Topic: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)

[Graeme]

Piquet is obviously a massive dickhead, no mistaking that, but I do dislike the notion that if you don’t speak out against something then you’re automatically for it? Did every single other team and driver publicly come out and slam Piquet on social media except Max and RBR? Highly doubt it. Max an easy target because on this because of his personal life.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Piquet is obviously a massive dickhead, no mistaking that, but I do dislike the notion that if you don’t speak out against something then you’re automatically for it? Did every single other team and driver publicly come out and slam Piquet on social media except Max and RBR? Highly doubt it. Max an easy target because on this because of his personal life.

But Verstappen has actually defended Pique. 

[Graeme]

But Verstappen has actually defended Pique. 

I’m on about the earlier posts really criticising him for saying nothing on social media.

[paulrazor]

If this (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/61999788) article has all the quotes faithfully reproduced how fucking mendacious is the headline?

very misleading

as for Max it is an awkward one for him as he is with Piquets daughter but a foot in mouth job

RBR terminated a drivers contract for using the n word and then saying a fella who used it is a nice guy doesnt add up

should have been "no comment but if racist words are used I cant defend that"

[Funky_Gibbons]

very misleading

as for Max it is an awkward one for him as he is with Piquets daughter but a foot in mouth job

RBR terminated a drivers contract for using the n word and then saying a fella who used it is a nice guy doesnt add up

should have been "no comment but if racist words are used I cant defend that"

Red Bull must have known there would be some tricky questions coming his way. I can't believe they didn't brief him with some 'political' answers, especially off the back of the Vips stuff.

They really haven't looked good this past week and it says a lot about the leadership of Marko and Horner. 

[naYoRHa2b]

Always seems like there's an ulterior motive though, like condemn Piquet for being an ignorant racist prick but trying to pin stuff on Red Bull and Max seems weird. Max hasn't racially abused anyone yet the conversation ends up inferring he has right wing views as do the Red Bull hierarchy.

What about us with Suarez? I mean he actually racially abused someone and we stood by him? What does that say about us, our owners, manager, players? Did we assaasinate their character and judge them? Suggest they were somehow complicit?

Lewis is the one being abused and to be fair he has more class than to pin the blame on red bull.

[paulrazor]

I think looking back we can definitely say we handled the Suarez situation terribly and didnt come out of it looking well.

Hindsight and all that, I mean the t-shirt thing was just embarrassing. And I can find you a thread where someone knew about it 5 hours before kick off, maybe more, and honestly everyone was saying it was going to be brilliant.

I am sure if you asked the same people now what their views were it would be different.

We definitely would have hated Luis Suarez has he played for another club and done what he did (get suspended for using a racist term, and three bans for biting, two of which occured with us).

Again I said a few days before Piquet commented again that he would say the use of the word he used could be interpreted a different way, Suarez used the same reasoning, one thing that might make it different was Suarez's English wasnt great at the time and maybe he didnt understand but Piquet has been able to speak perfect English for at least 30 odd years if not more. He should have known better than to use a word that can be interpreted as racist

Suarez might not have been aware of this back in 2011

Both sorry episodes and unfortunately still a long way to go to combat racism

[CornerFlag]

Don't forget, at least with those in Britain, all sessions are live on Free-To-Air this weekend on Channel 4.

[Funky_Gibbons]

(another) new floor for Mercedes;

[gazzalfc]

(another) new floor for Mercedes;

Just read that with the drop down to 3rd in the constructors following Canada, Mercedes will get more time in the wind tunnel over Red Bull and Ferrari between now and the end of the season. That is more time than they have had in a long time (Wind tunnel time is linked to a teams position in the constructors).

Now alot of their current aero problems have not been seen in the wind tunnels but they will now get a slight edge to try and make improvements.

[TepidT2O]

Notice they only change the edge nowadays… surely a way of saving money

[TepidT2O]

Max has added more on not accepting racism, so I think he’s pretty clear

[Funky_Gibbons]

Just read that with the drop down to 3rd in the constructors following Canada, Mercedes will get more time in the wind tunnel over Red Bull and Ferrari between now and the end of the season. That is more time than they have had in a long time (Wind tunnel time is linked to a teams position in the constructors).

Now alot of their current aero problems have not been seen in the wind tunnels but they will now get a slight edge to try and make improvements.

The problem is there is a 180kph speed limit in the wind tunnels and Toto Wolff explained this is why a lot of their porpoising wasn't detected earlier.

They may be able to improve the cars drag, which Wolff has said is very bad.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Notice they only change the edge nowadays… surely a way of saving money

I wonder whether they're tring to make the ground affects less efficient by almost having an air-leak around the edges.

Wolff said going into the new season they thought ground affects were most efficient with the floor as close to the ground as possible, which is why they're floor is fairly parallel to the ground. But this has made theirs too good and has caused a lot of their purpoising issues.

But they're now saying the better cars on the grid are the ones with more rake which I'd assume makes the ground affects less efficient.

[Persephone]

Always seems like there's an ulterior motive though, like condemn Piquet for being an ignorant racist prick but trying to pin stuff on Red Bull and Max seems weird. Max hasn't racially abused anyone yet the conversation ends up inferring he has right wing views as do the Red Bull hierarchy.

What about us with Suarez? I mean he actually racially abused someone and we stood by him? What does that say about us, our owners, manager, players? Did we assaasinate their character and judge them? Suggest they were somehow complicit?

Lewis is the one being abused and to be fair he has more class than to pin the blame on red bull.

RBR were one of the few teams and Max one of the few drivers who didn't acknowledge what happened until yesterday. This from a team that literally never stops talking to the media, yet in this they are conspicuously quiet? Max has been caught on radio saying racist stuff before, and he followed an extremely racist right winger on Twitter. Not covering himself in glory there when he defends a racist and then says he (a very white man) knows he's not racist. Sure Jan.

Silence these days is not good enough, if we want to "Race as one" then the teams need to act like it and support each other. Not pretend like nothing is happening. RBR have a racism problem they need to sort their shit out.

We as a Club handled the Suarez situation appallingly, looking through the lenses of 2022 we should all be embarrassed. The Club as it stands would not do the same now, so the two situations are not the same.

[killer-heels]

I think looking back we can definitely say we handled the Suarez situation terribly and didnt come out of it looking well.

Hindsight and all that, I mean the t-shirt thing was just embarrassing. And I can find you a thread where someone knew about it 5 hours before kick off, maybe more, and honestly everyone was saying it was going to be brilliant.

I am sure if you asked the same people now what their views were it would be different.

We definitely would have hated Luis Suarez has he played for another club and done what he did (get suspended for using a racist term, and three bans for biting, two of which occured with us).

Again I said a few days before Piquet commented again that he would say the use of the word he used could be interpreted a different way, Suarez used the same reasoning, one thing that might make it different was Suarez's English wasnt great at the time and maybe he didnt understand but Piquet has been able to speak perfect English for at least 30 odd years if not more. He should have known better than to use a word that can be interpreted as racist

Suarez might not have been aware of this back in 2011

Both sorry episodes and unfortunately still a long way to go to combat racism

Yep, I definitely was backing the club at the time. We definitely pretty much all acted like a gang of c*nts.

[Graeme]

Silence these days is not good enough

This is what I have a problem with generally. Not speaking out against something doesn't mean you support it. When the F1 drivers appeared together at pre-season testing to appear in a 'No War' photoshoot the only driver who failed to show was Lewis, there was some bullshit about a missed flight or whatever but nothing was really made of it. Now had that been an anti-racism photoshoot and Max 'missed his flight' there'd be uproar in here.

[El Lobo]

‘My future father in law is not a racist. He may be homophobic, a pig, an idiot, a racist, but he is *not* a porn star!’

[jillcwhomever]

Piquet has always been a dickhead. I remember him insinuating that Senna was gay at the start of his career and then trying to laugh it off as a joke, when Senna questioned it. As a driver he was always indulged throughout his career at Brabham, people would say he had "a child like sense of humour" but that was just his apologists forgiving him on everything as usual. Sadly nothing he says would surprise me. The man needs to grow up but sadly I doubt he ever will.

[TepidT2O]

I wonder whether they're tring to make the ground affects less efficient by almost having an air-leak around the edges.

Wolff said going into the new season they thought ground affects were most efficient with the floor as close to the ground as possible, which is why they're floor is fairly parallel to the ground. But this has made theirs too good and has caused a lot of their purpoising issues.

But they're now saying the better cars on the grid are the ones with more rake which I'd assume makes the ground affects less efficient.

Yes, interesting. I wonder if they’re trying to get the vacuum to gradually collapse rather than do it suddenly causing a bounce…?

This is levels above me I suspect!

[Linudden]

Not sure why Mercedes would waste a set of softs they'll have to hand back on a largely wet track with five mins to go? Many others too. It's not a race tyre but it's very useful to have sets in hand for qualifying.

[eddymunster]

Sky reporting a new video has emerged with Pique offering homophobic remarks, and using the same racist language towards Hamilton....

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/12643698/nelson-piquet-racism-row-escalates-as-homophobic-slur-against-lewis-hamilton-emerges

[bradders1011]

Danny Ric clouting Lando in the face with a space hopper is very funny.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Sky reporting a new video has emerged with Pique offering homophobic remarks, and using the same racist language towards Hamilton....

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/12643698/nelson-piquet-racism-row-escalates-as-homophobic-slur-against-lewis-hamilton-emerges

Jeezus.

No getting out of that now by saying it's a freindly term.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Yes, interesting. I wonder if they’re trying to get the vacuum to gradually collapse rather than do it suddenly causing a bounce…?

This is levels above me I suspect!

Yeah that's what I think they're trying to do.

[eddymunster]

Jeezus.

No getting out of that now by saying it's a freindly term.

It's an uncomfortable watch

[Persephone]

This is what I have a problem with generally. Not speaking out against something doesn't mean you support it. When the F1 drivers appeared together at pre-season testing to appear in a 'No War' photoshoot the only driver who failed to show was Lewis, there was some bullshit about a missed flight or whatever but nothing was really made of it. Now had that been an anti-racism photoshoot and Max 'missed his flight' there'd be uproar in here.

He wasn't there, not that he chose not to join. Lewis was one of the first to post about Ukraine, he doesn't ignore social issues. He and Vettel are the most socially conscience on the grid. Max and RB knew focus would be on them considering Piquets link to Max and the racism incident with their Junior driver. Why the silence? And then for Max to defend Piquet, that's just sheer stupidity.

Jeezus.

No getting out of that now by saying it's a freindly term.

They'll try. Fuck all the Piquets.

[TepidT2O]

I do admire the dignity Hamilton shows in dealing with this crap.

[Linudden]

Should've been obvious that there have been some red flags about Piquet for 40 years. Not the best fighter though, looks like he just gave up after a couple of punches when Salazar didn't fall down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFky8hpVolg

The only reason he didn't get a race ban for this was that Bernie was his team boss. To be fair, Salazar should also have been banned considering he was fucking lapped and tried this move on the race leader 

Anyway, at least Charlie Whiting isn't around to see the sheer collapse of the Brabham legacy in front of our eyes. To be honest, Piquet was definitely someone whose luck outweighed his talents. Brabham had some dreadful pay drivers next to him, Renault had no reliability which blocked three titles from Prost with surgical precision and Williams were in turmoil due to Jones and his allies trying to screw over the faster Reutemann in '81. Then Ferrari had lost their two championship-calibre drivers due to horrific crashes so were left disarmed with the bang average René Arnoux as their lead man in '83.

Then at Williams in 1987 he drove the comfortably best and most reliable car with the very inconsistent Mansell as team mate. Senna was clearly the best driver on track that season but the Lotus just wasn't up for the job. To summarize, Piquet never won a title with more than three race wins! He won four in 1986 but that title loss of his to the much slower McLaren that Prost dragged to incredible heights sums up that he wasn't all that as a driver.

It's not really a fair scenario when you have Piquet and Senna on the same number of titles and Prost only one above Piquet because the infamous Prost/Senna pairing were just miles above Piquet as a driver. I'll give him credit for his 1990 season with Benetton, that was actually the best job he did all of his career.

Even during his career he had a very foul mouth and he hasn't exactly aged with dignity either.

[TepidT2O]

Prost was a sex pest…. I wouldn’t be letting him off the hook…

Senna had the misfortune of dying before he could win more titles of course

[Linudden]

Senna had the misfortune of dying before he could win more titles of course

Senna would've won several more titles if not for the very rare circumstance of the Head/Newey combination torpedoing his early 90s run with McLaren. This was when he finally had made the team his own with a compliant #2 driver and had hit the apex of speed and experience which usually occurs in a drivers early 30s. No matter if you're talking about him ('91 or '93), Schumacher ('00, '01 or '02), Prost ('85 or '86) or Hamilton ('15 or '18) they all had in common that they were at their consistent best at some point between 30 and 33. Given Alonso's astonishing underdog year in that Ferrari at 31, I'd say it applies to him also.

[Funky_Gibbons]

McClaren trying to put a wheel on the wrong way round 🤣

[RedInside]

Luckily I'm not held responsible for my father in law's comments, I'd be done for

[El Lobo]

Luckily I'm not held responsible for my father in law's comments, I'd be done for

Aye

It’s not a great look if they seem to align with actions you’ve taken in the past though (or not taken), or people you’ve associated with….

[jackh]

To be fair every one of you would publicly call Nelson Piquet a nice fella for a night with his daughter.

Have to say, I find this kind of objectification - particularly amidst a discussion concerning a sensitive topic of discrimination - really disappointing on RAWK.

Have been pleased to see the forum become increasingly inclusive over the years, with distasteful threads from the past being locked and inappropriate posts being deleted and/or called out. Aside from the impersonal way the quoted post refers to "his daughter", I also dislike the assumptions & inferences it seems to make about "every one of you".

(Not to come across as ham-fisted as Max here, by the way, but this isn't intended as a 'personal' call out of a specific poster - no issue there - more so just calling a post as I see it).

[Linudden]

Only Ferrari can go from easy low 1'29s on mediums on a green track to struggling to crack 1'28 lows on a soft set on a rubbered-in track in 24 hours time. They never cease to baffle me the lot of them 

[Skeeve]

It's good that he apologizes and probably more than I thought he would do but come on Nelson, just admit that you fucked up and said some racist shit

It is the modern way, apologies are only if somebody was affected, offended etc rather than the apologiser actually having the guts to admit they were wrong and fucked up with what they did or said and it is a shame that the media never calls this non-apology out whether its from politicians, celebs or whatever.

[jillcwhomever]

Have to say, I find this kind of objectification - particularly amidst a discussion concerning a sensitive topic of discrimination - really disappointing on RAWK.

Have been pleased to see the forum become increasingly inclusive over the years, with distasteful threads from the past being locked and inappropriate posts being deleted and/or called out. Aside from the impersonal way the quoted post refers to "his daughter", I also dislike the assumptions & inferences it seems to make about "every one of you".

(Not to come across as ham-fisted as Max here, by the way, but this isn't intended as a 'personal' call out of a specific poster - no issue there - more so just calling a post as I see it).

A good point.

[Skeeve]

Yep, I definitely was backing the club at the time. We definitely pretty much all acted like a gang of c*nts.

To be fair, the initial situation seemed to be a case of whose word did you take and given the other one was that twat Evra, some benefit of the doubt seemed merited at first, even if those tshirts were a horrible idea.

[jillcwhomever]

Why are they obsessed by inviting boring celebrities to these events? It makes it seem so superficial, I’d sooner they opened it up for the proper fans.