Topic: Miserable Liverpool fans

[MonsLibpool]

That's so true, but a truth that's lost on so many these days. It's not always people's own fault either, because we are conditioned to believe that only results matter in life these days. They forget that today's successes are built on learning from yesterday's failures.

The journey is where we learn. Without the journey and what it teaches us, there is no success. I remember people taking the piss when we lost to Madrid in Kiev. Bitters saying they'd rather not reach a final than lose it. Well I remember right after that game being 100% sure we'd learn from it and come right back and win it next time. The journey, the learning curve, led to eventual success, so the learning curve was success.

Is right. 2013/14 remains one of my best seasons because the emotional intensity of surpassing expectations week after week was incredible. I also loved every minute of last season's quadruple hype train.

[Dim Glas]

We were just as miserable in the 70s when we took everything before us, even Paisley wasn't above getting slated. As a fan base we were often accused of being spoilt with success.

Back then though you could only really vent in the pub after the match or in the letters page of the Saturday Pink. It's the internet that's accentuated it and took it on to a whole different level.

I think ‘spoilt’ has changed to entitlment now though. So it’s a different thing.

When you are the most successful club, then yes, as ridiculous as the moaning may seem, you sort of get where it comes from.

Now, we’re in an era where a very few short seasons ago we where barely managing to qualify for a CL spot, never mind win any trophies, with just a league cup to show for their efforts in a number of years.

So I think this is what winds people up more now about the whining whoppers.  Because there are many who seem to be barely enjoying this club and it’s players and wonderful, empathetic, unique manager, and when they draw a game, they treat it as the end of the world.

Also the other problem we have now that is very different, is of course the arrival of clubs like Man City and Chelsea, and their ability to through illicit money and sometimes plain cheating, to eleveate themselves to a level most clubs would have to work hard for with little room for error for years.

And these very same entitled fans don't see the issue - they hold these clubs (especially Man City of course) as to where they want Liverpool to be, and what they EXPECT Liverpool to be, not actually caring as to how Man City got there, and why their owners do what they do.

There’s jsut a generation of fans now who not only are entitled, but also out of touch with the emotions and roots of the sport and of this club especially, and that is not only sad, it's damning, and impossible to correct. It’ll just get worse.

[BigRedFeetBed]

I agree and unfortunately it seems like a lot of the same arguments are being had on different threads. I cant tell whether I am in the Transfer, Player, Injury, or Pre/Post Game Thread anymore. If it is like this now when we have been spoilt with an abundance of memories, world class players and trophy wins over the last few seasons, I daren't think about what it will be like when we do go through a properly rough patch, because this wont last forever.

Can you imagine being a MU fan at the moment..it's a joke of a club!

We cant compete with cheats without really becoming that ourselves and unfortunately I think a lot of the Twitterati believe we should just so they can win the latest player transfer/top trump battle on social media with rivals and in some cases their own fans, to the point where nothing will ever be good enough.

Its bad enough (although I dont really give a shit) that rival fans choose to jump on everything we do, but when it comes to our own fans jumping on each other, taking to social media to harass and berate our own players directly because of one poor game, and then the groups that feel it is ok to openly, in full view of everyone else, send threatening and sometimes downright nasty messages to players from other teams because they played their part in one of ours getting a red card just seems baffling to me! 

[Black Bull Nova]

Yeah, I get disappointed after a result like monday but an hour later I've shook it off.


We are so lucky to support this team and to have been entertained as much as we have for so many years (including before we were promoted), yes success is important and why we exist but the way it drags expectations up (and attracts wrong-uns) is the downside.


Take last year, out of the PL title race at christmas, one of 16 in the CL and no way favourites, the FA cup coming up where we assumed we would play kids and go out to someone like West Ham in the 4/5th round and the EFL where we still had Spurs/Arsenal and Chelsea to compete with and were not that bothered. Fast forward 5 months and we end up being disappointed, of course we were, but only because we had built up our expectations way beyond where they had been.


It's life, I really enjoyed it (except for Paris), I enjoyed Palace as entertainment. You just have to be philosophical and take the joy you get. After all, we could be Chesterfield, Rochdale, East Fire or, even worse, Everton.

[JRed]

I moan about the refs (Quite a lot) because they are shite

I may moan about results sometimes

But the number of Liverpool fans that seem to be getting NO enjoyment out of watching us play, our great manager, our great players and all the good stuff that's happening around the club is amazing to me.

What is wrong with people? It's like we're a midtable, possibly soon to be relegated club.

If you can't fucking enjoy things when they are this good then when can you?

I love going to the game anyway (Win, lose or draw) and I have the odd rant, but that's part of the de-stressing of life. Love the power and vitality and energy from our team and our club and it's an amazing time to be a Red.

And yet some people just literally moan about fucking everything. Sell them. They're shite. Look at what they said. Look at their body language. They are injured - bastards!!!!


Get a fucking grip. We won't be this good forever. Enjoy it while it lasts.

And when we aren't quite as good? Enjoy it all the more. Footy and going to the game and watching it with your mates is entertainment. Be entertained. Enjoy it. Have fun. Have a laugh.

Are you saying you like to have a rant but don’t like it when other people have a rant? Seems like.

Some people do take it too far although it’s absolutely fair enough to call out when some players have not performed well or done something stupid. I think what skews things a bit at the moment is we have such a great team but unlike any other great team in the history of the game, we are competing with despotic nation states. So people’s perceptions can get a bit distorted. On the one hand it’s fantastic what this team has achieved and they absolutely deserve to be cut some slack when things aren’t going so well, but then anything less than perfection likely means it’s impossible to win the title due to competing with the cheats, so people get pissed off and frustrated with this.

[Sheer Magnetism]

The attitudes of some saying season is over now already and the abuse towards Nunez was a new low.

Compared to when? Were you not around during the Moreno/Sturridge years?

[Dim Glas]

Are you saying you like to have a rant but don’t like it when other people have a rant? Seems like.

Some people do take it too far although it’s absolutely fair enough to call out when some players have not performed well or done something stupid. I think what skews things a bit at the moment is we have such a great team but unlike any other great team in the history of the game, we are competing with despotic nation states. So people’s perceptions can get a bit distorted. On the one hand it’s fantastic what this team has achieved and they absolutely deserve to be cut some slack when things aren’t going so well, but then anything less than perfection likely means it’s impossible to win the title due to competing with the cheats, so people get pissed off and frustrated with this.

these people need to realise their frustrations and anger is being aimed at the wrong things then. That’s what’s so infuriating to many about this. They get angry at LFC, the players, the owners, even Jürgen Klopp. When their anger and energy should be aimed at the PL for allowing sportswashers to come in, blatantly cheat, and ruin the league, and the (majority of the) press and media for having their heads firmly stuck up the backsides of the these teams and their players and manager.

[keyop]

Take last year, out of the PL title race at christmas, one of 16 in the CL and no way favourites, the FA cup coming up where we assumed we would play kids and go out to someone like West Ham in the 4/5th round and the EFL where we still had Spurs/Arsenal and Chelsea to compete with and were not that bothered.

Yep - this is why perspective is always needed. In August I never dreamed we'd be on for the quadruple in May, and it's worth remembering that on matchday 23 last season we were 9 points behind City with a game in hand, when many had long given up on the title. Matchday 26 we were only 3 points behind, having played the same number of games. Matchday 38 we came within a Villa upset of winning the title by 2 points.

Anything can happen across the season, and it's never over until it's mathematically impossible (and even then we cheer the lads to the last minute of the last game).

[JRed]

these people need to realise their frustrations and anger is being aimed at the wrong things then. That’s what’s so infuriating to many about this. They get angry at LFC, the players, the owners, even Jürgen Klopp. When their anger and energy should be aimed at the PL for allowing sportswashers to come in, blatantly cheat, and ruin the league, and the (majority of the) press and media for having their heads firmly stuck up the backsides of the these teams and their players and manager.

Very true, it should definitely be targeted at the PL and the sportswashing clubs. I still can’t understand why match going fans don’t protest or boycott when the sportswashers are playing.

[Lone Star Red]

Compared to when? Were you not around during the Moreno/Sturridge years?

And Karius got death threats from Liverpool fans after the final in Kiev.

[Dim Glas]

Very true, it should definitely be targeted at the PL and the sportswashing clubs. I still can’t understand why match going fans don’t protest or boycott when the sportswashers are playing.

I don’t get it either. Last year when Crystal Palace fans to their immense credit, had that massive banner protesting Newcastle being bought by Saudi Arabia, I hoped/thought it’d become a regular thing with all clubs. It’s a pity it didn’t happen. Sure you can say ‘what would change’. But at least put it out there fo the world to see. TV cameras can’t avoid it, something simialr happened in a Germany nations league (I think) match in Mönchengladbach, the Gladbach fans managed to get a big banner up right in the eyeline of the cameras on the half way line, protesting the world cup, so it was front and centre all game.

[Mister Flip Flop]

I don't think people are miserable but they are fed up. Fed up with competing against cheats and the powers that be doing nothing about it in fact actively encouraging it. Fed up with a standard of refereeing that can only logically be described as corrupt. Fed up with over priced tickets, over priced matchday food and over priced official merchandise etc.. Fed up with too much football (yes it means our players get injured more than most). Fed up with the absolute bullshit Sky/BT etc.. roll out for clicks and turn us all into nothing more than performing lemmings for clicks. Fed up with agents getting paid millions for doing the square root of fuck all whilst grass roots clubs go bust.

But most of all and maybe im just old and out of touch but fed up with players getting paid more in a week than many fans do in 20 years of work in the middle of a cost of living crisis or at any stage to be honest. I don't begrudge the players earning what they can i'd do the same if i was in their shoes but it's frankly ridiculous when it's unaffordable to take my two girls and myself to a match.

[Big Bamber]

Leave other fans at it. You do you.

[Barneylfc∗]

I don’t get it either. Last year when Crystal Palace fans to their immense credit, had that massive banner protesting Newcastle being bought by Saudi Arabia, I hoped/thought it’d become a regular thing with all clubs. It’s a pity it didn’t happen. Sure you can say ‘what would change’. But at least put it out there fo the world to see. TV cameras can’t avoid it, something simialr happened in a Germany nations league (I think) match in Mönchengladbach, the Gladbach fans managed to get a big banner up right in the eyeline of the cameras on the half way line, protesting the world cup, so it was front and centre all game.

The majority of people don't care about sportswashing and think Abu Dhabi and Saudi Arabia can be separated from Man City and Newcastle. They don't care about the treatment of people in these countries. All they care about is whether FSG are putting their hand in their pocket.

[JRed]

The majority of people don't care about sportswashing and think Abu Dhabi and Saudi Arabia can be separated from Man City and Newcastle. They don't care about the treatment of people in these countries. All they care about is whether FSG are putting their hand in their pocket.

It’s a difficult one isn’t it. As fans we have to find a balance between wanting the owners to invest in the team, which most people believe they could do more of, and trying to compete with sovereign states, which would clearly be ridiculous.

[Black Bull Nova]

I don't think people are miserable but they are fed up. Fed up with competing against cheats and the powers that be doing nothing about it in fact actively encouraging it. Fed up with a standard of refereeing that can only logically be described as corrupt. Fed up with over priced tickets, over priced matchday food and over priced official merchandise etc.. Fed up with too much football (yes it means our players get injured more than most). Fed up with the absolute bullshit Sky/BT etc.. roll out for clicks and turn us all into nothing more than performing lemmings for clicks. Fed up with agents getting paid millions for doing the square root of fuck all whilst grass roots clubs go bust.

But most of all and maybe im just old and out of touch but fed up with players getting paid more in a week than many fans do in 20 years of work in the middle of a cost of living crisis or at any stage to be honest. I don't begrudge the players earning what they can i'd do the same if i was in their shoes but it's frankly ridiculous when it's unaffordable to take my two girls and myself to a match.

Yup, totally, that said, this is another sub group of fans rather than the post match moaners

[Andy @ Allerton!]

It’s a difficult one isn’t it. As fans we have to find a balance between wanting the owners to invest in the team, which most people believe they could do more of, and trying to compete with sovereign states, which would clearly be ridiculous.

I never wanted them to 'invest more'

I wanted them to have a long term project, improve the ground and make it bigger, open up all sorts of lines of business and make us a self-sustaining entity that can support itself without any outside help.

They achieved just that. We are a very well run club, with good owners that invest in the club itself. I couldn't be happier. Just look at where we were with those two fucking cowboys and how close we came to going out of business.

Done a great job and made most of us supporters 'experts' in business (ha ha)

On top of making us well run and self-sustaining, we seem to be picking the right people to make the right decisions for the right reasons at the right time.

That won't always be the way, but it's a very good base to rebuild from if the wheel fall off in the future (As they always will at some point)

[Dim Glas]

The majority of people don't care about sportswashing and think Abu Dhabi and Saudi Arabia can be separated from Man City and Newcastle. They don't care about the treatment of people in these countries. All they care about is whether FSG are putting their hand in their pocket.

absolutely, out of sight, out of mind.

Plenty of these twitter whoppers (and non Twitter whoppers), would be absolutely ecstatic if Liverpool get bought by sportswashers in the same way as loads of other teams’ fans would too of course. These other clubs’ fans look at Newcastle enviously.

[Dim Glas]

It’s a difficult one isn’t it. As fans we have to find a balance between wanting the owners to invest in the team, which most people believe they could do more of, and trying to compete with sovereign states, which would clearly be ridiculous.

I could’t care less to be honest. The club is being ran in a way it can sustain itself, with no nasty surprises if the owners leave. They spend plenty of the money the club earns on new players and their ridiculous wages.

Winning the CL and the league recently basically put me very much ‘at ease’ for want of a better way of descrbing it, knowing we’d got over that hurdle with the greatest manager AND more importantly, a wonderful man, leading us to it against a backdrop of financially doped teams. Now, if I want, I can walk away from what the sport has become with it’s sportswashing, with it’s ridiculous and sickening wages, and with it’s ability to price fans out of the game and detach clubs from their roots, and be quite able to do so.

[JRed]

I never wanted them to 'invest more'

I wanted them to have a long term project, improve the ground and make it bigger, open up all sorts of lines of business and make us a self-sustaining entity that can support itself without any outside help.

They achieved just that. We are a very well run club, with good owners that invest in the club itself. I couldn't be happier. Just look at where we were with those two fucking cowboys and how close we came to going out of business.

Done a great job and made most of us supporters 'experts' in business (ha ha)

On top of making us well run and self-sustaining, we seem to be picking the right people to make the right decisions for the right reasons at the right time.

That won't always be the way, but it's a very good base to rebuild from if the wheel fall off in the future (As they always will at some point)

All very true.
It’s just such a shame it has all happened at a time when the game is being destroyed by the cheating regimes. If we were competing with proper clubs it would be a lot easier to accept when we don’t win. However, when you get cheated out of something it’s a lot harder to take. Which is what’s happening nowadays.
All in all tho , no one can deny FSG are doing a good job. Maybe the test comes when Jürgen leaves.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

All very true.
It’s just such a shame it has all happened at a time when the game is being destroyed by the cheating regimes. If we were competing with proper clubs it would be a lot easier to accept when we don’t win. However, when you get cheated out of something it’s a lot harder to take. Which is what’s happening nowadays.
All in all tho , no one can deny FSG are doing a good job. Maybe the test comes when Jürgen leaves.

See that's not my mindset at all.

When I go to the game, I meet up with my mates and have a laugh, get to the ground and see my mates that sit around me (A different bunch) and then meet my mates later.

We might moan about the referee or be a bit unhappy with the result and the odd player might get mentioned (but usually fairly) and then we go out and enjoy ourselves.

Most of the time when I watch us play aways, I'll go to the alehouse with a few of my mates and a similar scenerio will unfold.

A few days later on I'll re-watch and will almost always find out I missed stuff or that things weren't quite as I remembered, but the whole experience each time is positive and fun.

I come on here and whine about the refs, but I don't often (ever?) moan about Manchester City or other clubs doing better than us - like Chelsea, like Newcastle now and, of course, Manchester City because I'm focused on us. Manchester United are/were a different story simply because, along with Everton, they are our fiercest rivals. The other clubs - meh - if they win, they win. If they buy the league, they buy the league.

If we play well and are run well and we're managed well then that's all about us. All we can do is what we can do as a club. As fans, all we can do is support our club - maybe moan about our actual rivals and call the refs a load of nasty names because they annoy everyone, don't they?


I think maybe years ago (And possibly even on here) that I'd have a massive cob on for days if we lost, but you can't keep doing that to yourself. Since I've tried to actually enjoy it, it been much better. It's an entertainment - it's something we're supposed to enjoy - let other clubs do what they want (Except Manchester United, they can fuck right off)

[Romford_Red]

This belongs here...

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/LMVo1wzuPGk" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/LMVo1wzuPGk</a>

[Andy @ Allerton!]

This belongs here...

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/LMVo1wzuPGk" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/LMVo1wzuPGk</a>

[Hazell]

Timely thread and a lot of excellent posts. Don't know if I can add much but it's one thing having a moan about a performance or result - it happens and if we play badly, we play badly - it's another when it's incessant or when it's the end of the world, despite everything that's happened since Klopp arrived. It feels like it's been getting worse over a few years as well. But it's been good to read a lot of the posts in this thread, it makes me happy that some of our fans are enjoying us

And I'm not saying that I wanted us to drop points this season but lows are part of the game and one of main things about going through adversity is the highs feel so much better and special, we should know that more than most. The Champions League win 2019 in particular was one of the most wonderful moments I can remember, precisely because of what happened with Hicks and Gillet, the struggle for the few years after they left and the 2018 final.

[The G in Gerrard]

Compared to when? Were you not around during the Moreno/Sturridge years?

Considering it was second game of the season and people were throwing their toys out of the pram. It was pretty pathetic to be honest.

Slagging off Nunez etc.

[ThoroughlyMediocre]

Definitely understand the frustrations coming from those feeling we're not in a fair fight. We have owners (rightly IMO) focused on sustainability, whereas others have created an illusion of sustainability that is clearly false, yet has been accepted as fact by the powers-that-be.

In addition, I think there's a feeling of desperation given the squad is largely in their prime and Klopp's time as manager has to end at some point. Certainly has led to the overreactions we've seen after the two draws.

Will say some people need to get a grip. This team has brought us a tremendous amount of enjoyment over the past few years, and a poor start shouldn't overshadow that. Much of the criticism of players has been well over-the-top, particularly after Palace where the performance was much improved from Fulham.

[damomad]

It just feels as a football fan I'm more powerless than ever.

No one has a god given right to win anything but whilst we have been exceptionally brilliant, at the same time we've been exceptionally unlucky.

The title win we waited for for 30 years but behind closed doors, the 2 seasons where we finished 2nd with the highest points total ever (for a runner up) behind a club that has boundless pits of money, VVD's injury and the lack of red card which ruined a whole season, the sickening events outside the stadium in Saint Denis (which unsettled the team and the supporters inside).

Each season there has been an event either due to cheating oil money, refs or events outside of football that has stopped us from having the real success that this team deserves. And with each draw (or defeat) it just feels like we aren't realising our full potential, and as players age, I worry we may be missing the boat on a exceptionally golden era.

It's still the most successful the club has been in my lifetime and I'll always be grateful but let's not deny there has been plenty to moan about in the past few seasons.

[Dr Stu-Pid]

Just to reiterate what others have said, here are the top 10 points finishes in the history of the English top division in the modern era (post-1960).  This includes adjusting for 2 points for a win and 42 game seasons, so these are like for like 38 game totals:

Year	38G Pts	Champions	Position
2017–18	100	Man City	1st
2019–20	99	Liverpool	1st
2018–19	98	Man City	1st
2018–19	97	Liverpool	2nd
2004–05	95	Chelsea	1st
2016–17	93	Chelsea	1st
2021–22	93	Man City	1st
2021–22	92	Liverpool	2nd
1999–00	91	Man United	1st
2005–06	91	Chelsea	1st

Last season was the 3rd highest in the history of LFC (only beaten by previous Klopp seasons), and the 8th highest in history.  And yet still people will moan about dropped points against Brentford, Brighton, and Leicester and talk about how we should have done better.

If we put up another 90+ point season then we'll at worst equal the 12th highest points total of all time, but again if it only lead to a 2nd place finish it will be Fulham and Palace (plus a couple of others) to take the place of the teams above.

But, but, but, they will say, the paradigm has shifted.  There's no point finishing with 90+ points if it only finishes second and we need to be aiming for 95 points.  Maybe I could understand that attitude if it were a team like Spurs that were finishing above us, another team that have a sustainable model and play to the rules.  But instead it is only a proven cheating club that can finish above us and put up these crazy high points totals. How can you compete with cheats without cheating yourselves?  Should Usain Bolt have taken drugs to run faster than 9.58 seconds if someone would have come along and cheated to run 9.48 seconds?

If we finish with 90+ points this season and finish 2nd then please be angry, but be angry with Man City, with the PL, with PGMOL, and with UEFA. DO NOT be angry with Liverpool players, Klopp, our tactics, or FSG.  Those should all be celebrated for putting up elite level play week in and week out across 5 seasons.

For me?  We've won everything that there is to win over the last 5 years.  These players owe me nothing.  Klopp owes me nothing.  FSG owe me nothing.  Everything from here is gravy.

[Hazell]

Nice post mate. It is ridiculous that we've got two of the highest points totals in English history but finished 2nd both times, due to cheats. Klopp's created one of the best sides this country's ever seen but it won't get the trophies it deserves because of it.

[keyop]

Just to reiterate what others have said, here are the top 10 points finishes in the history of the English top division in the modern era (post-1960).  This includes adjusting for 2 points for a win and 42 game seasons, so these are like for like 38 game totals:

Year	38G Pts	Champions	Position
2017–18	100	Man City	1st
2019–20	99	Liverpool	1st
2018–19	98	Man City	1st
2018–19	97	Liverpool	2nd
2004–05	95	Chelsea	1st
2016–17	93	Chelsea	1st
2021–22	93	Man City	1st
2021–22	92	Liverpool	2nd
1999–00	91	Man United	1st
2005–06	91	Chelsea	1st

Last season was the 3rd highest in the history of LFC (only beaten by previous Klopp seasons), and the 8th highest in history.  And yet still people will moan about dropped points against Brentford, Brighton, and Leicester and talk about how we should have done better.

If we put up another 90+ point season then we'll at worst equal the 12th highest points total of all time, but again if it only lead to a 2nd place finish it will be Fulham and Palace (plus a couple of others) to take the place of the teams above.

But, but, but, they will say, the paradigm has shifted.  There's no point finishing with 90+ points if it only finishes second and we need to be aiming for 95 points.  Maybe I could understand that attitude if it were a team like Spurs that were finishing above us, another team that have a sustainable model and play to the rules.  But instead it is only a proven cheating club that can finish above us and put up these crazy high points totals. How can you compete with cheats without cheating yourselves?  Should Usain Bolt have taken drugs to run faster than 9.58 seconds if someone would have come along and cheated to run 9.48 seconds?

If we finish with 90+ points this season and finish 2nd then please be angry, but be angry with Man City, with the PL, with PGMOL, and with UEFA. DO NOT be angry with Liverpool players, Klopp, our tactics, or FSG.  Those should all be celebrated for putting up elite level play week in and week out across 5 seasons.

For me?  We've won everything that there is to win over the last 5 years.  These players owe me nothing.  Klopp owes me nothing.  FSG owe me nothing.  Everything from here is gravy.

Amen to that. Great post.

It says it all about how the landscape has changed that 6 of those top 10 points totals were from the two most financially doped clubs in the league. 3 of them were set by us, and Utd's was 22 years ago. We've been playing uphill and against the wind for years, which makes our success even sweeter.

[Dench57]

I think there's a feeling of desperation given the squad is largely in their prime and Klopp's time as manager has to end at some point.

This is where I've been at for a while.

I'm 32 and I really believe Klopp's Liverpool is likely the best one I see in my lifetime. Not just because he will leave, but also I think the future belongs to the oil states. I don't see how we can be much better than we have over the last 3 or 4 years.

A lot of people here have said they're happy with the 1 league title and CL, if that's what we end on when he leaves.  There's a part of me that will always think  how close Jurgen's reds came to immortality. "Deserve" is a dodgy word in football, but it does feel like they deserve more.

With that said, I'm still enjoying every minute of it, and know how incredibly privileged we are as Liverpool fans to have witnessed the last 6 years and hopefully a few more years to come.

[bird_lfc]

Yeah nice post mate.

We have been spoilt for sure. The best manager, some of the best owners about (who would be appreciated a hell of a lot more if the oil clubs didn’t exist) and a team in their prime playing for the most part good football

I think it’s largely down to how we literally have to be perfect in order to stand a chance of winning anything, and we know what these lads are capable of , but it’s easy to forget as good as they are they are human.

Such fine margins, a slow start like this ‘back in yhe day’ would of been okay, but with the likes of city about we are always going to be playing catch up. Two massive points tally’s and finish 2nd will do that to you.

Last season was deemed a failure by some yet we won 2 domestic cups, 2nd place and a champions league final. Tells you all we need to know about the lofty expectations

[Dougle]

Just to reiterate what others have said, here are the top 10 points finishes in the history of the English top division in the modern era (post-1960).  This includes adjusting for 2 points for a win and 42 game seasons, so these are like for like 38 game totals:

Year	38G Pts	Champions	Position
2017–18	100	Man City	1st
2019–20	99	Liverpool	1st
2018–19	98	Man City	1st
2018–19	97	Liverpool	2nd
2004–05	95	Chelsea	1st
2016–17	93	Chelsea	1st
2021–22	93	Man City	1st
2021–22	92	Liverpool	2nd
1999–00	91	Man United	1st
2005–06	91	Chelsea	1st

Last season was the 3rd highest in the history of LFC (only beaten by previous Klopp seasons), and the 8th highest in history.  And yet still people will moan about dropped points against Brentford, Brighton, and Leicester and talk about how we should have done better.

If we put up another 90+ point season then we'll at worst equal the 12th highest points total of all time, but again if it only lead to a 2nd place finish it will be Fulham and Palace (plus a couple of others) to take the place of the teams above.

But, but, but, they will say, the paradigm has shifted.  There's no point finishing with 90+ points if it only finishes second and we need to be aiming for 95 points.  Maybe I could understand that attitude if it were a team like Spurs that were finishing above us, another team that have a sustainable model and play to the rules.  But instead it is only a proven cheating club that can finish above us and put up these crazy high points totals. How can you compete with cheats without cheating yourselves?  Should Usain Bolt have taken drugs to run faster than 9.58 seconds if someone would have come along and cheated to run 9.48 seconds?

If we finish with 90+ points this season and finish 2nd then please be angry, but be angry with Man City, with the PL, with PGMOL, and with UEFA. DO NOT be angry with Liverpool players, Klopp, our tactics, or FSG.  Those should all be celebrated for putting up elite level play week in and week out across 5 seasons.

For me?  We've won everything that there is to win over the last 5 years.  These players owe me nothing.  Klopp owes me nothing.  FSG owe me nothing.  Everything from here is gravy.

Amen to that.

[Rush 82]

We've lost 3 league titles in the last 8 seasons by a grand total of 4 points. Which is contributing to the mood

and there's very little we could do about that.
All of those dropped points / points gained by City were contributed to by the most incredible luck we've seen for them - literally inches on the goal line, worldie kicks from 30 yards out (aeroplane head), inexplicable handballs not awarded, etc.
There is literally nothing you can do about that.

It's genuinely not reasonable to expect a perfect winning record in any sport.

[Rush 82]

I think much of it is down to modern society and also a little bit of human nature thrown in.

These days, so many people are not happy unless absolutely everything goes their way. That often extends to how they 'support' their football club. The ups and downs become intolerable. Only the ups become acceptable. The downs, a disaster. This is why people write entire seasons off after one or two games. It's bipolar living, and it must be draining.

Few people today seem willing or able to enjoy the moment too. They film their lives and watch it back later. There is so little connection with the moment anymore. How can you enjoy the moment when you are too busy filming it then bitching about the bits that don't fall in your lap later?

We basically just live in a weird, screwed up world. Look at Abu Dhabi 'fans'. They are being gifted virtually everything by a sportswasher, yet they must be the most miserable, touchy, cryarsing bunch of whingers in the league. They clearly had more fun and enjoyed it more when they were yo-yoing up and down the divisions, being self-deprecating and throwing inflatable bananas about.

They obviously don't enjoy it, and we also don't enjoy being cheated out of titles by their despicable ownership.

We, as Liverpool fans, also see another aspect of human nature at play. Of course, we all aspire to something. As fans we want a great, successful team. Now that's a bit like aspiring to have the life partner we dream of. That's great, and that aspiration drives you and gives you purpose. Thing is, if you are lucky enough to get there, you then have to accept and cope with the fear of it all being taken away from you again.

You think life will be perfect when you finally have that partner on your arm, but once they are finally there with you, you suddenly fear losing them. There are no unconditional assurances in life, yet you desperately want and need them to protect what you now have.

Success seems blissful from afar, but it's a high maintenance partner when you have it, especially when it's real rather than purchased. The fear of losing it is gnawing and constant. Any sign of decline can feel magnified and disastrous.

To feel secure we need a nuclear option that obliterates all competition so we get an easy ride. Anything less shreds the nerves. Anything less than perfection cannot be tolerated, and as perfection is impossible, misery ensues.

Abu Dhabi have been gifted every conceivable advantage, yet even they can't be perfect. So how can we be so by doing it clean? We can't, so we have to accept imperfect, but a lot aren't willing to do so these days.

It's odd that we live in an age where so many don't know how to live in the moment and enjoy the moment. Yet the media and punditry encourages us all to then completely over analyse even the smallest of things. Titles are declared won or lost after two games. It was even asked "where does Klopp go from here?" after we lost a pre-season warm-up game 4-0.

The game has been turned into a circus. In many respects that mirrors the insane world we currently live in.

Few seem able to enjoy anything anymore. Even when we won two trophies last season we were slated for enjoying it simply because lost out on another two. Even when we do enjoy it it's called being unbearable anyway.

The only brief enjoyment Abu Dhabi apologists seem to get from their trophy purchases seem to be bantz related. Other than that, they seem utterly miserable and bitter.

What a world...

Deserves pinning this.
What a privilege to be surrounded by people like yourself able to express a zeitgeist in a most erudite manner.

Thank you
(Don't be shocked if a google search turns up your words in other places  )

[Elzar]

It's a great point this. Regarding the City fans, they only cling on to the rivalry with us because they'd have fuck all without it. Just a team that would be a massive failure if they didn't win the league. As it is, they get to compete with another team every season, and can create this rivalry with another teams fans as a result.

Celebrating something that is an easy, expected win, is nowhere near as fun as celebrating a close well competed competition. Think of the celebration at full time of a 2-1 win compared to a 4-0 win. Yes the 4-0 is enjoyable along the way, but the 2-1 is relief and excitement at that final whistle.

That then flips for us, losing something so marginally to a team that has put themselves in the position to just walk the league every season is fucking annoying and makes fans over think every single point dropped, or decision made by the club. Then of course you don't just have the pub/work place "banter" anymore - people now read social media constantly and listen to pundits trying to be hilarious instead of analysing dropped points.

[FlashingBlade]

What was the saying..' Misery loves a friend'...should be changed to Misery loves social media...especially RAWK'

[Rush 82]

Yeah remember that - went to the parade and had a brilliant day with my mates, applauded the team on their success of winning both domestic cups and had a great night out afterwards

If you can't enjoy that or think that fans applauding their team is 'embarrasing' then you are one bad fucking bellend - why even watch footy if you can't even enjoy success

Some right knobends around these days. As I said in the OP - enjoy it because it won't last - if I go to the game or watch it in the alehouse then I'm lucky I suppose because the only 'Bantz' is off Evertonians anyway (Who mostly are proper footy fans and very decent - well the ones I know anyway)

the parade was absolutely fantastic - my youngest lass and I watched the entire thing live on YouTube (cast onto the TV in the lounge) and enjoyed every moment - turned the soundbar up LOUD so it felt as if we were right there in amongst the crowd. Had our food and drinks in the lounge for the entire period that it was on and just revelled in the atmosphere even though we weren't actually there.

[LuverlyRita]

Yeah remember that - went to the parade and had a brilliant day with my mates, applauded the team on their success of winning both domestic cups and had a great night out afterwards

Got over the Paris loss faster than I have any other final defeat because the most important thing that happened that night was nobody died. As the horror show of the fan organisation became clear, the result suddenly didn't seem important. Then came THAT parade - an unbelievably uplifting experience that put a smile back on the faces of the players, the management team and fans.
If we'd never been in contention for the CL and Premier League, everyone would have expected us to celebrate. The fact that criticism followed is a combination of jealousy from other fans but also the slightly weird mindset of the football fan. When you score a 96th minute equalizer you're happy. When you concede a 96th minute equalizer you're gutted. But the result is the same! I guess it's the same issue - expectation. If you think you're about to lose and don't, it's good. If you think you're about to win and don't, it's bad. Most fans would have been ecstatic with one trophy and we should be proud of the boys for winning two and competing so well in another two.

[Pistolero]

I think much of it is down to modern society and also a little bit of human nature thrown in.

These days, so many people are not happy unless absolutely everything goes their way. That often extends to how they 'support' their football club. The ups and downs become intolerable. Only the ups become acceptable. The downs, a disaster. This is why people write entire seasons off after one or two games. It's bipolar living, and it must be draining.

Few people today seem willing or able to enjoy the moment too. They film their lives and watch it back later. There is so little connection with the moment anymore. How can you enjoy the moment when you are too busy filming it then bitching about the bits that don't fall in your lap later?

We basically just live in a weird, screwed up world. Look at Abu Dhabi 'fans'. They are being gifted virtually everything by a sportswasher, yet they must be the most miserable, touchy, cryarsing bunch of whingers in the league. They clearly had more fun and enjoyed it more when they were yo-yoing up and down the divisions, being self-deprecating and throwing inflatable bananas about.

They obviously don't enjoy it, and we also don't enjoy being cheated out of titles by their despicable ownership.

We, as Liverpool fans, also see another aspect of human nature at play. Of course, we all aspire to something. As fans we want a great, successful team. Now that's a bit like aspiring to have the life partner we dream of. That's great, and that aspiration drives you and gives you purpose. Thing is, if you are lucky enough to get there, you then have to accept and cope with the fear of it all being taken away from you again.

You think life will be perfect when you finally have that partner on your arm, but once they are finally there with you, you suddenly fear losing them. There are no unconditional assurances in life, yet you desperately want and need them to protect what you now have.

Success seems blissful from afar, but it's a high maintenance partner when you have it, especially when it's real rather than purchased. The fear of losing it is gnawing and constant. Any sign of decline can feel magnified and disastrous.

To feel secure we need a nuclear option that obliterates all competition so we get an easy ride. Anything less shreds the nerves. Anything less than perfection cannot be tolerated, and as perfection is impossible, misery ensues.

Abu Dhabi have been gifted every conceivable advantage, yet even they can't be perfect. So how can we be so by doing it clean? We can't, so we have to accept imperfect, but a lot aren't willing to do so these days.

It's odd that we live in an age where so many don't know how to live in the moment and enjoy the moment. Yet the media and punditry encourages us all to then completely over analyse even the smallest of things. Titles are declared won or lost after two games. It was even asked "where does Klopp go from here?" after we lost a pre-season warm-up game 4-0.

The game has been turned into a circus. In many respects that mirrors the insane world we currently live in.

Few seem able to enjoy anything anymore. Even when we won two trophies last season we were slated for enjoying it simply because lost out on another two. Even when we do enjoy it it's called being unbearable anyway.

The only brief enjoyment Abu Dhabi apologists seem to get from their trophy purchases seem to be bantz related. Other than that, they seem utterly miserable and bitter.

What a world...

Wise words as always from SoS........great post mate