Topic: Is Google/WhatsApp/Facebook listening to our conversations for targeted ads?

[Skidder.]

Not being listened too, but listening in. My 11yo pointed out to me that if you have an iphone and airpods you can you something called Live Listen, allowing you to listen in to the room where your phone is while you are elsewhere (presumably maxed by the distance they stay connected, which is quite a lot). This seems a bit dodgy to me. I can think of some legit uses, but also a few dodgy ones.

I read something the other day about certain consumer speakers having the ability to both produce and capture sound at the same time. That kind of freaked me out a bit as in reality, a speaker is basically the opposite of a microphone... it'd take a bit of higgleypiggley to rig it like... but this article suggested that certain speakers already had this function in-built.

Find that hard to believe myself - but as I've said many times in this thread, nothing would surprise me nowadays.

But the programme you're talking about, the same thing could be done using any number of apps out now... even Whatsapp... or is there something I'm missing?

I'm not sure where to put this so will leave it here, I found it an interesting read.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/hated_and_hunted_the_computer_virus_malware_ransomware_cracker

Read this the other week, a very interesting read that will probably become a Netflix documentary/film.

[The Gulleysucker]

I read something the other day about certain consumer speakers having the ability to both produce and capture sound at the same time.

In principle, yes, but in practice, unlikely.

A loudpeaker is very low impedance in comparison to a Microphone, even a Ribbon mic, and also has substantial mass in order to move air when reproducing a sound, making it difficult for it to be either sensitive if used as an input device or for it to generate a signal except at very close range and with quite loud sounds.

Add to that the electronic difficulties you would face simultaneously reproducing sound while also listening, it would be akin to attempting to operate two lifts in one lift shaft.

It would be cheaper to simply put a tiny mic into any device.

[Skidder.]

In principle, yes, but in practice, unlikely.

A loudpeaker is very low impedance in comparison to a Microphone, even a Ribbon mic, and also has substantial mass in order to move air when reproducing a sound, making it difficult for it to be either sensitive if used as an input device or for it to generate a signal except at very close range and with quite loud sounds.

Add to that the electronic difficulties you would face simultaneously reproducing sound while also listening, it would be akin to attempting to operate two lifts in one lift shaft.

It would be cheaper to simply put a tiny mic into any device.

Aye, this is what I thought, I'll dig through my history and see if I can find the link... it was an interesting read.

[The Gulleysucker]

Aye, this is what I thought, I'll dig through my history and see if I can find the link... it was an interesting read.

If you could, that would be interesting.

I can see how it could be done in lab conditions, I'm just questioning the practicalities (and the cost and added complexity of implementation) of doing it in consumer devices. If it indeed can, I'd expect mobile phone manufacturers to adopt it pretty quickly as a way of reducing manufacturing costs.

The motor in a loudspeaker is identical in function to many mechanical/electical transducers, but they are typically being used solely as signal generators, not as signal reproducers although you can certainly get electromechanical pistons that you can connect to things like chairs to give you the effect of very low frequencies during gameplay. It's the combining of both functions simultaneously, reproduction and sensing, and of hugely different Db generation and also sensitivity, and within the same single mechanical system that I find dubious.

[Skidder.]

I assumed from the article that it wasn't talking about the same time, I can't remember if I read that or inferred it.

You'll have to let me try and find it, I have had a 'spring clean' since and genuinely can't remember where I read it.

I spoke with my brother about it and he said car companies have been trying to implement this for years but that there is so much red tape. He works for one of the largest manufacturers in the world and while, like you, I question the mechanics of it (I may not have the training, but I do come from a family of electricians and audiophiles) I know that it is practically possible from a baseline point of view - but the implementation is the problem.

What struck me though is that the article claimed that there are speakers in circulation that have the capacity to do so (as in soundbars etc...)...

I don't know why, I have The Register in my mind as to where I read it, but am looking and can't find it!

[The Gulleysucker]

Amazon, Apple and Google all employ staff who listen to customer voice recordings from their smart speakers and voice assistant apps.

News site Bloomberg highlighted the topic after speaking to Amazon staff who "reviewed" Alexa recordings.

All three companies say voice recordings are occasionally reviewed by humans to improve speech recognition.

But the reaction to the Bloomberg article suggests many customers are unaware that humans may be listening.

The news site said it had spoken to seven people who reviewed audio from Amazon Echo smart speakers and the Alexa service.

Reviewers typically transcribed and annotated voice clips to help improve Amazon's speech recognition systems.

.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47893082

[Skidder.]

Amazon, Apple and Google all employ staff who listen to customer voice recordings from their smart speakers and voice assistant apps.

News site Bloomberg highlighted the topic after speaking to Amazon staff who "reviewed" Alexa recordings.

All three companies say voice recordings are occasionally reviewed by humans to improve speech recognition.

But the reaction to the Bloomberg article suggests many customers are unaware that humans may be listening.

The news site said it had spoken to seven people who reviewed audio from Amazon Echo smart speakers and the Alexa service.

Reviewers typically transcribed and annotated voice clips to help improve Amazon's speech recognition systems.

.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47893082

Aye, I read this the other day... and this is what I alluded to in earlier posts; if there's some grey area in some darkened corner of the room, we're humans, we're going turn it black and white. While these are 'queries' - in essence, information that folk willingly give - I'm sure there wasn't an explicit section in the small print or T&C's that stated that their data would be used in this way.

The way the packet is framed, it appears it is just workers goofing off and having a laugh at some of the requests... or at least, that is the framing of the articles that I read.

I still can't believe that folk not only pay for these devices, but actually use them... with that in mind, haha, perhaps they should be laughed at by employees of the big three.

[rob1966]

Amazon, Apple and Google all employ staff who listen to customer voice recordings from their smart speakers and voice assistant apps.

News site Bloomberg highlighted the topic after speaking to Amazon staff who "reviewed" Alexa recordings.

All three companies say voice recordings are occasionally reviewed by humans to improve speech recognition.

But the reaction to the Bloomberg article suggests many customers are unaware that humans may be listening.

The news site said it had spoken to seven people who reviewed audio from Amazon Echo smart speakers and the Alexa service.

Reviewers typically transcribed and annotated voice clips to help improve Amazon's speech recognition systems.

.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47893082

Google used to be shite at recognising my voice, I'd say "Call home" and the reply would be "Do you want to play Dark Side of the Moon by Pink Floyd", so I stopped using voice dialling. Then last year it suddenly always understands what I say.

Google now specifically asks can it record your voice for improving voice recognition.

[conman]

Fine of 250,000 euros to La Liga for not informing its users that their ' app ' used the microphone of the mobile to hunt bars that are pirating their games.

https://twitter.com/el_pais/status/1138510205874925568

[Skidder.]

Fine of 250,000 euros to La Liga for not informing its users that their ' app ' used the microphone of the mobile to hunt bars that are pirating their games.

https://twitter.com/el_pais/status/1138510205874925568

Yeah, phones don't have the resources nor the power apparently. 

I'm not getting the full gist here - so the app, which is meant to allow users to check scores, asks for microphone and location privileges (whoever stupidly accepted those T&C's probably deserves it to be fair), then, I'm assuming it activates at game-time.

So, what does it actually do? I'm assuming it listens to the surrounding noise for matches, pinpoints location, and what, cross-checks against subscribers or registered pubs?

How would an app know if it was an illegal stream? It kind of doesn't make sense unless it had some kind of baseline information to cross-reference?

[CraigDS]

Yeah, phones don't have the resources nor the power apparently. 

I'm not getting the full gist here - so the app, which is meant to allow users to check scores, asks for microphone and location privileges (whoever stupidly accepted those T&C's probably deserves it to be fair), then, I'm assuming it activates at game-time.

So, what does it actually do? I'm assuming it listens to the surrounding noise for matches, pinpoints location, and what, cross-checks against subscribers or registered pubs?

How would an app know if it was an illegal stream? It kind of doesn't make sense unless it had some kind of baseline information to cross-reference?

It’s very different to listen out for a set known sound (in this case I imagine it’s commentary) compared to listening, understanding, understanding context & then acting upon that information. I also imagine the sound is sent and recorded then analysed off the mobile device at a later date.

As you said I imagine it marks location and listens out for the match coverage, then if it gets a hit it can direct an actual person to go and investigate.

[Skidder.]

It’s very different to listen out for a set known sound (in this case I imagine it’s commentary) compared to listening, understanding, understanding context & then acting upon that information. I also imagine the sound is sent and recorded then analysed off the mobile device at a later date.

As you said I imagine it marks location and listens out for the match coverage, then if it gets a hit it can direct an actual person to go and investigate.

How is commentary known sound? If it was a film, where there is a script and known music, I get it. I'm not disputing to argue - there must be something else. Like adverts or something.

As I've outlined, it would probably only kick in at match time, but even still... yourself and others was adamant that this wasn't possible due to technological limitations - this proves it is not only possible but that it is in, in fact, in practice.

If you could program an app to listen out for distinguishable background noise, pinpoint a location, and then, somehow reference the location against, what I assume, is a database of subscribers (which is the real only way I can think of), then it is possible. And this isn't even taking 5G networks into account!

While I (and others) have done some bluesky thinking in this thread - and I'm the first to admit that factoids have come secondary to discussion, on both sides - But this is pretty damning evidence of what many in this thread have been speaking about.

Advertising companies (etc.), program an app to listen out for specific hotwords... "Holiday, locations, brands, products... etc... etc..", takes that information, days later (sometimes hours if certain users are to be believed), an advert pops up.

Football authority programs an app to listen to specific hotwords, "Messi... La Liga, Graeme Ballbag"... pinpoints location, references somehow, in a sting (however long later), pubs are closed... people are charged, whatever. But how does it distinguish if someone is in a pub or in their own home? It doesn't I'd imagine.

And yet, with something as silly as what... I don't know, let's say 100's millions of pounds of lost revenue due for a portion of the football population...

But companies like Amazon, Wish... etc (all heads of the same dog), no... they wouldn't think of doing anything like this at all... I mean, it's not lost revenue is it? Well, then again, Bezos.

It will be interesting to see more information on this as it slowly comes out - and it is also worth noting that this was only reported last year, last year...

[CraigDS]

Because its likely they aren’t listening & analysing these ‘live’.

It’s more likely they are receiving the audio via the app, processing that audio with some sort of a delay on their own computers against what will then be known commentary from X amount of minutes earlier, and then looking for a match.

[Skidder.]

Because its likely they aren’t listening & analysing these ‘live’.

It’s more likely they are receiving the audio via the app, processing that audio with some sort of a delay on their own computers against what will then be known commentary from X amount of minutes earlier, and then looking for a match.

Yes! That's exactly what I think and if you look back on some of the earlier discussion, whilst, as I say, a lot of bluesky thinking has been employed, we're going over old ground as to how this would apply in other divisions. Maybe there's an element of semantics at play here, but that doesn't sound too dissimilar to how hotwording is proposed to deliver analytics.

So, I've just seen that it is in fact $400 million in lost revenue that La Liga have done this for.

Just $400 million from what could be anything from 20-40% of the footballing population - narrow that down a little bit more for old timers, and you could be talking around, what, 5 million people? Give or take? I don't know the figures, but I think you know what I'm hinting at.

This is happening Craig, and this more or less proves that it is possible. Okay, maybe four or so years ago, things may have been different - but if anything over the past four or so years we've learned about some of these companies, they don't give a flying fuck about your privacy and will do almost anything for revenue until they're caught out.

I'll keep tabs on this story in the hope that more comes out about how this has been applied - this is some scary arse Batman shit and it is only 22 men kicking a bit of leather about a field. God knows how someone like Jeff Bezos and co. have either thought about, or have implemented this tech. And the world is letting him launch shuttles and satellites into space.

With Cambridge Analytica, Huwaii (however you spell it), Facebook, Alexa... and the rest, I'm even more resolute that these 'captains of industry' are all relying on the age-old notion of 'Nah, they wouldn't get away with it' while they spin every trick in the book to influence or record your buying habits.

[CraigDS]

It’s massively different to hotwording.

In this case they’ll identify the location their coverage is being viewed, and no doubt cross reference this with a map of bars which have officially purchased it.

That’s all very simple to do off device.

Hotwording, as plenty of us have said many times, simply ignores the context in which something is being talked about.... I mean to continue using football as an example, if someone caught me saying ‘Abu Dhabi’ they may assume I’m going /want to go there on holiday and display a load of stuff regarding that - where as I’m more likely saying how Abu Dhabi are a morally corrupt regime who are financially doping Man City and hiding the fact that they are.

Displaying me adverts regarding Abu Dhabi would therefore be a massive waste of money to advertisers and see a pretty horrific return on investment.

[Skidder.]

It’s massively different to hotwording.

In this case they’ll identify the location their coverage is being viewed, and no doubt cross reference this with a map of bars which have officially purchased it.

That’s all very simple to do off device.

Hotwording, as plenty of us have said many times, simply ignores the context in which something is being talked about.... I mean to continue using football as an example, if someone caught me saying ‘Abu Dhabi’ they may assume I’m going /want to go there on holiday and display a load of stuff regarding that - where as I’m more likely saying how Abu Dhabi are a morally corrupt regime who are financially doping Man City and hiding the fact that they are.

Displaying me adverts regarding Abu Dhabi would therefore be a massive waste of money to advertisers and see a pretty horrific return on investment.

I don't know about plenty of us... you and one or two others, mostly.

But context? You think... I mean... (I'd laugh at this point if it was a conversation)... you think that apps or developers care about context?

Hotwording isn't miles away of this and you know it! If a computer can more or less take audio from a phone, encrypt/decrypt it, analyse, report and produce a response in football, in a pub, with possibly hundreds of different devices, voices, music(s), and the likes. This program wouldn't care about context, it'd just call home!

With all that in mind - then I'm fairly certain that a computer could do the same with hotwording.

And let me be clear on this for anyone who may not have history in this thread - I didn't gear this thread toward this being done 'live' (so to speak). I didn't say that La Liga are sitting there listening in to phone conversations, pinning a location, and sending the boys around! Like the same how I didn't really claim that Facebook/Amazon/Whatsapp/Instagram are sitting there, 'live' recording your conversational hotwords to report back to Zuck to get the boys to throw ads at you.

I know that would be impractical - but if you were a WA user, and you'd been talking to a friend over SMS about say "Snowdonia/Climbing/Boots" it wouldn't take Newton to work out that your next phone conversation with that node may contain the vocalisations of "Snowdonia/Climbing/Boots".

That is clear intent - the kind of stuff that companies would pay through the nose to get.

I mean, without looking as though I'm trying to mock or ridicule you for your own beliefs... I suppose you really believe that the two-step verification for WA is there to, you know, protect your privacy? And I'm not sure you know of what's been happening around WA of late, but they've been getting some pretty bad press over the years.

I get the feeling that you'd argue with anyone, just to argue and not be seen to back down to anything that goes against your worldview, or as you've said yourself, your profession.

But you're wrong on this... And sometime in the future, some piece of empirical evidence will filter out and the many people who have reported strange advertising from their phone will feel vindicated.

Yet, if there is any evidence that would convince you that, I don't know, there may be some veracity to the thousands of unrelated people who I've read who've had similar experiences, I simply guarantee that it won't just 'come out'.

It would filter out, bit by bit, until enough time has passed that no-one would give a flying fuck anymore as something daft as facial recognition will come out and this will be as meaningless as when information of cookie crunching came out.

For the record, as I've said earlier in this thread, there's been more evidence presented by people who believe this to be happening that hasn't... (not a smoking gun mind) it's usually been countered with argumentation... but there's been enough bullets over the years to suggest that this could or can happen and this latest is just another one of those instances.

I can't wait for the next one - i'll still be here.

See you then Craig.

[CraigDS]

I don't know about plenty of us... you and one or two others, mostly.

But context? You think... I mean... (I'd laugh at this point if it was a conversation)... you think that apps or developers care about context?

Advertisers DO though. Retailers DO though. I mean I'd laugh at this point if this was a conversation.

They aren't about to go and spend a good proportion of the online ad sales budget on non-contextualised keywords which could just as well be slating that product, talking about already having that product, or saying how they'd never buy that product, as opposed to talking about wanting one.

Hotwording isn't miles away of this and you know it! If a computer can more or less take audio from a phone, encrypt/decrypt it, analyse, report and produce a response in football, in a pub, with possibly hundreds of different devices, voices, music(s), and the likes. This program wouldn't care about context, it'd just call home!

Well for starters we've no idea how successful it was. We also know it's easy for audio to be listened to and compared to a already known phrase 'Alexa turn on the kettle' is one I use regularly, however if I say 'Alexa boil the kettle' it has fuck all idea what I'm going on about.

Comparing recorded audio to listen for known commentary is extremely different to hotwording.

I know that would be impractical - but if you were a WA user, and you'd been talking to a friend over SMS about say "Snowdonia/Climbing/Boots" it wouldn't take Newton to work out that your next phone conversation with that node may contain the vocalisations of "Snowdonia/Climbing/Boots".

That is clear intent - the kind of stuff that companies would pay through the nose to get.

What if my coversation was "You shouldn't buy X branded climbing boots Bob, I wore them climbing Snowdonia last week and they were utterly shite". Not really worth a penny to X brand now, is it?

Compare that to if I searched Google for "X brand climbing boots", or "climbing boots for Snowdonia" or better yet an advertisers dream phrase "where to buy X brand climbing boots".

Now THAT is what companies pay through the nose to get access to.

I get the feeling that you'd argue with anyone, just to argue and not be seen to back down to anything that goes against your worldview

Ignoring seeing your posts all over RAWK, just your posts in this thread make this extremely ironic.

But you're wrong on this... And sometime in the future, some piece of empirical evidence will filter out and the many people who have reported strange advertising from their phone will feel vindicated.

At some point in the future the technology will be there to fully understand context and make it worthwhile to advertisers. So I agree it will likely happen. It doesn't now though.

See you then Craig.

Can't wait.

[rob1966]

I've got the Duolingo app on my phone, have the mike switched on so that I can do the voice exercises. The phone was in the kitchen on charge. My wife came in from her sisters with a load of samples she got from the joiner, as we are updating the kitchen. We were looking through and I said I really like the marble worktop, I think we will go for that.

About an hour later, I gets a reminder to do todays lesson, opens duolingo, does the first lesson, first advert appears - it is for marble worktops in Manchester. Never seen the advert before and never googled worktops.

[CraigDS]

Have you searched for anything to do with new kitchens?

[Graeme]

Of course not. Duolingo obviously just listens to every word spoken and sells the data to the highest bidder.

[rob1966]

Have you searched for anything to do with new kitchens?

No, as she only wants new worktops and the fella who did our wardrobes will get them for us. We've only discussed it at home and the samples of the worktops were given to us by a family member.

[CraigDS]

No, as she only wants new worktops and the fella who did our wardrobes will get them for us. We've only discussed it at home and the samples of the worktops were given to us by a family member.

So despite getting new worktops no one in the house / one work devices has searched for one thing regarding kitchens / joiners / home improvements?

Normally the first point of call but if not then guess it’s just a coincidence.

[McrRed]

There's a couple of issues bouncing around here but the key one at the moment and pretty much in contravention of GDPR is that this is all happening without user awareness or, in many cases, permission - certainly explicit permission.

[CraigDS]

There's a couple of issues bouncing around here but the key one at the moment and pretty much in contravention of GDPR is that this is all happening without user awareness or, in many cases, permission - certainly explicit permission.

All what is happening?

[rob1966]

So despite getting new worktops no one in the house / one work devices has searched for one thing regarding kitchens / joiners / home improvements?

Normally the first point of call but if not then guess it’s just a coincidence.

No, we don't need to do any searching. Fella who my wife has known for about 20 years is a joiner, mate of the sister in laws fella owns a joinery company, who this fella subbies to. It is all word of mouth, home visits, swatches and printed brochures. When we had the kitchen originally fitted, a builder we know had opened an account with Howdens and he rang them to come and design a kitchen, again no internet involved. I'm fully aware that I get tracked all over the place, myfitnesspal used to piss me off always showing ads from websites I had already visited/bought from.

Maybe it is a coincidence, but the fact that I saw the add an hour or so after we had been discussing worktops just seems iffy. Duolingo is free due to the ads, their software is good enough to understand a Scouser trying to speak Spanish, so I have no issue believing that they would at least trial voice recognition for adverts, it always seems a scattergun approach anyway these ads, so showing ads based on location and keywords doesn't sound to me to be that far fetched.

[CraigDS]

No, we don't need to do any searching. Fella who my wife has known for about 20 years is a joiner, mate of the sister in laws fella owns a joinery company, who this fella subbies to. It is all word of mouth, home visits, swatches and printed brochures. When we had the kitchen originally fitted, a builder we know had opened an account with Howdens and he rang them to come and design a kitchen, again no internet involved. I'm fully aware that I get tracked all over the place, myfitnesspal used to piss me off always showing ads from websites I had already visited/bought from.

Maybe it is a coincidence, but the fact that I saw the add an hour or so after we had been discussing worktops just seems iffy. Duolingo is free due to the ads, their software is good enough to understand a Scouser trying to speak Spanish, so I have no issue believing that they would at least trial voice recognition for adverts, it always seems a scattergun approach anyway these ads, so showing ads based on location and keywords doesn't sound to me to be that far fetched.

Duolingo doesn’t decide on the adverts that are served to you. They’ll use a service like Google Adsense or one of the many others out there. So it really won’t matter what they hear.

[Alan_X]

I've got the Duolingo app on my phone, have the mike switched on so that I can do the voice exercises. The phone was in the kitchen on charge. My wife came in from her sisters with a load of samples she got from the joiner, as we are updating the kitchen. We were looking through and I said I really like the marble worktop, I think we will go for that.

About an hour later, I gets a reminder to do todays lesson, opens duolingo, does the first lesson, first advert appears - it is for marble worktops in Manchester. Never seen the advert before and never googled worktops.

What were all the other adverts for? How many times have you had adverts for worktops when you weren't doing up your kitchen?

[stara]

"Let us open 100 tabs of pure madness to fool trackers into thinking you're someone else"

https://trackthis.link/

 

[Titi Camara]

Cant  be foooked reading back through all of this so allows if already mentioned and/or discussed but this new Netflix documentary looks interesting....

[Alan_X]

Here's one:

I sometimes get 'floaters' in my peripheral vision. It happened this morning for the first time in a while.

I went to a meeting and as I was coming out at lunchtime I got an email titled: "Eye Floater" that asked "Anyone get floaters?..."

Using the logic applied throughout this thread there's no way it could be a coincidence. I haven't searched for 'eye floaters' on the internet or looked for cures or treatments so was it something I said?

No. I didn't say anything to anyone. I didn't even have the opportunity to discuss something that is only visible to me.

So does that mean Google etc are mapping my optical nerve? Of course not. It was just a coincidence. If I hadn't had a 'floater' this morning it would have passed me by like hundreds of other emails offering all kinds of cures if I just sign up...

[Something Worse]

Here's one:

I sometimes get 'floaters' in my peripheral vision. It happened this morning for the first time in a while.

I went to a meeting and as I was coming out at lunchtime I got an email titled: "Eye Floater" that asked "Anyone get floaters?..."

Using the logic applied throughout this thread there's no way it could be a coincidence. I haven't searched for 'eye floaters' on the internet or looked for cures or treatments so was it something I said?

No. I didn't say anything to anyone. I didn't even have the opportunity to discuss something that is only visible to me.

So does that mean Google etc are mapping my optical nerve? Of course not. It was just a coincidence. If I hadn't had a 'floater' this morning it would have passed me by like hundreds of other emails offering all kinds of cures if I just sign up...

Do you have a Google home in your optical nerve?

[BER]

Got talking about the film Green Room with my brother,  never Googled the film or anything like that, just talked about it for a few minutes reminding ourselves how good it was. Go on YouTube an hour later, top of my recommendations is the Half in the Bag for that film.

[Alan_X]

Interesting that the start of The Great Hack starts with this question... no great spoiler to say that the answer is no. The answer is far more complicated and far more scary.

Companies like Cambridge Analytica and their clients will be pissing themselves laughing at people being careful about what they say in front of their laptops and phones while they are ripping thousands of datapoints from their everyday online presence.

[redmark]

"My ears are all waxy and blocked up".
"Get some Otex".

Two minutes later.

"The original ear cleaner just came up in my facebook feed".

[Brian Blessed]

Here's one:

I sometimes get 'floaters' in my peripheral vision. It happened this morning for the first time in a while.

I went to a meeting and as I was coming out at lunchtime I got an email titled: "Eye Floater" that asked "Anyone get floaters?..."

Using the logic applied throughout this thread there's no way it could be a coincidence. I haven't searched for 'eye floaters' on the internet or looked for cures or treatments so was it something I said?

No. I didn't say anything to anyone. I didn't even have the opportunity to discuss something that is only visible to me.

So does that mean Google etc are mapping my optical nerve? Of course not. It was just a coincidence. If I hadn't had a 'floater' this morning it would have passed me by like hundreds of other emails offering all kinds of cures if I just sign up...

They're listening to your mind. Be scared. Be very scared.

[CraigDS]

Why phones that secretly listen to us are a myth

A mobile security company has carried out a research investigation to address the popular conspiracy theory that tech giants are listening to conversations.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-49585682


It's a relatively long read with a few charts, etc. so I won't copy and paste it here.

[Graeme]

Thanks Craig. Probably the first time this thread has ever seen evidence based research

[Alan_X]

Thanks Craig. Probably the first time this thread has ever seen evidence based research

Someone has done a controlled scientific study looking at 17,000 apps on Android devices. 8,000 didn’t request permission to access the microphone, camera or storage. That left 9,000 apps that were tested.  Unsurprisingly (for me) they found no secret transfer of audio files. Eight apps had separate issues regarding screen recording and those were reported to Android who are looking into it.

Merseyside Skeptics podcast here:

https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/skeptics-with-a-k/id327034166=2#episodeGuid=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.merseysideskeptics.org.uk%2F%3Fp%3D2810

http://www.merseysideskeptics.org.uk

So unless someone has anything better than anecdote, sensationalist click-bait stories and ‘my mate said’ I’ll go back to my original answer to the question which is no.

*edit - I’ll dig out the study and post in more detail later.

[redgriffin73]

Cant  be foooked reading back through all of this so allows if already mentioned and/or discussed but this new Netflix documentary looks interesting....

Only just seen this post, what's this called?

[ToneLa]

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/09/07/apples_siri_feminism/

Apple programs Siri to not answer questions about feminism

Apple has programmed its Siri voice assistant to avoid politically charged subjects, and deflect or duck questions that require its AI to take a stand on issues, it emerged this week.

From a tranche of documents leaked by a former contract worker who evaluated Siri responses to user questions for accuracy, The Guardian obtained a set of guidelines drawn up last year to ensure Siri's responses to "sensitive" topics comes across as neutral.

In keeping with these guidelines, Siri's responses were revised to endorse "equality" while avoiding the word "feminism," even if asked directly. Where once Siri responded to the question, "Are you a feminist?" with "Sorry [user name], I don’t really know," it has since been reeducated to provide more harmless and generally acceptable responses like "It seems to me that all humans should be treated equally."

The leaked guidelines reportedly state, "Siri should be guarded when dealing with potentially controversial content."

This is entirely unsurprising given that corporate leaders offer similarly bland, non-committal responses when pressed about political questions that could affect corporate revenue. Hence we have Apple CEO Tim Cook declaring, "Privacy is a fundamental human right," and also speaking at China’s World Internet Conference, effectively endorsing a government that provides very little in the way of privacy or human rights to its citizens.