Topic: Keir Starmer: your views?

[FlashingBlade]

I think I would rather they say nothing now and leave it on the backburner until the public are more receptive to what they now feel as unacceptable.

it will be a generational change before the majority of the British public think..hey that was a fuck up lets admit it and rejoin the EU...the vast majority of Leave voters won't suddenly wake up and say hey I fucked up.

But that message wasn't about Brexit it was about re engaging with  leave voting Labour lost to the Tories....for Labour to win that vote  those voters must be made to feel Labour is on their side...not to condems UK to 10 years of Tory rule

[classycarra]

I thought the having a go at the SNP was a bit unnecessary. How can anyone say the Scots can't manage education when they give out free university tuition.

Because that's been more of a good thing for privileged and comfortable families than it has for families most in need of financial support to aide advancing their education.

Speaking as someone who hasn't seen a minute of conference speeches, so this is a guess entirely.

[Jiminy Cricket]

When I was a union rep, I attended a few broader 'leftist' meetings in the city. The first one I sat through utterly bemused. Went some thing like:

"I talk to you here today, brothers, to tell..."
[interjection from the floor: "and sisters"]
"...and sisters... to tell you all about..."

And so it went on. It was like a sketch taking the piss; every lefty caricature happened at some point.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/30M6szckb68" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/30M6szckb68</a>

[Yorkykopite]

I liked his emphasis on Johnson as a "trivial" man. I've long felt sure that is the best way to get him.

I disagree with Starmer's other comment because I think Johnson is a "bad" man too. But accentuating that, while making dedicated Johnson-haters happy, will do almost nothing to distress those who voted for him. Some of them even 'like' his badness.

But I don't think they enjoy his triviality.  I therefore hope that the Labour party keeps emphasising this. Under the general heading 'Trivial' are all of Johnson's least likeable qualities - his laziness, his lack of empathy, his careerism, his lack of dignity, his privilege and gigantic sense of entitlement, his inability to say sorry, his tendency to go missing when there's a crisis.

It also plays to Starmer's strengths - which are his solemnity and his long career of public service. In that sense he's the opposite of trivial. Those qualities have not been rewarded by the electorate for a long time now, but eventually they will be again. It would be daft for Starmer to try and become something he's not and to compete with Johnson to see who can be the best lovable idiot. He'd lose every time. Better to point out that there's nothing 'lovable' about this clown and to begin the process of convincing the British electorate that they cannot afford to put the destiny of the country into the hands of a trivial man. 

[oldfordie]

it will be a generational change before the majority of the British public think..hey that was a fuck up lets admit it and rejoin the EU...the vast majority of Leave voters won't suddenly wake up and say hey I fucked up.

But that message wasn't about Brexit it was about re engaging with  leave voting Labour lost to the Tories....for Labour to win that vote  those voters must be made to feel Labour is on their side...not to condemn UK to 10 years of Tory rule

I don't know how long it will take, I understand what you mean by a new Generation but it's not even about re-joining the EU, it's more about being able to give honest answers and solutions when asked how they would Make Brexit work. if the public come around to accepting these solutions then the vast majority will think we might as well be back in the EU but I don't think that time has come yet.
The damage has been done, we will have to wait till 2024 for the next opportunity.

[FlashingBlade]

I liked his emphasis on Johnson as a "trivial" man. I've long felt sure that is the best way to get him.

I disagree with Starmer's other comment because I think Johnson is a "bad" man too. But accentuating that, while making dedicated Johnson-haters happy, will do almost nothing to distress those who voted for him. Some of them even 'like' his badness.

But I don't think they enjoy his triviality.  I therefore hope that the Labour party keeps emphasising this. Under the general heading 'Trivial' are all of Johnson's least likeable qualities - his laziness, his lack of empathy, his careerism, his lack of dignity, his privilege and gigantic sense of entitlement, his inability to say sorry, his tendency to go missing when there's a crisis.

It also plays to Starmer's strengths - which are his solemnity and his long career of public service. In that sense he's the opposite of trivial. Those qualities have not been rewarded by the electorate for a long time now, but eventually they will be again. It would be daft for Starmer to try and become something he's not and to compete with Johnson to see who can be the best lovable idiot. He'd lose every time. Better to point out that there's nothing 'lovable' about this clown and to begin the process of convincing the British electorate that they cannot afford to put the destiny of the country into the hands of a trivial man. 

I think that was put in to deflate the 'Scum' quote
..

[Sangria]

I liked his emphasis on Johnson as a "trivial" man. I've long felt sure that is the best way to get him.

I disagree with Starmer's other comment because I think Johnson is a "bad" man too. But accentuating that, while making dedicated Johnson-haters happy, will do almost nothing to distress those who voted for him. Some of them even 'like' his badness.

But I don't think they enjoy his triviality.  I therefore hope that the Labour party keeps emphasising this. Under the general heading 'Trivial' are all of Johnson's least likeable qualities - his laziness, his lack of empathy, his careerism, his lack of dignity, his privilege and gigantic sense of entitlement, his inability to say sorry, his tendency to go missing when there's a crisis.

It also plays to Starmer's strengths - which are his solemnity and his long career of public service. In that sense he's the opposite of trivial. Those qualities have not been rewarded by the electorate for a long time now, but eventually they will be again. It would be daft for Starmer to try and become something he's not and to compete with Johnson to see who can be the best lovable idiot. He'd lose every time. Better to point out that there's nothing 'lovable' about this clown and to begin the process of convincing the British electorate that they cannot afford to put the destiny of the country into the hands of a trivial man. 

"This government is incompetent. Britain deserves better." etc.

Move away from ethics and morals. If people vote Tory despite knowing what Johnson is, mounting a better high horse won't get them to vote Labour. Angling for better government might do the trick.

[TSC]

I think "Make Brexit work" was good

he doesnt piss off 52% off the electorate and highlights that its currently shit

you wont get the ref wall back by reversing Brexit and the liberal remainers  are likely to vote for him anyway

Can understand why he said it although given the current environment ‘make Britain work’ may be more apt.

But no need to go heavily in (yet) on the Brexit mess.  It’s collapsing like a deck of cards anyway.

[Yorkykopite]

I see Laura Pidcock was present (the one who Corbyn wanted as his successor). She didn't like the speech. She told the BBC it had nothing to say to "the working class".

This is Piddy, the ex-MP, who managed the heroic feat of losing the Durham working class for the Labour party at the last general election.

[Yorkykopite]

I think that was put in to deflate the 'Scum' quote
..

Well, yes, that is another reason to like it.

[naYoRHa2b]

I liked what a saw/heard. Not sure what he'll be able to achieve against Boris the tit as too many stupid twats will keep voting for him.

[FlashingBlade]

Can understand why he said it although given the current environment ‘make Britain work’ may be more apt.

But no need to go heavily in (yet) on the Brexit mess.  It’s collapsing like a deck of cards anyway.

Disagree...Brexit is a shit show at moment..but telling 52% of the electorate they got it wrong so soon after the delivery and 18 months before an election would alienate them.

The speech was about re engagement with lost trad labour voters and those who change votes...both who voted leave. This is the only way for Labour to win.






.

[FlashingBlade]

I see Laura Pidcock was present (the one who Corbyn wanted as his successor). She didn't like the speech. She told the BBC it had nothing to say to "the working class".

This is Piddy, the ex-MP, who managed the heroic feat of losing the Durham working class for the Labour party at the last general election.

Actually it did..cos a huge chunk of ' working class' voted leave and Tory in last election.

[Yorkykopite]

Carole Vincent is one of the hecklers apparently. Someone who was in the Socialist Workers Party and stood/campaigned against the Labour Party in elections. Why she hasn't been booted out is anyone's guess.

She was a candidate for Galloway's party Respect apparently.

More weirdly still this harridan, like Galloway himself, was once in the Big Brother House (Season Eight).

This is the Hard Left today. (I wonder if she knows her 18th Brumaire from her Grundisse).

[Nobby Reserve]

I think "Make Brexit work" was good

he doesnt piss off 52% off the electorate and highlights that its currently shit

you wont get the ref wall back by reversing Brexit and the liberal remainers  are likely to vote for him anyway

I agree.

It simultaneously reinforces that Brexit isn't working, but that Labour will try to make it work (rather than reverse it). Yet it's open-ended enough to allow Labour to sign back up to certain EU mechanisms (or even just the EEA). What I want most is for the UK to sign up to the EU's ATAD/AMLD regulations. Cutting down on tax dodging and money laundering surely wouldn't be a vote loser (and would snatch defeat from the jaws of victory for the 'dirty money' arseholes who funded the whole Brexit shitfest)

[Nobby Reserve]

Wow

Great line

"In this conference hall we are patriots"


Refuting the claim that Labour are 'against the country and unpatriotic"

If he has to say it, he has to say it, but....

[Zeb]

I see Laura Pidcock was present (the one who Corbyn wanted as his successor). She didn't like the speech. She told the BBC it had nothing to say to "the working class".

This is Piddy, the ex-MP, who managed the heroic feat of losing the Durham working class for the Labour party at the last general election.

To be fair, she was really busy prepping her run for leader at the time. Think it does illustrate though the need for more soft left (and I do mean soft left) voices in the media so we're not after hot takes from those who've made themselves ever available the past few years. Lot to ask of people not on a union or grift fuelled jolly.

[Kenny's Jacket]

To be fair, she was really busy prepping her run for leader at the time. Think it does illustrate though the need for more soft left (and I do mean soft left) voices in the media so we're not after hot takes from those who've made themselves ever available the past few years. Lot to ask of people not on a union or grift fuelled jolly.

To be fair to the bbc who interviewed her, they then went to Rayner who was dead positive

[Zeb]

To be fair to the bbc who interviewed her, they then went to Rayner who was dead positive

She's been all over the BBC recently. Newsnight and Daily Politics come to mind. (When was the last time you saw Anne Black or Alice Perry or... I mean... her NEC position doesn't justify her doing it, and is a strong argument against it!). Not just her though but think of all those activists who get a talking head slot still - Jones and co. And it's because they're in a symbiotic relationship with rolling news in making themselves available. So it's just something Labour may want to consider. Having people in regular contact with Seamus Milne was probably useful in the past, not so much moving forward.

[OOS]

Thought that was a great end to a good conference. We are starting to see what a Starmers Labour Party is about. Time to for Labour to build on this. As we come out of Covid, and the effects of Brexit unfold, the political landscape has changed. Labour has to adapt and go on the front foot. I believe we can win the next GE, it will need the imagination, creativity, and will to change the party so we can return a Labour majority.

[oldfordie]

I liked his emphasis on Johnson as a "trivial" man. I've long felt sure that is the best way to get him.

I disagree with Starmer's other comment because I think Johnson is a "bad" man too. But accentuating that, while making dedicated Johnson-haters happy, will do almost nothing to distress those who voted for him. Some of them even 'like' his badness.

But I don't think they enjoy his triviality.  I therefore hope that the Labour party keeps emphasising this. Under the general heading 'Trivial' are all of Johnson's least likeable qualities - his laziness, his lack of empathy, his careerism, his lack of dignity, his privilege and gigantic sense of entitlement, his inability to say sorry, his tendency to go missing when there's a crisis.

It also plays to Starmer's strengths - which are his solemnity and his long career of public service. In that sense he's the opposite of trivial. Those qualities have not been rewarded by the electorate for a long time now, but eventually they will be again. It would be daft for Starmer to try and become something he's not and to compete with Johnson to see who can be the best lovable idiot. He'd lose every time. Better to point out that there's nothing 'lovable' about this clown and to begin the process of convincing the British electorate that they cannot afford to put the destiny of the country into the hands of a trivial man.

I would like him to at least try to make a few points to expose the damage Johnson and the Torys have done to our society rather than trying to turn the attention to another part of Johnsons character,  the Torys are asking for unity in this country while inciting anger to split it apart. they are trying the same tactic they used during Brexit against Raynor.
The told leave voters Labour and remain politicians think you are all idiots, it was a lie. not one politician called a leave voter a idiot, it never happened, those remarks caused a lot of anger in this country. something the Torys wanted.
Now they are saying Raynor is calling all Tory voters scum when she calls Johnson scum. it's a lie, the intention again is to cause anger, Raynor may well be in the wrong but Starmer and Labour could turn the tables to make bigger points.
The Torys have ripped this country in half just as Trump ripped the US in half, it has to stop.

[Yorkykopite]

I would like him to at least try to make a few points to expose the damage Johnson and the Torys have done to our society rather than trying to turn the attention to another part of Johnsons character

I think the two go together Fordie.

[stewil007]

I mean come on......on the beeb update, they have the tory chairs thoughts on the labour conference.....its like asking our thoughts as liverpools supporters as to how well Man u played when they (eventually) win a game.

Whats the point?

[TSC]

Disagree...Brexit is a shit show at moment..but telling 52% of the electorate they got it wrong so soon after the delivery and 18 months before an election would alienate them.

The speech was about re engagement with lost trad labour voters and those who change votes...both who voted leave. This is the only way for Labour to win.






.

I think we’re in agreement.

[FlashingBlade]

I think we’re in agreement

[Yorkykopite]

I mean come on......on the beeb update, they have the tory chairs thoughts on the labour conference.....its like asking our thoughts as liverpools supporters as to how well Man u played when they (eventually) win a game.

Whats the point?

The point is that we don't live in a One-Party State.

[stewil007]

The point is that we don't live in a One-Party State.

but its no point at all - those opposite says its all shit, well who would of thought that?

No doubt the labour chair will do the saem at the tory conference and will add nothing to the argument also.

again, whats the point?

[Yorkykopite]

but its no point at all - those opposite says its all shit, well who would of thought that?

No doubt the labour chair will do the saem at the tory conference and will add nothing to the argument also.

again, whats the point?

But they do add something to the argument, hence the point.

[stewil007]

But they do add something to the argument, hence the point.

being contrary isnt adding to the argument....its like a monty python sketch

[Yorkykopite]

being contrary isnt adding to the argument....its like a monty python sketch

But take away the contrariness and you'd miss it. And if you said you missed it you might become of interest to the police.

Isn't that the way things work in places like China where the Party Congress is broadcast without any 'contrariness'?

[oldfordie]

I think the two go together Fordie.

Don't think the point was made though to be honest.
It's not all about Johnson, it's the tactics used by Tory politicians to incite public anger against other politicians while asking for unity. they did it during Brexit and they are using the same tactic again.

[Red Beret]

She's been on telly saying that MPs need to be able to discuss how things work in law and are interpreted by law, which I know has upset some because it can sometimes sound like someone's right to exist is being questioned rather than the dry legal sense of how things work within existing equalities law and what changes might be made. But it's a horrible debate at the moment with not a lot of trust between people.

Cheers, thanks for that.

[killer-heels]

Are the American left wing candidates as unlikable as the ones in the UK?

[oldfordie]

Are the American left wing candidates as unlikable as the ones in the UK?

What left wing candidates,    Bernie Sanders .
Anyone calling for a fully funded government NHS is considered a Trot over there.

[Zeb]

[Deleted a poll from Sky News done by Opinium because it is not even close to a like for like comparison with Johnson nor Corbyn as all polling was done on clips shown either this week or today. Only thing of use to it is that Starmer has the potential to have broad appeal to the electorate.]

[Red_Mist]

I see Laura Pidcock was present (the one who Corbyn wanted as his successor). She didn't like the speech. She told the BBC it had nothing to say to "the working class".

This is Piddy, the ex-MP, who managed the heroic feat of losing the Durham working class for the Labour party at the last general election.

Is she the one who said something like, “oh I see they’ve sent [not sure who it was, might’ve been Angela Rayner] over to make sure I don’t speak out of turn, well that’s not going to work, I’ll say what I like”?

Came across as someone who knew she was talking absolute shite.

[TepidT2O]

A trivial man… that’s a good line that

[oldfordie]

Brilliant speech by Starmer today.  you will never justify great change for the good shouting ideology. great change comes about when people look at as decency, making a better future for our children, caring for the vulnerable, getting rid of poverty and homelessness shouldn't be seen as a ideological view, it's something we should all want regardless of what party we support. the Beveridge report proved that beyond doubt.

[Dr. Beaker]

Brilliant speech by Starmer today.  you will never justify great change for the good shouting ideology. great change comes about when people look at as decency, making a better future for our children, caring for the vulnerable, getting rid of poverty and homelessness shouldn't be seen as a ideological view, it's something we should all want regardless of what party we support. the Beveridge report proved that beyond doubt.

It had the feel of a Kinnockian exorcism. Let's hope this potters wheel of a Tory disaster gives him the opportunity to parade a bit of competency in front of our bewildered nation and bring about a historic victory.

[Sangria]

Brilliant speech by Starmer today.  you will never justify great change for the good shouting ideology. great change comes about when people look at as decency, making a better future for our children, caring for the vulnerable, getting rid of poverty and homelessness shouldn't be seen as a ideological view, it's something we should all want regardless of what party we support. the Beveridge report proved that beyond doubt.

The biggest progressive change in our lifetime was achieved by a government that many so-called progressives decry as conservative in nature. Maybe, rather than achieve great change through revolution, we can achieve it by all of us changing a little in a common direction. Less dramatic, but if we sustain it, we can do it for years rather than bemoan its absence.

Also, thinking about Pidcock, and Sultana in particular, I wonder if the working class they espouse is the one they've read about in authors of choice. It would explain why they have such consistent and unbending principles, as the working class in their mind is one that exists, uniform and unchanging, in books. Rather than the complex population that often doesn't regard itself as an underclass, and which rarely sees itself as a collective.