Topic: Never mind 'Stop the Boats' - STOP THE TORIES

[So… Howard Philips]

It’s far from assured. They’re getting this stuff out of the way early in the hope it’s impact has been ‘baked in’ by the next election. The Tories will give some kind of tax cut for the middle and bottom earners and go in massively on cultural division and immigration - blaming foreigners and minorities for everything wrong.

And Labour are bound to have some ‘shoot themselves in the foot moments’ as well.

If Labour get into power what can they realistically do to make a big change? The Tories will have cashed in the family silver, mortgaged the castle and used the inheritance as collateral for the massive loans they’ve taken out. So little room for for manoeuvre.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Yeah. in EU MEP PR Elections to keep the Torys and the kippers out of power.
It was never hypocrisy, it was about tactical voting to keep the Torys and the Kippers out of power, I hope people do the same in similar circumstances at the next GE. obviously vote Labour if Labour have a chance of winning the seat but vote Lib Dem if they have too to get the Torys out if they are the only serious opposition in that seat.

Sorry mate but here is a video of AC telling us why he voted LD, it was a criticism of Labour and no mention of tactical voting.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-48417885

For context I only mentioned it following posts from Filo and John C. It was a European election, so like Filo's example (Council) not the end of the world. 
John mentioned "the trouble with RAWK..."   I would add onto that, those who get annoyed by criticism of the current leader whilst being themselves critical of previous leaders.  Or those who wont vote for the Leader they don't like, but expect others to blindly vote for a leader they like, but who others might not like.
It seems some Labour leaders are more equal than others.

There is no point in giving reasons and examples of why one leader is better than an other, its subjective and completely misses the point. 

[Kenny's Jacket]

It’s far from assured. They’re getting this stuff out of the way early in the hope it’s impact has been ‘baked in’ by the next election. The Tories will give some kind of tax cut for the middle and bottom earners and go in massively on cultural division and immigration - blaming foreigners and minorities for everything wrong.

So we need to get a GE before its baked in. According to Tories, we dont need an election as they are in the middle of delivering on a manifesto that got them elected. That manifesto has just been shat on.
I think this "fiscal event" makes it easy to move away from the damaging culture wars and back onto the economy.

Ive also heard we had 13 years of new Labour without the additional tax bracket.  It was Brown who implemented this tax. By th
time it got  implemented Cameron was at No10 and he reduced Browns policy from 50% to 45%.

We're gonna win surely. 

I might have a cheeky fiver that the next PM to face a GE isnt Truss. 

[reddebs]

There's lots of talk about stupidity in here.

The voting public.
The Cabinet.
Tory Politicians.

Then there's Ideology v Hypocrisy.

No matter how bad things get for the vast majority of the country "Stupidity" will win over Ideology and Hypocracy every single time.

Stupid has learnt that ideology is ok sometimes if and when it suits and hyprocacy works if it suits the ideology. 

That's because stupid is flexible but with one goal in mind.  It doesn't care if it treads on ideologies toes or if hypocracy screams and shouts, it's only focus is the end goal. 

Which is to Win.

I also believe that there is a huge majority in this country who enjoy being bullies, cruelly enjoying rubbing the noses of the downtrodden further into the dirt. 

These "stupid" don't care they're also one of the downtrodden so long as they can piggy back on the euphoria of being seen to be evil.

Nothing in the last 70-80 years has changed the status quo.  We've learnt absolutely fucking nothing!!

[TSC]

It’s appears this mob are adopting a full on ‘scorched earth’ policy.  Story in the guardian today about how Rees-Mogg has demanded that ‘every cubic inch’ of gas in the North Sea (for what’s left) is extracted.

He has the cheek to say this option is the most environmentally friendly route as it means we won’t have to rely on gas imports.

Goes on to say the public need to be persuaded that fossil fuels are the answer.

Seems to be the worse choice to have responsibility for energy when much of the world is tuned into climate change challenges.

[redbyrdz]

There's lots of talk about stupidity in here.

The voting public.
The Cabinet.
Tory Politicians.

Then there's Ideology v Hypocrisy.

No matter how bad things get for the vast majority of the country "Stupidity" will win over Ideology and Hypocracy every single time.

Stupid has learnt that ideology is ok sometimes if and when it suits and hyprocacy works if it suits the ideology. 

That's because stupid is flexible but with one goal in mind.  It doesn't care if it treads on ideologies toes or if hypocracy screams and shouts, it's only focus is the end goal. 

Which is to Win.

I also believe that there is a huge majority in this country who enjoy being bullies, cruelly enjoying rubbing the noses of the downtrodden further into the dirt. 

These "stupid" don't care they're also one of the downtrodden so long as they can piggy back on the euphoria of being seen to be evil.

Nothing in the last 70-80 years has changed the status quo.  We've learnt absolutely fucking nothing!!

This, sadly, is absolutely right.

[Jshooters]

Have I missed something? Is there a contract in place that says all fossil fuel extracted in the UK can only be sold to UK suppliers because that’s the implication this lot are always making

[TSC]

Have I missed something? Is there a contract in place that says all fossil fuel extracted in the UK can only be sold to UK suppliers because that’s the implication this lot are always making

This lot don’t do detail.  Why bother when soundbites suffice.  You’re correct of course.  In the absence of legislation suppliers will sell to the buyer willing to pay the most, irrespective of location.

Neither is there any incentive to legislate when apparently the big providers funded Truss’s campaign for leadership.  Notwithstanding any personal financial interest the cabal may have in said providers.

[Flaccido Dongingo]

It’s appears this mob are adopting a full on ‘scorched earth’ policy.  Story in the guardian today about how Rees-Mogg has demanded that ‘every cubic inch’ of gas in the North Sea (for what’s left) is extracted.

He has the cheek to say this option is the most environmentally friendly route as it means we won’t have to rely on gas imports.

Goes on to say the public need to be persuaded that fossil fuels are the answer.

Seems to be the worse choice to have responsibility for energy when much of the world is tuned into climate change challenges.

I was actually shocked and grudgingly impressed with the opposition from the Tory backbenchers when Moggy was trying to bullshit Parliament about fracking.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Have I missed something? Is there a contract in place that says all fossil fuel extracted in the UK can only be sold to UK suppliers because that’s the implication this lot are always making

They could insist on anything they can get they can get the E&P company to agree to. Guaranteed price for UK markets etc. However they wont.  Product sharing contracts are easily implemented.

[TepidT2O]

They could insist on anything they can get they can get the E&P company to agree to. Guaranteed price for UK markets etc. However they wont.  Product sharing contracts are easily implemented.

Yeah, but they won’t, so it makes no sense

[Kenny's Jacket]

Yeah, but they won’t, so it makes no sense

One of them, I think, has already said fracking wont reduce prices.  This poses two questions

Why dont you do a deal at a certain price for the UK market, so it will reduce prices.
If you are not setting the price, why bother.

[TepidT2O]

One of them, I think, has already said fracking wont reduce prices.  This poses two questions

Why dont you do a deal at a certain price for the UK market, so it will reduce prices.
If you are not setting the price, why bother.

They’re only earthquakes, lots of other countries have them, get over it…etc etc…

[Kenny's Jacket]

They’re only earthquakes, lots of other countries have them, get over it…etc etc…

Telling Blackpool to suck it up to take one for the team so we can heat and eat, is one thing, but telling them to suck it up so companies can make more profit, is quite another.

Luddites. 

[Jiminy Cricket]

Re: how do we get rid of this government before the end of the term?

What is the procedure for recalling an MP? If things get as bad as we fear, then what about targeting a few vulnerable Tory MPs, and assuming they are removed but this has no effect upon the Party, then try a broader recall.

I am not suggesting this would be easy, but given their 80-seat majority and if the Tories are determined to hang on, is there any other way to oust them? I Do not think the country can survive another 2 years of this.

[Elmo!]

Re: how do we get rid of this government before the end of the term?

What is the procedure for recalling an MP? If things get as bad as we fear, then what about targeting a few vulnerable Tory MPs, and assuming they are removed but this has no effect upon the Party, then try a broader recall.

I am not suggesting this would be easy, but given their 80-seat majority and if the Tories are determined to hang on, is there any other way to oust them? I Do not think the country can survive another 2 years of this.

You can only have a recall petition if an MP serves a custodial sentence or is suspended from the HoC for a certain period (something like 10 days? Can't remember).

[Jiminy Cricket]

You can only have a recall petition if an MP serves a custodial sentence or is suspended from the HoC for a certain period (something like 10 days? Can't remember).

Urgh. So, there is NO mechanism for removing rogue MPs/Parliament. I am not suggesting that it should be easy, but it surely should be possible.

What can the King do? Not that I am suggesting that he would do anything.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Re: how do we get rid of this government before the end of the term?

The only way is to shame them into needing a mandate. Their current claim to a mandate is they asre the elected party, but they have changed their manifesto and ideology quite a lot.

Trouble is they have no shame to weaponise.

What is the procedure for recalling an MP? If things get as bad as we fear, then what about targeting a few vulnerable Tory MPs, and assuming they are removed but this has no effect upon the Party, then try a broader recall.

.
Constituents cant just start proceedings, the MP has to commit a wrong doing.  Its pissing in the wind

[Elmo!]

Maybe what we need is a mass campaign to lie on opinion polls and pretend we are going to vote Tory so they get a false sense hope over their chances winning an election...

[oldfordie]

Sorry mate but here is a video of AC telling us why he voted LD, it was a criticism of Labour and no mention of tactical voting.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-48417885

For context I only mentioned it following posts from Filo and John C. It was a European election, so like Filo's example (Council) not the end of the world. 
John mentioned "the trouble with RAWK..."   I would add onto that, those who get annoyed by criticism of the current leader whilst being themselves critical of previous leaders.  Or those who wont vote for the Leader they don't like, but expect others to blindly vote for a leader they like, but who others might not like.
It seems some Labour leaders are more equal than others.

There is no point in giving reasons and examples of why one leader is better than an other, its subjective and completely misses the point.

Thanks Kenny. I got it wrong. am not trying to twist the facts but he was only talking about the MEP elections not a GE, many people did the same and very few people had a problem with it. I knew he had talked about voting tactically which this video below shows.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AhFyOZK8y4

[Kenny's Jacket]

Thanks Kenny. I got it wrong. am not trying to twist the facts but he was only talking about the MEP elections not a GE, many people did the same and very few people had a problem with it. I knew he had talked about voting tactically which this video below shows.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AhFyOZK8y4

AC was on the Last Leg last night, he was very funny to be fair to him.

[Andy82lfc]

Just imagine if the majority of media in this country were not ran by right wing owners desperate to keep these in power, possible they could push the public into an all out revolution with the ammunition there is to throw at them right now. They are tearing the country apart to grab all they can before the surely inevitable ousting of them in 2 years time. (Fuck me still 2 more years).

[Red Raw]

There was a puff piece on Newsnight about Kwarteng with some people who met him bigging him up. Honestly they think we are stupid and some people are still seduced by a grasp of English and a high paid education.

Kwarteng, Truss and i would say the vast majority of MP’s range from downright dumb to mediocre at best. The PM and Chancellor are not bright, they have nothing about them and there is not a single thing that we need to avoid underestimating.

I don't think Truss/Kwarteng/Braverman are the problem (for the record I don't believe any of them are capable of independent thought), but then they don't have to be smart to trot out the neoliberal tropes that are provided for them.

Truss has drawn her special advisors from:

• Institute of Economic Affairs (IEA)
• Policy Exchange
• Taxpayers’ Alliance
• Centre for Policy Studies
• Adam Smith Institute

All are driven by dark money (oligarchs, the Mercers, fossil fuels etc.) and rank at the very bottom of the Transparify league table for opaqueness about their funding. A point was made yesterday that previously these groups operated as lobbyists but now, through Truss/Kwarteng, there are effectively in government.

Kwarteng's 'budget' was not the result of any considered economic discussion or modelling (hence no OBR report), it is effctively an oven-ready, unabated IEA wishlist.

The dark money people and disaster capitalists like Redwood, Mogg & Co will be patting themselves on the back at how clever they have been shifting their assets from GBP to USD. As UK plc tanks and the firesale commences they will be in a prime position to buy back GBP and will be hoovering up our assets at a fraction of the cost.

[Circa1892]

Rayner says this morning Labour would rervwrse the 45% cut for the rich. The Scum report it as they’d reverse the 19p and the weird fucking c*nt Kwarteng tweets the scum saying “Labour tax rise for millions” - honestly the smug lying bastards need to be gone.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Rayner says this morning Labour would rervwrse the 45% cut for the rich. The Scum report it as they’d reverse the 19p and the weird fucking c*nt Kwarteng tweets the scum saying “Labour tax rise for millions” - honestly the smug lying bastards need to be gone.

Really?  Steve Read has said they would have to make their mind at the time, depending on how economy was.

[Machae]

Rayner says this morning Labour would rervwrse the 45% cut for the rich. The Scum report it as they’d reverse the 19p and the weird fucking c*nt Kwarteng tweets the scum saying “Labour tax rise for millions” - honestly the smug lying bastards need to be gone.

Detailing your strategy for tax rises isn't a clever ploy just yet. You could see the response from the rwm and Tories a mile off

[So… Howard Philips]

Detailing your strategy for tax rises isn't a clever ploy just yet. You could see the response from the rwm and Tories a mile off

I suppose with the Party Conference coming up they have to show they are on the front foot.

[Wabaloolah]

He’s an unpopular government ever called an early election? Only ones I can remember were when the party in power was leading in the polls and assumed victory.

Heath in February 1974 with the country in a similar crisis to today I guess would be the most recent arguable example, although technically May in 2017 called an election to get Brexit done and totally fucked it up

[west_london_red]

Heath in February 1974 with the country in a similar crisis to today I guess would be the most recent arguable example, although technically May in 2017 called an election to get Brexit done and totally fucked it up

Heath was before my time, and May called the election when she had a healthy lead in the polls if I remember correctly but fucked up the campaign so understandable why she called it, just not the result everyone expected.

[west_london_red]

Maybe what we need is a mass campaign to lie on opinion polls and pretend we are going to vote Tory so they get a false sense hope over their chances winning an election...

Have you ever been invited to take part in an opinion poll? Never been asked myself

[Red-Soldier]

Heath in February 1974 with the country in a similar crisis to today I guess would be the most recent arguable example, although technically May in 2017 called an election to get Brexit done and totally fucked it up

When growing up, I had to constantly listen to stuff about what happened in the 70s (under the last Labout government).  Nobody told me that it was the Tories that fucked the country previously (I had to learn that part myself).

[jillcwhomever]

How long has Truss been in the job now? She's even managed to get the RSPB marching against government policy!

[Wabaloolah]

Heath was before my time, and May called the election when she had a healthy lead in the polls if I remember correctly but fucked up the campaign so understandable why she called it, just not the result everyone expected.

yes agree about May, they fully expected to win a handsome majority but the campaign was a disaster and Corbyn had a very good one in comparison.

The February 1974 one is interesting, Labour had a lead in the polls pretty much for the whole of the parliamentary term, during the campaign though the polls turned in the Tories favour and they won the popular vote but lost their majority and Labour has more seats

[Wabaloolah]

When growing up, I had to constantly listen to stuff about what happened in the 70s (under the last Labout government).  Nobody told me that it was the Tories that fucked the country previously (I had to learn that part myself).

oh 100% the Tories left Labour to clear up the mess they had created and yep Labour got blamed and we ended up with Thatcher.  I can see history repeating itself. I think we desperately need electoral reform and it might be for the best if there is a hung parliament and Labour need the support of the Liberals etc.

It will be contraversial but in those circumstances there should not be a referendum to decide but just put an Electoral Reform Bill before the Commons

[Wabaloolah]

How long has Truss been in the job now? She's even managed to get the RSPB marching against government policy!

less than three weeks!!

[Red-Soldier]

How long has Truss been in the job now? She's even managed to get the RSPB marching against government policy!

This is why:

Government poised to scrap nature ‘Brexit bonus’ for farmers

Defra accused of ‘all-out attack’ on environment by wildlife groups

The government is to scrap the “Brexit bonus” which would have paid farmers and landowners to enhance nature, in what wildlife groups are calling an “all-out attack” on the environment, the Observer can reveal.

Instead, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) sources disclosed, they are considering paying landowners a yearly set sum for each acre of land they own, which would be similar to the much-maligned EU basic payments scheme of the common agricultural policy.

The Environment Land Management Scheme (Elms), devised by the former environment secretary Fuckwitted Pob lookalike Michael Gove, was constructed to encourage farmers to create space for rare species including wading birds and dormice, as well as absorbing carbon to help England reach its net zero target. Pilot schemes have created rare habitats and brought back species including nightingales, beavers and white stork.

Now, landowners and land managers who have been part of Elms have told the Observer that meetings with the government about their land have been removed from the diary as the scheme goes on pause.

Defra sources confirmed that Elms measures are under review and area-based payment is on the table.

Daniel Zeichner, the Labour MP for Cambridge and shadow farming minister, said this was a “complete betrayal of something that they said would be one of the key benefits of Brexit”. Many farmers had changed how they use their land because of the forthcoming Elms requirements.

He added: “Any reversal of the scheme would be highly disruptive to the sector; we agreed with the broad direction of it, although we did think the government was moving too quickly.

“This is a complete step back from their promises, and to tear it up without any consultation would be nothing short of mindless vandalism.”

The prominent Conservative Ben Goldsmith, a former Defra board member, said he was disgusted by the plans. He commented: “There are rumours that the government is considering resuscitating an old subsidy scheme in which landowners across the country will be paid per acre of land that they own, no matter how well they care for it. In 2022 – surely not.

“A system governed by the principle of public money (only) for public environmental good is a much better idea than unconditional subsidies for landowners. Let’s hope the government sticks to the course.”

Wildlife groups are set to revolt over the move. Craig Bennett, chief executive of the Wildlife Trusts, which has 860,000 members, said: “They have no democratic mandate to do this, it was in the election manifesto. What you’ve seen in the space of the last week is Liz Truss’s government basically trashing all the environmental commitments that were in the 2019 manifesto.

“If now, this government is going back to area-based payments, then it will have dumped the one silver lining around Brexit that perhaps might have been good for the environment. It seems there is an all-out attack on the environment under Liz Truss’s government.”

Shaun Spiers, executive director of Green Alliance, said: “I cannot believe a government committed to ‘the most ambitious environmental programme of any country on Earth’ would do anything as reckless with taxpayers’ money. It would make the budget look like a model of caution and prudence.”

Isabella Tree, who runs the Knepp Estate in Sussex, was supposed to operate one of the government’s flagship landscape recovery schemes. Her area is pioneering nature-friendly farming and is a recipient of nature recovery funding, and she is the author of perhaps the world’s best-known rewilding manual, Wilding.

She said: “Elms has been four years of deep thinking about the future, millions of hours spent by thousands of people from all sectors, about how we can reform land management so we don’t destroy the systems we depend on, so we have an agronomy, a land base and natural resources that will sustain us for generations to come.

“For once there was long-term vision from government. And to think that all of that effort and all that time and dedication and deep understanding is just being tossed aside beggars belief..”

The National Farmers’ Union has been pushing back against plans to pay farmers for nature schemes rather than food production.

Minette Batters, the NFU president, welcomed the departure from Elms. “My absolute priority is ensuring that farmers can continue to produce the nation’s food – so I do support maintaining direct payments in order to build a scheme that really will deliver for food production and the environment,” she said.

A Defra spokesperson did not deny the change was to take place, and said:

“To boost the rural economy, food production and our food security, we will continue to support farmers and land managers by reviewing farm regulation, boosting investment and innovation in the sector.”

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/sep/24/brexit-bonus-farmers-poised-to-scrap

[jillcwhomever]

It is also about the mini budget, and it's plans to develop on nature habitats.

RSPB England 🌍
@RSPBEngland
⚠️😡Make no mistake, we are angry. This Government has today launched an attack on nature. We don’t use the words that follow lightly. We are entering uncharted territory.  Please read this thread. 1/13

As of today, from Cornwall to Cumbria, Norfolk to Nottingham wildlife is facing one of the greatest threats it’s faced in decades.  2/13

What the Government has proposed in today’s mini-budget on top of yesterday’s announcements potentially tears up the most fundamental legal protections our remaining wildlife has.  3/13

If they carry out their plans nowhere will be safe. This map shows legally protected areas in purple and orange (the SACs and SPAs) mapped on to districts, in green, that want investment zones.  Places where anything could be built anywhere. And these are just the start. 4/13

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdW0g08WIAEvIUC?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

“Releasing more land” they call it  5/13


HM Treasury
@hmtreasury
The government has agreement in principle with 38 areas to establish tax-cutting Investment Zones which will drive growth & unlock housing development. 

 Work will also begin with Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland to agree zones in these locations

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdU4Qc-XkAAnkLH?format=jpg&name=large

And it doesn’t stop there – the new Retained EU Laws Bill could see the end of basic protections known as the Habitat Regulations. Laws that protect our birds and animals, everywhere from forests to our coasts.  6/13

Where you live, the wildlife and places you love, from the shires to the cities – all under threat from bulldozers, from concrete.  7/13

For now, this is focussed on England, but the intent is clear for this to extend across the UK.  8/13

And the real tragedy is this: the utter lack of understanding by ministers that healthy nature underpins a healthy society and a healthy economy. Have they even read their own report?  9/13

https://t.co/sLgvAmizzf

We cannot let this happen. And now more than ever nature needs your help. We need to make it abundantly clear that we will not stand for this.  10/13

We are currently planning a mass mobilisation of our members and supporters. More news on this next week.  11/13

But right now, we have one simple ask: tell your MP how you feel. Impress on them that the Government doesn’t do this in your name.  12/13

If ever nature has needed you, it’s now.  13/13

[oldfordie]

This is why:

Government poised to scrap nature ‘Brexit bonus’ for farmers

Defra accused of ‘all-out attack’ on environment by wildlife groups

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/sep/24/brexit-bonus-farmers-poised-to-scrap

Have this image of the Tory fanatics sat around a table listening to suggestions on things they want passing, reaction is , Why not. pass as much shit as possible. more the merrier. impossible for the opposition or media to concentrate on one issue. what would of been front page news doesn't even get a look in as theres so much other shit going on. it's deliberate. a plan.

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

Ahhh, back to paying landowners simply for owning land. The bad old days... And the good landowners that both produce food and practice regenerative agriculture? Fuck em.

This is a government of nihilists. What is it they care about except power and wealth? Nothing, that I can see. Nothing at all.

[west_london_red]

This is why:

Government poised to scrap nature ‘Brexit bonus’ for farmers

Defra accused of ‘all-out attack’ on environment by wildlife groups

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/sep/24/brexit-bonus-farmers-poised-to-scrap

Farmers seemed to be quite Pro-Brexit so they got what they asked for.