Author Topic: Nobby's Green Thread. A great party with great ideas. A great bunch of lads!  (Read 51767 times)

Offline RobbieRedman

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Re: The Greens
« Reply #200 on: November 11, 2014, 10:43:40 am »

Online macca007

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Re: The Greens
« Reply #201 on: November 29, 2014, 05:00:20 am »
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/green-party-wants-corporate-tax-to-fund-universities-9886092.html

Natalie Bennett, leader of the Green Party, has set out proposals to pay for higher education with enforced taxation on multinational companies.
“Last year [Amazon] paid 0.01 per cent of their turnover in tax. That means they’re a parasite,” Ms Bennett said yesterday. She argued that tougher business taxes could help pay for universities.
“If you want to do business in Britain, you [should] have to say every other country where you do business, how many staff you have there and what your turnover is.”

Ms Bennett was fielding questions in the first of five debates hosted by Bite the Ballot with ITV and The Independent’s sister newspaper i, giving young people the opportunity to question the nation’s political leaders.

Offline lfcderek

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Re: The Greens
« Reply #202 on: November 29, 2014, 08:24:11 pm »
That came as a surprise!
I would have thought my free-market views would have put me further right
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Online macca007

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Re: The Greens
« Reply #203 on: December 3, 2014, 11:43:04 pm »
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/dec/03/leaving-labour-green-party-social-change

I’ve been loyal for 30 years – but now I’m leaving Labour for the Green party
Richard Stein
Labour is no longer a radical campaigning force for social change, nor is it for working people. It’s time to move on
Ed Miliband
 'Labour’s jumping on the Ukip anti-immigration bandwagon reflects the party leadership’s lack of clear direction.' Photograph: Nigel Roddis/Getty Images
Wednesday 3 December 2014 13.52 GMT

Last week, after over 30 years of being a Labour party member, I left – and joined the Green party. The events of that week were the final straw for me. It had already become clear that the Labour party was never going to recover from the poison of Blairism and return to being the radical campaigning force for social change it once was.

Having come a poor third in the Rochester byelection, a seat that had been held by Labour until 2010, and after Ed Miliband’s disastrous handling of the Emily Thornberry white van fiasco, it became obvious to me that there wasn’t even a realistic prospect of a centrist Labour defeating the Tories in 2015.

I joined the Labour party in the early 1980s to take a stand against the Thatcherite attacks on the welfare state, put in place after the war. Although there were fierce arguments about the way forward, there was no doubt about the party’s identity, firmly based as it was in the Labour movement, as the party of working people. It was also a democratic organisation where members were able to change party policy at party conference.

Blair and New Labour’s distancing from the Labour movement and embrace of “the market” as the answer to Britain’s problems, rather than the reversing of Tory attacks on the marginalised sections of our society, delivered a critical blow to Labour. The slavish following of George W Bush, with his reactionary and misguided foreign policy of regime change, into the Iraq war was appalling. It ended any hope of an ethical foreign policy.

New Labour wrongly obsessed about choice – in pensions, health and education. Unfortunately it deprived us of the most important choice – the choice of the Labour party as a radical alternative to the Tories.

I voted for Ed Miliband in the 2010 leadership election. He seemed to me to hold the best prospect of a clear shift away from the awful legacy of New Labour. Unfortunately, that has not happened. Perhaps it was unrealistic to think it could happen, since the whole current generation of Labour politicians collaborated without protest in Blair’s government.

When they oppose the policies of the government they are met with the response that the coalition is only continuing the work started by New Labour. The most graphic example of this is Andy Burnham’s vocal opposition to privatisation of the NHS. The Tories are right to point out that this was the Labour government’s policy when he was health secretary.

Labour’s jumping on the Ukip anti-immigration bandwagon reflects the party leadership’s lack of clear direction. Unwilling to take a principled stand on such fundamental issues, they prefer to take a populist position in the hope of winning a few more votes. The Rochester byelection result, and the opinion polls, show that they are lurching towards a defeat next year, which will let the Tories back in to carry on their reactionary agenda that looks after their rich and powerful friends.

Until recently, there has been no credible radical campaigning force in British politics. Over the last decade or so I have met so many people who share my views but who couldn’t find a political home. Many of them have now joined the Greens. The election of Caroline Lucas in Brighton in 2010 and new Green councillors around the country building on the European parliament and London assembly seats is creating a critical mass for real progressive change in Britain.

The Green surge this year, both in membership and support in the opinion polls (at the same time as the Lib Dem collapse), means that in many areas it provides a real alternative political voice. It is an organisation with a democratic structure where members decide party policy, and its radical programme reflects many of my socialist views. Refreshingly, women play leading roles.

The current two-and-a-half-party setup is facing major challenges but not just, as the media suggests, from Ukip on the radical right. The next year provides an opportunity for the Greens to become the strong left voice Britain so desperately needs. I’m going to play my part in making sure this happens.
« Last Edit: December 3, 2014, 11:46:25 pm by macca007 »

Offline scumbagcollege

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Re: The Green Party
« Reply #204 on: December 12, 2014, 10:39:29 am »
Following the Rochester by-election we find ourselves in a political landscape where Ukip are becoming more and more popular. The latest opinion polls give them 15-18 per cent of the vote, putting them third, ahead of the Lib Dems.
But how much of this is about media exposure, protest votes and right wing dissatisfaction with the Tories, and how much is actually about their policies? What if we could see a poll based solely on policies? Who would be winning that, and where would Ukip come?

Well it just so happens we can, and the results, taken from nearly half a million people, are enlightening to say the least.

They go like this – Green Party 26.35 per cent, Labour 20.12 per cent, Lib Dems 17 per cent, Conservatives 14 per cent, UKIP 12 per cent, BNP 10 per cent. That’s the Greens up from fifth to first, the Conservatives down from second to fourth and Ukip bringing up the rear with the BNP.

Voteforpolicies.org.uk is responsible for the poll in question, a social enterprise set up with the goal of engaging more people in the political process. It works by asking people to make blind choices for parties, based on their policies in key areas. Okay, so it’s not totally blind, as it’s quite simple to tell which policy belongs to which party in the most obvious areas - like the Greens on environment, the BNP on Immigration or Ukip on Europe - but in areas like democracy, crime and education, the differences can be far less evident.

It does leave some questions unanswered however: if the Greens are the most popular party based on policies, why are they fifth in the regular opinion polls, with just 5 per cent? And why are Ukip plunging the depths at second from bottom, rather than reaching for the skies in third? The answer must be media coverage.
Nothing proves the adage that any publicity is better than no publicity better than Ukip. This was summed up most succinctly by Ukip’s newest MP Mark Reckless, who was caught on film just before the by-election espousing an immigration policy towards which was dodgy even by Ukip’s standards, yet he still won the seat. It just serves to prove, it doesn’t matter what you condone, as long as it gets you on TV.

On the other hand, the Greens are the beggars at the media banquet. This is because good news is no news. The fact that the Green MP Caroline Lucas, for example, fights for her constituents and sticks up for the things she believes in, doesn’t get her many headlines.


The other reason, of course, is our ridiculous electoral system which means if you live in certain parts of the country, any vote but one or two is wasted, thus destroying the very notion of democracy.

What can we do about this? In the long run, we need to move to the Alternative Vote system, but what about for the forthcoming election? How can we overcome the cynical and apathetic ‘tactical voting’ which the system enforces on us?

It is a matter of faith – faith in ourselves to vote for the party whose policies we actually believe in, and faith in others that they will do the same. This kind of faith is based on confidence in solidarity. Sites like voteforpolicies.org.uk should give us that confidence that enough people want real change based on rational decision making, not just media hype or over-simplistic scapegoating.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/if-people-voted-for-policies-the-green-party-would-win-the-next-election-9887199.html

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Offline Bucke

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Re: The Green Party
« Reply #205 on: December 12, 2014, 12:18:48 pm »
Vote for Policies is my friend's website, he set it up after getting sick of people being so party biased without really understanding what their policies are about. It was after visiting the site in 2010 that I discovered I should vote Green, so I did
@johnbuckels

Offline Red Beret

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Re: The Green Party
« Reply #206 on: December 12, 2014, 01:33:52 pm »
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

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Offline brownie 09

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Re: The Green Party
« Reply #207 on: December 13, 2014, 09:35:06 pm »
just looked on that vote for policies got 75% green and 25% lib dem.

It shows you the results for of the constituency you are in as well using other peoples answers and combining them all, In my constituency 25% of people should vote for green, then 24% labour. UKIP tories and BNP all as the bottom three.

Offline NorthamptonKopite

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Re: The Green Party
« Reply #208 on: January 8, 2015, 09:44:07 pm »
I will definitely be voting green in the upcoming elections, hopefully real momentum will be built up in the next few months. Outrage that theh havent been included by ofcom as a major party when UKIP has. The powerful really will do anything to stop us having a voice.

Offline Peabee

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Re: The Green Party
« Reply #209 on: January 9, 2015, 12:30:45 am »
That's just a fancy way of calling for a purge. Which is a shame when you remember history is littered with scientific commonplaces which have subsequently been rejected - from witchcraft and alchemy to eugenics and phrenology.

By the way 'overwhelming' does not mean 'conclusive'. Even if it did I'd be wary of purging people who held views for which there's no evidence. I say that, too, as both an atheist and someone who believes there is a thing called man-made climate change.

That's pseudoscience though.   Science isn't a bunch of immutable facts nor is anything "proven", we accept falsification when the evidence is presented.   (Only mathematics has facts and theorems because it's a human construct.)  But anyone who presents views with no evidence can only be considered as having an opinion and has no credibility above that.  You can't base scientific climate policy on opinion.  You need to look at the empirical evidence. 
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Offline Red Beret

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I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

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Re: The Green Party
« Reply #211 on: January 9, 2015, 10:17:00 am »
I've voted green for the years now. They are the only party that have policies I actually agree with.
The rest are all identikit poshboys who still think they are in a debating competition at public school.
I stopped voting labour once it became apparent that the traditional labour MP was being phased out for the Tory-lite clones we have now.

Offline Trada

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Re: The Greens
« Reply #212 on: January 15, 2015, 01:17:14 pm »
Green parties overtaken Ukip with rapid 2,000 rise in memberships amid TV debate exclusion



The Green parties have overtaken Ukip in membership numbers with around 2,000 new sign-ups in the last 24 hours due to increased coverage over their exclusion from television debates.

The party saw a rapid increase in their membership number with a current total of 43,829 people signed up across the UK.

Natalie Bennett, the leader of the Greens in England and Wales told the London Live channel today that “there was an hour yesterday when a new person was joining every ten seconds.”

Ukip has confirmed 41,966 members as of present, which gives them a lead of 1,863.

The Greens, that are devolved for three separate regions of the nation, has 35,481 members in England and Wales, 8,026 in the Scottish branch and 322 in the Northern Ireland division.

Despite the current rising number of supporters, the Greens had not been considered by Ofcom to be a prominent enough group to qualify for air time in debating with other parties, according to an initial draft of major political groups made by the television regulator

Ms Bennett said they were “deeply disappointed” by the decision while Brighton MP Caroline Lucas called it “grossly unfair”. Ms Bennett wrote an open letter to the leaders of the three main parties asking them to lobby ITV channel for the inclusion of the Greens.

Conservative Prime Minister David Cameron has been accused by Labour leader Ed Miliband this week to have been “running scared” of participating in discussions during the run up to the general election on 7 May by using the exclusion of Bennett as an “excuse”.

Mr Miliband said that the debates should still go ahead and that the production teams should “empty-chair” Mr Cameron if ends up being a no-show.
Read more:
Green Party membership 'will overtake Ukip within a week'

The leader of the opposition had said on BBC1’s Andrew Marr Show: “He is running scared of these debates. I want these debates to happen, I think they should happen with David Cameron or without David Cameron.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/green-parties-overtaking-ukip-with-rapid-2000-rise-in-memberships-amid-tv-debate-exclusion-9979765.html
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

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Offline Trada

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Re: The Greens
« Reply #213 on: January 19, 2015, 12:19:40 pm »
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

“I carry them with me: what they would have thought and said and done. Make them a part of who I am. So even though they’re gone from the world they’re never gone from me.

Offline mulfella

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Re: The Greens
« Reply #214 on: January 19, 2015, 03:54:56 pm »
I joined last week in a massive strop at the utterly biased and disproportionate coverage UKIP get.
A place full of grammer Nazi's?
'Grammar' and no apostrophe in 'nazis'.

Offline Redman0151

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Re: The Greens
« Reply #215 on: January 19, 2015, 05:08:52 pm »
 Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn  ·  1h 1 hour ago

Huge surge for Greens in new @LordAshcroft poll. Benefiting from TV debate row; CON 29%, LAB 28%, LDEM 9%, UKIP 15%, GRN 11%.
"I would say we certainly have the resources to compete with anybody in football." Tom Werner 12/04/2012

Offline Trada

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Re: The Greens
« Reply #216 on: January 19, 2015, 06:06:56 pm »
Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn  ·  1h 1 hour ago

Huge surge for Greens in new @LordAshcroft poll. Benefiting from TV debate row; CON 29%, LAB 28%, LDEM 9%, UKIP 15%, GRN 11%.

I wonder if its because people are checking them out because of the debate row  and suddenly finding out about their policies and surprised it not all about wind farms and electric cars.
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

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Offline hide5seek

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Re: The Greens
« Reply #217 on: January 19, 2015, 06:18:58 pm »
Vote Green and we'll mend up with Tory party.

If we had PR voting Green would be worth it  but if 10/15% of the electorate vote Green no way will Labour win the election and the more people vote Green the more chance the Tory party wins out right.

The Tories win and you think 1mill food bank users will be the end of it? Bedroom tax will get over turned or that the scum won't come up with something ever more nastier for the poor to deal with? Cameron has already made it plain he wants to stop benefits for those under 25.

Offline Redman0151

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Re: The Greens
« Reply #218 on: January 19, 2015, 06:31:31 pm »
Vote Green and we'll mend up with Tory party.

If we had PR voting Green would be worth it  but if 10/15% of the electorate vote Green no way will Labour win the election and the more people vote Green the more chance the Tory party wins out right.

The Tories win and you think 1mill food bank users will be the end of it? Bedroom tax will get over turned or that the scum won't come up with something ever more nastier for the poor to deal with? Cameron has already made it plain he wants to stop benefits for those under 25.

It's attitudes like this that mean things will never change.

Maybe we will be stuck with the Tories again, but maybe eventually the greens will get a decent support that means even if they don't win, it makes labour sit up and realise that if they move left they will pick up more voters, or they decide to partner with the greens.

I find laughable when people complain about how "they're all the same" or how corrupt politicians are, then they end up voting labour or Tory again when the election comes around.


I'll keep voting for change, feel free to keep voting for your favourite right leaning party but I won't be joining
"I would say we certainly have the resources to compete with anybody in football." Tom Werner 12/04/2012

Offline hide5seek

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Re: The Greens
« Reply #219 on: January 19, 2015, 09:38:28 pm »
So your happy for another 5 years of the Tories going after the weak, disabled and poor? As if you seriously think suddenly from nowhere the Greens are going to get the support that will make a positive difference is lala land.

Offline hide5seek

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Re: The Greens
« Reply #220 on: January 19, 2015, 09:40:52 pm »
Oh and if people really want change, real change then fight for PR. If the Greens and Kipper supporters got together to fight for PR then you'd be talking.

Offline RideTheWalrus

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Re: The Greens
« Reply #221 on: January 19, 2015, 09:43:55 pm »
So your happy for another 5 years of the Tories going after the weak, disabled and poor? As if you seriously think suddenly from nowhere the Greens are going to get the support that will make a positive difference is lala land.


Labour are almost as bad, let's face it. That's why people are swinging Green.
Pretty happy with Arse taking it.

Disappointing.
[/quote]

Offline hide5seek

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Re: The Greens
« Reply #222 on: January 19, 2015, 09:56:22 pm »

Labour are almost as bad, let's face it. That's why people are swinging Green.
as you said almost even though they'll not  go after the unions, will scrap bedroom tax , are looking to bring in a living wage, will put tax for the rich back up and will freeze fuel prices.

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Re: The Greens
« Reply #223 on: January 19, 2015, 10:02:34 pm »
So your happy for another 5 years of the Tories going after the weak, disabled and poor? As if you seriously think suddenly from nowhere the Greens are going to get the support that will make a positive difference is lala land.

Greens polling at 11% today, imagine what they could do if all the left leaning media got behind them and stopped telling people to vote Labour to keep the Tories out and everyone who votes tactically just decided to vote for who they actually support?

Offline RideTheWalrus

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Re: The Greens
« Reply #224 on: January 19, 2015, 10:06:58 pm »
as you said almost even though they'll not  go after the unions, will scrap bedroom tax , are looking to bring in a living wage, will put tax for the rich back up and will freeze fuel prices.

All of which they would absolutely do undoubtedly.
Pretty happy with Arse taking it.

Disappointing.
[/quote]

Offline hide5seek

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Re: The Greens
« Reply #225 on: January 19, 2015, 10:08:15 pm »
All of which they would absolutely do undoubtedly.
sarcasm or agreement?

Offline hide5seek

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Re: The Greens
« Reply #226 on: January 19, 2015, 10:10:10 pm »
Greens polling at 11% today, imagine what they could do if all the left leaning media got behind them and stopped telling people to vote Labour to keep the Tories out and everyone who votes tactically just decided to vote for who they actually support?
The left leaning main stream media really is only the mirror (Guardian supports the coalition).


Offline Redman0151

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Re: The Greens
« Reply #227 on: January 19, 2015, 11:10:36 pm »
So your happy for another 5 years of the Tories going after the weak, disabled and poor? As if you seriously think suddenly from nowhere the Greens are going to get the support that will make a positive difference is lala land.

No I'm not, stop creating strawmen.

Greens are polling at 11%, attitudes are shifting. I won't vote for somebody because they're a bit less right wing.

None of labour torys or lib dems stand for what I believe in, I'm not voting for them tactically or just accepting things will never change.
"I would say we certainly have the resources to compete with anybody in football." Tom Werner 12/04/2012

Offline hide5seek

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Re: The Greens
« Reply #228 on: January 19, 2015, 11:15:58 pm »
Its hardly a straw man if that's what your actions result in. At 11% the Greens still get 1MP.

And 11% is their highest but they've also had 3% populus the same week. Actually the 11% Ashcroft and 3% Populus poll were the same day.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2015, 11:22:55 pm by hide5seek »

Offline Redman0151

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Re: The Greens
« Reply #229 on: January 19, 2015, 11:21:37 pm »
Its hardly a straw man if that's what your actions result in. At 11% the Greens still get 1MP.

And 11% is their highest but they've also had 3% populace the same week.

Voting for the greens is not "being happy with another 5 years of Tories going after the weak and disabled". So yes it's a strawman


I'm sorry that you're so jaded, but that doesn't mean nobody else believes that things can eventually change and get better.
"I would say we certainly have the resources to compete with anybody in football." Tom Werner 12/04/2012

Offline brownie 09

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Re: The Greens
« Reply #230 on: January 19, 2015, 11:24:58 pm »

Its hardly a straw man if that's what your actions result in. At 11% the Greens still get 1MP.

And 11% is their highest but they've also had 3% populace the same week. Actually the 11% Ashcroft and Populace poll were the same day.
its a bit disrespectful to accuse someone of being happy with a tory party just because they are voting for someone they actually believe in.

I'm voting green, it's because I'm sick of the same shite. Look at who voted against austerity recently. Same old shite

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Re: The Greens
« Reply #231 on: January 19, 2015, 11:36:39 pm »
Oh and if people really want change, real change then fight for PR. If the Greens and Kipper supporters got together to fight for PR then you'd be talking.

Indeed, instead most people didn't really seemed that arsed when the opportunity to vote for it came around

Offline hide5seek

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Re: The Greens
« Reply #232 on: January 19, 2015, 11:41:08 pm »
its a bit disrespectful to accuse someone of being happy with a tory party just because they are voting for someone they actually believe in.

I'm voting green, it's because I'm sick of the same shite. Look at who voted against austerity recently. Same old shite
I think its more disrepectfull to those that will suffer under the Tories because people will vote for a party who however well meaning will be able to do didly squat to change things. Its all right having the high ground about voting Green because you believe in their ideals etc but it won't change the fact that 5 more years of Tory rule people die, people get treated like shit by their bosses, more people end up homeless, they'll be more benefit sanctions, more workfare, more ideas like bedroom tax, moretax breaks for the rich etc etc etc

Offline hide5seek

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Re: The Greens
« Reply #233 on: January 19, 2015, 11:43:08 pm »
Indeed, instead most people didn't really seemed that arsed when the opportunity to vote for it came around
Totally agree. We had a real chance to change things from FPTP, even though not proper PR, AV was certainly better than the shit we have now.

Offline Redman0151

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Re: The Green Party
« Reply #234 on: January 19, 2015, 11:47:24 pm »
I think its more disrepectfull to those that will suffer under the Tories because people will vote for a party who however well meaning will be able to do didly squat to change things. Its all right having the high ground about voting Green because you believe in their ideals etc but it won't change the fact that 5 more years of Tory rule people die, people get treated like shit by their bosses, more people end up homeless, they'll be more benefit sanctions, more workfare, more ideas like bedroom tax, moretax breaks for the rich etc etc etc


And here you are, having a go at people wanting there to be a change, rather than targeting the people actually voting and carrying out these laws.

I'm not sure who you think New Labour are, but they're definitely not left wing

"I would say we certainly have the resources to compete with anybody in football." Tom Werner 12/04/2012

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Re: The Green Party
« Reply #235 on: January 19, 2015, 11:51:56 pm »

And here you are, having a go at people wanting there to be a change, rather than targeting the people actually voting and carrying out these laws.

I'm not sure who you think New Labour are, but they're definitely not left wing


when I ever do that I come across far more left than the Greens.

You really want to change things? Then vote labour and get these vermin out. And than fight for PR and you know what in 2020 that  11% the Greens get will get them 11%  of the MPs in Parliament, where as at the moment they'll be lucky to get 1 MP.

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Re: The Green Party
« Reply #236 on: January 19, 2015, 11:54:19 pm »
when I ever do that I come across far more left than the Greens.

You really want to change things? Then vote labour and get these vermin out. And than fight for PR and you know what in 2020 that  11% the Greens get will get them 11%  of the MPs in Parliament, where as at the moment they'll be lucky to get 1 MP.

If I didn't vote for the greens I wouldn't vote at all, I refuse to vote for a party just because they're a bit less right wing than the other one, i'm not supporting or justifying their regime.
"I would say we certainly have the resources to compete with anybody in football." Tom Werner 12/04/2012

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Re: The Green Party
« Reply #237 on: January 19, 2015, 11:55:21 pm »
If I didn't vote for the greens I wouldn't vote at all, I refuse to vote for a party just because they're a bit less right wing than the other one, i'm not supporting or justifying their regime.
Then at leat support PR.

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Re: The Green Party
« Reply #238 on: January 19, 2015, 11:56:22 pm »
Then at leat support PR.

I do support it
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Re: The Green Party
« Reply #239 on: January 20, 2015, 12:01:52 am »
I do support it
Good man, if you can join electoral reform society.