Author Topic: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD  (Read 2350301 times)

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35560 on: August 9, 2022, 04:15:31 pm »
Why? They have signed Phillips

Phillips plays a different position.
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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35561 on: August 9, 2022, 04:19:44 pm »
Speaking of Leicester midfielders, Dewsbury-Hall profiles well.

When I watch him play, my heart goes boom boom boom.
We have to change from doubter to believer. Now.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35562 on: August 9, 2022, 04:38:13 pm »
He's far from the definition of average, but he doesn't have the athleticism for us.


That's what we need more than anything, legs in the midfield. The eye test isn't for everyone but you can just see it. On turnovers we look very vulnerable and it just looks slow in there and that impacts us in many different ways.

Fabinho, Henderson, Keita, Thiago, Milner, all of them have different skillsets but athleticism an an old fashion sense doesn't apply to them. Legs in the midfield is vital.

Offline Classycara

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35563 on: August 9, 2022, 04:40:29 pm »
When I watch him play, my heart goes boom boom boom.

That's so bad. You can pack your bags, they've come to take you home.

Offline Dave McCoy

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35564 on: August 9, 2022, 04:50:32 pm »
It sounds like Tielemanns is available for a pretty reasonable fee considering he has 12 months to go on his contract. So far it seems clear that it's just not LFC that have a lower opinion on him then some of you here. Otherwise why is he still at Leicester?

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35565 on: August 9, 2022, 04:55:14 pm »
It sounds like Tielemanns is available for a pretty reasonable fee considering he has 12 months to go on his contract. So far it seems clear that it's just not LFC that have a lower opinion on him then some of you here. Otherwise why is he still at Leicester?

The two dont go hand in hand, there's a pretty wide spectrum between being good enough for Leicester and being good enough for Liverpool. And he might fancy leaving on a free next summer so he doesn't have to choose between Arsenal and United, who knows.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35566 on: August 9, 2022, 04:57:34 pm »
The two dont go hand in hand, there's a pretty wide spectrum between being good enough for Leicester and being good enough for Liverpool. And he might fancy leaving on a free next summer so he doesn't have to choose between Arsenal and United, who knows.

Then you'd probably see press briefings about that's what he intends to do which is pretty typical. Instead it's that he wants to play in the CL and nobody that is in the CL wants him or can afford him.

Offline Magix

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35567 on: August 9, 2022, 05:10:05 pm »
I’ll have what you’re having please.

Just good ol' grade A hopium.

Offline robertobaggio37

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35568 on: August 9, 2022, 05:28:37 pm »
It would be great to have some scoring asset in the midfield, something we really missed for a while now. Reckon SMS would be ideal in that aspect but I really don’t see us spending the fee United are rumoured to pay. Good signing for them unfortunately if they pull it off.

What are your odds on us signing a midfielder this window?

« Last Edit: August 9, 2022, 07:35:59 pm by robertobaggio37 »
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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35569 on: August 9, 2022, 05:45:51 pm »
Tielemans is the definition of average. Lijnders explained our strategy clearly, if the club can't identify or afford a qauilty player then Klopp would rather wait instead of wasting money on the likes of Tielemans.

Tielmans is a red herring though. He's not the profile of player we'd want or suit us. Plenty out there that are and would boost the squad.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35570 on: August 9, 2022, 06:12:47 pm »
That's so bad. You can pack your bags, they've come to take you home.
;D
We have to change from doubter to believer. Now.

Offline Samie

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35571 on: August 9, 2022, 06:20:54 pm »

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35572 on: August 9, 2022, 06:22:36 pm »


I think their peak's are peaking a touch too early.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35573 on: August 9, 2022, 06:24:33 pm »
Salah past his best. Shouldn't have given him that contract.
We have to change from doubter to believer. Now.

Offline JasonF

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35574 on: August 9, 2022, 06:26:56 pm »
When has 24-26 ever been peak age for a midfielder?

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35575 on: August 9, 2022, 06:51:30 pm »
When has 24-26 ever been peak age for a midfielder?

Since Mark Carey and Caoimhe O’Neill decided it was, so they could write the increasingly on-brand Athletic fluff piece this morning.
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Offline WoodenHanger

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35576 on: August 9, 2022, 06:57:40 pm »
It sounds like Tielemanns is available for a pretty reasonable fee considering he has 12 months to go on his contract. So far it seems clear that it's just not LFC that have a lower opinion on him then some of you here. Otherwise why is he still at Leicester?

He runs like he's wearing a 100 year old diving suit, welded to the seabed. Covered in concrete.

Offline JackWard33

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35577 on: August 9, 2022, 07:08:56 pm »
I think their peak's are peaking a touch too early.

Always the perception which will never shift due to survivor bias (ie the older players who are still elite are the ones you remember)
I don't know what data they're using for this chart specifically but in general it's usually based on output on the pitch across all players of that age and almost always comes out as younger than people perceive. (I do think their bands of peak are too narrow in that graph fwiw)
Its obviously subject to a lot of argument, and quite an interesting topic by the by ... its better served as an overall view rather than getting hung up on individuals as they all vary so much

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35578 on: August 9, 2022, 07:22:28 pm »

Instead of buying players, we need to clear out the deadwood first. Virgil, Mo, Thiago, Fabinho, Robbo all past their best.

Offline Romford_Red

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35579 on: August 9, 2022, 07:42:41 pm »
His value will only increase which means he'd be more easily attainable now than in 12 months time when there will be more clubs interested in him and his value increased, especially if he has a good world cup and/or season with Dortmund.

Dortmund would sell this year if the fee was right. I've said for months now I'd offer 60m and Naby and see what they say.


Offline Romford_Red

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35580 on: August 9, 2022, 07:44:13 pm »
Is Peak age, the new xG?

Offline Bangin Them In

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35581 on: August 9, 2022, 07:58:28 pm »
His value will only increase which means he'd be more easily attainable now than in 12 months time when there will be more clubs interested in him and his value increased, especially if he has a good world cup and/or season with Dortmund.

Dortmund would sell this year if the fee was right. I've said for months now I'd offer 60m and Naby and see what they say.

What if this year he were to just keep falling over though ?

Value plummets
A win for the Liverpool country

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35582 on: August 9, 2022, 08:36:24 pm »
Fresh reports coming in that Matheus Nunes has rejected Wolves approach yet again as he want to play Champions League footie.  :D

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35583 on: August 9, 2022, 08:37:45 pm »
I think their peak's are peaking a touch too early.

'Liverpool fielded their oldest XI since 1953 in the Community Shield and had six players aged 30 and over in their starting XI for a Premier League game for the first time since 1994'


Even so we seem to be placing a lot of confidence on this idea that advancements in sports science means players decline later and slower. We maybe right.
I wanna be like Jurgen Klopp

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35584 on: August 9, 2022, 09:06:14 pm »
Well still be fine even if we don’t bring an extra body in, just need Jones Elliot and Keita to remain durable during these next couple months.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35585 on: August 9, 2022, 09:24:14 pm »
Well still be fine even if we don’t bring an extra body in, just need Jones Elliot and Keita to remain durable during these next couple months.
Jones is currently injured which doesn’t help, he’ll be out a few more weeks then probably need a couple after that to get sharpness.

On the peak age graph, it’s probably not far off right in terms of peak productivity. There’s a lot more data though that doesn’t inform that, such as where the productivity occurs and scaling it adequately, which such a simple graphic is not capable of. The example being, if Striker A scores 25 goals in the Championship, moves to the Premier League and grabs 18, which of these is the most impressive and what’s considered the peak and the peak production in this scenario? I’d argue that peaks typically last a lot longer than that for the truly elite players. I’d tend to say a proper peak for a high end player would be 4-5 years. Interesting though as a tool to show the squad’s age composition.

On Nunes, looking at his distance covered, his ball recoveries following a press and the areas he’s pressing in, he’s got some engine. Whether we’re genuinely interested or not the lad is an athlete.
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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35586 on: August 9, 2022, 09:47:15 pm »

'Liverpool fielded their oldest XI since 1953 in the Community Shield and had six players aged 30 and over in their starting XI for a Premier League game for the first time since 1994'


Even so we seem to be placing a lot of confidence on this idea that advancements in sports science means players decline later and slower. We maybe right.

It’s slightly misleading because there’s no way Firmino is starting many games this season once Jota is back and Nunez up to speed. Also, Konate is definitely ahead of Matip in the pecking order these days. That said, our midfield is an issue. It’s old, slow and injury prone.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35587 on: August 9, 2022, 09:47:34 pm »
DS can you do one of your scout reports on Matheus Nunes please mate?
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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35588 on: August 9, 2022, 10:01:23 pm »

'Liverpool fielded their oldest XI since 1953 in the Community Shield and had six players aged 30 and over in their starting XI for a Premier League game for the first time since 1994'


Even so we seem to be placing a lot of confidence on this idea that advancements in sports science means players decline later and slower. We maybe right.

We did look old and stale in that game. For me the likes of Gomez, one of Elliott or Jones and Nunez really need to be in the team more often than not.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35589 on: August 9, 2022, 10:32:17 pm »
We did look old and stale in that game. For me the likes of Gomez, one of Elliott or Jones and Nunez really need to be in the team more often than not.

Konate too.

Who were the 6 over 30?

Virg - at least a couple of seasons in him. No need to worry
Matip - still playing at a high level. Both Konate and Gomez waiting in the wings
Henderson - game time needs to be managed
Thiago - as above
Firmino - will probably be a sub option sooner rather than later
Salah - no concerns

Ironically it’s the old boys keeping fit and plenty of the younger ones proving less durable. Harvey, Keita and Jones getting game time in the two more advanced midfield positions will make that slightly eyebrow raising stat feel a lot better. As will Nunez or Jota starting in Bobby’s place.

Offline Drinks Sangria

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35590 on: August 9, 2022, 10:43:06 pm »
DS can you do one of your scout reports on Matheus Nunes please mate?
I have probably only seen him play 3 or 4 times, so largely I’m going off that small sample size for the old eye test, and what I can read into by the numbers. I did see him play live a few times when trying to watch Diaz and Nunez prior to their moves - always thought he looks a player.

I was surprised to see he’s ‘only’ 6 foot, carries himself a lot taller and is physical with it, bullying a lot of players in the Portuguese league. The word I’d use is ‘hustle,’ his energy and non-stop belligerence is what forces possession turnovers - I mentioned earlier that not only is he a ceaseless presser with 23 per 90, he’s intelligent with it, he’s in the top 2% of outfield players forcing possession turnovers in Europe last season. For a player who’s primary skillset is not as a ball winner, that’s pretty impressive. He covers a lot of ground too. That’s not always necessarily an indicator of much beyond great conditioning, but we all know what legs in midfield can do to the opposition. 

The other area he’s great in is dribbling and carrying. He has massive talent here - good turn of pace, lovely close control typical of players whose formative years came in Brazil. He maybe somewhat over
-complicates at times and needs to learn when to lay the ball off or look for an early release rather than trying to hold onto it further. He had the bizarre stat last season of completing more dribbles than he did combined shots and key passes, which probably proves he’s an 8 rather than a 10 and also suggests he needs more honing on his decision making in the final third. 3.19 successful dribbles per90 is frankly insane though and I think this is something that could be directly translated to the Premier League. Whilst he doesn’t necessarily play the game in the same way, he reminds me a touch of Moussa Dembele, formerly of Spurs, in his strength, aggression, ability to wipe out opposition players from the defensive phase with his carrying and his overall dribbling quality. He probably shares the same downside that he needs to be more actively productive. The right coaching set up alleviates that I’d think.

One small caveat is that in our midfield specifically, I doubt he would dovetail with Keita well. He needs a proper 6 because he’s pretty adventurous and Keita does a lot of what Nunes does - the carries, attempts at penetrative passes. Keita’s a better passer, Nunes covers more ground and beats players more. They’re essentially both high-risk, high reward players who do a lot of the same thing. My worry is that in a pairing together they take too many risks and force too many turnovers without the basis to defend those turnovers if they’re both caught high up, which looking at average pitch positioning of them both, their natural games suggest they would be. That asks the question why would we go for him when Keita does a lot of what he does brilliantly fairly well himself, and a lot of what Nunes isn’t great at a lot better? I suppose that comes down to durability, how to optimise those skill sets and the fact that Nunes gives you more intangibles on the defensive side of the game, given his pace and power.

Sporting are a high-pressing outfit and have produced as many quality midfielders as anyone in the last few years, so I’d be inclined to think he’d work here and fit in fairly quickly. He needs a coach who will hone his decision making but keep alive that vital spark that makes him so entertaining to watch. Super press resistant, phenomenal athlete. Hard to benchmark his value but he’s clearly ready for a crack at a top club.

A long one given I’ve literally seen him live a handful of times, but he’s a really interesting player. Way too good for Wolves for sure.
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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35591 on: August 9, 2022, 10:57:06 pm »
Speaking of Leicester midfielders, Dewsbury-Hall profiles well.
I agree, a young Jordan Henderson

Offline Dave McCoy

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35592 on: August 9, 2022, 11:09:21 pm »

'Liverpool fielded their oldest XI since 1953 in the Community Shield and had six players aged 30 and over in their starting XI for a Premier League game for the first time since 1994'


Even so we seem to be placing a lot of confidence on this idea that advancements in sports science means players decline later and slower. We maybe right.

As others have noted we do already have replacements lined up for certain spots. Mainly CB and FW. So it's not as dire as it seems. Getting to be beating a dead horse here though in that again our midfield is where the real issue is. Nobody beats Father Time unfortunately and there is no guarantee that any of the younger players will ever get to the required level. I've said for a long time now that the Thiago signing was one of the stranger ones during Klopp's time here and the repercussions from that are even now still being felt. Nobody is really better than him when fit so it makes any replacement talk seem strange in that if Thiago is fit they wouldn't play. Hendo might actually be toast though at this point. His performance against a pretty pedestrian midfield put out by Fulham was quite shocking until he moved into the 6. He did start slow last year as well though so I guess we'll see how this goes.

Offline JackWard33

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35593 on: August 9, 2022, 11:53:39 pm »
As others have noted we do already have replacements lined up for certain spots. Mainly CB and FW. So it's not as dire as it seems. Getting to be beating a dead horse here though in that again our midfield is where the real issue is. Nobody beats Father Time unfortunately and there is no guarantee that any of the younger players will ever get to the required level. I've said for a long time now that the Thiago signing was one of the stranger ones during Klopp's time here and the repercussions from that are even now still being felt. Nobody is really better than him when fit so it makes any replacement talk seem strange in that if Thiago is fit they wouldn't play. Hendo might actually be toast though at this point. His performance against a pretty pedestrian midfield put out by Fulham was quite shocking until he moved into the 6. He did start slow last year as well though so I guess we'll see how this goes.

Thaigo makes sense as an adornment to a winning team that you can play when he’s fit or use as a game changer .. he makes zero sense as our last significant midfield signing for 3 years (assuming we don’t buy this window)

As aside I love the player, I think he might be my favourite CM to watch of all time.. he’s definitely on the short list… but getting a hamstring in the first game of the season is pretty ludicrous. It’s not great and the tragedy is he’s very unlikely to get less injury prone as he ages
« Last Edit: August 10, 2022, 12:37:01 am by JackWard33 »

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35594 on: August 10, 2022, 03:11:51 am »

'Liverpool fielded their oldest XI since 1953 in the Community Shield and had six players aged 30 and over in their starting XI for a Premier League game for the first time since 1994'


Even so we seem to be placing a lot of confidence on this idea that advancements in sports science means players decline later and slower. We maybe right.

Well who cares, as long as players are performing. Would you be ok if we sold Salah or Virgil just because they are past some arbitrary "peak age".

Offline mullyred94

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35595 on: August 10, 2022, 03:13:05 am »
Also haven’t they all been muscle injuries mostly apart from the Richarlison tackle? That’s the most worrying part.

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35596 on: August 10, 2022, 08:40:56 am »
Also haven’t they all been muscle injuries mostly apart from the Richarlison tackle? That’s the most worrying part.

It’s not so much worrying as just the way it is
He’s never played close to a full season, in fact he’s only managed more than 20 league starts or >2000 minutes in his career twice
So effectively we have one of the best on the planet, maybe the best … but it’s a game of roulette as to when you get to play him. Fuck knows how you plan round that if you’re the manager

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35597 on: August 10, 2022, 08:51:40 am »
Well who cares, as long as players are performing. Would you be ok if we sold Salah or Virgil just because they are past some arbitrary "peak age".
Exactly. We won the game ;D

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35598 on: August 10, 2022, 09:37:09 am »
It’s not so much worrying as just the way it is
He’s never played close to a full season, in fact he’s only managed more than 20 league starts or >2000 minutes in his career twice
So effectively we have one of the best on the planet, maybe the best … but it’s a game of roulette as to when you get to play him. Fuck knows how you plan round that if you’re the manager

It is a conundrum but for the midfield is almost a start again type situation. Even if we were to bring in a couple of players we would still have to ‘carry’ Henderson and Thiago so straight away thats two midfielders with issues and age (albeit Henderson was available a lot last season).

Thats the only reason to not extend Keita’s contract, because I cant see how we can go forward with 4 midfielders of Fabinho, Henderson, Thiago and Keita. Its too injury prone.

I personally dont think the midfield is a good use of our resources. We shouldnt really have 8 or so midfielders, where about 6 are probably on 100k a week or more.

Offline BobPaisley3

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Re: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #35599 on: August 10, 2022, 09:55:00 am »
It is a conundrum but for the midfield is almost a start again type situation. Even if we were to bring in a couple of players we would still have to ‘carry’ Henderson and Thiago so straight away thats two midfielders with issues and age (albeit Henderson was available a lot last season).

Thats the only reason to not extend Keita’s contract, because I cant see how we can go forward with 4 midfielders of Fabinho, Henderson, Thiago and Keita. Its too injury prone.

I personally dont think the midfield is a good use of our resources. We shouldnt really have 8 or so midfielders, where about 6 are probably on 100k a week or more.
Next season as certainties you’re probably looking at:
Fabinho
Henderson
Thiago
Elliott
Jones

Milner and Ox gone, and Keita we’re unsure of. From the first list, Hendo will be 33, Thiago has only been available for four tenths of the games we’ve had him for, jury is still very much out on Jones. We’re going to need two, possibly three over the next three windows. For all the talk of Bellingham, it’s him plus at least 1 more.