Author Topic: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD  (Read 1034524 times)

Offline killer-heels

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13400 on: August 17, 2022, 07:11:58 pm »
I really hope this isn't true. Think we would possibly need 3 CM's next summer if this happens especially with the likely departure of Oxlade-Chamberlain and Milner.

The midfield needs a massive shake up. We are wasting too much money in that area so we might as well get to work now.

Offline Classycara

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13401 on: August 17, 2022, 07:17:03 pm »
Some reality at last. Not quite sure what he’s unhappy about, the boot is on the other foot there.

He had a better season than Hendo did last season.

Would be mad to lose him at this point, and given our options the next best alternative to him extending (barring an unlikley huge bid) is keeping him until he sees his contract out.

If we were planning on losing him, or at least knew we weren't going to renew him, you'd imagine we might have leaned into starting the transition away from our midfield options to new players from this summer rather than waiting as we are.

Online disgraced cake

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13402 on: August 17, 2022, 07:17:10 pm »
Said it for a while now but would be surprised if Keita actually did sign. He'll know it hasn't really ever happened for him here and a move is probably in his best interest because at this stage he'll never become a nailed on starter for us, it just won't happen.

Milner/Chamberlain/surely going next season and as I say I think Keita makes it three. Please just sign one now because there's no way we won't need at least two next summer if we don't buy now. It's also entirely possible Thiago gets more injuries, and when Henderson gets something it's usually a lengthy one as opposed to a small knock. It's only hypothetical with those two but it's more than a possibility. Both ageing regardless. I really hope Jones and Elliot can perform well and stay injury free this season as it'd ease the burden in 12 months.

I'm absolutely certain we aren't going to buy three next summer but it could be needed and that isn't a throwing toys out the pram statement. Thankfully we're looking good in terms of defensive and forward options as it stands because it's clear to the world where we need to be looking at.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2022, 07:19:07 pm by disgraced cake »
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Offline Lastrador

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13403 on: August 17, 2022, 07:36:14 pm »
He had a better season than Hendo did last season.

Would be mad to lose him at this point, and given our options the next best alternative to him extending (barring an unlikley huge bid) is keeping him until he sees his contract out.

If we were planning on losing him, or at least knew we weren't going to renew him, you'd imagine we might have leaned into starting the transition away from our midfield options to new players from this summer rather than waiting as we are.
Based on what parameter exactly? I mean Henderson played 3.846 minutes to Naby's 2.083. So only in terms of actually being on the pitch, there's a massive difference. Performance level is a bit more subjective, but personally, I don't feel there was that much between them on that front either. Obviously, Henderson playing so much more, and at his age, meant his form would dip at some points of the season, but I rather his constant presence, even if he's not always at his best, than Naby's arguably more consistent form, but far patchier availability.

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13404 on: August 17, 2022, 07:44:17 pm »
I like Keita but his situation doesn’t exist in a vacuum. You can afford to carry 1 midfielder who’s a bit of a wildcard but we’ve a stack of them and we need more reliability and durability. In my opinion I’d have given Keita the riskier contract over Henderson but we made the decision and we live with it.

Offline Agent99

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13405 on: August 17, 2022, 07:49:02 pm »
The only benefit to not bringing a midfielder in is it allows Jones, Elliot and Carvalho to get more minutes. I am on the fence with Naby. He is a top player but not reliable enough. It is a shame about Nunes going to Wolves as I think he would have been a good addition. Jones, Elliot, Carvalho, Henderson, Thiago, Fabinho, Nunes, Bellingham (and most likely Milner :)) going in to next season would have been nice!

Offline killer-heels

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13406 on: August 17, 2022, 07:51:52 pm »
I really like Carvalho and have wanted for us to sign him but there is no way we should be playing him in midfield.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13407 on: August 17, 2022, 07:53:07 pm »
The only benefit to not bringing a midfielder in is it allows Jones, Elliot and Carvalho to get more minutes. I am on the fence with Naby. He is a top player but not reliable enough. It is a shame about Nunes going to Wolves as I think he would have been a good addition. Jones, Elliot, Carvalho, Henderson, Thiago, Fabinho, Nunes, Bellingham (and most likely Milner :)) going in to next season would have been nice!

That squad of midfielders is completely imbalanced.

Offline Classycara

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13408 on: August 17, 2022, 07:59:57 pm »
I like Keita but his situation doesn’t exist in a vacuum. You can afford to carry 1 midfielder who’s a bit of a wildcard but we’ve a stack of them and we need more reliability and durability. In my opinion I’d have given Keita the riskier contract over Henderson but we made the decision and we live with it.
Sensibly put, and I'd agree on the contract point too.

Based on what parameter exactly? I mean Henderson played 3.846 minutes to Naby's 2.083. So only in terms of actually being on the pitch, there's a massive difference. Performance level is a bit more subjective, but personally, I don't feel there was that much between them on that front either. Obviously, Henderson playing so much more, and at his age, meant his form would dip at some points of the season, but I rather his constant presence, even if he's not always at his best, than Naby's arguably more consistent form, but far patchier availability.
Based on their performances when playing. Your points are all fair, but someone bizarrely suggested in Keita's thread that he should feel thankful to be here given the number of sub par performances and despite the fact that literally applies to everyone of our players who've had a few of those, it's just odd to choose him as the midfielder to complain about sub par performances about when last season Jones, Hendo, Chamberlain and Milner all had more (and only Hendo was closer to 'ever present', as you rightly pointed out).

Important to remember Keita played in 23 league games last season, and was available as an unused sub in 6 others (that's available for 29 games, which is how many league games Fabinho played by the way). He missed 5 games around the month of November with a hamstring injury, and then missed only only one more league game in March with a knee issue.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13409 on: August 17, 2022, 08:03:14 pm »
I like Keita but his situation doesn’t exist in a vacuum. You can afford to carry 1 midfielder who’s a bit of a wildcard but we’ve a stack of them and we need more reliability and durability. In my opinion I’d have given Keita the riskier contract over Henderson but we made the decision and we live with it.

Completely agree.

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13410 on: August 17, 2022, 08:06:35 pm »
I get being available is good, but he played nearly half the league minutes of Fabinho. Based on his history here his body wouldn't hold up playing that much and so just being available isn't enough.

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13411 on: August 17, 2022, 08:13:25 pm »
I like Keita a lot but I don't have an issue if he's now decided he'd like a fresh start elsewhere.

I'd rather sell now if we could and recoup some money to go towards signing a midfielder this summer than let him him run down his contact and go for nothing next year given that Oxlade-Chamberlain is already leaving on a free as things stand. Doubt that will happen, though.

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13412 on: August 17, 2022, 08:13:50 pm »
Lot of retcon opinions on Keita I feel, especially when the stats are inevitably trotted out to counter eyeballs, but it does boil down to the fact he’s not consistently good enough to warrant a place in the first team. As I said before, he’s still here by default not on merit.
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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13413 on: August 17, 2022, 08:15:14 pm »
It's always fun to watch when a bucket of chum is emptied over the side.
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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13414 on: August 17, 2022, 08:21:12 pm »
Lot of retcon opinions on Keita I feel, especially when the stats are inevitably trotted out to counter eyeballs, but it does boil down to the fact he’s not consistently good enough to warrant a place in the first team. As I said before, he’s still here by default not on merit.

The guy started five champions league games, came on in another five, and was rested when we thrashed Porto for five in the groups. And you think he's "here by default" (and lets be honest, that's a meaningless platitude). Come on man, be reasonable - you seem to be blinded by some kind of dislike for his performances, so much so that you think people who rate the performances must be retconning over reality and not just sharing their views.

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13415 on: August 17, 2022, 08:25:47 pm »
Lot of retcon opinions on Keita I feel, especially when the stats are inevitably trotted out to counter eyeballs, but it does boil down to the fact he’s not consistently good enough to warrant a place in the first team. As I said before, he’s still here by default not on merit.
Thiago is injury prone yet he walks into our team when he's fit. Naby hasn't been able to break into our first 11 in 5(FIVE) seasons.

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13416 on: August 17, 2022, 08:27:11 pm »
…especially when the stats are inevitably trotted out to counter eyeballs…

The guy started five champions league games, came on in another five, and was rested when we thrashed Porto for five in the groups
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Offline Classycara

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13417 on: August 17, 2022, 08:31:57 pm »

Actually, I saw those appearances with my eyeballs - you're apparently suggesting your eyeballs disagree that he played those games? ;D

Not sure that quite fits (though still more coherent than him being 'here by default,not merit' while missing that the club were in discussion to extend his contract)

What actually happened, has Naby hurt you? Did he send you a picture of Gareth Barry?

Offline Lastrador

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13418 on: August 17, 2022, 08:34:31 pm »
Based on their performances when playing. Your points are all fair, but someone bizarrely suggested in Keita's thread that he should feel thankful to be here given the number of sub par performances and despite the fact that literally applies to everyone of our players who've had a few of those, it's just odd to choose him as the midfielder to complain about sub par performances about when last season Jones, Hendo, Chamberlain and Milner all had more (and only Hendo was closer to 'ever present', as you rightly pointed out).

Important to remember Keita played in 23 league games last season, and was available as an unused sub in 6 others (that's available for 29 games, which is how many league games Fabinho played by the way). He missed 5 games around the month of November with a hamstring injury, and then missed only only one more league game in March with a knee issue.
Fair enough. I still find it hard to fathom how can a player that played about half the minutes of another one, can be considered to have had a "better season". His level of performance would have to be really stellar for the minutes he did play. And while I think overall Keita performances were good last season I don't think they were THAT good.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2022, 08:39:59 pm by Lastrador »

Offline fallenhd

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13419 on: August 17, 2022, 09:04:18 pm »
Thiago is injury prone yet he walks into our team when he's fit. Naby hasn't been able to break into our first 11 in 5(FIVE) seasons.

He has multiple times, and the only reason he hasn't cemented his place is unfortunately thru injury. There have been many times when he started 3/4 games and was very good then good injured. The biggest stick ppl keep beating hime with is he hasn't lived up to expectations because he's not leipzig Keita. It seems like most of these people continue to have there head stuck in a vacuum. We're not going to get that because we DON'T play the say way. Keita played as a 10 most times of Leipzig and sometimes as a 6 in a two. He's being asked to play a totally different role at Liverpool. Klopp even said as much. It's the same reason we didnt get the Gini that played for Netherlands or even the Thiago that played for Bayern. The same Thiago that played as 6 for Bayern btw.

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13420 on: August 17, 2022, 09:05:39 pm »
He has multiple times, and the only reason he hasn't cemented his place is unfortunately thru injury. There have been many times when he started 3/4 games and was very good then good injured. The biggest stick ppl keep beating hime with is he hasn't lived up to expectations because he's not leipzig Keita. It seems like most of these people continue to have there head stuck in a vacuum. We're not going to get that because we DON'T play the say way. Keita played as a 10 most times of Leipzig and sometimes as a 6 in a two. He's being asked to play a totally different role at Liverpool. Klopp even said as much. It's the same reason we didnt get the Gini that played for Netherlands or even the Thiago that played for Bayern. The same Thiago that played as 6 for Bayern btw.

That begs a questions - why are we recruiting midfielders and not playing to their strengths?

Offline fallenhd

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13421 on: August 17, 2022, 09:07:06 pm »
Fair enough. I still find it hard to fathom how can a player that played about half the minutes of another one, can be considered to have had a "better season". His level of performance would have to be really stellar for the minutes he did play. And while I think overall Keita performances were good last season I don't think they were THAT good.

Simple if you actually think. But let me help. Simple solution for you to solve. If one striker plays 30 games and scores 5 goals and another 15 games but 20 goals. Which player had the better season?

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13422 on: August 17, 2022, 09:14:00 pm »
He has multiple times, and the only reason he hasn't cemented his place is unfortunately thru injury. There have been many times when he started 3/4 games and was very good then good injured. The biggest stick ppl keep beating hime with is he hasn't lived up to expectations because he's not leipzig Keita. It seems like most of these people continue to have there head stuck in a vacuum. We're not going to get that because we DON'T play the say way. Keita played as a 10 most times of Leipzig and sometimes as a 6 in a two. He's being asked to play a totally different role at Liverpool. Klopp even said as much. It's the same reason we didnt get the Gini that played for Netherlands or even the Thiago that played for Bayern. The same Thiago that played as 6 for Bayern btw.
He has never broken in mate because we all know our ideal 11 for big games and he has never featured in it. He was good last season but I won't be gutted if he left.

Offline fallenhd

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13423 on: August 17, 2022, 09:14:50 pm »
That begs a questions - why are we recruiting midfielders and not playing to their strengths?

I think this has alot to do with Klopp and his willingness to stick with 4-3-3 instead of adjusting when it could benefit us sometimes. I mean it has worked for us and Klopp would know more but there are diff times when an adjustment can be made. Like now for example we're short on MIDs and Henderson is not the best an 8. Slightly better as a 6. So instead of probably started milner who has been decent when played. Why not go 4-2-3-1 with Hendo and Fab as a two and Keita as a 10. Or if not fully fit Carvalho who played there all season for Fulham. Might've helped firstly Fulham with someone playing off Nunez and linking the play higher up instead of the bombardment of crosses we tried. But all that's just hindsight and Klopp will know more than me, that's for sure.

Offline fallenhd

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13424 on: August 17, 2022, 09:16:12 pm »
He has never broken in mate because we all know our ideal 11 for big games and he has never featured in it. He was good last season but I won't be gutted if he left.

Then you haven't watched much games if you don't know the periods I'm talking about or stuck in your ways. Which is totally fine, don't get me wrong. To each is own.

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13425 on: August 17, 2022, 09:19:28 pm »
He has never broken in mate because we all know our ideal 11 for big games and he has never featured in it. He was good last season but I won't be gutted if he left.
Bit needlessly hyperbolic and inaccurate this, isn't it?

Was the Nou Camp (as just one example) not a big game? The one where Keita was selected over Henderson (even with Gini playing up front)

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13426 on: August 17, 2022, 09:19:58 pm »
Then you haven't watched much games if you don't know the periods I'm talking about or stuck in your ways. Which is totally fine, don't get me wrong. To each is own.
If we had a CL final tomorrow, we all know the midfielders that'd start of we have a clean bill of health. Naby has never featured in that. If he ever into that trio, can you tell me the midfielder that he displaced?

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13427 on: August 17, 2022, 09:20:51 pm »
Bit needlessly hyperbolic and inaccurate this, isn't it?

Was the Nou Camp (as just one example) not a big game? The one where Keita was selected over Henderson (even with Gini playing up front)
That was because Bobby wasn't fit. No way he'd have benched Gini.

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13428 on: August 17, 2022, 09:24:56 pm »
Only just realised Gini is on loan at Roma this season. Would have loved to see him back with us .
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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13429 on: August 17, 2022, 09:25:06 pm »
That was because Bobby wasn't fit. No way he'd have benched Gini.
You've lost track of your point ;D He played instead of Henderson. In quite an important CL semi final no less.

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13430 on: August 17, 2022, 09:30:36 pm »
You've lost track of your point ;D He played instead of Henderson. In quite an important CL semi final no less.
Read it again. If Bobby was fit, would he have started over Gini? No. It's very simple.

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13431 on: August 17, 2022, 09:34:51 pm »
Read it again. If Bobby was fit, would he have started over Gini? No. It's very simple.
;D

You asked for examples of Keita ever making it into the first eleven over the trusted usual three. I gave you one. You lost track and started talking about Bobby. The point is Keita was preferred in midfield over Henderson

If Bobby was playing and Gini dropped into midfield, that doesn't change the order of preference over Henderson ;D


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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13432 on: August 17, 2022, 09:37:22 pm »
;D

You asked for examples of Keita ever making it into the first eleven over the trusted usual three. I gave you one. You lost track and started talking about Bobby. The point is Keita was preferred in midfield over Henderson

If Bobby was playing and Gini dropped into midfield, that doesn't change the order of preference over Henderson ;D
I was clearly referring to our first choice midfield with "a clean bill of health". If Bobby was fit, Gini would have played in midfield and Naby would have been on the bench. He hasn't been a first 11 player in 5 seasons.

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13433 on: August 17, 2022, 09:41:24 pm »
I was clearly referring to our first choice midfield with "a clean bill of health". If Bobby was fit, Gini would have played in midfield and Naby would have been on the bench. He hasn't been a first 11 player in 5 seasons.

So all the times he started all had injuries or other extenuating circumstances around them? 70 times this has happened? Your crazy....

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13434 on: August 17, 2022, 09:42:39 pm »
I thought this was the non Liverpool transfer thread.
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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13435 on: August 17, 2022, 09:42:58 pm »
So all the times he started all had injuries or other extenuating circumstances around them? 70 times this has happened? Your crazy....
No, YOU are crazy.

I've made a point backed up with a good reason but some idiots can only can respond with insults  :)
First 11 players can't start every game in a season. Thiago doesn't player every game, neither does Fab nor Hendo but they are our first choice.

In 18/19 and 19/20, it was Hendo Fab and Gini
From 20/21 onwards it has been Hendo, Fab and Thiago.

If we are playing are a CL final tomorrow AND we have a fully-fit squad, they will start but some thick idiots who can't make a logical counterargument will come with insult that only show how thick they are :)
« Last Edit: August 17, 2022, 09:49:46 pm by MonsLibpool »

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13436 on: August 17, 2022, 09:43:33 pm »
I thought this was the non Liverpool transfer thread.

The LFC one was locked when the ‘news’ about Naby broke.
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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13437 on: August 17, 2022, 09:47:16 pm »
I was clearly referring to our first choice midfield with "a clean bill of health". If Bobby was fit, Gini would have played in midfield and Naby would have been on the bench. He hasn't been a first 11 player in 5 seasons.
Ermmm, no sorry you aren't following your own logic. There was a "clean bill of health". There were five of our best midfielders all fit and ready to go!

Keita featured above Henderson (whether he was first or fourth choice we can't know,and doesn't matter). Henderson is clearly a player you include in your original criteria that "we all know our ideal 11 for big games", before you forgot the point you were trying to make, so it remains a valid example of something you said never happened before.

Offline Lastrador

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13438 on: August 17, 2022, 09:49:11 pm »
Simple if you actually think. But let me help. Simple solution for you to solve. If one striker plays 30 games and scores 5 goals and another 15 games but 20 goals. Which player had the better season?
Oh, so that was the striker equivalent of Keita's last season in midfield? The club must be mad then, it's like we had prime Lothar Matthaus in our books. The nerve to say something so utterly idiotic while being so smug. It reminds me of a Trump supporter calling people stupid.  ;D

The funniest thing is that you didn't even read by the next two sentences, where I indicated that his level of performance would had to been stellar to upset his lack of game time, and I didn't think it was. So yes, it seems like thinking or reading isn't a strength of yours either mate, so stop trying to lecture people.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2022, 09:57:01 pm by Lastrador »

Offline Henry Kissinger

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Re: THE NON-LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD
« Reply #13439 on: August 17, 2022, 09:50:28 pm »
The LFC one was locked when the ‘news’ about Naby broke.

Ok. Cheers.

I'm not directing this question at you fella,  but isn't there a Naby thread?
"What's passive smoking? There's passive lots of things. Like passive listening to shitheads. I have to put up with that every day. Are you going to ban people from talking crap? They give me a headache. Believe me, they're killing me. One day people's conversations on the street will do me in." Terry Hall