Author Topic: Naby Keita Watch  (Read 1712055 times)

Online newterp

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13520 on: August 15, 2022, 10:12:32 pm »
Back to not being trusted it seems - even given the situation

Offline Nick110581

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13521 on: August 15, 2022, 10:13:05 pm »
Where the fuck is he?

On the bench wasnít he ?
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Offline Bread

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13522 on: August 15, 2022, 10:13:45 pm »
I love Naby, but you gotta wonder about his future if he can't get off the bench in a game like this.

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13523 on: August 15, 2022, 10:14:20 pm »
Weíre incredibly careful with him these days. If heís not 100% physically, he doesnít play. And given the issues we have with injury prone players we simply canít be carrying him going forwards. Shouldnít get a new contract sadly. I really like him as a player so hope he does somewhere that works out for him.

Offline jonnypb

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13524 on: August 15, 2022, 10:15:01 pm »
Maybe wasnít 100% fit?

Offline Chris~

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13525 on: August 15, 2022, 10:15:35 pm »
Weíre incredibly careful with him these days. If heís not 100% physically, he doesnít play.
Shouldn't be on the bench then really. Like I get we've not all our senior midfielders available, but might as well have an academy player on who might come as opposed to someone who was never coming on

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13526 on: August 15, 2022, 10:20:10 pm »
Does very much feel like heís still a Liverpool player by default not merit.
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Offline OOS

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13527 on: August 15, 2022, 10:29:28 pm »
Does very much feel like heís still a Liverpool player by default not merit.

Reckon he starts against United. Have a feeling we will go Fab/ Naby/ Hendo if they are all fit.
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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13528 on: August 15, 2022, 10:39:26 pm »
Back to not being trusted it seems - even given the situation
He has never really been trusted, which makes it more annoying when we don't sign a CM

Offline JackWard33

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13529 on: August 15, 2022, 10:42:45 pm »
Back to not being trusted it seems - even given the situation

Its way more likely he's not fit.
People are so odd with this player - its constantly like last season didn't happen

Offline LallanaInPyjamas

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13530 on: August 15, 2022, 10:43:39 pm »
Its way more likely he's not fit.
People are so odd with this player - its constantly like last season didn't happen

He started 14 league games ffs Jack.

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13531 on: August 15, 2022, 10:53:28 pm »
He started 14 league games ffs Jack.

And some big CL games. And a cup semi vs City. If he werenít trusted you wouldnít have seen him play so many big games.

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13532 on: August 15, 2022, 10:58:09 pm »
What was the scenario we were going to bring him on for if not for a situation where we need a goal? 4-0 up and give him a little run out?

Offline LallanaInPyjamas

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13533 on: August 15, 2022, 11:08:40 pm »
And some big CL games. And a cup semi vs City. If he werenít trusted you wouldnít have seen him play so many big games.

We had one big CL game in reality and he didn't start that one despite Thiago having one fit leg.

I'm not saying he's completely untrusted, but his fan boys on here make it out like he was available all season, started every 3 or 4 days and was consistently world class.

He was available more often and he was generally better when he played. However, he was coming from an incredibly low base beforehand. We still need better than him and the same goes for the rest of our midfield at present.

Offline Haggis36

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13534 on: August 15, 2022, 11:34:05 pm »
Its way more likely he's not fit.
People are so odd with this player - its constantly like last season didn't happen

At this point, does it really matter?

I like Naby, I think fit and in-form he's an excellent midfielder. It's true he's missed a lot of games through injury. It's also probably true we sometimes don't play him when he is available because we are trying to manage his fitness. There have also been periods where he's been fit for longer periods of time and he's missed games because Klopp won't use him, for reasons unbeknownst to us (but interpreted as a lack of trust from the manager). Trying to categorise his missed games between those three scenarios is a bit of a waste of time though, because the end-result is the same - he doesn't get on the pitch often enough for us. The root cause is irrelevant unless he magically becomes more robust or Klopp wakes up and decides actually he is a key player.

In a vacuum I think his ability warrants keeping him around but we're already carrying about 3 or 4 too many unreliable midfielders. And to be honest, lots of assumptions that Naby will stay if offered a new contract. If I'm him, I'd probably be looking elsewhere. It's clear the physical demand on him in this team/league is too great for his body, and he's never managed to establish himself in what has at times been a pretty underwhelming (to be kind) midfield. I reckon he'd probably fancy himself the first midfielder on the team sheet at a CL level team in a slower league - he certainly has the ability.

Offline JackWard33

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13535 on: August 15, 2022, 11:34:42 pm »
We had one big CL game in reality and he didn't start that one despite Thiago having one fit leg.

I'm not saying he's completely untrusted, but his fan boys on here make it out like he was available all season, started every 3 or 4 days and was consistently world class.


Chill out with the fan boys bollocks - you've been anti him as a player for years
He was excellent when he played last season and we wanted to extend his contract this summer so you don't rate him but the club does
The idea he 'wasnt trusted' to play tonight given some of the games hes played for us is just stupid, he clearly isn't fit - unless the logic goes that he's trusted to come on in the CL final but not home vs Palace
There's a massive problem with his availability and honestly we should've moved one of him or Thiago on this summer if we were so stupidly set on not adding to the midfield this summer .. but the idea that the manager doesn't trust him to come on in a league game is just drivel

Offline JackWard33

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13536 on: August 15, 2022, 11:36:15 pm »

In a vacuum I think his ability warrants keeping him around but we're already carrying about 3 or 4 too many unreliable midfielders. And to be honest, lots of assumptions that Naby will stay if offered a new contract. If I'm him, I'd probably be looking elsewhere. It's clear the physical demand on him in this team/league is too great for his body, and he's never managed to establish himself in what has at times been a pretty underwhelming (to be kind) midfield. I reckon he'd probably fancy himself the first midfielder on the team sheet at a CL level team in a slower league - he certainly has the ability.

I agree

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13537 on: August 15, 2022, 11:38:44 pm »
Its way more likely he's not fit.
People are so odd with this player - its constantly like last season didn't happen

Come on Jack - you know I have been one of his biggest proponents.

But he simply is unreliable. The fact that we need to go into deep stats to show his value - constantly referring to "last season never happening" - which is 1 season out of 4 - is a bit of a misdirection as well.

He's not fast, he doesn't score goals consistently, he's not strong/robust, and as I noted - his availability is suspect.

He's a luxury player and would be a fine bench option - but we paid a steep fee for him and there is no case to be made that we got our money's worth.

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13538 on: August 15, 2022, 11:40:09 pm »
Chill out with the fan boys bollocks - you've been anti him as a player for years
He was excellent when he played last season and we wanted to extend his contract this summer so you don't rate him but the club does
The idea he 'wasnt trusted' to play tonight given some of the games hes played for us is just stupid, he clearly isn't fit - unless the logic goes that he's trusted to come on in the CL final but not home vs Palace
There's a massive problem with his availability and honestly we should've moved one of him or Thiago on this summer if we were so stupidly set on not adding to the midfield this summer .. but the idea that the manager doesn't trust him to come on in a league game is just drivel

That's the weirdest part - he was ill but actually trained a couple of sessions before Fulham. Presumably he trained all week and had extra days with the game being on a Monday.

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13539 on: August 15, 2022, 11:45:03 pm »
If we're coasting then Keita is the right man to bring on. He's not a player to bring on when Liverpool are chasing the game and need a goal. Carvalho was the right choice.
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Offline LallanaInPyjamas

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13540 on: August 15, 2022, 11:50:00 pm »
Chill out with the fan boys bollocks - you've been anti him as a player for years
He was excellent when he played last season and we wanted to extend his contract this summer so you don't rate him but the club does
The idea he 'wasnt trusted' to play tonight given some of the games hes played for us is just stupid, he clearly isn't fit - unless the logic goes that he's trusted to come on in the CL final but not home vs Palace
There's a massive problem with his availability and honestly we should've moved one of him or Thiago on this summer if we were so stupidly set on not adding to the midfield this summer .. but the idea that the manager doesn't trust him to come on in a league game is just drivel
I'm not arsed about tonight, given our over-cautiousness with Gomez I'm inclined to agree with you that he wasn't fully fit.

I'm just not having you and others building last season up to be something it wasn't. He improved but he still only started 14 league games. Whether that's down to fitness, illness or Klopp preferring other players, that's a very small number for a player who was apparently so excellent and the manager apparently loves.

FWIW based on our current options I want either him or Elliott in that RCM role but that says way more about our lack of options than it does him because I could think of a very large list of players I'd rather have in our squad than him. I can't believe him and Ox are still earning a wage for us to be frank.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2022, 11:51:31 pm by LallanaInPyjamas »

Offline JackWard33

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13541 on: August 15, 2022, 11:53:33 pm »


FWIW based on our current options I want either him or Elliott in that RCM role but that says way more about our lack of options than it does him because I could think of a very large list of players I'd rather have in our squad than him.

Fair enough. We differ on our view of how good he is when he plays.
As I posted we've mismanaged the situation. Why is he down to 12 months on his deal - its like we can't make a decision about him (or any midfielder) 

Offline LallanaInPyjamas

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13542 on: August 15, 2022, 11:57:44 pm »
Fair enough. We differ on our view of how good he is when he plays.

To flip your argument on its head, so does the manager, because he'd have started more than 14 games if he rated him as highly as you do. He came on nine times and I don't recall him actually being injured a great deal last season to be honest, obviously missed a few games at AFCON and maybe a knock or two.

As with most things in life the truth is somewhere in the middle - he does some things well, some things terribly, some things OK. Klopp isn't blind, he can see the lack of athleticism in our midfield and starting Keita isn't going to help that, the guy could get bypassed by Fellaini. Eze would have had him on toast rinse and repeat tonight. Equally, he'd have helped us progress the ball and connect to our forwards a lot better than Milner did as an example. It's a trade off whoever we play in there and that's a shitty situation to be in for a team so strong in other areas of the pitch.

« Last Edit: August 16, 2022, 12:00:09 am by LallanaInPyjamas »

Offline PEG2K

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13543 on: August 16, 2022, 12:05:58 am »
Shouldn't be on the bench then really. Like I get we've not all our senior midfielders available, but might as well have an academy player on who might come as opposed to someone who was never coming on
He would have come on, whether we were chasing the game or not, had Nunez not been sent off.

Keita's play is too risky for 10 men chasing the game situation. He attempts a lot of high risk passes, which would be fine normally when it's a 3 men midfield.


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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13544 on: August 16, 2022, 12:07:24 am »
Probably more for the transfer thread but between Keita and Ox you can at least point to our transfer business not being completely infallible. He just hasn't worked out and while injuries aren't anyones fault, for both players, if we're going to have Hendo and Thiago around for another 2 years then we need the other midfielders to always be available. I wouldn't re-sign him as things stand just as I wouldn't re-sign Ox. I guess he has the rest of the season to change this but if history is any indicator I'd be amazed if that changes.

Offline JasonF

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13545 on: August 16, 2022, 12:32:04 am »
Not the first time Keita has come in for stick for not playing in a game we didn't win. Bit weird.

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13546 on: August 16, 2022, 12:34:40 am »
Not the first time Keita has come in for stick for not playing in a game we didn't win. Bit weird.
The fact that he didn't come on, when you consider the injury situation, is damning.

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13547 on: August 16, 2022, 12:37:19 am »
Probably more for the transfer thread but between Keita and Ox you can at least point to our transfer business not being completely infallible. He just hasn't worked out and while injuries aren't anyones fault, for both players, if we're going to have Hendo and Thiago around for another 2 years then we need the other midfielders to always be available. I wouldn't re-sign him as things stand just as I wouldn't re-sign Ox. I guess he has the rest of the season to change this but if history is any indicator I'd be amazed if that changes.

re-signing him would also most likely mean a pay raise and a signing bonus. probably not worth it. further - he's 28 in February - so what kind of deal would we even contemplate? a 3 year deal maybe?

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13548 on: August 16, 2022, 12:39:24 am »
re-signing him would also most likely mean a pay raise and a signing bonus. probably not worth it. further - he's 28 in February - so what kind of deal would we even contemplate? a 3 year deal maybe?

We shouldnt give him a contract. I really like him but he isnt trusted that much and physically isnt reliable. We have to cull the squad of much of that unreliability, considering we are still going to be carrying others such as Thiago, Henderson, Gomez etc.

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13549 on: August 16, 2022, 12:42:07 am »
The fact that he didn't come on, when you consider the injury situation, is damning.

How much has he trained since his illness? What was the illness? Unless you know these things then I don't see how you can read too much into it.

I suppose it's Gomez' fault we conceded in the first half for not being fit enough to start too.

Offline LiverBirdKop

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13550 on: August 16, 2022, 02:16:57 am »
We shouldnt give him a contract. I really like him but he isnt trusted that much and physically isnt reliable. We have to cull the squad of much of that unreliability, considering we are still going to be carrying others such as Thiago, Henderson, Gomez etc.
I agree. I like him too. I defended him for what feels for years, but the amount of games we get out of him is not worth the money. That said, watch him become a super star playing for another club.  ;D

Offline istvan kozma

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13551 on: August 16, 2022, 02:54:49 am »
How much has he trained since his illness? What was the illness? Unless you know these things then I don't see how you can read too much into it.

I suppose it's Gomez' fault we conceded in the first half for not being fit enough to start too.
Gomez actually came on and contributed, Keita didn't, that's the point.

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13552 on: August 16, 2022, 06:30:07 am »
The more I think about it the more bizarre a new contract offer gets. I like him as a player but we canít be carrying players as likely to break down as him when we are already carrying Thiago, and if itís a choice between the 2 itís not a difficult one. Plus Klopp, whilst picking him in CL knockout games (which are always big) still preferred Henderson (?!) at RCM to him lots of the time, so he canít rate him that highly. So weíre offering a new contract to a player that is neither good enough to play consistently for us (according to Klopp) not fit enough to be available consistently. Itís a bizarre call.

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13553 on: August 16, 2022, 06:31:29 am »
Him and Thiago, very much luxury players. Doesn't matter how good you are if you can't be trusted to stay fit.

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13554 on: August 16, 2022, 06:33:00 am »
The more I think about it the more bizarre a new contract offer gets. I like him as a player but we canít be carrying players as likely to break down as him when we are already carrying Thiago, and if itís a choice between the 2 itís not a difficult one. Plus Klopp, whilst picking him in CL knockout games (which are always big) still preferred Henderson (?!) at RCM to him lots of the time, so he canít rate him that highly. So weíre offering a new contract to a player that is neither good enough to play consistently for us (according to Klopp) not fit enough to be available consistently. Itís a bizarre call.

To be fair we dont know what level of contract we are offering him. It may be one that reflects the relatively small amount of games he plays and is a big pay cut. But yeah, I wouldnt offer him a contract, the midfield needs a complete rework.

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13555 on: August 16, 2022, 08:21:01 am »
Pay as you play deal for you Naby lad.

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13556 on: August 16, 2022, 03:39:04 pm »
Crazy people in here itís the second game of the season...

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13557 on: August 16, 2022, 03:41:17 pm »
Crazy people in here itís the second game of the season...

Problem is i would like to know what Keita is going to do different than in the last 4 years.

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13558 on: August 16, 2022, 03:43:31 pm »
Keita, Ox should just leave at this point. The manager doesn't trust either, so i see there being no benefit of either being here. If Keita signs a new deal I imagine it's to protect his value.
Thank Fowler we're not getting Caulker

Offline Coolie High

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Re: Naby Keita Watch
« Reply #13559 on: August 16, 2022, 03:44:46 pm »
Problem is i would like to know what Keita is going to do different than in the last 4 years.

What he did last year was nearly good enough, especially in the big games, if we had more faith in him above Milner at times last season(Chelsea) I think we would have fared better overall.