Topic: Bird watch

[Armand9]

no worries mate, you're welcome

i must admit i hold back at times (tho it doesn't look like it  ) cos it could come across as hogging it and spouting off and i dont want to be 'that' dickhead

[reddebs]

We've got swallows lining up on the electric wires ready for their winter migration 😯

[Crosby Nick]

We've got swallows lining up on the electric wires ready for their winter migration 😯

How do they not get electrocuted?

My grandad told me that as long as they had both feet in the wires it would flow through them and they’d be ok. If they just had one foot on the wire they’d be toast.

[reddebs]

How do they not get electrocuted?

My grandad told me that as long as they had both feet in the wires it would flow through them and they’d be ok. If they just had one foot on the wire they’d be toast.

Not sure if I'm being whooshed but the wires aren't live 👍

[jillc]

We've got swallows lining up on the electric wires ready for their winter migration 😯

I had a row of goldfinches waiting to get on the feeder on the wires. 

[reddebs]

I had a row of goldfinches waiting to get on the feeder on the wires. 

Funnily enough Jill we've had a flock of gold finches arrived today too.

Now these are a weird bird as some stay for the winter and some migrate 🤷

[Armand9]

you've picked up on something there that is actually common, and really is a regular part of the lives of our 'local' birds in that some species migrate out, while that same species from the continent migrate in

robin is a classic example - birds from the continent (typically northern regions) migrate to the uk and spend the winter here, often replacing the local robins that have actually gone further south (whether in the uk or beyond). This is the case for many of our common birds, it doesn't mean all our local birds move out but beyond birds we regonise as migrants for obvious reasons like swifts, there's a whole host of other migrations going on.

The migrations i've cited there refer to climate migrations, that is moving from colder to warmer clines etc. Other migrations are habitat related, where birds move from inland sites to coastal sites and vice versa. What they all have in common, as far as i can see, it's all related to food sources - tho that doesn't explain the whole picture of what's going on. Clearly if robins from the continent move to the uk from colder climes and survive, our local robins could've stayed and survived. Do our birds move cos now there are too many of their own kind in one area - which brings you back to food availability as a core reason.

The other strong and necessary reason is of course breeding - divers winter around coastlines but move inland in spring to lochs and such like to breed, they can't breed on the ocean  and many species will have this primary driving force for migration, nesting needs, from local to global movers.

For me, one of the most fascinating aspects of all this is those familiar species where we dont even know where they winter. There are species that we are aware of because of their breeding locations but once that's done we have no idea where they live outside of that period. The Spectacled Eider was one such bird, a high arctic species of duck, we've been aware of them for forever but only recently have confirmed where they exist outside of that period and even that is not close to knowing the whole picture. As one source says: 'Winter range is still very poorly known; thought to be around southern edge of pack ice far out in Bering Sea, but there is still little direct evidence'

Even when you think about our common coastline birds like puffins, guillemots and kittiwakes - ask an ornithologist where they winter, out at sea is the answer you'll get. In other words we dont know beyond assuming 'out there' somewhere in the north sea. With modern geolocators we are now collecting some data, and like with every species we attach one of these things to, we find out it's not quite as we imagined.

This was done with puffins from the isle of may. And their findings? 'The quarter of a million puffins that breed in northeast Britain head out to sea during the winter and we previously thought that they stayed in the North Sea. We now know that some make long trips into the Atlantic during winter.'

And for completeness, while i've focused on birds known in breeding locales but not in winter locales, the reverse is maybe even more dominant, in species we know very well from winter grounds but are totally in the dark on where they breed or at best only have some idea (many of the very common waders we see on our shorelines in winter are in this category)

The more you know the less you know, is what i concluded with birds many decades ago, every question i answer through reading and personal observation throws up many more.

A quote that has always stuck with me from my youth was from an oceanic scientist that studied clown fish, having done that for 30 years he said 'i feel i've just scratched the surface'

Now im an old bugger i know exactly what he meant, kind of depressing but kind of inspiring at the same time

[reddebs]

I know the BTO were getting involved in more GPS type data collection when I was ringing years ago and I know that some migration habits are adjusting due to climate change.

I can't remember the bird now but it was one of the arctic migrants where they were having to create breeding platforms for them off the north coast of Scotland as the sea was getting too warm for their food further south.

[Armand9]

when you look at the egret situation it seems intuitive to attribute their colonisation to warmer temps in the uk, as it does for the increase in wintering chiffchaff etc

then there is clinal shifts in some species, like willow warbler not fairing particularly well in lower altitudes we're used to having them in but increasing in higher altitudes where the temp is a degree lower during breeding season

what it all says for climate change and birds, i really dont know, things i look at seems totally intuitive and good indicators of its impact (like the stuff above), other things doesn't seem to tell that story at all - so yeah, im unsure at best 

i dont recall, and maybe never even knew, about the offshore platforms in scotland - the fact you cite it was food based (as opposed to nesting habitat), im scratching my head on what species could possibly benefit from those few extra miles to feeding grounds (unless it was waaaaaay out in the north atlantic).

[reddebs]

It was something to do with the waters being too warm for their food supply so they'd moved further north meaning the birds had further to travel to catch them.

Terms possibly?  I remember them being smallish and white.

I don't even know if they did do the platforms or whether it was a possibility in the future if the situation got worse.

[BER]

We've got swallows lining up on the electric wires ready for their winter migration

No sign of them this year for me for the first time. I'd often sit out and watch them do their thing around sunset but it's been silence all summer.. 

[Armand9]

It was something to do with the waters being too warm for their food supply so they'd moved further north meaning the birds had further to travel to catch them.

Terms possibly?  I remember them being smallish and white.

I don't even know if they did do the platforms or whether it was a possibility in the future if the situation got worse.

I know there has been a lot of talk about seabirds and having to go further and further to catch their food, eg puffins and sandeels (so auks in general i'd imagine), also gannets have been cited iirc.

The platforms would make sense for terns in that you can build one easy enough they'll use them and have been done previously with local lakes (to get migrating common terns to stop and breed etc). I'm not aware of any being used or suggested at coastal sites (doesn't mean it hasn't happened, of course), on islands and coastal sites usually it's more about providing nesting enhancements - little wooden boxes for roseate terns is a prime example.

So it totally makes sense from that perspective (you can hardly build cliffs for nesting auks and gannets), and your description sounds like terns. I'm just struggling to see how it would be implemented to make a significant difference to their foraging per se, a few miles offshore here or there isn't going to do anything.

Arctic tern migration is famous for it's incredible undertaking - 25,000 miles every year as the crow flies (antarctica to the arctic and back) but as they dont really go in a straight line, it will average out as much more (44,000 miles a year for those that breed furthest north - greenland), one bird being tracked migrated 56,000 miles in one year, yikes. It's the longest migration of any animal species on Earth.

So yes, that is the most spectacular migration of any tern (or animal for that matter) but they all put in a fair whack. So unless it was some kind of hope to encourage birds to relocate to an area of some significance, mileage wise, from their current location (so presumably closer to fishing areas) i have no idea how it would work otherwise.

hmm, i'll ask my mates if any of them had ever heard about proposed building of platforms for seabirds to cut down the distance to their food, maybe they'll know something. It's bugging me now 

[liverbloke]

there was a swan goose on the cut today - by the bungalows near the iron bridge that leads to maghull station
it's a visitor that should be mongolia/china way - it usually turns up at lunt

and then i spotted a willow warbler - primaries looked too long for a chiffy as well as leg colour but that's not always a given

then tried to photograph the swallows - took friggin loads but this one wasn't too bad

[reddebs]

I know there has been a lot of talk about seabirds and having to go further and further to catch their food, eg puffins and sandeels (so auks in general i'd imagine), also gannets have been cited iirc.

The platforms would make sense for terns in that you can build one easy enough they'll use them and have been done previously with local lakes (to get migrating common terns to stop and breed etc). I'm not aware of any being used or suggested at coastal sites (doesn't mean it hasn't happened, of course), on islands and coastal sites usually it's more about providing nesting enhancements - little wooden boxes for roseate terns is a prime example.

So it totally makes sense from that perspective (you can hardly build cliffs for nesting auks and gannets), and your description sounds like terns. I'm just struggling to see how it would be implemented to make a significant difference to their foraging per se, a few miles offshore here or there isn't going to do anything.

Arctic tern migration is famous for it's incredible undertaking - 25,000 miles every year as the crow flies (antarctica to the arctic and back) but as they dont really go in a straight line, it will average out as much more (44,000 miles a year for those that breed furthest north - greenland), one bird being tracked migrated 56,000 miles in one year, yikes. It's the longest migration of any animal species on Earth.

So yes, that is the most spectacular migration of any tern (or animal for that matter) but they all put in a fair whack. So unless it was some kind of hope to encourage birds to relocate to an area of some significance, mileage wise, from their current location (so presumably closer to fishing areas) i have no idea how it would work otherwise.

hmm, i'll ask my mates if any of them had ever heard about proposed building of platforms for seabirds to cut down the distance to their food, maybe they'll know something. It's bugging me now 

Thanks, I'd like to know too now so I'm not imagining it 😂

[reddebs]

there was a swan goose on the cut today - by the bungalows near the iron bridge that leads to maghull station
it's a visitor that should be mongolia/china way - it usually turns up at lunt

and then i spotted a willow warbler - primaries looked too long for a chiffy as well as leg colour but that's not always a given

then tried to photograph the swallows - took friggin loads but this one wasn't too bad

They're beauties mate 👍

[Yorkykopite]

They're beauties mate 👍

Yes, superb work.

[John C]

there was a swan goose on the cut today -

I love those pictures mate, absolutely love them. Thanks for posting.

[Armand9]

there was a swan goose on the cut today - by the bungalows near the iron bridge that leads to maghull station
it's a visitor that should be mongolia/china way - it usually turns up at lunt

and then i spotted a willow warbler - primaries looked too long for a chiffy as well as leg colour but that's not always a given

then tried to photograph the swallows - took friggin loads but this one wasn't too bad

nice shots mate, especially getting a swallow in flight, i imagine you rattled off a fair few 

the swan goose as you rightly say is originally an eastern goose, it's been heavily domesticated for a very long time and the birds we see are feral birds out of domesticated collections and so we see them turn up at parks etc, typically where other geese hang out

it is indeed a willow warbler - a juvenile - for the reasons you cite (tho we can't see the primary projection properly in the shot but obviously you did) and the facial character and bill also point to willow warbler (as crazy as it sounds, flight views can nail it if you can't get a good enough view on a perched/roving bird, being longer winged their flight is quite dashing, almost spotted flycatcher like, whereas chiffchaffs are more blue tit like in being kinda 'fluffy' flight)

reddebs - i've asked around mate and googled shit, cant find anything on it yet and it didn't ring a bell with any of my mates either

[reddebs]

nice shots mate, especially getting a swallow in flight, i imagine you rattled off a fair few 

the swan goose as you rightly say is originally an eastern goose, it's been heavily domesticated for a very long time and the birds we see are feral birds out of domesticated collections and so we see them turn up at parks etc, typically where other geese hang out

it is indeed a willow warbler - a juvenile - for the reasons you cite (tho we can't see the primary projection properly in the shot but obviously you did) and the facial character and bill also point to willow warbler (as crazy as it sounds, flight views can nail it if you can't get a good enough view on a perched/roving bird, being longer winged their flight is quite dashing, almost spotted flycatcher like, whereas chiffchaffs are more blue tit like in being kinda 'fluffy' flight)

reddebs - i've asked around mate and googled shit, cant find anything on it yet and it didn't ring a bell with any of my mates either

I probably dreamt it then mate but thanks for researching it anyway 👍

[jillc]

Some fantastic photographs there. I am going to go birdwatching tomorrow now there is a spare Saturday.

[reddebs]

We've had another huge flock of goldfinches in and around the garden again today and I woke up to two ravens in the garden.

One was in what we use as a feeder which is a disused stone fountain that's probably half a meter in diameter and it nearly filled it 😯

I've seen them flying over before but never realised just how big they are.

[Armand9]

hadn't been able to get to the patch for the last few days and seems we've had a clear out, with the majority of good waders having moved on

no terns, no common scoter, thought we might get some

but raptors saved the day with 8 species again today, including two adult male ospreys fishing on and off the whole day with some exceptional views with one of birds fishing right by the hide, was pretty awesome (2 red kites, 2 marsh harriers, 3 sparrowhawks, kestrel, 3 hobbies, 2 peregrine and shitload of buzzards making up the rest)

and a mate of mine found a pectoral sandpiper in the afternoon (an american wader), so that was sweet

however, bird of the day was in kent
https://twitter.com/jarpartridge/status/1568912318188109825?cxt=HHwWgoCylZzc8sUrAAAA

now that is a wowser!

[Armand9]

dont know what he hell is going on with ospreys this autumn - we've had at least 13 different individuals at the lake over the last 24 days with the majority being over the last week!

we get them on migration but if we got that many over a year we'd think we were doing well.

The breakdown so far is:
1 adult female
8 adult males
1 juvenile male
3 adults but sex couldn't be determined due to distance as the birds migrated straight thru, not allowing good enough views tho clearly adults

on wednesday i had 5 different birds over the day and today i had 5 different birds again, with three of them being different birds to the ones on wednesday, it's fucking crazy. we've had up to 3 fishing at the same time sending the rest of the birds nuts, with waders, ducks and gulls all over the lake going up continually. add in up to 3 peregrines and two marsh harriers along with all the other raptors and you can imagine the non predators are super pissed at the moment 

the most bizarre thing of all tho is that an adult bird was seen feeding a juvenile at the lake. doesn't sound particularly odd but when you consider that all ospreys migrate independently, regardless of age, sex or family ties, it's something i've never even heard of before let alone seen (i didn't see it, tho was reliably informed of the event).

i've no idea what's going on but have tons of questions, tho i suspect the answer is that the juvenile coerced a non-parent adult to feed it - something i've seen gulls do, you'll see a juvenile begging a group of adults, not necessarily even of its own species, hoping for a handout.

that's my best guess, i've trolled the internet for similar occurences in osprey to no avail and it's not noted in any of the literature i have, which includes very detailed studies of osprey breeding and migration, it's not even hinted at anywhere, not that i can find anyway.

[John C]

Army, that's probably the most complicated and complex, yet brilliantly inspiring post we've had in this thread mate

Up he fucking Ospreys.

Keep it coming mate.

[Armand9]

lol sorry i realise looking at it now one of the paragraphs is a bit confusing

so

on weds i saw a number of ospreys, by looking closely at the plumage (mostly the moult**) i was able to deduce the observations involved 5 different birds

on friday, similar scenario, now two of the birds i recognised from weds
so we have two ospreys - stay with me here 

i aslo saw a juvenile bird (the only juvenile we have atm), so that makes 3 birds

then in the afternoon among the many osprey sightings we had a bird with a clear breastband (none of the others do), so that was the 4th bird and then a very similar bird but with a reduced breastband showed up making it the 5th bird (a mate was taking photos and we compared the two to make sure they were different birds as they were very similar)

sooooooooooo, i had two days with 5 different birds logged but they weren't the same five birds on friday as weds (tho two were) - those aren't the sightings of all the ospreys we've had just a breakdown of the two 5-bird days (the previous breakdown bit in the original post listed all the birds to date)

i hope that's more clear???

** imagine you see a buzzard fly past and it has clear holes in its wings, hour later buzzard again flys past you think 'oh here it is again' but it has no holes in the wings - clearly not the same bird even if the plumage looks similar

so by looking at the state of the moult (wear and feather replacement) you can often seperate individuals, tho not all the time and you need a decent view of the birds in question



i've deliberately picked a somewhat distant shot to show it can be blindingly obvious in some cases - so forget the different plumage look of these birds (lower is female, upper is male), concentrate on the back edge of the wings (what we call the trailing edge)

on the upper bird there a two very clear notches towards the end of the wing (one on each wing) that the lower bird doesn't have, so even in silhouette you'd know this isn't the same bird if you saw them apart

that's the kind of thing we're doing, combined with plumage features, bird's age and sex

it's not always possible by any means, as i said the three that banged thru quickly at distance were easy enough to see were adults but sexing them wasn't possible but im confident they didn't return to the lake cos they were really motoring as they were in migration mode (they actually fly very different than a bird staying around the lake)

for any interested in the subject there's a very informative and educational podcast type thing by the guys who have been tracking them for the past 20ish years, it's really good showing individual histories, adaptation as they age, flight paths, their wintering grounds etc (much more interesting than me and the fucking moult of various birds ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXWgoSF-Yrk

as a teaser, there's the case of a uk juvenile osprey and its first migration that goes wrong and he misses the north coast of spain (his target) and continues heading out over the atlantic, to its apparent demise after a haul of 1302km in continuous flight for 33 hours - does he make it?

there's only one way to find out......... Flight!

[liverbloke]

i have yet to see an opsrey in  the wild though we do get them at frodsham and along other parts of the wirral (but i'm over on this side) and they can fly over parts of seaforth, formby, southport (marshside) and have been seen inland at lunt reserve

would love to see one of those magnificent birds

a few birders have told me that there are 'special' places in the north west where they can be seen regularly so i'll have to try and get my act together one day and go for a day out to see them

[reddebs]

There's been several sightings this summer of red kites on Anglesey although I've not seen any yet.

It seems now they're well and truly established across the southern half of the country they're quickly moving northwards.

On the other side of the spectrum though is the devastation of avian flu on the wild bird population with seasbirds being effected particularly badly 😔

Thousands of dead birds have been collected off the islands round North Wales where they breed.

[jillc]

The RSPB have taken their gloves off with this Government due to the attack on the Habitat Regulations in the mini-budget, which currently protect birds and wildlife. I thought it fair to put the whole texts on, so people can make their own minds up. I understand some people will say we must build more houses (that is true), but the way they are going about it this way, means that virtually no wildlife areas will get even basic protection. It maybe that they are doing this to see if there is a big reaction, the RSPB rarely gets this angry but the fact that it has this time, shows how much they fear this new situation. Please read and if you agree contact your local MP. Thanks.

RSPB England 🌍
@RSPBEngland
⚠️😡Make no mistake, we are angry. This Government has today launched an attack on nature. We don’t use the words that follow lightly. We are entering uncharted territory.  Please read this thread. 1/13

As of today, from Cornwall to Cumbria, Norfolk to Nottingham wildlife is facing one of the greatest threats it’s faced in decades.  2/13

What the Government has proposed in today’s mini-budget on top of yesterday’s announcements potentially tears up the most fundamental legal protections our remaining wildlife has.  3/13

If they carry out their plans nowhere will be safe. This map shows legally protected areas in purple and orange (the SACs and SPAs) mapped on to districts, in green, that want investment zones.  Places where anything could be built anywhere. And these are just the start. 4/13

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdW0g08WIAEvIUC?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

“Releasing more land” they call it  5/13


HM Treasury
@hmtreasury
The government has agreement in principle with 38 areas to establish tax-cutting Investment Zones which will drive growth & unlock housing development. 

 Work will also begin with Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland to agree zones in these locations

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdU4Qc-XkAAnkLH?format=jpg&name=large

And it doesn’t stop there – the new Retained EU Laws Bill could see the end of basic protections known as the Habitat Regulations. Laws that protect our birds and animals, everywhere from forests to our coasts.  6/13

Where you live, the wildlife and places you love, from the shires to the cities – all under threat from bulldozers, from concrete.  7/13

For now, this is focussed on England, but the intent is clear for this to extend across the UK.  8/13

And the real tragedy is this: the utter lack of understanding by ministers that healthy nature underpins a healthy society and a healthy economy. Have they even read their own report?  9/13

https://t.co/sLgvAmizzf

We cannot let this happen. And now more than ever nature needs your help. We need to make it abundantly clear that we will not stand for this.  10/13

We are currently planning a mass mobilisation of our members and supporters. More news on this next week.  11/13

But right now, we have one simple ask: tell your MP how you feel. Impress on them that the Government doesn’t do this in your name.  12/13

If ever nature has needed you, it’s now.  13/13

[Red-Soldier]

The RSPB have taken their gloves off with this Government due to the attack on the Habitat Regulations in the mini-budget, which currently protect birds and wildlife. I thought it fair to put the whole texts on, so people can make their own minds up. I understand some people will say we must build more houses (that is true), but the way they are going about it this way, means that virtually no wildlife areas will get even basic protection. It maybe that they are doing this to see if there is a big reaction, the RSPB rarely gets this angry but the fact that it has this time, shows how much they fear this new situation. Please read and if you agree contact your local MP. Thanks.

RSPB England 🌍
@RSPBEngland
⚠️😡Make no mistake, we are angry. This Government has today launched an attack on nature. We don’t use the words that follow lightly. We are entering uncharted territory.  Please read this thread. 1/13

As of today, from Cornwall to Cumbria, Norfolk to Nottingham wildlife is facing one of the greatest threats it’s faced in decades.  2/13

What the Government has proposed in today’s mini-budget on top of yesterday’s announcements potentially tears up the most fundamental legal protections our remaining wildlife has.  3/13

If they carry out their plans nowhere will be safe. This map shows legally protected areas in purple and orange (the SACs and SPAs) mapped on to districts, in green, that want investment zones.  Places where anything could be built anywhere. And these are just the start. 4/13

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdW0g08WIAEvIUC?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

“Releasing more land” they call it  5/13


HM Treasury
@hmtreasury
The government has agreement in principle with 38 areas to establish tax-cutting Investment Zones which will drive growth & unlock housing development. 

 Work will also begin with Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland to agree zones in these locations

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdU4Qc-XkAAnkLH?format=jpg&name=large

And it doesn’t stop there – the new Retained EU Laws Bill could see the end of basic protections known as the Habitat Regulations. Laws that protect our birds and animals, everywhere from forests to our coasts.  6/13

Where you live, the wildlife and places you love, from the shires to the cities – all under threat from bulldozers, from concrete.  7/13

For now, this is focussed on England, but the intent is clear for this to extend across the UK.  8/13

And the real tragedy is this: the utter lack of understanding by ministers that healthy nature underpins a healthy society and a healthy economy. Have they even read their own report?  9/13

https://t.co/sLgvAmizzf

We cannot let this happen. And now more than ever nature needs your help. We need to make it abundantly clear that we will not stand for this.  10/13

We are currently planning a mass mobilisation of our members and supporters. More news on this next week.  11/13

But right now, we have one simple ask: tell your MP how you feel. Impress on them that the Government doesn’t do this in your name.  12/13

If ever nature has needed you, it’s now.  13/13

They basically want to get rid of the Habitat and Birds Directive.  They are the two, most powerful pieces of legislation that we have protecting nature.

They are the EU laws that allowed us to designate SAcs (Special Areas of Conservation) and SPAs (special Bird Areas).

[jillc]

They basically want to get rid of the Habitat and Birds Directive.  They are the two, most powerful pieces of legislation that we have protecting nature.

They are the EU laws that allowed us to designate SAcs (Special Areas of Conservation) and SPAs (special Bird Areas).

Yes, that is the long and short of it. I always knew there would come a time when the Tories attempted to do this, but I hope enough people will oppose it, the wildlife trusts alone have thousands of supporters and members put some pressure on them and watch them crumble.

[Red-Soldier]

Yes, that is the long and short of it. I always knew there would come a time when the Tories attempted to do this, but I hope enough people will oppose it, the wildlife trusts alone have thousands of supporters and members put some pressure on them and watch them crumble.

The Wildlife Trusts have over 800,000 members I think (including me  ).

[jillc]

The Wildlife Trusts have over 800,000 members I think (including me  ).

There are a 1.1 million RSPB members as well, that would be quite a number marching on Truss.

[duvva 💅]

The National Trust are joining the RSPB and Wildlife Trusts in this, not sure how many members they have

[jillc]

The National Trust are joining the RSPB and Wildlife Trusts in this, not sure how many members they have

There are 6 million members in the National Trust. Overall, in these three groups it outnumbers the members in the Tory party, they are not the groups to bugger off.

[reddebs]

Looks like they've picked on the wrong group of pensioners 😊

[liverbloke]

so another direct result of brexit it seems

[jillc]

so another direct result of brexit it seems

Yes, a lot of the legislation protecting our wildlife was from the EU. It was only a matter of time before the Tories went for the power grab. I think this is why the RSPB and other conservation groups are getting more upfront. We are not in a good position at the moment, read the tweet below. Scandalous really and yet another example of how the Tories have wrecked the country.

Nik_Mitchell_Wild🐦 🦋 🐝 🍃
@mitchellsnik
 ·
2h
Replying to @WWF_UK_Politics and @DefraGovUK
UK is ‘among the most nature-depleted countries in the world’
out of 218 countries in the world the UK ranked 189th

[liverbloke]

Yes, a lot of the legislation protecting our wildlife was from the EU. It was only a matter of time before the Tories went for the power grab. I think this is why the RSPB and other conservation groups are getting more upfront. We are not in a good position at the moment, read the tweet below. Scandalous really and yet another example of how the Tories have wrecked the country.

Nik_Mitchell_Wild🐦 🦋 🐝 🍃
@mitchellsnik
 ·
2h
Replying to @WWF_UK_Politics and @DefraGovUK
UK is ‘among the most nature-depleted countries in the world’
out of 218 countries in the world the UK ranked 189th

there's a bigger problem too because the majority of people don't even notice wild life

they don't stop and stare - the only thing they care about are playful kittens on their phones and that's about as much wild life the seem to show any affection for

'we' are a nation of dog lovers (apparently) but when it comes to other animals we don't seem to give a shit

adverts show dogs and cats in poor health or who have been mistreated by the dregs of society but they don't show habitat loss or the underhand way building companies flout the 'laws'

when i see people walking in the park they don't hear the willow warblers, they don't hear the blue tits or the chiffchaffs - the only birds they see are the mallards down at the lake

but wildlife encompasses everything, all animals including insects, plants, fungi etc

people will watch a wildlife programme and then go and sit in their back gardens with their artificial grass, their paved-over areas and their decking with the usual man-cave built on it, no bird feeders 'coz they attract rats' and no trees or bushes for them to nest in

kids go to the countryside on school trips and bemoan that 'there's nothing to do' and 'trees are boring'

when another animal goes extinct in this land no one will notice - because it will be not with a bang but a whimper

[jillc]

there's a bigger problem too because the majority of people don't even notice wild life

they don't stop and stare - the only thing they care about are playful kittens on their phones and that's about as much wild life the seem to show any affection for

'we' are a nation of dog lovers (apparently) but when it comes to other animals we don't seem to give a shit

adverts show dogs and cats in poor health or who have been mistreated by the dregs of society but they don't show habitat loss or the underhand way building companies flout the 'laws'

when i see people walking in the park they don't hear the willow warblers, they don't hear the blue tits or the chiffchaffs - the only birds they see are the mallards down at the lake

but wildlife encompasses everything, all animals including insects, plants, fungi etc

people will watch a wildlife programme and then go and sit in their back gardens with their artificial grass, their paved-over areas and their decking with the usual man-cave built on it, no bird feeders 'coz they attract rats' and no trees or bushes for them to nest in

kids go to the countryside on school trips and bemoan that 'there's nothing to do' and 'trees are boring'

when another animal goes extinct in this land no one will notice - because it will be not with a bang but a whimper

There is interest in wildlife and the environment. The numbers of those three conservation groups outnumbers the members in all the political groups, that's a vast number to be annoying. I know it's true we need to get more people interested who are out and about but that's something that can be changed, and the environment will continue to be a political subject for some time to come. It's interesting that Labour have gone with a much greener plan, that's good and something which can be used to throw yet more pressure on the Tories and their reliance on fossil fuels.

[liverbloke]

There is interest in wildlife and the environment. The numbers of those three conservation groups outnumbers the members in all the political groups, that's a vast number to be annoying. I know it's true we need to get more people interested who are out and about but that's something that can be changed, and the environment will continue to be a political subject for some time to come. It's interesting that Labour have gone with a much greener plan, that's good and something which can be used to throw yet more pressure on the Tories and their reliance on fossil fuels.

let's hope the future is green - at least we care (as many do tbf)