Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"

[24/7]

Rawk is confused about Labour being a Brexit party. Or something. (It's confirmed by Peston, citing "a Labour source".)

I wonder which source that is......somehow I doubt it's Alan_X

[ShakaHislop]

Glad the NEC has made the right call and confirmed that a public vote will be in our manifesto for the European elections. We’re a Party for remain and it’s right that everyone - leavers and remainers - should be given the #finalsay on our Brexit future.

https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1123253807507496960

Where's your fucking dignity?

Corbyn could burn the EU flag live on TV and you'd still have spineless tossers like Streeting making Twitter calls to arms for Remainers to back Labour.

[Ghost Town]

I guess he wasn't happy he didn't have anything to leak before the NEC meeting.

Time he was sacked.

You are clearly a performance artist. I look forward to the day you unmask, shouting "Fooled you all!"

[Devon Red]

That's it then. Remainers should, in fact must, vote for one of CHUK, Lib Dem or Green. Labour is a Brexit Party, this was their last chance and they fucked it.

[ShakaHislop]

Andrew Adonis looks like an even bigger knob today.

[Riquende]

A party spokesperson said:

Labour’s European elections manifesto was agreed at the NEC today and it will be published soon.

Labour is the only party which represents both people who supported leave and remain.

Translation: Labour represents nobody and is so scared of alienating one side of the divide it will risk alienating both at the same time.

Utter shitshow. The rot is probably terminal now. How a Tory brexit has managed to destroy Labour as well I'll never know.

[TheShanklyGates]

There goes any chance of Labour getting my vote.

I'll see which of Greens/Lib Dem/Change is polling best in my area and vote for them. None of them will get elected here though so it's yet another election where my vote is wasted.

[filopastry]

That's it then. Remainers should, in fact must, vote for one of CHUK, Lib Dem or Green. Labour is a Brexit Party, this was their last chance and they fucked it.

Agreed

Andrew Adonis looks like an even bigger knob today.

Also agreed

[filopastry]

There goes any chance of Labour getting my vote.

I'll see which of Greens/Lib Dem/Change is polling best in my area and vote for them. None of them will get elected here though so it's yet another election where my vote is wasted.

Looks like Change are running in 3rd in London so my vote will go there if things don't move around too much.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

So is jezza more the new Blair or the new clegg when it comes to screwing over his voters?

[Ghost Town]

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1123256106032226305

Ian Dunt
‏Verified account @IanDunt
22m22 minutes ago

There are some brilliant people running to be Labour MEPs, but no Remainer should vote for them.
39 replies 265 retweets 628 likes
 

[ShakaHislop]

A party spokesperson said:

Translation: Labour represents nobody and is so scared of alienating one side of the divide it will risk alienating both at the same time.

Utter shitshow. The rot is probably terminal now. How a Tory brexit has managed to destroy Labour as well I'll never know.

Labour Remainers have had many chances over the past 3-4 years to change things, and have thrown it away every time. Whether it was pro-EU MPs like Lammy nominating a Eurosceptic like Corbyn for the leadership prior to the referendum; not seeing the bigger picture and electing Owen Smith as leader because he wasn't a fantasy candidate; not forcing another leadership challenge since then; supporting a pro-Brexit Labour manifesto in the GE; a significant number of pro-EU Labour MPs not having the balls to quit and the pro-referendum unions sitting on their hands for most of the period.

They're like battered wives who think their husband will change because they love him. Nauseating to see people like Streeting and Ben Bradshaw try to put a positive spin on this. Everyone's favourite wet lettuce Starmer won't be far behind. I'm counting down the seconds to his latest piece of stuttered spin on Radio 4.

[ShakaHislop]

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1123256106032226305

I have no sympathy for them if they don't get elected/re-elected. Nothing is stopping them from defecting to a party with a genuinely pro-EU policy. I don't give a fuck if their family has voted Labour going back to great-gran, or whatever usual sob story you hear from people who refuse to leave Labour, I'm not backing a pro-Brexit party.

[BoRed]

Ben Bradshaw:

"1. The Government won’t agree to an “alternative Brexit” & Labour MPs won’t vote for one that isn’t conditional on a #FinalSay public vote, so it won’t happen 2. There won’t be an election cos Tory MPs won’t vote for one. 3. #peoplesvote only thing left. Bingo!"

https://twitter.com/BenPBradshaw/status/1123256528138592256

"Rather than quibbling, pro-European Labour MPs who support a second referendum have welcomed the party’s decision today."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/apr/30/brexit-latest-news-labour-nec-tory-mps-wont-accept-cross-party-compromise-involving-customs-union-says-hunt-live-news?page=with:block-5cc875db8f08c89bd906b5c1#block-5cc875db8f08c89bd906b5c1


It's amazing how removed from reality RAWK really is.

[ShakaHislop]

Ben Bradshaw:

"1. The Government won’t agree to an “alternative Brexit” & Labour MPs won’t vote for one that isn’t conditional on a #FinalSay public vote, so it won’t happen 2. There won’t be an election cos Tory MPs won’t vote for one. 3. #peoplesvote only thing left. Bingo!"

https://twitter.com/BenPBradshaw/status/1123256528138592256

"Rather than quibbling, pro-European Labour MPs who support a second referendum have welcomed the party’s decision today."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/apr/30/brexit-latest-news-labour-nec-tory-mps-wont-accept-cross-party-compromise-involving-customs-union-says-hunt-live-news?page=with:block-5cc875db8f08c89bd906b5c1#block-5cc875db8f08c89bd906b5c1

Just like the Labour MPs supposedly outraged by anti-Semitism who type stern Tweets before campaigning at weekends to put Corbyn into No 10.

[ShakaHislop]

Ben Bradshaw:

"1. The Government won’t agree to an “alternative Brexit” & Labour MPs won’t vote for one that isn’t conditional on a #FinalSay public vote, so it won’t happen 2. There won’t be an election cos Tory MPs won’t vote for one. 3. #peoplesvote only thing left. Bingo!"

https://twitter.com/BenPBradshaw/status/1123256528138592256

"Rather than quibbling, pro-European Labour MPs who support a second referendum have welcomed the party’s decision today."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/apr/30/brexit-latest-news-labour-nec-tory-mps-wont-accept-cross-party-compromise-involving-customs-union-says-hunt-live-news?page=with:block-5cc875db8f08c89bd906b5c1#block-5cc875db8f08c89bd906b5c1

It's amazing how removed from reality RAWK really is.

"Labour MP encourages people to vote Labour" shocker

Just because many on here disagree with Ben, and yours continuous attempts to polish Labour's turd of a Brexit policy does not mean we are "removed from reality"

[TheShanklyGates]

Ben Bradshaw:

"1. The Government won’t agree to an “alternative Brexit” & Labour MPs won’t vote for one that isn’t conditional on a #FinalSay public vote, so it won’t happen 2. There won’t be an election cos Tory MPs won’t vote for one. 3. #peoplesvote only thing left. Bingo!"

https://twitter.com/BenPBradshaw/status/1123256528138592256

"Rather than quibbling, pro-European Labour MPs who support a second referendum have welcomed the party’s decision today."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/apr/30/brexit-latest-news-labour-nec-tory-mps-wont-accept-cross-party-compromise-involving-customs-union-says-hunt-live-news?page=with:block-5cc875db8f08c89bd906b5c1#block-5cc875db8f08c89bd906b5c1


It's amazing how removed from reality RAWK really is.

Why are the leadership still pretending than an alternative Brexit is possible then? Corbyn's words and actions to date suggest that a referendum will happen over his dead body. It feels like there's an almighty stitch up coming.

Verified account @GloriaDePiero

Labour's manifesto for the European Parliament will not contain a pledge to hold a second Brexit referendum.
The party's ruling national executive committee agreed that another nationwide poll should only be "an option" if it cannot force a general election.

https://twitter.com/GloriaDePiero/status/1123259166028718080

Which is it? Someone is telling porkies.

[Zeb]

Policy is a referendum if Labour don't have the power to put it through parliament but Brexit if they're in government or can agree a compromise with the Tories on it. That has been the policy ever since leadership decided to creatively interpret conference. There's not an alternative reading to this.

[TepidT2O]

So, almost zero chance of a second referendum.  Essentially we just want to win the next election and then we will still do brexit anyway.

Again, a vote for labour is a vote for brexit.

[Wabaloolah]

Another open goal missed by Corbyn, he seems intent to lead the party down the Tory road to electoral oblivion. If he really did want to be PM, backing Remain would effectively guarantee he'd win the next election. This wishy washy half and half trying to please everyone will end up pissing off everyone.

Change UK here I come

[Libertine]

Another open goal missed by Corbyn, he seems intent to lead the party down the Tory road to electoral oblivion. If he really did want to be PM, backing Remain would effectively guarantee he'd win the next election. This wishy washy half and half trying to please everyone will end up pissing off everyone.

He's not trying to please everyone. He's trying to achieve one of his (and Milne's) longest standing political aims - to get out of the EU.

[Ghost Town]

Change UK here I come

Will that really help? Quoting Dunt again:

But even these monstrous imbeciles [Frottage's Brexit Party] are doing better than the Remain parties, who have somehow managed to take a moment of surging momentum and turn it into a internecine bloodsport. The Greens, Liberal Democrats and Change UK are currently in a battle to take votes off each other, in a process which could well see all of them deprived of a seat.

The Greens and Lib Dems are as much to blame as anyone. The Lib Dems picked candidates early, making any cooperation harder to achieve. The Greens seem completely oblivious to the damage they're doing. They act like it is business as normal, when in fact we are in a national emergency and their response to it demonstrates they are not substantial or farsighted enough to meet its challenges.

The failings of Change UK are more significant. They promised three things: to do politics in a new way, to be competent about how they conducted it, and to stop Brexit. So far, they are doing politics the old way, badly, in a manner which makes Brexit more likely.

They can't even settle on a name, so now they add new names every day: Change UK, The Independent Group, the Tiggers, the Remain Alliance. Their logo reads 'Change UK The Independent Group', all in the same font, colour and size, so it looks like a Shift-F7 version of a political party.

Worst of all, their language is so safe and turgid and managerial. They learned nothing from the referendum. They have developed precisely no new techniques, no sense of immediacy, no moral imperative - none of the firm, fixed communication deployed so effectively by Leave in 2016. It's really unforgivable to see so few lessons comprehended in all this time. What on earth have they been doing?

From high to low, Brexit to Remain, Labour to Tory, it is a masterclass in inadequacy and irresponsibility. Welcome back. Hope you enjoyed the break.

https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/04/26/week-in-review-an-equal-opportunities-disaster-zone

[Lush is the best medicine...]

He's not trying to please everyone. He's trying to achieve one of his (and Milne's) longest standing political aims - to get out of the EU.

and do it in a way they think will get the tories blamed

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Will that really help? Quoting Dunt again:

https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/04/26/week-in-review-an-equal-opportunities-disaster-zone

because voting for the labour gaslighters is a good idea?

[WhereAngelsPlay]

So, almost zero chance of a second referendum.  Essentially we just want to win the next election and then we will still do brexit anyway.

Again, a vote for labour is a vote for brexit.

I'm convinced that Jezza thinks that he has the same power within Labour that Jinping has in The People's Congress.

[BoRed]

"Labour MP encourages people to vote Labour" shocker

Just because many on here disagree with Ben, and yours continuous attempts to polish Labour's turd of a Brexit policy does not mean we are "removed from reality"

The reality being that absolutely nothing has changed today. They've just restated party policy. They're no more pro-Brexit or anti-Brexit than they were yesterday.

There was outrage on here a few days ago because someone claimed there'd be no mention of a second referendum in the manifesto. Now that turned out not to be the case, there's outrage about something else. If there's always something to be outraged about, it comes across as faux outrage.

In reality, as Bradshaw says, there will be no deal with the government, and no Labour government any time soon, so they'll be backing a second referendum. Everything else is there for election purposes. In reality, Labour are doing just fine.

[ShakaHislop]

The reality being that absolutely nothing has changed today. They've just restated party policy. They're no more pro-Brexit or anti-Brexit than they were yesterday.

There was outrage on here a few days ago because someone claimed there'd be no mention of a second referendum in the manifesto. Now that turned out not to be the case, there's outrage about something else. If there's always something to be outraged about, it comes across as faux outrage.

In reality, as Bradshaw says, there will be no deal with the government, and no Labour government any time soon, so they'll be backing a second referendum. Everything else is there for election purposes. In reality, Labour are doing just fine.

And if he's wrong and an agreement is found, then what?

[Jiminy Cricket]

As deputy leader of the party he has the democratic mandate to see this information. 

That he hasn’t seen it makes a mockery of the party’s democratic processes.

Sacked for what by the way???

He was elected democratically with a huge mandate from the members. Surely you respect that?

Get to fuck does Jezza's Jizz respect that.

[ShakaHislop]

More detail from what actually happened in NEC meeting. I'm told the only vote was on the @TSSAunion amendment that committed party to public vote on ANY Brexit deal. It was 'easily defeated'. Only around 11 people backed it.

Extra detail from the meeting: @jeremycorbyn personally voted against the stronger referendum pledge, as did all 9 @PeoplesMomentum-backed CLP reps.

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1123261165608558593

[BoRed]

And if he's wrong and an agreement is found, then what?

Then voting against Labour in the European elections won't make a blind bit of difference . Seriously, though, both sides are just going through the motions, neither of them have any intention of coming up with a deal. Labour especially, given that the government is imploding.

Look, I have no issue with you, you're a Lib Dem supporter and you're trying to convince people to vote Lib Dem. Fair play to you for that.

But let's not pretend it has anything to do with Brexit. Brexit won't be decided at European elections, and probably not even at a general election. It will be decided in a second referendum. So if you want remain to win, you're barking up the wrong tree. You need to start convincing Brexiters to vote remain, rather than trying to convince remainers to vote for another party. And, with this in mind, calling remainer Labour voters stupid can only be counter-productive.

[ShakaHislop]

Dunt letting his Labour sympathies cloud his judgment again. As bad as when he tried to spin Labour's policy of ending FOM.

Labour is not a Brexit party and it's unhelpful to brand it that. They'll still get loads of votes, mostly from Remainers, and you'll make them out to be Brexit votes.

https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1123270233312104450

Labour's priority is to get a Brexit deal that is to their liking. I don't see how you can credibly claim a party is not pro-Brexit when delivering Brexit is their priority.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Breaking: clear-cut victory for Corbyn Brexit plan at NEC

In the last few moments Jeremy Corbyn’s victory at a meeting of Labour’s NEC (National Executive Committee) has been confirmed. Corbyn’s position on Brexit for the party’s European Parliament manifesto won easily, in spite of the unavoidable absence of a number of left NEC members.

The result is a humiliating defeat for deputy leader Tom Watson, who had tried to orchestrate pressure for a switch to support for another public vote.

https://skwawkbox.org/2019/04/30/breaking-clear-cut-victory-for-corbyn-brexit-plan-at-nec/

skwawkbox     

[ShakaHislop]

Then voting against Labour in the European elections won't make a blind bit of difference . Seriously, though, both sides are just going through the motions, neither of them have any intention of coming up with a deal. Labour especially, given that the government is imploding.

Look, I have no issue with you, you're a Lib Dem supporter and you're trying to convince people to vote Lib Dem. Fair play to you for that.

But let's not pretend it has anything to do with Brexit. Brexit won't be decided at European elections, and probably not even at a general election. It will be decided in a second referendum. So if you want remain to win, you're barking up the wrong tree. You need to start convincing Brexiters to vote remain, rather than trying to convince remainers to vote for another party. And, with this in mind, calling remainer Labour voters stupid can only be counter-productive.

How does a 2nd referendum become more likely if a pro-Brexit party like Labour does well? How do Remainers force Labour to move closer to making a 2nd ref its priority after they've shown Labour it can still have electoral success by treating a 2nd ref as an afterthought?

Remainers tried the "let's vote Labour and hope they'll come good" strategy in 2017 and it's achieved largely fuck all. Taking their votes elsewhere isn't merely an emotion-driven protest vote, but a pragmatic change of tactics. I'd prefer people to vote Lib Dem but even a vote for Change UK, or the Greens instead is still of a way of telling Labour enough is enough while still casting a pro-EU vote. Likewise, if a bad result for Labour does force its hand RE: a 2nd ref, I would understand people flocking back to Labour even if I won't do the same.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1123253807507496960

Where's your fucking dignity?

Corbyn could burn the EU flag live on TV and you'd still have spineless tossers like Streeting making Twitter calls to arms for Remainers to back Labour.

At least it lead me to Fionna O'Learys' twitter.

https://twitter.com/fascinatorfun

[BoRed]

Remainers tried the "let's vote Labour and hope they'll come good" strategy in 2017 and it's achieved largely fuck all.

It really hasn't. Brexit has already been postponed twice, pretty much exclusively through Labour voting against it. And not only have they voted against May's Brexit, they've also explicitly voted against a no deal Brexit (which some still claim is Labour leadership's preferred option). They've even voted for a second referendum on any deal amendment. Maybe people perceive Labour as an anti-Brexit party because they judge them on their voting record?

[ShakaHislop]

It really hasn't. Brexit has already been postponed twice, pretty much exclusively through Labour voting against it. And not only have they voted against May's Brexit, they've also explicitly voted against a no deal Brexit (which some still claim is Labour leadership's preferred option). They've even voted for a second referendum on any deal amendment. Maybe people perceive Labour as an anti-Brexit party because they judge them on their voting record?

Was an option to Remain clearly stated in that amendment?

And them voting against May's deal, and no deal doesn't refute the suggestion, well, reality that their preference is a Labour/jobs first Brexit.

[BoRed]

This is fun: https://euandi2019.eu

I'll be honest, I got the Greens on 83%, Lib Dems on 74%, ChUK on 64% and Labour on 61%.

Across Europe, my best match are Danish alternatives and Austrian Greens. Never heard of either of them.

[Alan_X]

So, almost zero chance of a second referendum.  Essentially we just want to win the next election and then we will still do brexit anyway.

Again, a vote for labour is a vote for brexit.

In a nutshell. Fuck the lot of them.

[Alan_X]

It really hasn't. Brexit has already been postponed twice, pretty much exclusively through Labour voting against it. And not only have they voted against May's Brexit, they've also explicitly voted against a no deal Brexit (which some still claim is Labour leadership's preferred option). They've even voted for a second referendum on any deal amendment. Maybe people perceive Labour as an anti-Brexit party because they judge them on their voting record?

It’s been postponed because the Tories and Labour are equally shambolic and split over Brexit and both are pretending that there’s a Brexit which is anything other than a disaster for Britain.

Labour is a de-facto Brexit party because it’s leader, it’s chief spokesman (Milne) and other key figures are all Bennite eurosceptics and always have been.

[Libertine]

This is fun: https://euandi2019.eu

81% PvdA, 80% D66, 80% GroenLinks.

Seems reasonable. Will go with D66 though....

LibDems top in the UK  , there's no LREM in France though