Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"

[leroy]

Cos they can't say "fucktons of food" even though it has alliterative appeal

But he didn't say truck loads, or plane loads... he said "Trucks full of food and medicines".  Terrible for a professional journalist let alone an assistant editor!

[Jiminy Cricket]

Why would you fly trucks full of food and medicines? Or is that just shit language from the journo?

You are reading it too literally. 'Trucks full', just means 'loads'. If the journalist had written, 'shit loads', would you have assumed that they will be flying-in manure?

Though, on a general point, I have difficulty reading articles where there is poor grammar and sentence structure. The type of article which reads like one headline after another. Still, I think the meaning in this case is fairly obvious.

[24/7]

But he didn't say truck loads, or plane loads... he said "Trucks full of food and medicines".  Terrible for a professional journalist let alone an assistant editor!

Yeah sorry bout that - was too busy trying not to take life too seriously - Brexit is a monumental fuck-up of epic proportions, likely to be the greatest we'll see in our lifetimes - so I try to have a laugh with it now and then. If it helps, try to to imagine being an Everton supporter and you might see why I feel so fuckin desperate about it all and see sarcastic comedy as the ideal form of escapism

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Why would you fly trucks full of food and medicines? Or is that just shit language from the journo?

It's trucked into the plane and then from the plane to it's destination,truck loads.

[24/7]

It's trucked into the plane and then from the plane to it's destination,truck loads.

There is a superfluous apostrophe in your sentence. That is a shocking example of poor use of punctuation. This is not the sort of thing we expect from seasoned members of our community. Furthermore, the use of contractions is considered to be bad form too. Jacob Rees-Mogg is scribing a missive your way as we speak. You must do better. It's not English enough!!!! RAWK should hold a referendum as to whether or not to confine you to the village stocks. We have truck and plane loads of them.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I should blame predictive text but I'm on the lappy.

[24/7]

I should blame predictive text but I'm on the lappy.

On the lash more like......or the hash.......

[PaulF]

It's trucked into the plane and then from the plane to it's destination,truck loads.

Anything else would be too efficient for brexit. Unless Boris builds us a bridge to portugal

[Lush is the best medicine...]

https://twitter.com/owenjones84/status/1160682492904558592?s=21

I know lucas’ idea is totally mad and would never work, but has the little tit not figured it might be because she is so close to the obvious roadblock to getting this done which is why they haven’t bothered with her, not because she’s black?

Although it’s funny seeing them go after Caroline Lucas, her of the party of one seat after going after the Lib Dem’s, winter is coming for your project you little bollock, some of the comments from his fans underneath are funny though

[ShakaHislop]

https://twitter.com/owenjones84/status/1160682492904558592?s=21

I know lucas’ idea is totally mad and would never work, but has the little tit not figured it might be because she is so close to the obvious roadblock to getting this done which is why they haven’t bothered with her, not because she’s black?

Although it’s funny seeing them go after Caroline Lucas, her of the party of one seat after going after the Lib Dem’s, winter is coming for your project you little bollock, some of the comments from his fans underneath are funny though

and yet she is the person people on here have been talking about as a possible interim PM in this hypothetical "government of national unity" What was she thinking?!

[oldfordie]

and yet she is the person people on here have been talking about as a possible interim PM in this hypothetical "government of national unity" What was she thinking?!

Disappointed with Lucas, never expected her to come up with such a ridicules suggestion. messed up badly. if someone advised her to say this then she needs to dump whoever it is quickly.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

and yet she is the person people on here have been talking about as a possible interim PM in this hypothetical "government of national unity" What was she thinking?!

wokeness I’d guess, pretty much ruined any credibility going forwards now as that will be used against her like that car crash interview did for Natalie Bennett who came before her

[rich87]

To be fair I think lucas is spot on. I think British politics needs shaking up, it's full of stuffy old men from the same background, doing and thinking the same thing. It's like a bloody gentleman's club. Her idea is wild and radical, but maybe this will ruffle a few feathers. It's not too say her idea can't be opened up to include men eventually. But maybe getting this off the ground needs new tact, a group of strong women forming a strong coherent plan is better than watching corbyn be a wet lettuce in a group trying to form a coup but no idea how to lead it, or knowing what he really wants to achieve. As for the other men within politics at the moment I can't think of many who would be good leading this country against Brexit. She may shoot herself in the foot, it might not work but by god I'm behind her for actually trying. There's very few people in politics I actually have faith or believe in anymore, but I've met lucas a few times, and I don't think she's crazy, I think she's strong and calculated at just the right times. I don't believe she'll allow men to shout her down, she'll give as good as she gets. I for one would love to see it work. At the very least it'll get people talking. I can't wait for the sexist male pigs to come out the woodwork and say a group of women running the country bless them, or who do they think they are?

Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, corbyn or lucas? Real tough choice there......

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Just say it’s a cabinet of people who didn’t go to public school, much better

[Jiminy Cricket]

Of, it was not so long ago where if a Cabinet was made up purely of men, no one would have even raised an eyebrow. Still, poor politics to propose a Cabinet of purely women, and is fundamentally wrong in the same way as it was to exclude women in the past.

As for Owen Jones: he is a prize twat. Abbott is not an obvious example of 'talent', and it has nothing to do with her colour.

[Dr. Beaker]

It's something, and it may lead to a new approach and the eventual inclusion of men obviously. If nothing else it may just kickstart the parliamentary process of uniting the no 'no dealers' and hopefully the remainer bandwagon can get going. Something needs to happen soon and this piss poor parliament needs shaming into action, which may or may not mean she succeeds.

I'm with her for trying.

[Iska]

My first instinct was that this was unexpected and unnecessary, but actually pretty good - an all-female moment would be a good thing to have had for posterity - but actually now I think Jones is right, omitting Abbott is unforgivable, especially when Thornberry is there.

The problem is that this is about one issue only, and she’s tried to use it to shoehorn in another issue, but can’t even do it right.  Now there are two reasons to oppose it, I mean look at us, she’s come up with a proposal that a group of hardcore remainers are struggling with.  It’s dreadful judgement.

[Zeb]

So I hear the Greens aren't on 'the left' any more...

Even if you disagree with the specifics of what Lucas is suggesting, if she's going to name a fantasy cabinet then anything which doesn't include Corbyn is going to start off the usual idiots. Although I'm amused by the implied argument that some of them are making that it would all be fine if only Diane Abbott were included. Attention thieves the lot of them. The Tories are in the middle of a pre-election campaign promising everything to everyone. Labour's official talking points have been on grouse hunting while their social media outlets have turned fire on the Greens and the Jewish Labour Movement. Strange world.

[Dr. Beaker]

Maybe we can get an extension from the EU until the grouse crisis is brought under control.

[Zeb]

Ha. Yeah.

Here's something more tangible, if also unlikely. Plaid Cymru are asking for the Welsh Assembly and Westminster Parliament to be recalled.

In their letter, Plaid Cymru leader Adam Price AM and Westminster leader Liz Saville Roberts MP said:

“There is a growing likelihood that the UK will leave the EU without a deal on 31 October. If that were to happen there would be serious adverse consequences for Welsh jobs and the economy more widely, especially for our manufacturing industry and for our farmers. There would also be the threat of food and medicine shortages, and disruption at our ports.

“Nevertheless, evidence of a no deal Brexit on 31 October, a matter of weeks away, is growing by the day. Since his election as leader of the Conservative Party and subsequent appointment as Prime Minister, Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson has made it clear that he is unprepared to negotiate a new deal with the other 27 member states of the EU unless what he terms the ‘undemocratic’ Irish backstop, included in his predecessor’s deal at her request and for which Mr Johnson himself voted in the House of Commons, has been removed.

“Equally, the EU negotiators have repeatedly said that the backstop is not up for negotiation. This, of course, is the mechanism that would keep the UK inside the EU customs union in order to prevent a hard border on the island of Ireland.

“It is imperative that the Westminster Parliament be recalled before 3 September to give it the opportunity to properly reflect the democratic will of its members in deciding whether the UK should leave without a deal on 31 October.

“In turn, it is imperative that the democratic will of the people of Wales, as represented by the Senedd, be given an opportunity to express itself before September.

“That is why we are writing to you to ask you to join with us in calling for an immediate recall of the Senedd, to debate what is undoubtedly the greatest peacetime crisis that Wales and the UK have faced in modern times.”

PC link

Not sure of procedure at the Assembly, but Westminster requires the Government to request it of the Speaker. If it's Labour's Mark Drakeford who can recall the Senedd then doing it could provide leverage for Westminster's summer break to be cut short (due to return 3rd/4th September). Still. Unlikely.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

My first instinct was that this was unexpected and unnecessary, but actually pretty good - an all-female moment would be a good thing to have had for posterity - but actually now I think Jones is right, omitting Abbott is unforgivable, especially when Thornberry is there.

The problem is that this is about one issue only, and she’s tried to use it to shoehorn in another issue, but can’t even do it right.  Now there are two reasons to oppose it, I mean look at us, she’s come up with a proposal that a group of hardcore remainers are struggling with.  It’s dreadful judgement.

abbott has said quite a few times that she doesn’t like the idea of a national unity government so why would they ask her, she even said this before the little turd played the race card on her behalf

[Iska]

abbott has said quite a few times that she doesn’t like the idea of a national unity government so why would they ask her, she even said this before the little turd played the race card on her behalf

I get this - but the point is that Lucas has tried to turn what should be a Remain gesture into a Remain-and-virtuous gesture, only for it to be easily portrayed as a Remain-and-unvirtuous gesture instead.  You can’t compete with Jones etc on virtue, basically, so there’s no point in trying.  Just concentrate on the brexit stuff.

Anyway the inclusion of Cooper is presumably what this is really all about.

[classycarra]

abbott has said quite a few times that she doesn’t like the idea of a national unity government so why would they ask her, she even said this before the little turd played the race card on her behalf

Indeed. "Unforgivable" is a bizarrely extreme choice of words.

Why would anyone interested in avoiding no deal brexit be interested in inviting this kind of paranoid and selfish 'party before country' lunacy into the room.

Here she is on record about unity governments last year: https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/national-government-would-be-government-for-rich/

People like Dianne Abbott and others close to the shadow cabinet are exactly why other parties are now relied upon so heavily - because those fuckers aren't doing their job, nor acting in the country (or even their party's members') interests.

[Alan_X]

abbott has said quite a few times that she doesn’t like the idea of a national unity government so why would they ask her, she even said this before the little turd played the race card on her behalf

I don't see how any of Corbyn/Abbott/McDonnell could be included as they were/are pro-Brexit and two of them only moved towards a second referendum when it became obvious how much damage Labour's Brexit 'strategy' was doing.

[Iska]

"Unforgivable" is a bizarrely extreme choice of words.

I used it on the assumption that the open letter was an initial public gesture which might influence debate, rather than a serious proposal about to be followed by the imminent appearance of that group-of-ten.  If I’m wrong and it’s the latter, then okay - but if it’s the former, it looks bad.

[classycarra]

Some quite sensible messaging suggestions in here - though clearly it's too late:

https://twitter.com/GeorgePeretzQC/status/1160789658823004160

[Alan_X]

And surely Owen Jones should be confronting the idea that the next leader of the Labour Party might be a white woman rather than Diane Abbott.

...Here’s another suggestion. Laura Pidcock – the North Shields-born 31-year-old, widely seen as a future leader on Labour’s left – has the potential to have the same star power in British politics as Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez does across the Atlantic...  Owen Jones, May 2019

[Cpt_Reina]

Tough day in here for those proposing the greens as the 'sensible' choice for the next election, that idea proposed by Lucas is as much a turn off and just plain bad as near enough anything else suggested in the past 3 years.

Here's an idea to get past the divisive identity driven politics of Brexit, lets put together an all female cabinet.

Embarrassing stuff.

Every chance the Lib Dems or the Greens get to step up and show they *might* be a reasonable alternative their expose themselves as either being closeted tories for the former or woefully out of their depth for the latter.

[vblfc]

I have lived outside UK for 20 years but still have large group of family and friends back home (Some for and some against Brexit), so I care a lot about where this is going.  I also read as much as I can from both sides on the implications of Brexit.  I have many non-British friends in Europe now and we share our views a lot.  They don't really agree or disagree with UKs Brexit, we are past that, rather they think we are sort of mad, misled and are not facing reality.  In fact I have German, French, Italian, Belgian, Swiss, Irish friends and they all genuinely really like the UK and it's people but think we are basically burying our heads in the sand & self destructing.  No real malice in their views expressed to me, just somewhat sadness and major disbelief - but to be honest, here it is basically/naturally pro Europe, the difference being the thinking on Brexit is much more fact based and business common sense based. There has never been an impression that Europe was overpowering or dominating/imposing on the UK. Still no malice expressed to me in what is happening.
Like many in this thread I (and honestly my friends here) was/were hoping for some opposition, a logical intervention, common sense, reality check to stop the self destructing madness.  It hasn't happened. This hope is changing now as reality sets in. After the Brexit Party success in Euro elections and now a clown as PM, it has made me/us realise it's past common sense point and sadly just needs to get done now.  The spin and blame is now the prime motivation and there is little or no factual thread to any of it.  It isn't right and doesn't sit well, but it's gone too far.  A revoke or referendum would likely cause such problems without some level of fact based perspective which seemingly isn't there and isn't wanted by a mass of "the winners".  No other outcome is likely to happen without strong opposition.
Going forward from now and post Brexit,  someone with influence, somehow needs to champion a fact based understanding of all this, because the hard times coming and business impacts, economy likely crashing, will not be managed any better by blaming Euro bureaucrats etc. The same Europe will no doubt be forced to be consequential in a hard scenario.  How can they not? 
Britain hasn't been forced into a loss of decision making or sovereignty (I can see tons of examples from here of historical big UK opt outs like Euro V's Sterling, Miles V's KM, etc. etc.)  However losing scale on trade deals etc. hard borders, or not respecting an orderly Brexit will be obviously very problematic.  These are consequential facts and just common sense reality.  This no deal also craps all over Ireland/Northern Ireland, that's so sad and we go backwards.
So this is all very difficult, viewing it from Europe.  Britain will obviously give EU 27 no choice now but to play hardball.  Up to now Europe has just experienced Britain flop along, decide to leave (Europe didn't want this), Britain to negotiate and agree a deal, to come up with red-lines and a backstop, no alignment achieved in Parliament after many tries (basically the UK political system currently doesn't work for such a major and marginalising issue). There is no agreement and no organised opposition - From Europe (which we all know isn't perfect by the way) This is clearly political dysfunction. Now Britain changes it's mind and threatens a no deal, which was never, ever the idea, but is being spun as the most likely outcome.  A pure childish, self destruct approach.  It looks so messed up & arrogant from here, hard to know what to say or how to explain/defend it.
So sadly, barring a miracle, we are at the point where the UK needs to get on with it, business and economy crash, and (To my great sadness) normal people hard impacted, blame Europe, spin and repeat.  The sooner it is done the easier it will be (from here anyway) for basically good people to finally separate spin from reality and fix some of what we break.
I just hope now there was a leader somewhere coming forward with influence and credibility who could put the real facts on the table and address the real issues.  The "will of the people" spin and blame is killing the country. Politics replaced by selfishness, aggression, bullshit & buffoonery. 
It will get much worse for now, but I am sure will not be easily sustainable setup after a no deal exit and losing the alliance, weight and security of our ex-European partners. 
UK will need a major reset after this mess gets done.  We then will need see a new leader step forward to fix this mess.  God help the UK if Parliament continues as messed up as it is.

[Zeb]

Tough day in here for those proposing the greens as the 'sensible' choice for the next election, that idea proposed by Lucas is as much a turn off and just plain bad as near enough anything else suggested in the past 3 years.

Here's an idea to get past the divisive identity driven politics of Brexit, lets put together an all female cabinet.

Embarrassing stuff.

Every chance the Lib Dems or the Greens get to step up and show they *might* be a reasonable alternative their expose themselves as either being closeted tories for the former or woefully out of their depth for the latter.

Are you having much success on the doorstep with that line?

RIP Left Bloc.

[classycarra]

Tough day in here for those proposing the greens as the 'sensible' choice for the next election, that idea proposed by Lucas is as much a turn off and just plain bad as near enough anything else suggested in the past 3 years.

Here's an idea to get past the divisive identity driven politics of Brexit, lets put together an all female cabinet.

Embarrassing stuff.

Every chance the Lib Dems or the Greens get to step up and show they *might* be a reasonable alternative their expose themselves as either being closeted tories for the former or woefully out of their depth for the latter.

Never voted for them before, so I can't pretend to speak for them. But if one 'policy' being announced, and then catching some flak in the media and then requiring some clarification/tweaking afterwards as plain bad then I wonder what you must make of Corbyn's policies. At one point, when they were still into parliamentary politics, there were two or three of those a week.

[ShakaHislop]

To be fair I think lucas is spot on. I think British politics needs shaking up, it's full of stuffy old men from the same background, doing and thinking the same thing. It's like a bloody gentleman's club. Her idea is wild and radical, but maybe this will ruffle a few feathers. It's not too say her idea can't be opened up to include men eventually. But maybe getting this off the ground needs new tact, a group of strong women forming a strong coherent plan is better than watching corbyn be a wet lettuce in a group trying to form a coup but no idea how to lead it, or knowing what he really wants to achieve. As for the other men within politics at the moment I can't think of many who would be good leading this country against Brexit. She may shoot herself in the foot, it might not work but by god I'm behind her for actually trying. There's very few people in politics I actually have faith or believe in anymore, but I've met lucas a few times, and I don't think she's crazy, I think she's strong and calculated at just the right times. I don't believe she'll allow men to shout her down, she'll give as good as she gets. I for one would love to see it work. At the very least it'll get people talking. I can't wait for the sexist male pigs to come out the woodwork and say a group of women running the country bless them, or who do they think they are?

Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, corbyn or lucas? Real tough choice there......

Lucas' comments are sexist.

[ShakaHislop]

Tough day in here for those proposing the greens as the 'sensible' choice for the next election, that idea proposed by Lucas is as much a turn off and just plain bad as near enough anything else suggested in the past 3 years.

Here's an idea to get past the divisive identity driven politics of Brexit, lets put together an all female cabinet.

Embarrassing stuff.

Every chance the Lib Dems or the Greens get to step up and show they *might* be a reasonable alternative their expose themselves as either being closeted tories for the former or woefully out of their depth for the latter.

Yeah, boo hiss "identity politics"

[filopastry]

Owen Jones is the king of identity politics on twitter surely!

(For what its worth I do think the comments from Lucas were pretty stupid)

[Cpt_Reina]

Never voted for them before, so I can't pretend to speak for them. But if one 'policy' being announced, and then catching some flak in the media and then requiring some clarification/tweaking afterwards as plain bad then I wonder what you must make of Corbyn's policies. At one point, when they were still into parliamentary politics, there were two or three of those a week.

I mean we seem to have arrived at the point whereby the environmental party in our political landscape seems to be heavily lobbying and invested in remaining inside the EU who are doing relatively little to combat climate change as Europe literally burns up around it. And also well up for inviting the pro fracking Tories inside to enable it.

But at least they're not confused about their policies as you say.

[filopastry]

I mean we seem to have arrived at the point whereby the environmental party in our political landscape seems to be heavily lobbying and invested in remaining inside the EU who are doing relatively little to combat climate change as Europe literally burns up around it. And also well up for inviting the pro fracking Tories inside to enable it.

But at least they're not confused about their policies as you say.

I'm not sure the premise that the EU is doing relatively little to combat climate change really stands up when we live in a world where climate change is clearly a global problem and needs global solutions and the west's largest polluter has leadership that happily ignores the problem. But ok if you think the EU is the main problem so be it.

Whether you think the EU is doing enough or not (and let's be honest which countries really are) surely UK Greens would believe they would have greater influence on decarbonising the EU economy from within rather than by leaving.

If you want to find any kind of solution to climate change it will need greater international cooperation and enforcement not a race to the bottom pursuing some kind of populist nationalist agenda which will actively make intl cooperation much less likely.

[Zeb]

In her public letter to try and establish the broadest possible common ground to prevent 'no deal', Lucas didn't mention Iraq either so I think we can safely say she's now a Blairite.

[Cpt_Reina]

I'm not sure the premise that the EU is doing relatively little to combat climate change really stands up when we live in a world where climate change is clearly a global problem and needs global solutions and the west's largest polluter has leadership that happily ignores the problem. But ok if you think the EU is the main problem so be it.

Whether you think the EU is doing enough or not (and let's be honest which countries really are) surely UK Greens would believe they would have greater influence on decarbonising the EU economy from within rather than by leaving.

If you want to find any kind of solution to climate change it will need greater international cooperation and enforcement not a race to the bottom pursuing some kind of populist nationalist agenda which will actively make intl cooperation much less likely.

All well and good but if the appetite to make meaningful change at the expense of enriching its member states isn't there from the EU (as certainly appears to be the case) then what use is the membership to the green party?

[oldfordie]

EU climate action

Preventing dangerous climate change is a key priority for the European Union. Europe is working hard to cut its greenhouse gas emissions substantially while encouraging other nations and regions to do likewise.

Key EU targets for 2020
20% cut in greenhouse gas emissions compared with 1990
20% of total energy consumption from renewable energy
20% increase in energy efficiency

Regulation
The EU's emissions trading system is the key tool for reducing greenhouse gas emissions from industry at the lowest cost.
EU countries are required to support renewable energy sources such as wind, solar and biomass to reach the green energy targets.
EU countries have to reduce the energy use of their buildings and industries are required to improve the energy efficiency of a wide array of equipment and household appliances.
Car manufacturers have to reduce CO2 emissions from new cars and vans.
Key EU targets for 2030
At least 40% cut in greenhouse gas emissions compared with 1990
At least 32% of total energy consumption from renewable energy
At least 32.5% increase in energy efficiency

Long-term goal
By 2050, the EU aims to cut its emissions substantially – by 80-95% compared to 1990 levels as part of the efforts required by developed countries as a group.

Turning Europe into a highly energy efficient and low-carbon economy will also boost the economy, create jobs and strengthen Europe's competitiveness.

Action towards climate targets

The EU is pursuing its climate targets through a combination of financial support and regulation.

Financial support

At least 20% of the EU's budget for 2014 to 2020 - as much as €180 billion - should be spent on protecting the climate. This is on top of funding from individual EU countries.
The EU finances low-carbon energy demonstration projects from the sale of emission certificates. This includes technologies to trap carbon dioxide from power stations and other industrial installations and store it in the ground, so-called carbon capture and storage (CCS)
https://ec.europa.eu/clima/citizens/eu_en

[classycarra]

I mean we seem to have arrived at the point whereby the environmental party in our political landscape seems to be heavily lobbying and invested in remaining inside the EU who are doing relatively little to combat climate change as Europe literally burns up around it. And also well up for inviting the pro fracking Tories inside to enable it.

So you're saying you wouldn't mind a brexit (no deal or otherwise), because the EU aren't doing enough for you in combating climate change?