Author Topic: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)  (Read 190959 times)

Online TepidT2O

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2800 on: July 4, 2022, 03:04:05 pm »
Tepid’s razor.

If there is a choice between something being monumental incompetence and some covert 3D chess plan as an explanation ..

It’s always monumental incompetence
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Offline Darren G

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2801 on: July 4, 2022, 04:04:24 pm »
I don't really get the criticism of Ferrari or Sainz after the initial team orders swap.

It seemed to me that Ferrari did what most teams do, they swapped the cars with the guy who was behind basically told to prove how much faster he was or they would swap back.
I'm guessing that that is why Sainz got the stop for tyres under the SC, as from the teams POV, he was still technically the race leader.

It wasn't done to swap them back, as Charles was faster than Carlos once they'd swapped.   It was simply the usual Ferrari strategic clusterfuck and out-thinking themselves:

 Mattia Binotto defended his team’s choices. “I think the decision we took was the right one, the proper one, each single time. Should we have stopped at the Safety Car is maybe the only one we are questioning, I think. If we would have stopped [Charles] maybe the others would have stayed out and he would have maybe been fourth on soft tyres[/b].

« Last Edit: July 4, 2022, 04:11:38 pm by Darren G »

Offline Linudden

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2802 on: July 4, 2022, 04:23:04 pm »
Worst-case scenario for Ferrari would've been Charles in P2 because they controlled the fate of Carlos stopping or not and the nearest car that wasn't Lewis was way back.

Binotto is talking utter jibberish as usual. Clueless.
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Offline El Lobo

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2803 on: July 4, 2022, 04:35:45 pm »
Worst-case scenario for Ferrari would've been Charles in P2 because they controlled the fate of Carlos stopping or not and the nearest car that wasn't Lewis was way back.

Binotto is talking utter jibberish as usual. Clueless.

Lewis wasn't particularly far back (3-4 seconds maybe?) from Sainz, so double stacking them would have put Sainz at risk of being jumped during the pits, and then put Leclerc at risk from someone who wasn't his teammate in second place. They could have pitted Leclerc and left Sainz out and then tried to swap, but you're then basically screwing Sainz and also again risking a challenge from someone else.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Darren G

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2804 on: July 4, 2022, 05:00:36 pm »
Lewis wasn't particularly far back (3-4 seconds maybe?) from Sainz, so double stacking them would have put Sainz at risk of being jumped during the pits, and then put Leclerc at risk from someone who wasn't his teammate in second place. They could have pitted Leclerc and left Sainz out and then tried to swap, but you're then basically screwing Sainz and also again risking a challenge from someone else.

He said "the first car that wasn't Lewis".  You're correct that Lewis wasn't far back (1.4 seconds), but even if Lewis had jumped Sainz, I very much doubt that he would have kept him behind him on the straights.  We all saw how much trouble Leclerc gave Lewis, even with a broken end plate and on old hard tyres, so I'm pretty sure that Sainz would have gotten past Lewis in the event that they got jumped in the pits.  That said, I don't think that a double stack would have been too much of an issue regardless as Charles was nearly 5 seconds up the road from Carlos at the time of the safety car. 

As for Binotto saying that if they pitted Charles he could have come out fourth if others had not pitted....how exactly?  Perez was 31 seconds behind at that point.  The man is inept.   

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2805 on: July 4, 2022, 05:20:54 pm »
Norris has way out performed him

Strange the way Danny ric is way off the boil

It’s completely perplexing what’s happened to him, he was one of the most entertaining drivers on the grid when he was at Red Bull, held his own against Verstappen, but since then it’s just been downhill for him.
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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2806 on: July 4, 2022, 05:32:20 pm »
It wasn't done to swap them back, as Charles was faster than Carlos once they'd swapped.   It was simply the usual Ferrari strategic clusterfuck and out-thinking themselves:

 Mattia Binotto defended his team’s choices. “I think the decision we took was the right one, the proper one, each single time. Should we have stopped at the Safety Car is maybe the only one we are questioning, I think. If we would have stopped [Charles] maybe the others would have stayed out and he would have maybe been fourth on soft tyres[/b].



It’s a weak argument for me from Binotto. If Leclerc had pitted and neither Sainz or Hamilton had and they stayed out on their used hard tyres, Leclerc takes them both and cruises to the win. When they were all on the same tyres Leclerc had the pace over Sainz and Leclerc and Hamilton were trading fastest times so there wasn’t a lot between them so give him fresh tyres that are two compounds soft and it’s not even a contest.
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Offline RedG13

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2807 on: July 5, 2022, 01:11:31 am »
It wasn't done to swap them back, as Charles was faster than Carlos once they'd swapped.   It was simply the usual Ferrari strategic clusterfuck and out-thinking themselves:

 Mattia Binotto defended his team’s choices. “I think the decision we took was the right one, the proper one, each single time. Should we have stopped at the Safety Car is maybe the only one we are questioning, I think. If we would have stopped [Charles] maybe the others would have stayed out and he would have maybe been fourth on soft tyres[/b].
If he 4th on soft tyres and everybody else has old hards I would expect him to find a way to pass everybody and win.

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2808 on: July 5, 2022, 03:43:09 am »
you reckon trent had ever heard of max verstappen before?

Probably late to the party for this one and have no idea, if it has been said on one of the more recent pages, but in one of the Wingmen-episodes for LFC youtube or for whatever outlet they were made, one question from Robbo to Trent was about the most famous non-footballing celebrity he has in his phone book, Trent mentioned that he had Max Verstappen in there. ;)

Offline Darren G

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2809 on: July 5, 2022, 04:42:26 am »
It’s completely perplexing what’s happened to him, he was one of the most entertaining drivers on the grid when he was at Red Bull, held his own against Verstappen, but since then it’s just been downhill for him.

There's an interesting video on the possible reasons for the issues that Danny is facing:

 <a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/TVKeBAyIjyw" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/TVKeBAyIjyw</a>

Offline voodoo ray

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2810 on: July 5, 2022, 07:03:56 am »
Probably late to the party for this one and have no idea, if it has been said on one of the more recent pages, but in one of the Wingmen-episodes for LFC youtube or for whatever outlet they were made, one question from Robbo to Trent was about the most famous non-footballing celebrity he has in his phone book, Trent mentioned that he had Max Verstappen in there. ;)

yeah brundle's grid interview with him confirmed he was actually into it.

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2811 on: July 5, 2022, 08:24:09 am »
yeah brundle's grid interview with him confirmed he was actually into it.
Which is more than can be said for Brundles football knowledge  ;D
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Offline voodoo ray

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2812 on: July 5, 2022, 08:38:55 am »
Which is more than can be said for Brundles football knowledge  ;D

Aye he's said before that the only sports he's interested in are ones with engines

Offline Linudden

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2813 on: July 5, 2022, 11:32:51 am »
Ricciardo was a bit on the decline at the end next to Verstappen, it's just that he had a brief resurgence at Renault when they based their entire operation around him and his very particular requirements from a car. At McLaren, the car was tailored to what Norris and Sainz liked and it just snowballed from there. Departing Renault was just a really silly move for him. In the end, it's a shame to see the driver who was arguably the best on the grid for a very brief spell in 2014 fade out like this but sometimes it just happens this way. Remember Damon Hill at Jordan? His driving just collapsed between '98 and '99 and he couldn't recover.
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Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2814 on: July 5, 2022, 11:49:46 am »


The piece of debris that was caught in Verstappens floor.  ;D
« Last Edit: July 5, 2022, 12:21:15 pm by Funky_Gibbons »
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Online TepidT2O

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2815 on: July 5, 2022, 12:09:37 pm »


The piece of debris that was caught in Verstappens fllor.  ;D
An entire Ferrari endplate!

Amazing how much it affected the car.
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Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2816 on: July 5, 2022, 12:20:57 pm »
An entire Ferrari endplate!

Amazing how much it affected the car.
I think it's off the Alpine when they hit each other.
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Online TepidT2O

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2817 on: July 6, 2022, 07:28:11 pm »
I think it's off the Alpine when they hit each other.
I’m still going to blame Ferrari. ;D
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Offline voodoo ray

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2818 on: July 6, 2022, 07:50:02 pm »
I think it's a bit of alpha tauri.

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2819 on: July 7, 2022, 08:44:37 am »
I think it's a bit of alpha tauri.
Sorry that's what I meant, when Gasly and Tsunoda collided.
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Offline El Lobo

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2820 on: July 8, 2022, 12:27:46 pm »
Didn't realise there was another one this week. Red Bull Ring with sprint quali, this'll be fun  ::)
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2821 on: July 8, 2022, 12:30:57 pm »
I don't mind this track. whether or not it's right for a sprint or not I guess we'll find out.

hamilton's crochet bucket hat on the other hand? yeah I'm sceptical about that
« Last Edit: July 8, 2022, 12:33:19 pm by voodoo ray »

Offline El Lobo

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2822 on: July 8, 2022, 12:45:38 pm »
I don't mind this track. whether or not it's right for a sprint or not I guess we'll find out.

hamilton's crochet bucket hat on the other hand? yeah I'm sceptical about that

I'm pretty sure he's working towards this sort of look

If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2823 on: July 8, 2022, 12:55:12 pm »
I don't mind this track. whether or not it's right for a sprint or not I guess we'll find out.

hamilton's crochet bucket hat on the other hand? yeah I'm sceptical about that
Maybe having three DRS zones makes it good for sprint races, more overtaking opportunities.
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Offline iamnant

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2824 on: July 8, 2022, 01:24:56 pm »
Looking another grim weekend for Danny Ric. Hopefully he turns it round before Sunday.
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Offline voodoo ray

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2825 on: July 8, 2022, 01:26:40 pm »
Looking another grim weekend for Danny Ric. Hopefully he turns it round before Sunday.

in his defence the rear wing has been a bit buggered so he hasn't really been able to put in a proper time yet

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2826 on: July 8, 2022, 01:46:49 pm »
in his defence the rear wing has been a bit buggered so he hasn't really been able to put in a proper time yet

Yeah, the Alpine and McLaren drivers put their best times in on the medium compound tyres too. Straight into qualifying now though...

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2827 on: July 8, 2022, 02:00:14 pm »
in his defence the rear wing has been a bit buggered so he hasn't really been able to put in a proper time yet
Was including his lack of luck with the wing in his grimness. Look forward to seeing how it is by quali.
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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2828 on: July 8, 2022, 02:00:42 pm »
alonso's time on the medium seemed very quick. whether that will translate to them also being quick on the soft is anyone's guess though

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2829 on: July 8, 2022, 03:33:16 pm »
Rather slow times in general though, the Q3 cutoff last year was 1:04.547 so they were pretty much two seconds away from that on a very short circuit. The Q3 cutoff in 2017 was 1:05.544 and these cars are definitely comparable to 2017 at any circuit. It's fair to say that there will be vast improvements in qualifying. Leclerc did his best time after more than a dozen laps on the softs or so. Verstappen did his time with little rubber on the circuit.
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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2830 on: July 8, 2022, 04:02:54 pm »
Bottas taking a new engine so will start at the back on sunday (penalties applied to result of the sprint)

Norris now using an old engine due to an engine fire in FP1

He also has a very unfortunate stat of never finishing round 11 in F1. Austria is Round 11

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2831 on: July 8, 2022, 04:15:53 pm »
Track limits regulations have gotten out of hand. Just let the driver use the damn kerbs!
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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2832 on: July 8, 2022, 04:20:10 pm »
Dani Ric out in Q1 as both Aston Martins

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2833 on: July 8, 2022, 04:20:13 pm »
Was including his lack of luck with the wing in his grimness. Look forward to seeing how it is by quali.
Well, fuck.
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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2834 on: July 8, 2022, 04:22:30 pm »
ricciardo looked closer to 7th than 17th there but you're going to get small gaps at a short circuit like this one.

either way he's out.


and the track limit rules are correct because the track is the bit between the white lines. over the white lines? you're off the fucking track. no sympathy.

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2835 on: July 8, 2022, 04:23:59 pm »
Brutal stuff for him at the moment, not what you need when you're being talked about as being replaced soon.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2836 on: July 8, 2022, 04:37:03 pm »
and the track limit rules are correct because the track is the bit between the white lines. over the white lines? you're off the fucking track. no sympathy.
Agreed, especially as they've pointed out that you can gain an advantage going into the next lap too by crossing the white line.
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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2837 on: July 8, 2022, 04:42:47 pm »
Go ed Haas lads.
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Offline El Lobo

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2838 on: July 8, 2022, 04:44:20 pm »
McLarens in 15th and 16th though, thats rotten
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Formula 1 2022: The return of ground effect(s)
« Reply #2839 on: July 8, 2022, 04:45:08 pm »
That McLaren looks awful under braking.
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