Topic: Trent Alexander-Arnold

[Clayton Bigsby]

If we are not going to/cant afford to rest him can we get him some bloody consistent help on his side. So often isolated, he cant do the job of two men. He also needs to just patrol the right hand side, no more floating.

[So… Howard Philips]

But say he didn’t get injured?  That’s what I’m saying. It’s not like he came injured was it?  He played 24 league games for Aberdeen last year.

Just thought it was flawed logic. We’ve got a badly out of sorts player in Trent and no one to be back up for him. Apart from the player we’ve put out for 3/4 months

His injury was discovered during his initial fitness tests so you can assume he was injured when he arrived.

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2022/07/liverpool-must-be-careful-with-calvin-ramsay-injury-explains-klopp/

[Fromola]

Perhaps if we still had Neco Williams he could get a few games at RB and chuck Trent into midfield and see how that goes. Not that he got much of a look in anyway but Trent has been pretty much undroppable for years and now his level has dropped alarmingly, with a lot of mitigation in terms of tactics and the midfield, but there's no real alternative.

We can't play Milner there, we nearly lost a derby by making that sub, and we can forget about Ramsey for a while. It only really leaves Gomez and that's not an ongoing solution, he's someone who can fill in there here and there.

Sorting out the RCM role is more pressing along with simplifying Trent's game back.

[lfcred1976]

His injury was discovered during his initial fitness tests so you can assume he was injured when he arrived.

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2022/07/liverpool-must-be-careful-with-calvin-ramsay-injury-explains-klopp/

Also from here: https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/liverpool-setback-for-calvin-ramsay-as-medical-reveals-ex-aberdeen-youngster-has-injury-complication-3762587?amp

Unfortunately, Calvin is now not training with us in the moment, he has a little injury," Klopp explained. “Nobody knew, we found it when he did his medical check. Until today he has no problems.

Still think it’s piss poor to do what we did but hey ho, it’s happened now.

[So… Howard Philips]

Also from here: https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/liverpool-setback-for-calvin-ramsay-as-medical-reveals-ex-aberdeen-youngster-has-injury-complication-3762587?amp

Unfortunately, Calvin is now not training with us in the moment, he has a little injury," Klopp explained. “Nobody knew, we found it when he did his medical check. Until today he has no problems.

Still think it’s piss poor to do what we did but hey ho, it’s happened now.

I’m still at loss why it’s piss poor what we did?

Buy an 18 year old and discover he was carrying an injury or not play him after we’d discovered the injury?

[Samie]

Calvin is back in full training now. He and Kelleher will play a couple of Under 21 games to get their match fitness up.

[lfcred1976]

I’m still at loss why it’s piss poor what we did?

Buy an 18 year old and discover he was carrying an injury or not play him after we’d discovered the injury?

He was playing, they didn’t know about the injury and the use of the word “could”. Would be a different story if he arrived with something that was stopping him playing. Our medical team doesn’t fill me with confidence in all honesty so why not just see how he got on before deciding if he really needed an operation. But it’s been done now so……

[Dim Glas]

He was playing, they didn’t know about the injury and the use of the word “could”. Would be a different story if he arrived with something that was stopping him playing. Our medical team doesn’t fill me with confidence in all honesty so why not just see how he got on before deciding if he really needed an operation. But it’s been done now so……

Not as bad as your use of the phrase 'yet we put him out for several months’.

What is (or rather was) his injury by the way?

[Samie]

Something to do with his back. He wasn't injured but we discovered it in his medical and decided to act on it now rather not do anything and it causes the kid trouble later down the line.

[newterp]

Something to do with his back. He wasn't injured but we discovered it in his medical and decided to act on it now rather not do anything and it causes the kid trouble later down the line.

I wonder if it was a case of him not really being injured - but saying yeah it causes me discomfort but I play through it and then the club saying let's fix it now.

[killer-heels]

Is Calvin Ramsey our saviour now?

[newterp]

Is Calvin Ramsey our saviour now?

Let's not turn this into a religious debate.

You don't want the Roman Catholic Church coming down on us.

[killer-heels]

Let's not turn this into a religious debate.

You don't want the Roman Catholic Church coming down on us.

[lgvkarlos]

Trent needs to be taken out of the team for a while, for his and the teams good.
Don't think it would do us any harm having to get the ball down and play, we clearly have become to reliant on him. Trent has ridiculous amounts of talent he just needs to get his head back in the basics (goes for VVD and Fab aswell)

[LiamG]

Does anyone have heat maps for this season compared to last season?

[MH41]

I'm always wary of young players having to play too many games at an early age.
Trent is 23 and has already played close to 250 games for us.
He plays too regularly for my liking, and the worrying thing is that we don't appear to have an adequate replacement.
I'm not accepting that the young lad from Scotland was ever bought with a view to him being able to immediately be trusted to play first team football.
This makes our decision to both sell Neco Williams and to send out Conor Bradley on loan seem almost negligent.
I actually agree that the money we got for Neco is too much to turn down, and that it will be good experience for Conor Bradley to get playing regularly, but you cannot have a 17 year old untried lad as the alternative to TAA, particularly if he gets an injury.
Perhaps we see Gomez/Milner as the viable alternatives.

[ljycb]

I'm always wary of young players having to play too many games at an early age.
Trent is 23 and has already played close to 250 games for us.
He plays too regularly for my liking, and the worrying thing is that we don't appear to have an adequate replacement.
I'm not accepting that the young lad from Scotland was ever bought with a view to him being able to immediately be trusted to play first team football.
This makes our decision to both sell Neco Williams and to send out Conor Bradley on loan seem almost negligent.
I actually agree that the money we got for Neco is too much to turn down, and that it will be good experience for Conor Bradley to get playing regularly, but you cannot have a 17 year old untried lad as the alternative to TAA, particularly if he gets an injury.
Perhaps we see Gomez/Milner as the viable alternatives.

Gomez away to Newcastle in last season's run-in was an impeccable performance at right-back. I think the idea is Trent as first choice, Gomez and Milner covering when necessary, and then we see what happens with the new lad as he settles in.

Just on the amount of games Trent has played - it is a lot, but I'm sure there was some data in the summer which suggested that he hasn't played as many minutes as you would expect. It's important to remember that Trent himself only considered himself as definite first choice at the very end of 2018/19 (Gomez started the first leg of the semi-final as an example of how he was still being rotated), so it's not like we put him in the team once Clyne was injured in 2017 and he has played non-stop ever since.

[lollysportswasher]

Plenty of Midfielders starter their careers at RB then moved to the midfield. Trent is still young, he can easily adjust his new role.

[Nick110581]

Plenty of Midfielders starter their careers at RB then moved to the midfield. Trent is still young, he can easily adjust his new role.

Buts he playing RB for us.

He’s not starting in midfield.

[tubby]

Buts he playing RB for us.

He’s not starting in midfield.

The problem is that he doesn't play RB for us.  He plays in midfield, right wing and right back, all at the same time.  If our tactics are built around putting him into midfield positions, why not just play him in midfield instead.

[Greyfox]

I think part of the problem is that Trent isn't clear in his mind exactly what position he's playing - RB or Midfield.
Second goal Brighton - poor chest trap - gets caught and the ball is away with the Brighton player. Having lost the ball instinctively as a defender you'd think charge back to get the ball back, but it is almost as if Trent is ambling back/round as he expects the RB to recover the ball...and he'll wait for it to be recovered as an out ball on the edge of the 12 yards area.

But Trent is the RB...

[Jwils21]

He's under the microscope now as the Ingurland loving media are desperate to get talking points out of him and drive that TAA v James v Walker v Trippier debate.

[Haggis36]

I mean all 236 of his senior appearances have been at RB so not sure of the merit in this idea he suddenly doesn't know or has forgotten how to play that position, or doesn't understand the requirements of it.

Putting him in midfield isn't the answer, short-term or longer-term. Short-term, because we don't actually have any senior/experienced RBs, just a collection of players who can play there with varying levels of success. Long-term, we seem to be overlooking the fact that he was for a period of time arguably the best RB in the world, and that's not easy to replace.

Part of it us undoubtedly Trent being hung out to dry by the set-up and part of it is just poor individual form, but I'm not sure the current version of Trent is any more useful to us in midfield. You'd probably get better passing but I'm not sure we'd necessarily be much more solid - if Trent applied the same level of defensive effort in midfield as he has been in defence we'd still be easily targeted down that side, even if someone like Gomez was actually physically occupying a RB position. Doesn't solve our lack of pace/aggression in the middle, doesn't solve our tendency to lose second balls, doesn't solve our poor pressing, doesn't solve the issue that it's just far to easy to bypass our midfield and get a run at our defence (which is forcing them into poor decisions and mistakes that cost goals).

We'd be better served by telling him to adopt a more conventional RB role and see if he can play himself back into form.

[Judge Red]

The problem is that he doesn't play RB for us.  He plays in midfield, right wing and right back, all at the same time.  If our tactics are built around putting him into midfield positions, why not just play him in midfield instead.

Exactly and is why I’m not convinced swapping him out will suddenly change what’s happening. It’s the tactics for me which need altering or getting a more mobile midfield to help cover the space he leaves behind. The 3rd goal for them showed Fabinho treading in treacle trying to get back was painful and you could see it coming a mile off. If we keep the same tactics with the same personnel in midfield, it wouldn’t matter if we had a peak Lahm/cafu/alves or alberto there.

[Mighty_Red]

We'd be better served by telling him to adopt a more conventional RB role and see if he can play himself back into form.

Simply sticking to the right hand side would help a lot in terms of our attacking. I feel that Mo is playing a bit too wide and is sometimes isolated and having to take on 2 players too often without Trent to pull it back to.

I'm not sure Trent's runs into centre midfield are working for us, as we don't seem to take advantage of it. I noticed several times that he was free and in space just outside the pen area but we never passed to him (including Thiago). Surely the point of him getting into that position is to either receive the ball, or bring a defender out to deal with him creating space for others.

Regardless of his positioning in attack during the match (I don't mind him getting caught upfield) but most of his mistakes are coming when he already is in an RB position - poor clearances, the bad chest control on Sat and the slow reactions to events around him. These are all things he should be doing better at (though he isn't the only one).

I would want to start Gomez tomorrow, if only to get Trent mentally ready for Arsenal.

[killer-heels]

Buts he playing RB for us.

He’s not starting in midfield.

Trent ends up at right back more likely. The guy is making a run into the box (why? Since when has he shown the consistent ability to score goals in the box), playing in the number 10 role etc.

I actually thought one of our best bits of play in the first half is when he overlapped and crossed the ball in and it was just cleared before Carvalho got it.

[Andar]

Great bit of analysis on MNF.

So much for him to learn and improve.

[cdav]

Great bit of analysis on MNF.

So much for him to learn and improve.

The most obvious thing on all the clips that wasn't mentioned is that he has 2 or 3 pulling into his area and there is no support.

We've been a great defence previously with Trent in it- the system has changed and its all falling apart at the moment as the spaces are too big.

[Eeyore]

The problem is that he doesn't play RB for us.  He plays in midfield, right wing and right back, all at the same time.  If our tactics are built around putting him into midfield positions, why not just play him in midfield instead.

Our tactics are about the RH three rotating positions. One defending, one providing width and the third finding room in the half spaces.

It worked really well at times. Unfortunately Hendo has declined physically and Elliott hasn't really got back to the level he was at pre injury.

I think Trent is tucking in too much because he isn't confident enough in the cover if he goes high and wide like he used to.

[paddysour]

Our tactics are about the RH three rotating positions. One defending, one providing width and the third finding room in the half spaces.

It worked really well at times. Unfortunately Hendo has declined physically and Elliott hasn't really got back to the level he was at pre injury.

I think Trent is tucking in too much because he isn't confident enough in the cover if he goes high and wide like he used to.

Sam McGuire posted a screenshot on twitter with our entire right side in the middle. Trent even marginally left side. It really seems like something we can easily adjust and become instantly more solid.

[CraigDS]

Our tactics are about the RH three rotating positions. One defending, one providing width and the third finding room in the half spaces.

It worked really well at times. Unfortunately Hendo has declined physically and Elliott hasn't really got back to the level he was at pre injury.

I think Trent is tucking in too much because he isn't confident enough in the cover if he goes high and wide like he used to.

Yeah got to agree with this, and I'd throw Fabinho into the convo too. Last season he'd provide a lot of extra cover for that side and his form this season has seen this being done less / not as effectively.

[El Lobo]

Sam McGuire posted a screenshot on twitter with our entire right side in the middle. Trent even marginally left side. It really seems like something we can easily adjust and become instantly more solid.

It’s odd and there’s no way it’s not by design

[tubby]

Would want to see the passage of play that put Trent in that position.

[paddysour]

It’s odd and there’s no way it’s not by design

Exactly, just go back to how we played before and the problem is fixed surely?

[paddysour]

Would want to see the passage of play that put Trent in that position.

The article is behind a paywall so I can't see the rest of it, but I was pointing this out to my brother while we watched. Trent was in the 10 position very often.

[tubby]

The article is behind a paywall so I can't see the rest of it, but I was pointing this out to my brother while we watched. Trent was in the 10 position very often.

Yeah remember him popping up there a couple of times, is that him as the furthest forward in the screenshot, or is that Salah?

[jillcwhomever]

Yeah got to agree with this, and I'd throw Fabinho into the convo too. Last season he'd provide a lot of extra cover for that side and his form this season has seen this being done less / not as effectively.

Bloody hell, Craig and Al agreeing on something. Is this a first? 

[paddysour]

Yeah remember him popping up there a couple of times, is that him as the furthest forward in the screenshot, or is that Salah?

In that shot he's the furthest back, LCM basically

[tubby]

In that shot he's the furthest back, LCM basically

Yeah thought so, that makes more sense.  He might've had to come across to help out.

Or he's just gone wandering.

[CraigDS]

Bloody hell, Craig and Al agreeing on something. Is this a first? 

I know, I felt the earth tremble a bit when I hit post.