Topic: India - deteriorating?

[classycarra]

https://twitter.com/sunny_hundal/status/1571927657050415104
decent exploration of some of the events here, from a journalist who's followed events since the early stages at the end of August

there's just fuck loads of young men out there clearly with fuck all going on in their lives, and no apparent responsibilities, who think fundamentalism and sectarianism is a good option.

that's a bad thing in any community, but throw in religious and political differences and i'm pessimistic about prospects of this staying as 'calm' as it is for much longer. have to hope this doesn't simultaneously flare up further discontent in other uk cities and towns too.

[RainbowFlick]

https://twitter.com/ainajkhan/status/1571636803852967939?s=20&t=UpHwSNtxUaF6uW2kMwiSdQ

the video of the two men and helmet man shouting at the reporter is very symbolic of what is going on at the moment. just a lot of angry misinformed voices spreading panics and misinformation. nasty people.

[Bullet500]

https://twitter.com/ainajkhan/status/1571636803852967939?s=20&t=UpHwSNtxUaF6uW2kMwiSdQ

the video of the two men and helmet man shouting at the reporter is very symbolic of what is going on at the moment. just a lot of angry misinformed voices spreading panics and misinformation. nasty people.

"Jai Shri Ram" is technically the same as "Allahu-Akbar".

You can say both phrases humbly without any problem. Say them with bravado to showoff. Shout to provoke. Or, use them as a war cry during violence.

[west_london_red]

Apparently there was a group of 200 Muslims gathering outside a mandir tonight in Birmingham.

Tomorrow there will probably be 200 Hindus outside a mosque in Wembley or somewhere no doubt.

And the cycle continues…

[Nobby Reserve]

Apparently there was a group of 200 Muslims gathering outside a mandir tonight in Birmingham.

Tomorrow there will probably be 200 Hindus outside a mosque in Wembley or somewhere no doubt.

And the cycle continues…

Gather them all in a huge football stadium, put a big pile of weapons in the centre-circle, and let them go at each other. If they think they're so fucking hard.

I'm sure Sky would buy the TV rights.

Could use the old Commonwealth Games stadium in Manchester; it's usually empty or half-empty.

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

Apparently there was a group of 200 Muslims gathering outside a mandir tonight in Birmingham.

Tomorrow there will probably be 200 Hindus outside a mosque in Wembley or somewhere no doubt.

And the cycle continues…

Boys who would be dead of starvation on the side of a street in a couple of weeks in their beloved India or Pakistan if they had to make their own way up there in life, no safety net, no protection, nothing that even the UK's creaking system provides. There's a reason loads of major companies globally have top execs from that region these days, you can make it up there on merit the rest of the world is a piece of piss.

These c*nts go the other way instead and take the elevator down, what a shitshow.

As Nobby said, set a place for all those who want the aggro to go at each other and let them kill themselves. Not one of these fannies will turn up, always in groups holding hands and picking on easy targets.

 

[Bullet500]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZI04-3vwC0 - I Was Put Up ‘For Sale' as a Muslim Woman

[Bullet500]

Two things happened recently.

First, an anti-establishment online portal has been caught fabricating evidence to back up one particular story of theirs. https://restofworld.org/2022/the-wire-vs-meta-india/

Second,

In India, New Wave of Trauma as 11 Convicted of Rape and Murder Walk Free: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/20/world/asia/india-rape-muslim-hindu.html

Apparently this was okayed by the Central govt. https://theprint.in/opinion/to-the-point/bilkis-bano-rapists-release-isnt-just-hindu-muslim-issue-bjp-leaders-telling-nobodys-safe/1174677/

They were released for 'good behaviour'. https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/bilkis-bano-case-during-parole-convict-bhatt-was-booked-for-outraging-modesty-442845

[ScouserAtHeart]

BJP winning 4 of the 6 by-elections it contested, and coming way closer in a 5th one than I expected.

They aren't going away soon looks like

[west_london_red]

BJP winning 4 of the 6 by-elections it contested, and coming way closer in a 5th one than I expected.

They aren't going away soon looks like

Was anyone expecting them to? They have a very friendly media and very weak opposition in most states so they are there for the foreseeable unfortunately.

[Bullet500]

The Haryana assembly seat would have been INC's. Kuldeep Bishnoi joined BJP only recently. But it's a pattern. BJP is quick to sport infighting in other parties and recruit with money.

[ScouserAtHeart]

Was anyone expecting them to? They have a very friendly media and very weak opposition in most states so they are there for the foreseeable unfortunately.

I thought they'd lose in Bihar to be honest. It was basically 3 parties against one

[Bullet500]

You can Google and read more about him. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sambhaji_Bhide

Rishi Sunak's mother-in-law touched his feet in reverence recently.

[afc tukrish]

You can Google and read more about him. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sambhaji_Bhide

Rishi Sunak's mother-in-law touched his feet in reverence recently.

Did she touch his Hi Risk Anus?

[Bullet500]

Good to see that western universities are recognising this apartheid. https://theprint.in/the-fineprint/more-dalit-students-going-to-oxfords-harvards-west-now-gets-the-caste-divide/1149148/

[west_london_red]

BJP have held Gujrat, zero surprise there obviously (Modi’s home state for anyone not familiar).

BJP have lost Himachel, which was as expected as the state has flipped at the last 9 elections apparently.

[Bullet500]

Horrible op-ed in WSJ. https://www.wsj.com/articles/brown-university-discriminates-against-south-asians-caste-india-affirmative-action-britain-census-court-11671634272

> Brown University Discriminates Against South Asians: Its prohibition of ‘caste oppression’ creates a new offense of which only one ethnic group can be guilty.

[So… Howard Philips]

Horrible op-ed in WSJ. https://www.wsj.com/articles/brown-university-discriminates-against-south-asians-caste-india-affirmative-action-britain-census-court-11671634272

> Brown University Discriminates Against South Asians: Its prohibition of ‘caste oppression’ creates a new offense of which only one ethnic group can be guilty.

Can’t read the op-ed but can you explain why the caste system isn’t a form of institutional oppression?

A genuine question as I know very little about how relevant the caste system is these days.

[west_london_red]

Horrible op-ed in WSJ. https://www.wsj.com/articles/brown-university-discriminates-against-south-asians-caste-india-affirmative-action-britain-census-court-11671634272

> Brown University Discriminates Against South Asians: Its prohibition of ‘caste oppression’ creates a new offense of which only one ethnic group can be guilty.

Mind of inevitable with Asians unfortunately.

I remember when I was at university, the one I went to had very few Asians to begin with so the few of us that there were all stuck together regardless of whether we were Indian or Pakistani, or Sikh or Hindu or Muslim everyone got along. Unfortunately as the numbers of Asians grew in the following year groups you started seeing the divisions appear and you ended up with a Sikh Punjabi clique, a Hindu Gujarati clique and a Muslim Pakistani clique and then it’s started to get ugly with the occasional fight breaking out, and this is story is just an extension of that I suspect. Once we reach a critical number we start dividing and discriminating. It’s what we do 

[west_london_red]

Can’t read the op-ed but can you explain why the caste system isn’t a form of institutional oppression?

A genuine question as I know very little about how relevant the caste system is these days.

Here’s another article on the same story:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/12/07/us/brown-university-caste-protections-cec/index.html

As for how relevant the caste system is, it’s still very relevant but definitely less than it was in the past. The main area where it’s relevant in my experience is in terms of marriage over here, but back home it’s still very much a thing, when it comes to say how a village is divided you’ll have one area that’s where the lower castes live with their own religious buildings, and then the higher caste side will have their own side of the village with its own religious buildings. But I also remember say for example my dads parents being quite welcoming to everyone into their house regardless of how low they supposedly were, where as my mums mum who was a saint in every other way was much less accommodating in how she spoke about people from other castes to our own. And as with most things in India, it’s so damn big it’s very hard to make generalisations.

[Bullet500]

Can’t read the op-ed but can you explain why the caste system isn’t a form of institutional oppression?

A genuine question as I know very little about how relevant the caste system is these days.

I actually think it's a form of oppression institutionalised in South Asian culture. The op-ed is horrible because it says recognising it is wrong. As expected, the writer is a Hindu right wing sympathiser in America.

How relevant it is? https://theprint.in/india/education/diversity-deficit-in-iims-iits-just-23-sts-and-157-scs-in-9640-faculty-posts/191246/

Works in mysterious ways these days. A casteist professor will not write a good recommendation letter for students belonging to certain castes. A casteist interviewer will not give the job to an applicant belonging to a certain caste.

[So… Howard Philips]

I actually think it's a form of oppression institutionalised in South Asian culture. The op-ed is horrible because it says recognising it is wrong. As expected, the writer is a Hindu right wing sympathiser in America.

How relevant it is? https://theprint.in/india/education/diversity-deficit-in-iims-iits-just-23-sts-and-157-scs-in-9640-faculty-posts/191246/

Works in mysterious ways these days. A casteist professor will not write a good recommendation letter for students belonging to certain castes. A casteist interviewer will not give the job to an applicant belonging to a certain caste.

So it’s a class based prejudice peculiar, but not exclusive, to South Asians then.

[Bullet500]

So it’s a class based prejudice peculiar, but not exclusive, to South Asians then.

There's certainly an overlap between caste and class. However, thinking about caste from a class standpoint is very reductive. "Caste" doesn't change across generations. Class can. Moreover, there's ritualistic purity associated with caste. It's borderline racism which is why a preference towards caste endogamy. People broadly think "mixing blood" leads to "inferior" kids.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Can’t read the op-ed but can you explain why the caste system isn’t a form of institutional oppression?

A genuine question as I know very little about how relevant the caste system is these days.

You can read it here:

https://archive.vn/i9Lh7

[west_london_red]

So it’s a class based prejudice peculiar, but not exclusive, to South Asians then.

As Bullet says you can change your class, whether by luck or hard work you can obtain money and move up the class ladder, but you can’t change your caste, even if you try your name will give it away a lot of the time and if you have an unusual name or you change your name the assumption is that you changed it to hide your caste and background and therefore you must be of a lower caste because a high cast person wouldn’t change it.

Where it gets even more confusing is higher caste groups will campaign and lobby for their caste to be listed as an ‘Other Backward Caste’ so they get better allocations of things like university places and government jobs because there is a degree of positive discrimination to help lower castes that the higher castes resent because it leaves them at a disadvantage.

[Bullet500]

India: The Modi Question - https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0dkb144/india-the-modi-question-series-1-episode-1

Best way to access BBC outside of UK? Just use VPN?

[deano2727]

As Bullet says you can change your class, whether by luck or hard work you can obtain money and move up the class ladder, but you can’t change your caste, even if you try your name will give it away a lot of the time and if you have an unusual name or you change your name the assumption is that you changed it to hide your caste and background and therefore you must be of a lower caste because a high cast person wouldn’t change it.

Where it gets even more confusing is higher caste groups will campaign and lobby for their caste to be listed as an ‘Other Backward Caste’ so they get better allocations of things like university places and government jobs because there is a degree of positive discrimination to help lower castes that the higher castes resent because it leaves them at a disadvantage.

Yeah it's quite difficult. I'm not Indian, but I spent a fair few years in India and I can often identify people's religion, where they are from, and sometimes their caste just by knowing their names and seeing what they wear. This is obviously even more apparent to Indians.

I don't think it's all that easy to mask.

[Bullet500]

India blocks YouTube videos and Twitter posts on BBC Modi documentary - https://techcrunch.com/2023/01/21/india-blocks-youtube-videos-and-twitter-posts-on-bbc-modi-documentary/

[west_london_red]

Not in the least bit surprised, I wish I was surprised though

[Nobby Reserve]

India blocks YouTube videos and Twitter posts on BBC Modi documentary - https://techcrunch.com/2023/01/21/india-blocks-youtube-videos-and-twitter-posts-on-bbc-modi-documentary/

Ah, the Hindu-fascists and their Fuhrer Modi.

[RedSince86]

2nd part of that Modi documentary is tonight.

What a detestable disgusting Cretin he is, a Sub Continent Hitler.

[Nobby Reserve]

2nd part of that Modi documentary is tonight.

What a detestable disgusting Cretin he is, a Sub Continent Hitler.

There's been a few 'Modi-Youth' arseholes on here (or perhaps just one and multiple pseuds)

[Bullet500]

"Adani Group: How The World’s 3rd Richest Man Is Pulling The Largest Con In Corporate History" - https://hindenburgresearch.com/?p=2376

"Hindenburg’s Short Sell Call Shaves $12 Billion Off Adani Stocks" - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-01-25/adani-group-stocks-drop-after-hindenburg-takes-short-position

[west_london_red]

Jamia, JNU: India students angry after screenings of BBC Modi documentary blocked

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-64371327


Again, I wish I was surprised but I’m really not.

[Bullet500]

There's been a few 'Modi-Youth' arseholes on here (or perhaps just one and multiple pseuds)

I feel the bigger arseholes are educated/enlightened centrists who side with Modi and promulgate the fascist status quo. These are conscious fascists and they never seem as such. On the other hand, I feel the grassroots workers are just brainwashed youth.

[west_london_red]

"Adani Group: How The World’s 3rd Richest Man Is Pulling The Largest Con In Corporate History" - https://hindenburgresearch.com/?p=2376

"Hindenburg’s Short Sell Call Shaves $12 Billion Off Adani Stocks" - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-01-25/adani-group-stocks-drop-after-hindenburg-takes-short-position

The Adanis and the other oligarchs are now too big, too well politically connected and too much a ‘success symbol’ of modern India that even if it all came crashing down the central government will bail them out. More and more domestically the country is turning into a Putinist tribute act.

[Nobby Reserve]

Wasn't he rumoured to be interested in buying us?

 

[west_london_red]

Wasn't he rumoured to be interested in buying us?

 

To be fair we’ve been linked with just about every billionaire on the planet at some stage or the other in the last couple of months!

I’m sure during the G&H and DIC days Ambani’s name was being thrown about too.

[deano2727]

Finally got a chance to watch the two Modi documentaries.

Pretty hard hitting. When I was living in India I said it to my Indian mates who were siding with Modi, but not exactly fans, and my ex-gf who was Bhakt. It was pretty clear to me what was happening. My mates were like "yeah, but he is doing X and Y good... There just isn't a solid opposition after Congress being in for years and being caught up in all the corruption". I was still hoping that they would somehow get in, but it wasn't to be as they are massively unpopular over the last decades.

India is my favorite country on this planet. I love the people, food, and culture for the most part. I really hope they can sort this out before it escalates beyond repair.

I definitely noticed more tension and more remarks as my time there continued. I was there from 2016-2020 for the most part. The demonetization, Kashmir scandal, Delhi riots, the new document system. It was all a bit of a mess.

I always thought that it made sense just to give Kashmir what they want. They hate Hindu-Indians, Hindu-Indians hate them, and I had a few bad experiences with them over the years as well (not to say they're all bad lads, just that they are marginalised in their country so act out a bit more). Why not jut let them go? Strengthens them? closer to Delhi? Showing weakeness? Controversial opinion I think,but I can't see another option that makes more sense. Why not just remove the problem and give them their independence. They'll never be at peace or peaceful - so just let it go. Of course,ultimately, I know nothing. Just how I see it and would love to hear why this isn't the case. I've said it for years now.

Also, if there any more episodes of the doc or was that it I would assume?

[west_london_red]

Just another Partition related cock-up by the British I am afraid, there was no way they should have allowed Kashmir not to be included in Pakistan when the boundaries were drawn up, but then again the Dogra family that ruled Kashmir were among the slipperiest bastards in all of Indian history.