont seem to. What we need to do is really go on a run of form and wrack up as many wins as we can right now, which isnt going to be easy considering the difficulty of the games.
Same here - sometimes a break doesn't always help as much as we think it might. I think the difference in Nov/Dec is it's a much longer break that we know about well in advance and can plan for. We know exactly who isn't going to the WC,  and also the likelihood of game time for those that are.

This recent PL break still included the Ajax game and some internationals, and was much more about getting key players back from injury. Whereas the 6 weeks when the WC is on is a chance for almost every player to have the pre season they didn't get in the summer, whilst working on the mental/systemic issues as well as physical aspects we've struggled with. It's also an opportunity for Ox/Keita to become options again, and Ramsay to become a back up option for Trent. The fact that 90% of our squad will be together is a massive advantage in that regard.

I still haven't given up on the title despite it getting more remote each week, as we clawed back a 14 point gap last season and took it to the last day. If Jurgen can find solutions, get back to basics and just grind out some wins (however ugly), then we might just go into that 6 weeks in a more positive frame of mind. I've no doubt the club is preparing a focused programme of tactical and physical work plus hopefully a team trip to a sunny training camp for bonding, and even some breaks for family time.

Whilst there's no doubt some of our players have been worn out by the relentless exertions of the last 5 seasons, suggestions that this team or individual players are ' finished' are wildy exaggerated given the context of 63 high pressure games in a single season. We were always going to have a transition season under Jurgen, and it's no coincidence that things aren't going perfectly. We've had the perfect storm of last seasons efforts, a shortened pre-season, a ton of injuries, plus trying to integrate Elliott, Carvalho, and Nunez whilst 5-6 of our best players are out of form all at the same time. We've also been unable to field Jones, Keita or Ox which means more minutes for Hendo or Milner, no rotation for Fabinho, or playing inexperienced players like Elliot/Carvalho in games and positions where we normally wouldn't have. Konates injury also meant no rest for Virgil.

If one or two players were struggling then we'd be OK, as we have enough quality and leadership elsewhere to compensate. But when Virgil, Trent, Robbo, Hendo, Fabinho, and even Salah have all been a level below their best, then performances and results will inevitably suffer.
« Last Edit: October 2, 2022, 10:05:58 am by keyop »
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Offline ThePoolMan

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No point in arguing this further with you and derailing the thread, so this will be my last post on it. But I never, ever said Bellingham might turn out better than them - I said it's not impossible he ends up being in their class. I personally would be surprised if he did end up that good, but I just can't rule it out, because I'm not stating pure hot air as fact like you.

You, on the other hand, are using a couple of wishy-washy quotes from people and some FM/FIFA-style assumptions and declaring he has more potential than Gerrard as fact. I don't know what age you are, but it comes across as something a teenager would say.

I hope that makes it clear there's a massive difference between what we're saying mate.

And by the way, to respond to one of your other posts, Gerrard at his peak was absolutely lightning quick for a midfielder - it's one of the most overlooked things that made him brilliant and allowed to play almost like a striker at times. Bellingham, for whatever potential he does possess and however good he might become, simply doesn't have that kind of explosiveness.

Yet again, u r making all sorts of unwarranted assumptions about me and focusing too much on me instead of the points I am making. As a matter of fsct I'm probably morr likely to be considerably older than you are, as I have been a fan since the early 80s. Just stick to interacting with my points and never mind about running me down, and the discussion will run much smoother for everyone.

I think you are selling bellingham short for pace and that has a lot to do with perceptions of speed rather than actual speed vs Gerrard.  Bellingham lopes along with the kind of unhurried grace that characterises van dijk but their actual speed would be quite surprising.

But fair enough u disagree with me over his potential vs Gerrard.  I am sure u will agree with me though that if we do sign bellingham, that we hope that he does turn out to become the best midfielder in the world playing for us to even surpass gerrard!

Offline StevoHimself

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That's not true though is it?

There's been plenty of games in recent seasons where we've played poorly and won, or made mistakes but gotten away with it. There's been plenty of discussion points and areas to debate even during long winning streaks. There's been some great points made and discussions had on post-match or player threads when we've been at our best.

The reality is many posters only come out when things are going badly, as the narrative or negativity they want to push can't be aired when things are good. I can guarantee many of the mood hoovers in this particular thread will completely disappear when we next go on a good run.

It obviously is true.

I'm not some doom-monger, but I'll readily admit I tend to read these post-match threads more after disappointing results or poor periods for the exact reasons the other poster mentioned.

Moreover, this a forum to discuss Liverpool Football Club, a team who aren't playing very well at the moment. Short of outright abuse, no discussion should be policed. I'm not sure how tepid someone would have to be to find offence at someone saying something as innocuous as "we're crap" after a bad result. The ones who can't wait to get in here and give it "bedwetter" after a bad result are the biggest bores.

Offline ThePoolMan

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Same here - sometimes a break doesn't always help as much as we think it might. I think the difference in Nov/Dec is it's a much longer break that we know about well in advance and can plan for. We know exactly who isn't going to the WC,  and also the likelihood of game time for those that are.

This recent PL break still included the Ajax game and some internationals, and was much more about getting key players back from injury. Whereas the 6 weeks when the WC is on is a chance for almost every player to have the pre season they didn't get in the summer, whilst working on the mental/systemic issues as well as physical aspects we've struggled with. It's also an opportunity for Ox/Keita to become options again, and Ramsay to become a back up option for Trent. The fact that 90% of our squad will be together is a massive advantage in that regard.

I still haven't given up on the title despite it getting more remote each week, as we clawed back a 14 point gap last season and took it to the last day. If Jurgen can find solutions, get back to basics and just grind out some wins (however ugly), then we might just go into that 6 weeks in a more positive frame of mind. I've no doubt the club is preparing a focused programme of tactical and physical work plus hopefully a team trip to a sunny training camp for bonding, and even some breaks for family time.

Whilst there's no doubt some of our players have been worn out by the relentless exertions of the last 5 seasons, suggestions that this team or individual players are ' finished' are wildy exaggerated given the context of 63 high pressure games in a single season. We were always going to have a transition season under Jurgen, and it's no coincidence that things aren't going perfectly. We've had the perfect storm of last seasons efforts, a shortened pre-season, a ton of injuries, plus trying to integrate Elliott, Carvalho, and Nunez whilst 5-6 of our best players are out of form all at the same time. We've also been unable to field Jones, Keita or Ox which means more minutes for Hendo or Milner, no rotation for Fabinho, or playing inexperienced players like Elliot/Carvalho in games and positions where we normally wouldn't have. Konates injury also meant no rest for Virgil.

If one or two players were struggling then we'd be OK, as we have enough quality and leadership elsewhere to compensate. But when Virgil, Trent, Robbo, Hendo, Fabinho, and even Salah have all been a level below their best, then performances and results will inevitably suffer.

Remembering how klopp was like in his last season for dortmund, we have to remember that he has never managed a club as long as he has for us.  It is difficult to keep running uphill against gravity season after season and everyone has a limit partocuparly since tussling with City is perhaps evne more difficult than matching bayern when he was managing dortmund. I hope he will find a way through this present difficulty to rebuild the team.

Offline ThePoolMan

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Horse has bolted springs to mind, come the end of the season if we don’t finish in the top 4 (and I wouldn’t put my house on it) you can forget the likes of bellingham etc, our ownership model is the issue, they bought the club for £300mil it’s now reported to be worth £4-£5billion. We need £300mil to put this right and that’s no exaggeration, come the end of the season when Milner, firmino, Keita, ox all leave for free. There is absolutely no chance on earth our owners will spend that sort of figure which still amusingly enough put us behind arsenal for spending, we should never have got in this position but penny pinching has a habit of catching up with you, our team is based on press and working there socks off unfortunately we now have the oldest team in the league and age has caught up
With us.

I only hope that being the canny businessmen they are, that fsg will realise that spending 300m gbp now may be the difference between keeping the current capital value of the club and watching the investment collapse if we fall out of CL qualification.

Offline RK7

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We can talk about systems all day long and there are some valid points but the biggest issue and concern is the individual errors and in some cases commitment. Some of these players need to be dropped from the team.
At 3-2 up, the manner in which Brighton equalised had nothing to do with the system, we had 6 players back in our box, Mo had just been dribbled past for the 2nd time in a matter of minutes, it summed us up at the moment.

Offline keyop

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It obviously is true.

I'm not some doom-monger, but I'll readily admit I tend to read these post-match threads more after disappointing results or poor periods for the exact reasons the other poster mentioned.

Moreover, this a forum to discuss Liverpool Football Club, a team who aren't playing very well at the moment. Short of outright abuse, no discussion should be policed. I'm not sure how tepid someone would have to be to find offence at someone saying something as innocuous as "we're crap" after a bad result. The ones who can't wait to get in here and give it "bedwetter" after a bad result are the biggest bores.
OK, we'll agree to disagree. Personally, I read and comment whether we win, lose or draw. I also urge the team on in the ground just as much when we're playing well as I do when we're playing badly. I'll also take context into account when results or performances aren't good, and don't make kneejerk comments about players or the club, or unfounded assumptions or accusations about what might be going on behind the scenes, or what we should or shouldn't have done in every transfer window. That's how I follow the club, and I think its probably a far more enjoyable and less stressful experience than only focusing on the negatives, or getting so angry when things don't go our way.
« Last Edit: October 2, 2022, 10:30:48 am by keyop »
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I dont think gerrard js necessarily any faster thna bellingham is though he may APPEAR faster because of his more all action style with arms and feet pumping like a train reaching top speed. Bellingham doesn't appear to be very fast because of a languid looking style of play that comes form the fsct tbta he makes everything look easier than it actually is. However he is pretty fast for a central midfielder  - the bundesliga clocks his top recorded speed to be 33.16 km/h. That is only about 3 km/h  slower than the likes of Nunez who is probably the fastest player we have currently.

https://www.bundesliga.com/en/bundesliga/player/jude-bellingham

As for him being supposedly not as versatile as Gerrard, he can play any position in central midfield but sees himself as ideally being the same no. 8 position that Gerrard was at his peak.

As for him being supposedly unable to play on the wing, Bellingham played 5 times on the wing last season for dortmund and created 5 scoring opportunities...

https://twitter.com/TheRealChampsFS/status/1534286328111812608

Bellingham is the nearest player who has appeared to Steven Gerrard since Gerrard himself retired...

I checked up on Bellingham plenty last season when linked. You're right in that he has a languid, relaxed running style, which is why I said he's mobile, can cover the pitch well, he's not lacking there. There's still a difference from there, which allows you to beat players with your technical ability 1 v 1 - which Bellingham is great at - and being able to do that, as well as power through players and around them, and leave them behind. Gerrard could do all three. From what I've seen of the footage, Bellingham lacks in the latter, that's where I disagree when you say he has more breadth of skills, among other aspects.

If he plays his career choices right Bellingham will go on to have a very good career, easily win more than Stevie, if he joins the likes of Madrid or City; but he won't come near Gerrard's level nor legacy imo. He's also not worth blowing our entire budget on when the way Klopp structures us it's far more critical to have peak Salahs and Manes together.

Offline TipTopKop

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Oldest and most tiresome type of post on RAWK.

What's there to discuss when we've won our 8th game in a row or whatever? I mean, sometimes I'd come on and single a player out for particular praise, but really there's nothing to say except "we're great".
...
...
Not to mention the amount of grief you'd get if you came in after a win saying "fuck it lads, our squad needs refreshing as we're looking a bit old, and hasn't Ox been gone for ages?". People would be telling you to give yer head a wobble, labeling you a doom monger etc.

Offline ThePoolMan

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I checked up on Bellingham plenty last season when linked. You're right in that he has a languid, relaxed running style, which is why I said he's mobile, can cover the pitch well, he's not lacking there. There's still a difference from there, which allows you to beat players with your technical ability 1 v 1 - which Bellingham is great at - and being able to do that, as well as power through players and around them, and leave them behind. Gerrard could do all three. From what I've seen of the footage, Bellingham lacks in the latter, that's where I disagree when you say he has more breadth of skills, among other aspects.

If he plays his career choices right Bellingham will go on to have a very good career, easily win more than Stevie, if he joins the likes of Madrid or City; but he won't come near Gerrard's level nor legacy imo. He's also not worth blowing our entire budget on when the way Klopp structures us it's far more critical to have peak Salahs and Manes together.

Actually Gerrard couldn't beat his man one on one through dribbling skill - he was not a good dribbler which was one of his few weaknesses.  What he did was to push the ball beyond his marker and then try to outpace him. On the other hand bellingham is a very good dribbler and very difficult to Rob of possession.  Bellingham can also do the push the ball beyond the marker and run full pelt down towards the other goal but since he has more strings to his bow, he does not need to when he can carry out more high percentage strategies like dropping a shoulder and wrong footing his opponent.

If fsg won't spend the requisite 200 to 300m to refresh our midfield, then they will consign the club to the nether realm of being outside the top 4. It is as simple as that - they have benefited from not needing to spend as much as other owners in tbe last few years but the chickens have returned to roost.  By the end of this season  it is likely the only true first twan central midfielders we have left  are Henderson and thiago and fabinho and all three are pace-challenged and two out of three are injury prone and 2 out of 3 are the wrong side of 30 while fabinho looks shot already.  There is no alternative but to spend serious money. Now...
« Last Edit: October 2, 2022, 11:09:01 am by ThePoolMan »

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It's clear as day what happened in this summer.

The Tchouameni chase proves that CM was the priority. With the funds raised for him through player sales. He chose Madrid, that happens. Onto the next target.

However then Mane announces he wanted to leave which threw a real spanner in the works because unlike Coutinho before him he had only a year left on his deal so we couldn't command a big fee.

So then all the funds from player sales which were intended for a new CM had to get diverted to a Mane replacement.

And this is the result.

Mane told the club he was leaving last summer.  They have known about it for ages
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Offline ThePoolMan

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I agree that the club always meant to sign tchouameni AND numez during the last window. They missed out on the former and chose to keep their powder dry using the same logic they used for van dijk but miscalculated as to the State of our midfield, not realising the situation was so dire. There is on going speculation over beĺlingham and even valverde. I suspect the club hierarchy knows they fouled up badly and thye need to spend big in January and in the summer.

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Actually Gerrard couldn't beat his man one on one through dribbling skill - he was not a good dribbler which was one of his few weaknesses.  What he did was to push the ball beyond his marker and then try to outpace him. On the other hand bellingham is a very good dribbler and very difficult to Rob of possession.  Bellingham can also do the push the ball beyond the marker and run full pelt down towards the other goal but since he has more strings to his bow, he does not need to when he can carry out more high percentage strategies like dropping a shoulder and wrong footing his opponent.



Nah. Like I said earlier in the thread, Stevie's first goal at 18 was him dropping his shoulder twice, beating two players on skill and putting it in. Show me one goal from the dribbler Bellingham equal to that.

Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwkP73Ogry0

You would hope this sort of thing is muscle memory for a liverpool fan, anyway, there you go.
« Last Edit: October 2, 2022, 11:15:09 am by surfer. Fuck you generator. »

Offline killer-heels

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I agree that the club always meant to sign tchouameni AND numez during the last window. They missed out on the former and chose to keep their powder dry using the same logic they used for van dijk but miscalculated as to the State of our midfield, not realising the situation was so dire. There is on going speculation over beĺlingham and even valverde. I suspect the club hierarchy knows they fouled up badly and thye need to spend big in January and in the summer.

Even if both Valverde and Bellingham would want to come, we would do well to get one of them. Between them thats almost £200m in midfielders and just two of them.

Id back our team to get 5 players with that money.

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Will you please cease clogging up the thread trying to justify a pointless pov?
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Offline ThePoolMan

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Nah. Like I said earlier in the thread, Stevie's first goal at 18 was him dropping his shoulder twice, beating two players on skill and putting it in. Show me one goal from the dribbler Bellingham equal to that.

Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwkP73Ogry0

You would hope this sort of thing is muscle memory for a liverpool fan, anyway, there you go.

How many of his subsequent 185 goals were like that first one? It was admittedly a great goal but it was also uncharacteristic of most of his goals.

I raise u this clip where bellingham beat three defenders (and the goalkeeper)....and unlike Gerrard he did it from a standing start as opposed to being at speed when changing direction is more easy to wrong foot the defender.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ilySiTZDmYs

« Last Edit: October 2, 2022, 11:23:55 am by ThePoolMan »

Offline killer-heels

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How many of his subsequent 185 goals were like that first one? It was admittedly a great goal but it was also uncharacteristic of most of his goals.

I raise u this clip where bellingham beat three defenders (and the goalkeeper)....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ilySiTZDmYs



Bellingham only wishes he could pass and shoot the way Gerrard did.

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How many of his subsequent 185 goals were like that first one? It was admittedly a great goal but it was also uncharacteristic of most of his goals.

I raise u this clip where bellingham beat three defenders (and the goalkeeper)....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ilySiTZDmYs



You just said he couldn't beat his man on skill when his first goal ever for us was literally that. Watch any full game compilations from when he was a winger and there would be combinations of skill in going past players as well as power + pace. He showed his characteristics the way his managers needed him to.

Need to pay a little more attention to our own ex players before bigging up others.

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You just said he couldn't beat his man on skill when his first goal ever for us was literally that. Watch any full game compilations from when he was a winger and there would be combinations of skill in going past players as well as power + pace. He showed his characteristics the way his managers needed him to.

Need to pay a little more attention to our own ex players before bigging up others.

Bellingham has better close control but he doesn’t have the passing or explosiveness Stevie had. I mean Stevie was an absolute freak athletically, he was a fast as most wingers and stronger than a lot of CBS and Midfielders, he was a colossus at his

https://twitter.com/TopFootballShow/status/1536313930943016965

Racial stereotypes aside this is what Mikel had to say about Gerrard, ‘oyinbo means white.

Best we leave this discussion for another thread though.

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Bellingham has better close control but he doesn’t have the passing or explosiveness Stevie had. I mean Stevie was an absolute freak athletically, he was a fast as most wingers and stronger than a lot of CBS and Midfielders, he was a colossus at his

https://twitter.com/TopFootballShow/status/1536313930943016965

Racial stereotypes aside this is what Mikel had to say about Gerrard, ‘oyinbo means white.

Best we leave this discussion for another thread though.


For sure, which is why Bellingham comparisons imo fit a playmaker type far better than Gerrard due to Bellingham's control and style of play.

Offline ThePoolMan

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You just said he couldn't beat his man on skill when his first goal ever for us was literally that. Watch any full game compilations from when he was a winger and there would be combinations of skill in going past players as well as power + pace. He showed his characteristics the way his managers needed him to.

Need to pay a little more attention to our own ex players before bigging up others.

It was indeed a  great goal but how many goals like that did he ever score again in the rest of his career? He changed direction as a function of being at top speed against retreating defenders. This is quite different from the dribbling that bellingham does every single match which is usually at low speed and done purely out of having quicker feet than his opponent. When have u seen Gerrard do that typically ?

Bellingham is already definitely a better dribbler than Gerrard ever was in his whole career. It is no negative reflection to talk about gerrard's few weaknesses - it doesn't make him any less a great that he was.

Offline ThePoolMan

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For sure, which is why Bellingham comparisons imo fit a playmaker type far better than Gerrard due to Bellingham's control and style of play.


Bellingham is.more than a playmaker though- he is a box to box midfielder like Gerrard though he achieves this role in a different way altogether.

Offline ThePoolMan

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Bellingham has better close control but he doesn’t have the passing or explosiveness Stevie had. I mean Stevie was an absolute freak athletically, he was a fast as most wingers and stronger than a lot of CBS and Midfielders, he was a colossus at his

https://twitter.com/TopFootballShow/status/1536313930943016965

Racial stereotypes aside this is what Mikel had to say about Gerrard, ‘oyinbo means white.

Best we leave this discussion for another thread though.


I agree that gerrard's athleticism formed a greater part of his gifts compared to Bellingham. Gerrard had a lot of power- as in pace allied with strength and that marked everything that he did and made him special in that role as no  8. When his athleticism began to recede as he became older, his passing was still good enough for him to perform a good shift in a deeper role though he was no longer world class once he lost that power.

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I just had a conversation with my arsenal supporting friend and he agrees with the point I made, in the last 4 years without champions league football they have spent net just under £400mil compared to our £90mil with massive champions league revenue. Now they aren’t owned by an oil state, our manager has worked bloody miracles but our team is now the oldest in the league and lack of investment has caught up with us.

It's always going to catch up with you as Arsenal fans will remember only too well with Wenger.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

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So i didn't watch the match...

but i saw live commentary from a whatsapp group and it wasn't pretty reading.

Sounded like our issues have carried over beyond this rest period, so now we have some tough games incoming and not sure what to expect. However, the league seems a bit far fetched now so important thing is to secure CL progression and stay as close to the top as possible, hoping for fuckups above


We need to start playing well again and looking/feeling more comfortable on the pitch.
We are a bag of nerves at the moment and it is causing indecision and this self-fulfilling prophecy of always going behind has gone on too long

If there's nerves and confidence issues with the players (Klopp has mentioned fragile confidence after the last couple of games) then it suggests the need to go back to basics tactically and start grinding results out, rather than continuing to do the same things every game and conceding chances at will. That's what's chipping away at confidence. It's all very Jan-March 2021. 

We need to become tough to play against again.
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Offline Redric1970

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It's always going to catch up with you as Arsenal fans will remember only too well with Wenger.

True, this will see what our owners really are made of, although I already think we’ve fucked up majorly.

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True, this will see what our owners really are made of, although I already think we’ve fucked up majorly.

At the start of last season the fans started singing "the reds have got no money" which really was a light hearted way of saying invest in the fucking team.

Next time it won't be light hearted. I think we will have to spend though next year (Jan and in the summer) but it won't be from the position of strength that it should have been done.
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I have to say that I'm more worried about Van Dijk form than anything else.

For three / four seasons he was imperious and inspired the players around him to new heights that they probably didn't know they were capable of. Trent, Robbo and Matip were all given a massive confidence boost having the big man alongside them and it gave them more freedom to express themselves. However now the whole defence looks nervous when the ball comes in our half.

Hope that he can sort it out, whether it's a physical or mental thing, because we are sorely missing the confidence he brings to the side.

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I have to say that I'm more worried about Van Dijk form than anything else.

For three / four seasons he was imperious and inspired the players around him to new heights that they probably didn't know they were capable of. Trent, Robbo and Matip were all given a massive confidence boost having the big man alongside them and it gave them more freedom to express themselves. However now the whole defence looks nervous when the ball comes in our half.

Hope that he can sort it out, whether it's a physical or mental thing, because we are sorely missing the confidence he brings to the side.

Yeah, obviously we suffered defensively the season he was injured and the first half of the season prior to him signing. As long as he's been there he's assured and he's been pretty much ever present in the league and CL bar 20/21. We had that mad Benfica home game last season which made you realise how important he was because we fell apart defensively when he wasn't there. It's now like that with him there.

Van Dijk came out publicly calling for the club to strengthen the midfield at the start of the season, so it shows you he can see the problems himself. It's unusual for our players to do that.
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Offline Sheer Magnetism

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Bellingham only wishes he could pass and shoot the way Gerrard did.
He's just turned 19, teenage Gerrard couldn't pass and shoot the way Gerrard did either. I was going to comment on the squad but some of the Bellingham takes in this thread are bizarre. Gerrard played at right back and on the wing, that's great. I wouldn't want Bellingham to play in either of those positions if he comes here so who cares?

The fact is that Bellingham has a huge ceiling and we have no idea what kind of player he could become by 25 so there's no point in writing him off now or saying what he can or can't be. If it makes people feel better, compare him to Iniesta rather than Gerrard and tell me how good Iniesta was when he'd just turned 19.

Offline filopastry

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When it comes to investment though, the one area where we have been competitive is  in paying salaries, where I believe we are comfortably in the top 4 in wage bills, a lot of well paid players at the club aren't playing up to their salaries at present.

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Not scrolled through the 21 pages (too depressing to be honest), but was Diaz pushed in the box near the end and did we ever see a replay of it?

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Not scrolled through the 21 pages (too depressing to be honest), but was Diaz pushed in the box near the end and did we ever see a replay of it?

Henderson was also pushed in the back to cause him to loose sight of the ball after Alexander headed the cross away which led to their goal.

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Could have been worse, way worse if not for some good goal keeping.  Could have been 4-nil down after 30 odd minutes.  Form/confidence is concerning though.  The numbers from the start of the season aren't great either.

Still, seven games in, its early days.
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He's just turned 19, teenage Gerrard couldn't pass and shoot the way Gerrard did either.

Yeah he could. Go and watch his assist for Titi Camara at Arsenal for example.

All off the things I thought this thread might become I defo wasn't expecting to see some trying to play down Gerrard!

Offline Sheer Magnetism

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Regarding the squad, you could see this coming from two years away. We had the opportunity to revolve the squad from a position of strength, we didn't and now the team's been allowed to age out together. It happens quickly too, the way it did with Leeds in the mid-70's and us in the early 90's. Both teams looked far out in front and fell off almost overnight.

Look at the spine of the current team: Van Dijk (31), Matip (31), Robbo (28), Fabinho (28), Thiago (31), Hendo (32), Salah (30), Firmino (30 - and I wasn't going to put him in but he's top scorer so far). Someone said they think Klopp is copying City, I think it's closer to say he's copying Real, but this isn't La Liga and the team needs legs as well as experience.

You simply can't have a first team with that many veterans in a league like this, and unless the stats team can pull three or four top players out of the box we're going to have to spend on top players to be competitive, the way we did with Alisson, Van Dijk and Fabinho. It's what we should have been doing in the last few windows, moving older, fringe players on, getting the kids established and buying in top replacements where needed. It isn't even just about age, you need to have some element of change to keep things fresh or players get mentally tired.

And part of that is on Klopp, who's obviously worked wonders but who would have apparently also kept Gini and Mane if possible. He needs to be more ruthless and he needs to be willing to change the way he was when he first arrived. Now we're in a position where we need at least three big players across the defence and midfield and a right back capable of filling in for Trent. It's going to be a couple of big transfer windows and if we aren't in the CL next year it's going to mean spending more than we would have had to otherwise.