Author Topic: Labour Thread  (Read 176125 times)

Offline Red-Soldier

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,694
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1760 on: February 6, 2023, 04:12:58 pm »
IMO. Very poor article for several reasons. we knew all of this 7yrs ago before we even voted to leave the EU. it's as if someone knew to it all has recently formed a opinion thinking she's saying something new.


Why is it a poor article?

Don't you agree that Brexit is both a symptom and a cause of our current woes?

The country has been broken for decades, not just 7 years!
« Last Edit: February 6, 2023, 04:15:12 pm by Red-Soldier »

Offline Nobby Reserve

  • Onanistic Charades Champion Of Roundabouts. Euphemistic Gerbil Starver.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,984
  • Do you wanna build a snowman?
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1761 on: February 6, 2023, 04:17:06 pm »
Why is it a poor article?

Don't you agree that Brexit is both a symptom and a cause of our current woes?

The country has been broken for decades, not just 7 years!

I suspect Fordie and certain others will protest that it wasn't broken between 1997 and 2010.

 8)
A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline Machae

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,224
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1762 on: February 6, 2023, 04:18:18 pm »
I think people tend to get rather defensive when discussing Starmer and Brexit and whilst I understand why that is, Starmer doesn't half help himself with his comments and red lines

Keep it vague, don't give ammunition to anyone and definitely dont commit either way.

Offline oldfordie

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,442
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1763 on: February 6, 2023, 04:50:37 pm »

We knew that Britain was broken and needed wholesale, root & branch reform 26 years ago.

Most thought Labour would go some way to fixing it.

All they did was apply a few extra sticking plasters and up the morphine to the patient.


Unsurprisingly, I think it's a brilliant article. It explains far better than I've been able to that that Brexit was a symptom of a deep dissatisfaction with how this country is being run.

Unfortunately, in no small part due to the gaslighting of the right-wing media for decades, too many people had/have no real idea of why they have an undercurrent of disenchantment with life in Britain. That's why they were susceptible to falling for the bullshit and lies of the Leave campaigns.

"Brexit was always the wrong answer to the right question that millions across the country were asking"

The question being - which the writer misses - that of "Why do I feel the quality of my life is getting worse?"

The answer is that the neo-liberal/corporate-capitalism/whatever you want to label it is designed to funnel more and more money to the owners of capital.

Capitalism has his merits - shit, I don't want the state making my telly or my car or my cupcakes - but human nature is so flawed and prone to hoarding greed, that it needs to be heavily regulated to ensure that the proceeds from any commercial operation are shared equitably between the factors of production (land, labour, capital, enterprise), that they don't act against the interests of wider society (pollution, quality standards, monopolistic position, etc), and that everyone pays their fair share of tax per the headline rates.

Since the 80's at least, Britain is failing on all those.

We can but hope that the next Labour government addresses those. I wish I had as much faith as you that they have the will to do so. Because if they don't, history will repeat and the electorate - with memories like the archetypal goldfish when it comes to the Tories - will abandon them again a few years hence and vote the Tories back in.
My point is we read similar articles before the referendum but she's writing as though it's something Starmer and the Labour party today never realised, the opposite is true, we knew the problems back in 2016. we saw many Labour MPs in debates trying to get this across to voters at the time. up pops Anne Widecombe with Stop calling leave voters idiots to close the debate with loud applause.
The public are given opinions, many were told Labour ignored them, Labour did nothing for them, they believed it. they were wrong, the same people believed the EU did nothing for them for the same reasons, they were wrong.
The Public never weighed up the pros and cons of leaving the EU, some lapped up  they have nothing to loose leaving the EU talk, logic being they were told they had nothing so they have nothing to loose, wonder how they feel about that now.
Still cant get my head around how many Tory voters look at politics and I can't help thinking many on the left think the same in some ways.
Labour can return the NHS to a reliable efficient service, they can bring in care and other services to improve the lives of millions, plough money into schools, more teachers and more police. take the many thousands sleeping on the streets into a place to live. yet people pounce on then if they make a wrong decision or take us into some debt.
The Torys can f.. up everything. mistakes and chaos every other week, chop everything, cause misery for 10s millions in many ways and triple the nat debt as the same time yet people still vote for them, can only be one reason for that, they are told Labours done nothing for them, they are no better than the Torys so yeah people do believe Labour did nothing for them, they were wrong.

Are people better off now than before 2010, have we lost a lot since the Torys came to power, it's a bit much to hear all the attacks on Labour one minute then another attack on the Torys for incompetence and corruption, how they are throwing millions into poverty, destroying our NHS, care decimated, services decimated. schools struggling to teach kids due to lack of teachers and funding, welfare hammered and then be told they are only tinkering.
It's not that I disagree with your arguments for change in our tax system and tax avoidance or anything. Labour have said they will be doing this but I don't believe Labour won the debate, it's more down to the public now seeing the Torys for what they are, call it the Overton window, the public are willing to accept this change now.

The biggest problem Labour has is they need to have the confidence to make great change without fearing a backlash from the public when the right/left wing attack them when things go a bit wrong. even the last Labour leader understood this as he toned down his demands when in the hot seat. Labour will never be able to move too far to the left for this reason.

It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline Sangria

  • In trying to be right ends up wrong without fail
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,108
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1764 on: February 6, 2023, 05:13:47 pm »
Why is it a poor article?

Don't you agree that Brexit is both a symptom and a cause of our current woes?

The country has been broken for decades, not just 7 years!

And the voters have decided that the solution is Brexit, and Tory governments to implement it. Do you agree that this was so?
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline Sangria

  • In trying to be right ends up wrong without fail
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,108
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1765 on: February 6, 2023, 05:14:49 pm »

We knew that Britain was broken and needed wholesale, root & branch reform 26 years ago.

Most thought Labour would go some way to fixing it.

All they did was apply a few extra sticking plasters and up the morphine to the patient.


Unsurprisingly, I think it's a brilliant article. It explains far better than I've been able to that that Brexit was a symptom of a deep dissatisfaction with how this country is being run.

Unfortunately, in no small part due to the gaslighting of the right-wing media for decades, too many people had/have no real idea of why they have an undercurrent of disenchantment with life in Britain. That's why they were susceptible to falling for the bullshit and lies of the Leave campaigns.

"Brexit was always the wrong answer to the right question that millions across the country were asking"

The question being - which the writer misses - that of "Why do I feel the quality of my life is getting worse?"

The answer is that the neo-liberal/corporate-capitalism/whatever you want to label it is designed to funnel more and more money to the owners of capital.

Capitalism has his merits - shit, I don't want the state making my telly or my car or my cupcakes - but human nature is so flawed and prone to hoarding greed, that it needs to be heavily regulated to ensure that the proceeds from any commercial operation are shared equitably between the factors of production (land, labour, capital, enterprise), that they don't act against the interests of wider society (pollution, quality standards, monopolistic position, etc), and that everyone pays their fair share of tax per the headline rates.

Since the 80's at least, Britain is failing on all those.

We can but hope that the next Labour government addresses those. I wish I had as much faith as you that they have the will to do so. Because if they don't, history will repeat and the electorate - with memories like the archetypal goldfish when it comes to the Tories - will abandon them again a few years hence and vote the Tories back in.

Have you tried the above arguments on people who don't think of themselves as left wing?
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline Nobby Reserve

  • Onanistic Charades Champion Of Roundabouts. Euphemistic Gerbil Starver.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,984
  • Do you wanna build a snowman?
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1766 on: February 6, 2023, 05:34:55 pm »
Have you tried the above arguments on people who don't think of themselves as left wing?

On anyone who stays awake, mate

  :D
A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline Sangria

  • In trying to be right ends up wrong without fail
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,108
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1767 on: February 6, 2023, 05:53:09 pm »
On anyone who stays awake, mate

  :D

From my experience that kind of argument turns off anyone who doesn't actively think of themselves as left wing. So while it may make sense to you, you're not the only person that votes. Democracy does not elect the candidate that makes most sense to you. It elects the candidate that makes sense to the largest number of people. And to many of these, spiting the loony left makes more sense than listening to them.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline Red-Soldier

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,694
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1768 on: February 6, 2023, 08:21:38 pm »
And the voters have decided that the solution is Brexit, and Tory governments to implement it. Do you agree that this was so?

Indeed.  And those Red Wallers are absolutely loving it.

Offline Sangria

  • In trying to be right ends up wrong without fail
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,108
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1769 on: February 6, 2023, 09:10:46 pm »
Indeed.  And those Red Wallers are absolutely loving it.

Such is democracy. And if you don't like it, maybe try to look for a method of argument that gets your point of view across more effectively than it's done so far. Whatever else you may say about the Tories, they know their voters.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline Red-Soldier

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,694
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1770 on: February 6, 2023, 10:04:19 pm »
Such is democracy. And if you don't like it, maybe try to look for a method of argument that gets your point of view across more effectively than it's done so far. Whatever else you may say about the Tories, they know their voters.

What are you talking about?  You're the one who took issue with the article and threw in the label "looney left".

Don't you agree that Brexit is both a symptom and a cause?

The answer of course, is to improve peoples lives.  One of the things we can do is redistribute wealth, and make people feel empowered (perhaps that's looney left, I don't know).

Inequality has been growing since the late 70s and Brexit was a fuck you to the status quo.

Offline Sangria

  • In trying to be right ends up wrong without fail
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,108
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1771 on: February 6, 2023, 10:26:36 pm »
What are you talking about?  You're the one who took issue with the article and threw in the label "looney left".

Don't you agree that Brexit is both a symptom and a cause?

The answer of course, is to improve peoples lives.  One of the things we can do is redistribute wealth, and make people feel empowered (perhaps that's looney left, I don't know).

Inequality has been growing since the late 70s and Brexit was a fuck you to the status quo.

I don't call them the loony left. I used the term to express how people who don't think of themselves as left, think of those who think that the left wing way of thinking is the only way to go. I agree with the economic arguments of that section of the left. But I also see that, the way that section of the left expresses it, ensures that the Brexit right gets the easiest ride possible.

For instance, what would you think of the argument that Blair represents the thinking of a larger part of the electorate than the left owns him to be? You'd probably say that, nonetheless, he's hugely toxic to at least an equally large part of the electorate, that he'd do the cause better by not showing himself, and you'd be right. Yet the left tends to push the view that they know best, and that everyone who disagrees is stupid, and not see that this method of argument is self-defeating in a democracy.

Democracy doesn't elect the best argument. Democracy elects what people want.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline oldfordie

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,442
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1772 on: February 6, 2023, 11:04:57 pm »
What are you talking about?  You're the one who took issue with the article and threw in the label "looney left".

Don't you agree that Brexit is both a symptom and a cause?

The answer of course, is to improve peoples lives.  One of the things we can do is redistribute wealth, and make people feel empowered (perhaps that's looney left, I don't know).

Inequality has been growing since the late 70s and Brexit was a fuck you to the status quo.
Brexit was about us giving 2 fingers up to Westminister was the best, that was said a lot in the days following the referendum, am sure many on here must remember our reaction to that nugget,  never hear that much now but that's what they said, probably looked for another reason they liked the sound of, people have said all sorts of things on why they supported leaving the EU, many of those reasons were given to them by others after the country voted to leave.

Of course people want more but I doubt many would have even noticed if the Labour government had gave them more. they seemed totally oblivious to the many good things Labour actually did so I doubt many would have even noticed if the Labour government had given them more.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline KillieRed

  • Jaro a.k.a. goatjumpingqueuefucker
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,246
  • Nemo me impune lacessit.
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1773 on: February 10, 2023, 01:29:35 pm »
What do we think the chances of Labour pushing forward with parliamentary & electoral reform are if they become the next government?

Will they be affected by how big a majority they get?

I fear they’ll make the same mistake they did under Blair/Brown and not upset the establishment apple cart simply because “we won”, without considering the big picture.
The best way to scare a Tory is to read and get rich” - Idles.

Offline Red-Soldier

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,694
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1774 on: February 10, 2023, 01:38:16 pm »
What do we think the chances of Labour pushing forward with parliamentary & electoral reform are if they become the next government?

Will they be affected by how big a majority they get?

I fear they’ll make the same mistake they did under Blair/Brown and not upset the establishment apple cart simply because “we won”, without considering the big picture.

I personally think it's an absolute must.  If they don't, the country will just continue along a similar path.  People should feel they have a voice and that their votes count.  There should not be any dead votes in 21st century UK.

Offline Nobby Reserve

  • Onanistic Charades Champion Of Roundabouts. Euphemistic Gerbil Starver.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,984
  • Do you wanna build a snowman?
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1775 on: February 10, 2023, 02:59:02 pm »
What do we think the chances of Labour pushing forward with parliamentary & electoral reform are if they become the next government?

Will they be affected by how big a majority they get?

I fear they’ll make the same mistake they did under Blair/Brown and not upset the establishment apple cart simply because “we won”, without considering the big picture.


If they win a decent majority, they won't even consider it.

Very short-sighted.

But, like Red-Soldier, I think it's imperative to get rid of FPTP.

A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline Elmo!

  • Spolier alret!
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,425
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1776 on: February 10, 2023, 03:01:06 pm »
I think it would be one of the single most transformative changes to the way the country is governed, and it would cost practically nothing in times when Labour will struggle to find the money to make other changes they want.

Offline Machae

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,224
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1777 on: February 10, 2023, 03:30:19 pm »

If they win a decent majority, they won't even consider it.

Very short-sighted.

But, like Red-Soldier, I think it's imperative to get rid of FPTP.



Starmer doesn't strike me as someone who would be that long sighted and revolutionary in making those electoral reforms

Offline stewy17

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,578
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1778 on: February 15, 2023, 09:48:03 am »
Starmer doesn't strike me as someone who would be that long sighted and revolutionary in making those electoral reforms

And yet he’s already set out plans to reform the House of Lords which would fundamentally change our democracy and government function in a way which no other prime minister has ever done?

Offline Sudden Death Draft Loser

  • old and annoying
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,483
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1779 on: February 15, 2023, 09:59:41 am »
"The greatest argument against democracy is to have a five minute conversation  with the average voter. "

Offline TepidT2O

  • Deffo NOT 9"! MUFC bedwetter. Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of convicti
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 94,194
  • Dejan Lovren fan club member #1
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1780 on: February 15, 2023, 10:11:41 am »
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline TepidT2O

  • Deffo NOT 9"! MUFC bedwetter. Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of convicti
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 94,194
  • Dejan Lovren fan club member #1
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1781 on: February 15, 2023, 10:12:26 am »
Bloody hell!

There is no general politics thread..


But Sturgeon is to resign!  Wow
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline Machae

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,224
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1782 on: February 15, 2023, 10:16:08 am »
And yet he’s already set out plans to reform the House of Lords which would fundamentally change our democracy and government function in a way which no other prime minister has ever done?

I would argue that's easier to do than changing the way we vote and moving away from FPTP to PR, which would be better for the whole country as a whole (except if you're a Tory)

Offline Nobby Reserve

  • Onanistic Charades Champion Of Roundabouts. Euphemistic Gerbil Starver.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,984
  • Do you wanna build a snowman?
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1783 on: February 15, 2023, 10:23:11 am »
Bloody hell!

There is no general politics thread..


But Sturgeon is to resign!  Wow


Seismic

She's the best politician of any of the party leaders. I can foresee a bit of a civil war within the SNP now, as different wings have re-emerged seeking different directions.

Labour will be rubbing its hands.
A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

  • Missing an asterisk - no, wait sorry, that's his rusty starfish..... RAWK Apple fanboy. Hedley Lamarr's bestest mate. Has done nothing incredible ever.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 73,657
  • Asterisks baby!
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1784 on: February 15, 2023, 10:29:47 am »
Good to see that Starmer has booted that useless knobend out. I know that will annoy some, but we need to move on as a party and get these Tories out.

Goodbye Magic Grandpa - did nothing for anyone. Hoped you'd be the New Hope and instead you were a Damp Squib.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Sudden Death Draft Loser

  • old and annoying
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,483
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1785 on: February 15, 2023, 10:30:02 am »

Seismic

She's the best politician of any of the party leaders. I can foresee a bit of a civil war within the SNP now, as different wings have re-emerged seeking different directions.

Labour will be rubbing its hands.

Not only the best, but the only one of any worth at all.
"The greatest argument against democracy is to have a five minute conversation  with the average voter. "

Offline KillieRed

  • Jaro a.k.a. goatjumpingqueuefucker
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,246
  • Nemo me impune lacessit.
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1786 on: February 15, 2023, 10:46:30 am »
The unionist trolls and newspapers are going to have to create a new hate figure now.
The best way to scare a Tory is to read and get rich” - Idles.

Offline Red-Soldier

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,694
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1787 on: February 15, 2023, 10:47:04 am »
It's the right decision to not let Corbyn back in. 

Offline tubby

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,194
  • Destroyed Cowboy
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1788 on: February 15, 2023, 10:47:40 am »
Will at least stop the Tories going on about him whenever their backs are to the wall.
Sit down, shock is better taken with bent knees.

Offline gazzalfc

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,775
  • Well done boys, Good Process
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1789 on: February 15, 2023, 10:53:32 am »
It's the right decision to not let Corbyn back in. 

It is when the polls are so favourable to Labour right now. When those polls start to close rolling into the end of 2024 and he plans on running as an Independent, he will be a thorn in the side.

Offline Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,470
  • The first five yards........
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1790 on: February 15, 2023, 11:01:33 am »
It is when the polls are so favourable to Labour right now. When those polls start to close rolling into the end of 2024 and he plans on running as an Independent, he will be a thorn in the side.

That's probably true. He has enough local support to win his first election as an Independent.

But he is a much bigger thorn in the side of the Labour party when he is actually in it. For most of his career he opposed the Labour party in parliament yet traded off the Labour name internationally. That won't happen again.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline Nobby Reserve

  • Onanistic Charades Champion Of Roundabouts. Euphemistic Gerbil Starver.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,984
  • Do you wanna build a snowman?
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1791 on: February 15, 2023, 11:08:37 am »
It's the right decision to not let Corbyn back in.


Looking at it coldly, yes it probably is, from a 'politics' perspective.

Leaves a nasty taste, though. Corbyn is essentially a good person with a lot of compassion for oppressed peoples.

And this Labour Party don't seem concerned with jettisoning left-leaning voters. Like New Labour in 1997, they're relying on them holding their noses to vote for the non-Tory Party (even though it's only vaguely left-of-centre)


A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

  • Missing an asterisk - no, wait sorry, that's his rusty starfish..... RAWK Apple fanboy. Hedley Lamarr's bestest mate. Has done nothing incredible ever.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 73,657
  • Asterisks baby!
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1792 on: February 15, 2023, 11:15:49 am »

Looking at it coldly, yes it probably is, from a 'politics' perspective.

Leaves a nasty taste, though. Corbyn is essentially a good person with a lot of compassion for oppressed peoples.

And this Labour Party don't seem concerned with jettisoning left-leaning voters. Like New Labour in 1997, they're relying on them holding their noses to vote for the non-Tory Party (even though it's only vaguely left-of-centre)




Is he really a good person? He seems to care more about 'oppressed peoples' in places other than the UK. His stance on Brexit, which as an intelligent, clued up Politician he KNEW would fuck over the weak, the vunerable, the disabled, the sick and the needy - he still pursued - even being the first politician to insist it be DONE RIGHT NOW at something like 07:00 the next morning. When I saw him speak, he seemed nasty, snidey and insincere - he continually had swipes at people and I never felt like he ever represented me. He seemed to be more about ideals than helping people.

So. Was he actually a good person? What difference did he make? Who has he ever helped in this country? Someone who can't feed themselves in Burnley or can't turn the heating on in Durham doesn't give a fucking shite about Palestine and I don't really care either - sorry - but we have so many problems in this country - too many people starving and freezing and unable to get out of the pit of despair. I'd rather a politician help them.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Nobby Reserve

  • Onanistic Charades Champion Of Roundabouts. Euphemistic Gerbil Starver.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,984
  • Do you wanna build a snowman?
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1793 on: February 15, 2023, 11:27:10 am »
Is he really a good person? He seems to care more about 'oppressed peoples' in places other than the UK. His stance on Brexit, which as an intelligent, clued up Politician he KNEW would fuck over the weak, the vunerable, the disabled, the sick and the needy - he still pursued - even being the first politician to insist it be DONE RIGHT NOW at something like 07:00 the next morning. When I saw him speak, he seemed nasty, snidey and insincere - he continually had swipes at people and I never felt like he ever represented me. He seemed to be more about ideals than helping people.

So. Was he actually a good person? What difference did he make? Who has he ever helped in this country? Someone who can't feed themselves in Burnley or can't turn the heating on in Durham doesn't give a fucking shite about Palestine and I don't really care either - sorry - but we have so many problems in this country - too many people starving and freezing and unable to get out of the pit of despair. I'd rather a politician help them.


That's kind of disingenuous.

Whilst I agree with you that the Lexit stance is, on the whole, daft, his motives for being opposed to the EU were so that more and better policies could be brought in that would help the less well-off. He (and many others) believe that EU rules would prevent some of those policies being enacted (I know, I know, that's very much not accepted as fact)

To try to claim he wasn't interested in helping people in the UK is nuts.

A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline oldfordie

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,442
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1794 on: February 15, 2023, 11:27:16 am »

Or OldFordie   :P
I don't let the echo chamber tell me what to think.
Amazing how PR has become the Bees knees for many people on the left, all you hear is am not voting for Starmers Labour then they start banging on about they think it's vital to bring in PR. think about that before going into one of your John Redwood personal attacks to avoid discussing some of your past statements.
I expected more from you than resorting to insults in the hope of bringing a pile on.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline Nobby Reserve

  • Onanistic Charades Champion Of Roundabouts. Euphemistic Gerbil Starver.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,984
  • Do you wanna build a snowman?
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1795 on: February 15, 2023, 11:29:15 am »
I don't let the echo chamber tell me what to think.
Amazing how PR has become the Bees knees for many people on the left, all you hear is am not voting for Starmers Labour then they start banging on about they think it's vital to bring in PR. think about that before going into one of your John Redwood personal attacks to avoid discussing some of your past statements.
I expected more from you than resorting to insults in the hope of bringing a pile on.


Wow.

I assumed the smilie would have indicated it was some light-hearted ribbing.

A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,470
  • The first five yards........
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1796 on: February 15, 2023, 11:33:29 am »

Leaves a nasty taste, though. Corbyn is essentially a good person with a lot of compassion for oppressed peoples.


His 'compassion' is partial isn't it? He was a massive fan of Chavez and Maduro in Venezuela, for example, but I don't think he knew much or cared much about the Venezuelan poor. When those guys created a dictatorship in Venezuela Corbyn didn't feel any sympathy for those they began to oppress and persecute. I don't remember him speaking up once when the state militias began to harass and extort money from the poor, or when famine and starvation came to Venezuela, or when hundreds of thousands of Venezuelans became refugees and tried to escape the country. Corbyn went very quiet, which suggests ideology trumped compassion - maybe as it always does in that type of politician.

Let's not even mention the blind eye that Corbyn turned to the Syrian poor and oppressed. All he was concerned about was that Britain didn't institute a 'no fly zone' above Aleppo and Damascus.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

  • Missing an asterisk - no, wait sorry, that's his rusty starfish..... RAWK Apple fanboy. Hedley Lamarr's bestest mate. Has done nothing incredible ever.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 73,657
  • Asterisks baby!
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1797 on: February 15, 2023, 11:33:58 am »

That's kind of disingenuous.

Whilst I agree with you that the Lexit stance is, on the whole, daft, his motives for being opposed to the EU were so that more and better policies could be brought in that would help the less well-off. He (and many others) believe that EU rules would prevent some of those policies being enacted (I know, I know, that's very much not accepted as fact)

To try to claim he wasn't interested in helping people in the UK is nuts.



So who did he ever help? What good did he ever do in the North to help Northerners? What did he actually do that was good?

To me he was an entitled, born-with-a-silver-spoon in his mouth rich Southerner that made some good moves by not claiming expenses and getting the youth involved. What good did he ever do? Did he really oppose or challenge the Tories? When he last ran it was an open goal for any competant politician it seemed to me. Even the points he made that were good and spot on, he sounded like a weak idiot at the best of times. He never convinced me and I really, really wanted to be convinced by him - if you doubt this - look at all my early posts when he first appeared - I really wanted him to do well and shake the party up and make this country a better place, but he came across as pretty thick, uncaring generally to the plight of UK people and always highlighting other shit happening somewhere else.

Sorry but I thought he was a load of bollocks.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline oldfordie

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,442
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1798 on: February 15, 2023, 11:48:06 am »
Watch it lads, Nobby will be posting pictures comparing you with Joseph McCarthy.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline Nobby Reserve

  • Onanistic Charades Champion Of Roundabouts. Euphemistic Gerbil Starver.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,984
  • Do you wanna build a snowman?
Re: Labour Thread
« Reply #1799 on: February 15, 2023, 11:58:44 am »
Watch it lads, Nobby will be posting pictures comparing you with Joseph McCarthy.

Oh that  :lmao

A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"