Author Topic: What goes through Jari's mind...  (Read 8850 times)

Offline mercury

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #40 on: February 27, 2002, 02:22:20 pm »
Just to add one famous quote of GH on the jabb against Litmanen's defensive ability:  we should concentrate on what a player can do, instead of what he can't.  

Jari's one of the best - at least within LFC - in what he can do!  And in the few games he played, he has been consistent.
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »

Offline Steve C

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #41 on: February 27, 2002, 02:43:27 pm »
:but: Ive been attacked by the Jari brigade!!  ;)

Look, Im not his biggest fan, and he has weaknesses like every player, and he has strengths as well. But I think people go OTT about him because he doesnt play taht much, or because he was great for Ajax.

I dont really want to get into this debate, its VERY well trodden ground.

My final thought would be that I quite like Litti coming off the bench..if we are ahead he ought to be able to keep possesion, if we need to score, he might make that telling pass, like last night.
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »

Offline mercury

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #42 on: February 27, 2002, 03:12:01 pm »
Quote
:but: Ive been attacked by the Jari brigade!!  ;)


;D ;D ;D

I am just willing the team to go up another level -  in terms of quality play, the need is apparent - and pure workmanship is not going to be enough.  Litmanen offers a very credible solution.  And I have never seen him played before he joined and what I see has impressed   :)
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »

Offline Shaky Jake

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #43 on: February 27, 2002, 04:50:29 pm »
Agreed.

But I don't see it happening. UNLESS Thommo has now demoted Vladi in the pecking order. That could mean Jari getting a start until Stevie is back from injury (moving Danny back to right MF). We can but hope.

Of course he could pick Gary Mac instead. But I really feel that Macca is not what he used to be. Litti offers so much more.

Fingers crossed. BUT whoever wears the shirt gets my support, regardless of any personal preference.
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »
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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #44 on: February 27, 2002, 05:30:20 pm »
A member of the Jari brigade says: brilliant posts, mindscape!  ;D
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »

Offline joepunter

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #45 on: February 27, 2002, 05:50:07 pm »
good man mindscape. i agree absolutely.

i think if litmanen played, we'd get more goals from midfield. what we need is a pivot in attack, like dalglish used to be. we need someone who can receive a pass, not miscontrol it out of play, and then play it on for midfielders running beyond the strikers. viduka does it for leeds - their poor form lately is largely linked to his utter decrepitude. viduka gets it with his back to goal, then plays it through to either corner, or to the likes of bowyer running past him into the box. liverpool try to use heskey in that role, and he's a good target man, but he hasn't got the vision to bring others into play, too often ends up coming back towards the centre circle with the ball - the attack breaks down. paul tomkins wrote about this before, heskey's tendency to control the ball back the way it came, rather than spinning and turning the defender.

litmanen isn't going to turn and surge past three defenders. what he does it he picks it up deep, lays it off to the wing, and gets into the box. his passing and timing is brilliant, the best at the club.

one incident sticks in my mind. maybe you'll remember that boro game, the 2-0 at anfield. this was in the first half - it didn't lead to a goal, but it should have - (heskey was going through his long nightmare). litmanen got it 40 yards out, immediately spun and arrowed a low pass to the corner, inside the boro left back, who had moved forward out of position. it sticks in my mind because as i watched on tv, i didn't have a notion what he was doing - looked like he'd just banged it out of play - and then murphy appeared, dashing into the picture, and there he is at the byline in acres of space... moves into the box ... picks out heskey moving in .. he misses. oh well.

the point was jari's vision made the chance. he saw murphy, he FORCED him to make the run to the byline by playing the perfect pass, just hard enough to get there, just soft enough for him to catch it. bingo, in behind the defenders, great chance to score. litmanen brings the best out of the players around him, by forcing them to do intelligent things.

every game he does something like that. every time he plays. the sole exception was the chelsea game - but that was our worst team performance of the season. even the southampton game he threaded a brilliant ball through for anelka, but his control let him down and the defender got back to block.

too often we lack that kind of penetration. gerrard is a magnificent passer but he plays too far back to fill this role. i'd love to see the mythical 4-3-1-2 with hamann, riise, gerrard and litmanen in midfield. i think they're our four best midfielders and we should find a way to play them together. with owen and heskey/anelka up front, and henchoz, hyypia and dudek manning the fort, surely this side would have too much power, speed and class for anyone...

but i must admit that i just love the way litmanen plays football. this is what the game is meant to be. the man is a genius and it sickens me to see him on the bench, watching less-gifted players struggle with basic ball control.
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »

Offline joepunter

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #46 on: February 27, 2002, 05:52:14 pm »
also remember peter beardsley called litmanen 'the best foreign player i have ever seen in the premiership'. high praise from one who should know
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Offline Steve C

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #47 on: February 27, 2002, 05:56:50 pm »
Again. this path is WELL trodden. No need to go over it again IMO.

1 point. At Chelsea we played well, attacked better than at most aways this season, NOT because of Litti, but by losing an early goal FORCED the midfield to run forwards, often past the strikers. This is what can be missing from our game.

By painting it as a heskey vs Litti debate, or whatever, makes it far too simplistic.

« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #48 on: February 27, 2002, 05:59:30 pm »
Quote
litmanen brings the best out of the players around him, by forcing them to do intelligent things.


Good point, well made in a cleverly thought through piece.
Thanks

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Offline FF

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #49 on: February 27, 2002, 06:42:13 pm »
Quote

but i must admit that i just love the way litmanen plays football. this is what the game is meant to be. the man is a genius and it sickens me to see him on the bench, watching less-gifted players struggle with basic ball control.


My sentiments exactly, players like Jari are what makes football 'the beautiful game'.
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »

Offline TheKid.

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #50 on: February 27, 2002, 07:17:26 pm »
Too much for me to even be bothered to fuckin say - Steve, nice to see you still subscribing to my "The Jari, The" newsletter (or something in German  :P).

:-/
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Offline cain

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #51 on: March 1, 2002, 06:20:09 pm »
Jari, I agree Steve, is being looked upon as some sort of Saviour who doesn`t get enough chance to play.
Our inability to create openings and attack from midfield and take teams apart at home, compared to Ars and Man-u, is down to bad TACTICS and NEGATIVE play,too many back passes ,not enough direct footy e.t.c.
If Jari comes on and plays for the rest of the season and we still get the same results WHO are you going to blame then?
He hasn`t got enough quality around him?
would he do better at Man-U or Ars?
I can`t see Jari coming on and then us taking apart teams at home 5-0 e.t.c.
It is a Team game and you have got to start looking at some of the other players before you look at Jari as the last throw of the dice ,Surely we r better than that ???
World class strikers we got (heskey exempt) but have we got ENOUGH world class feeders to keep them happy ???  
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Offline mindscape

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #52 on: March 2, 2002, 07:50:22 pm »
And Jari scores another goal after coming in as a sub, beats VDS with some neat heading control then slot in a goal at an acute angle.
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Offline TheKid.

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #53 on: March 3, 2002, 12:12:49 am »
Quote
And Jari scores another goal after coming in as a sub, beats VDS with some neat heading control then slot in a goal at an acute angle.


Well then maybe i will lick his arse next time i see him then  ::)
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »

Offline Steve C

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #54 on: March 3, 2002, 12:47:43 am »
Quote


My final thought would be that I quite like Litti coming off the bench..


1-0 to Steve_C?  ;) ;D ;D
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Offline TheKid.

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #55 on: March 3, 2002, 12:50:33 am »
;D
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Offline mindscape

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #56 on: March 4, 2002, 10:56:52 am »
Jari coming off the bench? That is an insult.
can U imagine Barca telling Rivaldo,"Chap, you will be a supersub, we will need you when Alfonso and Dani can't score in 85 mins." or Roma telling Totti,"Del Vecchio is my first choice, U sit on the bench." Or Real Madrid telling Raul that Munitis would be first choice.

Same qn, if you were a Man U fan, would you prefer Cantona and Giggs to sit on the bench and let work horses play? Or do you want 9 work horses and Cantona and Giggs.

Same for Arsenal, at their title winning year, could they have done without Bergkamp, same kind of player as Jari, he won't sprint past 5 players in 5 seconds like Anelka, but his vision and technique is world class.

That was how Man U have a wide gap year after year and Arsenal won the title deservedly a few years back. It is only to the introduction of Bergkamp that they managed to race back into title contention. This year, there is a death of winners like the above two. Veron had failed to convince that he is one, Kanu suffers from the Smicer syndrome and Kewell is still way short of fitness. And LIVERPOOL is HANDED a once in a lifetime chance to win the EPL, Chances like this dun come every year, that was why Newcastle is making a push for the title, Bobby Robson knows it, John Gregory knows it and the board fails him by refusing to cough up money for this chance.

But we dun seem to know it, Le Boss is still playing as if we are still an Under 21 team and played conservatively. Match Winners like Litmanen and Fowler are disregarded and we do not play to win in confidence and style in half our matches and the mentality keep sinking in till the bubble burst. From past experience for every top team there will by 10-15 matches when they have face 8 men defences or have bad luck and this is where the likes of Cantona and Litmanen comes in, imagine if he would be the match winner in 7-8 of these matches, Cantona would have got 15 points a season. If Man U have Cantona instead of Scholes early this season, God knows how many points would they have gotton in moments of Eric Magic.
With regard to the comment that we lack bottles. Which is preferable? having less possession and players full of bottles and defending for 60 mins out of 90 or having possession and control and not needing that extra player with bottle cos we do not need to defend as much and in this case the playmaker/Winner comes in.

Of cos we can talk about teams like Fulham or last year Barcalona, who can control the entire match but can't score. Of cos possession is important, but we have clinical finishers and the better cutting edge in midfield in Gerrard, Berger, Murphy and Barmby. We dun have to be like Barca who just stroke around in midfield without Overmars and Enrique as of last season.

About Steve_C commentry about the match where he say that the ball pass Litmanen often etc etc, yes it does, its soccer, you can't expect the odd playmaker to play from box to box. The ball passed Cantona, Totti, Zidane, Bergkamp as well, lots of time, you won't hear fans saying ,"Eric or Francesco is a bloody waste of time, what have he got to contribute to the defence? Bench him!"

For every 10 balls which pass these so called wasteful players, with a good defensive and tactics almost all of them will result in the defensive players and the goalie dealing with it. This is a team game damn it, the team have to score and keep the score against them down.

While teams have played boring football and won, which team in recent memory actually win titles while benching a winner? Leeds? Yes they play long and direct style, but they bought Cantona and he made the difference. Blackburn? HOw long did their successes last? Deportivo? Real Madrid? Roma? Nantes? Lazio? geez I can't think of any.
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »

Offline Life

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #57 on: March 4, 2002, 11:08:13 am »
I can't help but agree with you Mindscape.  Against the better teams (and there's only Utd and Arsenal in this country) we might have to have the workhorses giving 100%.  But against the likes of Bolton, at home, we should be battering them.  The reason why we don't is because they put 10 men behind the ball - so it's then that we need someone with the craft of Litmanen to open them up.
Just heard that he's probably going back to Ajax this summer for about £2M.  Don't blame him but it leaves me feeling very very sick, and not a little angry.
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Offline Andy

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #58 on: March 4, 2002, 11:32:56 am »
first off i am a jari fan, but understand his weaknesses - he is not a midfield battler, he is a creative attacking forward.

maybe there is a stronger arguement for his inclusion in home games - away from home, our counter-attacking style is perfectly suited, see the 10 away wins (i think it is) for evidence.

however, we struggle to unlock teams who come to Anfield and defend with 10 men behind the ball. see the number of points dropped at home this season & the teams we have beaten, often the "better" teams, have come and played more adventurous footie against us. to unlock these defensive teams, there is a stronger case for jari (or smicer...) to play IMO.

horses for courses, i guess  :)

Offline Steve C

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #59 on: March 4, 2002, 01:32:28 pm »
Quote
Jari coming off the bench? That is an insult.
can U imagine Barca telling Rivaldo,"Chap, you will be a supersub, we will need you when Alfonso and Dani can't score in 85 mins." or Roma telling Totti,"Del Vecchio is my first choice, U sit on the bench." Or Real Madrid telling Raul that Munitis would be first choice.


Oh dear, it appears you have succumbed to Jari-itis. A disease suffered by those who cannot see football as a team game, and who believe that Jari is in some way the saviour to all our problems.

Equating jari with Rivaldo and Totti is flabbergasting, even the Bergkamp comparison is somewhat bemusing.

I wasnt arguing for Jari to contribute to the defence either, in saying the game by-passed him I mean just that..

And as for questioning GH, saying he is playing like an U21 team..I find that insulting. We have developing players in an evolving system, its joyous to watch the development of Murphy, Gerrard, Owen et al, within the framework of an ever-evolving system. Whereas last season we went away in Europe for 0-0s, this season, @ Rome, Kyiv, Istanbul (3 HARD places to get anything), we have been the dominant sides, and very unlucky to have won just one game. The improvement is visable.

And go on, who would you have him replace? Heskey or Anelka? Come off it.

Here's a thought for you...Jari DOESNT fit into our team style and system, nor did Fowler. Why should GH sacrifice the team for the sake of 1 individual?

PS: To those of you (and there were many), who argued against me, and said that by selling Fowler we had handed the title to Leeds on a plate... youve gone a bit quiet on that one eh?!
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »

Offline mindscape

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #60 on: March 4, 2002, 02:06:12 pm »
Of cos comparing Jari with Rivaldo and Totti is flabbergasting. Just how many European Champions Cups have Jari won? Just one, what is disgrace. I am sure Rivaldo and Totti won a lot more maybe 4 or 5 however I can't seem to remember when are they.
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Offline mindscape

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #61 on: March 4, 2002, 02:11:42 pm »
Of cos Football is a team game. Which is why we need a playmaker to like defence and attack together. Lets take a match against Boro, Jari and Hamann are in the centre of everything, the defence pass the ball to Hamann or Jari and they just sprays it all over the field. Every single players are involved in the game. They receive passes do their stuff etc. NOW THAT IS A TEAM GAME.

Or your prefer Berger there instead. Berger is a cut and trust player and he should be receiving balls and run at goal, not trying to do something he can't do like dictating the match.

How can U say a team game means we have to play Dudek and 10 David Battys?
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Offline Genelec

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #62 on: March 4, 2002, 02:14:38 pm »
I think PH's comments on the official site say it all. The management can not find a role for Jari. I think he has a vision and touch that very few other players have. But he does not fit into the GH style of play. I hate it when we drop back, defend heavily and counter attack. Perhaps Jari should be used in that instance to make better use of the fast break, providing quality balls for Owen or whoever is up front that day.

He is not a defending mid fielder, but he could be a creative one. Would that be natural to him as a player, I am not sure. But no matter how frustrating our teams style of play is sometime, especailly to those of us who remember the flowing, passing game we used to play. Although we were famous at that time for being at our most dangerous 1 goal down and on the counter attack.

I feel that if Jari wants to play at Liverpool, and it seems he does, he must be aware of GH's game plan. If he wants to play mor, which I am sure he does, then I think HE has to cut himself a new and different role in the team. But I still think he is one of the best players we have, one that can do great things with the quick break outs and counter attacks that we seem to love these days.
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »
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Offline Steve C

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #63 on: March 4, 2002, 02:27:51 pm »
Quote
Of cos comparing Jari with Rivaldo and Totti is flabbergasting. Just how many European Champions Cups have Jari won? Just one, what is disgrace. I am sure Rivaldo and Totti won a lot more maybe 4 or 5 however I can't seem to remember when are they.


Yes, back in 95 (I think it was then..)...almost 7 years ago.

Bobby Charlton won a European Cup as well yer know. :P

And where did that thing about 10 david Batty's come from??

Look, I maybe am being somewhat flippant, but Im sick of the same old reguritated arguements, that have been going on for nearly 6 months now.

I hope this will be my final word on this thread: I dont think Jari should start, I dont think he is the saviour, I like 2 strikers and a disciplined midfield (not david batty types tho), we are winning, heskey, anelka, owen are playing well (Owen actually is slightly out-of-touch), Jari doesnt fit into our team, all credit to him for not moaning though.

In Houllier and Thommo I (we) Trust.
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Offline cotter

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #64 on: March 4, 2002, 02:29:47 pm »
Agree entirely with Steve_C. Jari does not suit the system we play. Liverpool rely on quick counter thrusts and not - like Arsenal or Barca or many of the other sides mentioned - on posession of the football.

Perhaps in the future when we have matured into a Championship winning side (or indeed Champions League winning, I believe that is Ged's ultimate ambition)we will find room for a player like Jari. But not at the moment.  

I also think a further point should be made about Jari's attitude. No one could deny that there has been a hint of glumness about him in recent months, most notably during Leeds, Ipswich games.

He does not have a divine right to be in the team. Ged showed in his treatment of Robbie (remember his sulks) that he will actively seek to isolate a player who is not prepared to behave like a team member.

Nico, Gary Mac, Vlad, Paddy, and many more - heroes from last season, experienced internationals amongst them - have all realised this and got their heads down and worked for a chance and shown their commitment and enthusiasm to the cause.

I wonder how you would all feel if Anelka had been seen to be behaving in the same way?  :)
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Offline Genelec

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #65 on: March 4, 2002, 03:30:53 pm »
All good points cotter and all valid. I just feel we need that creative spark in the squad. If that is not going to be Jari, so be it. But we need someone who can turn on the magic in mid field. In the same way that Owen has done up front on many occasions in the past. In some games Owen is just surrounded by defence, we need someone who can slice that defence with a single pass.

I am not saying Jari is the man for that job. I would just like to see Jari given the chance to expand his game. OK so he is not really a striker or a defensive midfield player. But he could plug the gap between the 2. I don't see how he could do much worse than Smicer. He is on the squad, isnt it worth a try? Especially as he seems to want to stay and play for Liverpool.
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Offline Shaky Jake

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #66 on: March 4, 2002, 03:33:59 pm »
This Jari thing is getting out of all proportion. We have one camp who sees him as a saviour and another that is sick to death of him and is not only saying that he doesn't fit in with the system (IMHO unfortunately true) and the other camp questioning his attitude

e.g.

Quote
I also think a further point should be made about Jari's attitude. No one could deny that there has been a hint of glumness about him in recent months, most notably during Leeds, Ipswich games.  



To which I say "bollocks". I'm denying it. There. You don't know the guy. It's so tabloid to start jumping to those conclusions.

He's even been on the website to say what he thinks about staying at Liverpool...

If Jari were as quick as Vladi or as strong as Emile or as tough in the tackle as Stevie, with his great skill and intelligence he'd be an automatic selection.

But our game, at the moment revolves around pace, power and strength. He doesn't have those things. Thus less skillful players (Danny, Vladi) get picked becaúse they better suit the needs of the team. Which is the way it should be.

It is my hope that the team will evolve (with or without Jari) into a sophisticated footballing machine with a midfield as clever as it is currently powerful. If this evolution is rapid enough it may yet mean that Jari is a success here. But it is my beleif that Jari will leave in the summer and we need Ged back for many months to push the club further along in it's development.
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »
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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #67 on: March 4, 2002, 05:07:04 pm »
ok we play counter-attacking football at the mo', and we can't find a role for him ...but in the future we will need to be more flexible in our style of play & you can't always counter attack at home when teams have 10 men behind the ball (as our home points tally shows).

and to change the style of play, you need to introduce players who have the ability to play a different way ...eg jari!

as i have said on a different thread, surely there is a strong (-er) arguement for playing him when @ Anfield??
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Offline Genelec

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #68 on: March 4, 2002, 05:48:47 pm »
Again many good points. I think everyone understands that this team is still developing and has a way to go. GH is also doing a remarkable job, otherwise we wouldnt have the 5 trophies from last year. Many people just feel frustrated that we have such a talented player left on the bench so much of the time. I think possibly that although GH may not have put him in the starting 11, he would have used him much earlier in many of our recent games. GH has an amazing vision during the game, finding the oppositions weak points and exploiting them.

Perhaps once GH returns Jari may have a chance to show that he can learn a slightly different style of game. I would love to try him out in an attacking mid fielder roll before he leaves us. But then again we could let him go and buy another player for that role when we need one. Tuff call.
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »
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Offline Nap

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #69 on: March 4, 2002, 06:31:48 pm »
Nice thread Homesick (much to Steve_C's Dismay! ;))...I'll ask a simple question to those who remember the past...Since Dalglish, has any Red sprayed the ball around as generously and effectively as Jari? of course, when Jari is given the chance? LOL

The Chelsea away game was a dismal display by Jari, he is human after all, but my opinion is that he opens the field and plays into space very well, reminding a bit of Kenny....any thoughts from this esteemed gallery of Red fans?

disclaimer: Nap is is no way saying Jari is better than Kenny, or the saviour, or any of that crap..just a similar style of play in the passing dept...
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »

Offline Steve C

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #70 on: March 4, 2002, 06:57:36 pm »
:but: I do not hate Jari. He is a red, I sing about him, I will him to do well when he plays.

I just get tired of everyone treating him like deity, and the saviour to all our problems, thats all.
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #71 on: March 4, 2002, 07:43:17 pm »
Hey Steve, I don't think we are treating Jari like deity. Hail Jari!  ;D  Erm ...

Seriously, when we signed Jari, I was over the moon. Yes, even I know about Jari Litmanen!  ;D A great player whom we surely can slot into the side quite easily!

« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »

Offline cain

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #72 on: March 4, 2002, 07:46:29 pm »
How would Jari do if we started to play with a couple of class wingers (I leave the choices to you) and we started making use of the width that we lack so badly.....?
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #73 on: March 5, 2002, 03:35:43 pm »
So the two camps are still here then?

The truth is, as usual, probably somewhere in the middle.  
I'm a huge Jari fan, and was convinced that when he arrived, he'd be our missing link.  Since then he's hardly been used.  I think, like Peter Beardsley, he needs a few games to get his eye in.  Beardsley was always toss when he first came back in - and in fact was toss for his first few months, but after he bedded in he was phenominal (sp?).
To reply to couple of points above:
All the arguments for our fast football where used by Arsenal to keep Bergkamp out.  Now tell me they're a better team without him.
In games when the opposition are packing defense - tell me he's not the kind of player you want trying to prise them apart.
Tell me he's not better than Smicer.

I'm not suggesting that he's the saviour - just that Thommo hasn't got the technical nouse to see where to slot him in.  I'd put him on the right wing instead of Smicer, because he's next to bloody useless there anyway, and anything Jari does would be a step forward.  I'd rather put him in front of a 3 man midfield of Riise, Hamann and Gerrard - and behind Owen and Anelka.  Owen relies on good service, and he's just not getting it lately; Jari could solve that.

I really feel like we're leaving a Beardsley or a Bergkamp on the bench because "the system doesn't allow for a player like that".  That's crazy - when you've got a player like him, you play him.

But - there's lots of good points from the "anti" Jari (and I know you don't hate him, but you don't want him in).

Like I've said elsewhere - after last year we shouldn't complain.  But it's just so painful some games when we're having trouble breaking teams down or keeping possession and seeing such a talented player getting splinters up his arse.
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »
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Offline john_mac

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #74 on: March 5, 2002, 03:47:25 pm »
Quote
How would Jari do if we started to play with a couple of class wingers (I leave the choices to you) and we started making use of the width that we lack so badly.....?


Fuckinell when did Liverpool ever play with two "wingers" MacManaman and Walters maybe.....that was fucken successful!

Look at the Liverpool teams which won the european cups:

MkI     Case, Cally, Terry Mac & Ray Kennedy
MKII    Case, Souness, Terry Mac & Ray Kennedy
MkIII   Lee, Souness, Terry Mac and Ray Kennedy
MkIV    Lee, Johnstone, Souness and Whelan

Oh dear me not a fucking winger in sight!
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »
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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #75 on: March 5, 2002, 05:27:31 pm »
I feel exactly the same way Life. I know Jari is not the solution to all our problems, or our Saviour!(although I didnt realise we needed one). I just think, like you, that in some situations where defences are giving Owen a very hard time( i.e. Gala an Anfield and top some extent in Istanbul) that Jari could provide the quality balls, into space, that Owen needs to run onto to score goals.

There is a place for Jari in the team, maybe not every week and maybe not against every kind of opposition. If some people would stop thinking of him as a striker and perhaps as a play maker. Dont see anyone else who can do it so well.
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »
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Offline Shaky Jake

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #76 on: March 5, 2002, 05:44:32 pm »
Rumour yesterday (read it on football365.com) was that Ajax are going to make an offer of 2 million quid for him...
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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #77 on: March 5, 2002, 06:14:26 pm »
I ain`t livin in the past John mac, good though they were, so the time is NOW and Football evolves and changes and so thats the way it is...........
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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #78 on: March 5, 2002, 11:02:18 pm »
Quote



Equating jari with Rivaldo and Totti is flabbergasting, even the Bergkamp comparison is somewhat bemusing.



Oh dear, another one who knows nothing about continental footie. Jari was Bergkamp's replacement at Ajax and the fans forgot about Dennis in a month because Jari more than filled his boots. As for current form, what evidence do you have to back up the popular claim that he is past it? Look at the number of games he's started this season and then take a close look at how many goals he has scored and made in those starts. He has played well in all but one of the few times he's been called upon and he has done that with no no match-practise whatsoever. Jari's game, if anyone's, is about touch. Nobody knows what he might have been able to do given a run of even half the games Heskey played during his stickiest patch.

Regardless of the fact that there is no position for him, Jari keeps playing well and winning games for us. I'd like to know why he shouldn't be given a go because he has surely played well enough. Formations have nothing to do with it. If a player plays better than other contenders for the spot, he should start. I*m basically ranting because Jari has never been given a fair chance and yet people say he shouldn't play. If he played ten games in a row we would be in a far better position to pass judgment. Won't be long now until someone declares Baros as unfitting to our system.
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Offline Steve C

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Re: What goes through Jari's mind...
« Reply #79 on: March 5, 2002, 11:18:52 pm »
Quote


Oh dear, another one who knows nothing about continental footie.


Charming.

As you question Thommo and GH's decisions so much, you clearly have one of the finest football minds in the world. Yes, I bow down to your superior knowledge. In fact, if I had anything to do with it, I would sack the lot of those wasters at Anfield and put you in charge.

:wave:
« Last Edit: January 1, 1970, 01:00:00 am by 1017961200 »