Poll

What are your views on Kier Starmer's leadership of the Labour party to date?

Excellent
5 (1.9%)
Good
33 (12.7%)
Average
88 (34%)
Poor
46 (17.8%)
Awful
69 (26.6%)
Too early to say
18 (6.9%)

Total Members Voted: 259

Author Topic: Keir Starmer: your views?  (Read 91643 times)

Offline RainbowFlick

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Keir Starmer: your views?
« on: July 6, 2021, 09:46:08 am »
I think RAWK has a broad spectrum of left-wingers so just curious what peoples' thoughts are at this stage.
YNWA.

Offline Snail

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #1 on: July 6, 2021, 09:57:04 am »
Awful, but I've not the foggiest who could replace him.

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #2 on: July 6, 2021, 09:59:08 am »
Awful, but I've not the foggiest who could replace him.

Burnham?  think he would connect better with the working class
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #3 on: July 6, 2021, 10:02:00 am »
Probably a 21st century Neil Kinnock. Wont become PM, but his job is largely untangling the mess left behind by previous leaders (I include Brown and Miliband in that).
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #4 on: July 6, 2021, 10:12:33 am »
Burnham?  think he would connect better with the working class

He needs to be an MP first, and he's proven himself to be something of a weathervane in the past - not really sure I trust him, but that's politicians for you.

Offline L4Red

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #5 on: July 6, 2021, 10:13:59 am »
Average, but whilst the election is miles away and the govt has such a majority im not sure what I expected from him really?

I think PMQ's he's decent but most people aren't interested in that.

We will see I guess, can't be as bad at the polls as the last fella gifting the tories unprecedented control

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #6 on: July 6, 2021, 10:15:16 am »
Average, but whilst the election is miles away and the govt has such a majority im not sure what I expected from him really?

I think PMQ's he's decent but most people aren't interested in that.

We will see I guess, can't be as bad at the polls as the last fella gifting the tories unprecedented control

Not sure about that at all, and that's a pretty risky assumption.

Offline Crumble

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #7 on: July 6, 2021, 10:17:08 am »
Average. I knew he was rather lacking in personality when I voted for him, but I was hoping he would drive forward with a socialist agenda with more backing from the party than the previous leader. Maybe he still will.

Offline Red_Mist

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #8 on: July 6, 2021, 10:18:05 am »
Average. I don’t mind him if I’m honest (which is why I didn’t select ‘poor’). But he’s missed too many open goals. The Tories should’ve been flayed alive for their disastrous mismanagement of Covid and obvious corruption/ cronyism. A double whammy that any opposition leader with more charisma would’ve laid bare for all to see. Yes he had to tread carefully at times when the crisis was peaking and the mood was everyone pulling together. But once that faded he should’ve been ruthlessly critical. He might have tried to be…but he hasn’t landed any significant blows. And that’s not good enough really.

Offline L4Red

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #9 on: July 6, 2021, 10:18:43 am »
One thing I don't understand is the constant drive from certain party members to go even more left when the country has become more and more right over the past decade or so. You're not gonna turn voters back by going even further left, especially without the press on side.


Offline Zeb

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #10 on: July 6, 2021, 10:24:13 am »
About what I expected. Improvements to how he found the party already evident but finding his feet politically while on the job not ideal. So torn between 'good' because the alternative to the direction he's trying to pull the party in was so much worse or 'average' because I don't like to grade on a curve. Think Red Berry has it right. He's got the shit job of tidying up the dirty protest which itself was a result of years of drift.
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Offline Sangria

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #11 on: July 6, 2021, 10:26:57 am »
One thing I don't understand is the constant drive from certain party members to go even more left when the country has become more and more right over the past decade or so. You're not gonna turn voters back by going even further left, especially without the press on side.

I wonder how many of those demonising any hint of Thatcher's influence on modern politics would go without the freedom and choice that are now the default language of social discussion. I suspect that, whilst being condemned as a neoliberal, I'm more inclined to substantially act against these Thatcherite ideas than these good socialists.

Most of the left have just chosen a side that they feel is morally right, and define everything else outside that group as morally wrong. Without looking at all the things, which they too indulge in, that perpetuate the other side.
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #12 on: July 6, 2021, 10:29:08 am »
About what I expected. Improvements to how he found the party already evident but finding his feet politically while on the job not ideal. So torn between 'good' because the alternative to the direction he's trying to pull the party in was so much worse or 'average' because I don't like to grade on a curve. Think Red Berry has it right. He's got the shit job of tidying up the dirty protest which itself was a result of years of drift.
Pretty much where I am as well

Offline reddebs

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #13 on: July 6, 2021, 10:39:44 am »
I'd like a "too early to say" option as a better reflection of my views as there's far too much unravelling of past societal divisions to just go wading in and making noticeable improvements straight away. 

Offline Lusty

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #14 on: July 6, 2021, 10:59:05 am »
Basically about par.  Don't find him paticularly inspiring and I don't see a major policy direction that's cutting through, but it's early days and the next election is a couple of years off at least so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.  He does seem like the kind of boring but competent administrator that I would personally quite like to be running the country but will never get elected because he's hard to make a meme out of.

Bigger problem is the lack of talent more broadly in the party.

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #15 on: July 6, 2021, 10:59:05 am »
Have been disappointed with him but I realise that he essentially is doing what he was always going to do. I voted based on the electable tag and friends told me how unwise that thinking was. I left the party about 7 months in, but I am hopeful that the polling will turn around, because the alternative is always going to be worse.

Starmer isn't the biggest problem in the party but he is a problem. He might not be such a big problem going against Sunak, I'm hopeful that the appeal of Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson is holding a lot back at the moment.

In my near two decades as a member, we certainly had leaders I agreed with less, but I recognise that the party will not ever really be a good fit for me anymore.

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #16 on: July 6, 2021, 11:20:14 am »
The Tories under Johnson have taken UK governance to unprecedented gutter levels.  I'm pleased Starmer hasn't followed them but I wish he would be more forceful in highlighting just how low they've gone.

"Average"

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #17 on: July 6, 2021, 11:29:36 am »
My gut feeling as well is that being in opposition during COVID is generally a tough job, I think it has generally been good for the incumbent parties who are in charge during the crisis, even those who haven't dealt with it particularly well.

Trump was catastrophically bad at dealing with Covid and still only narrowly lost the presidential election.

Still Labour need to put together a narrative of what they stand for sooner rather than later, a tough balancing act between chasing voters who recently deserted them while not pissing off their base too much

Offline AndyMuller

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #18 on: July 6, 2021, 11:31:46 am »
Poor.

He just agrees with everything the government does in regards to the pandemic which has been a shitshow.

He also lacks charisma and is a cure for insomnia when he is on TV.

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #19 on: July 6, 2021, 11:39:10 am »
Very underwhelming and uninspiring. Not even sure you can argue his competence either, which is one thing I thought he would bring.

Not sure Labour have a better alternative just now though.

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #20 on: July 6, 2021, 11:43:55 am »
He's no Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson and that is what the English seem to like.
I'd vote for Keir over Borris personally but each to their own

Sorry misread - thought we were talking about a national election  ;D

Maybe if Labour had someone more like the other fella he'd get more votes? Give him a makeover perhaps?
« Last Edit: July 6, 2021, 11:46:15 am by kavah »

Offline Sangria

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #21 on: July 6, 2021, 11:46:03 am »
He's no Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson and that is what the English seem to like.
I'd vote for Keir over Borris personally but each to their own

The way out is to change the narrative in a way that the British people also like, but which involves voting Labour.
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #22 on: July 6, 2021, 11:49:14 am »
I've put down average, I think because he just hasn't been able to get a foothold on the media narrative due to the pandemic.
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #23 on: July 6, 2021, 11:50:13 am »
He's not been great but has a very difficult job on this hands at the moment, with regard to both the pandemic situation and the fracturing of the traditional Labour electoral alliance.

He comes across as someone who would make an excellent senior (shadow) cabinet member (AG, foreign or home secretary), but leadership especially at a time like this requires so much more. Every year that goes by just emphasises how effective and transformative Blair was as Labour leader. But there ain't no Blair waiting in the wings anymore.

Offline jonnypb

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #24 on: July 6, 2021, 11:50:28 am »
Average at best, but he's an upgrade on that fuckwit corbyn, although that's not saying much.....

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #25 on: July 6, 2021, 11:52:11 am »
Average.

But that’s ok.

The Labour Party needs a person in charge to change the perception of them being run by incompetent loonies.  Starmer is that.


I think he’s one of the nicest guys in politics.  Which is a negative.
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Offline John C

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #26 on: July 6, 2021, 11:55:58 am »
I'd like a "too early to say" option as a better reflection of my views as there's far too much unravelling of past societal divisions to just go wading in and making noticeable improvements straight away. 
I've added that as an option Debs.

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #27 on: July 6, 2021, 11:56:24 am »
Poor.

He just agrees with everything the government does in regards to the pandemic which has been a shitshow.

He also lacks charisma and is a cure for insomnia when he is on TV.

He rightly agrees on the policy, he disagrees with how the policy is implemented.
Furlough, how can he not back a furlough scheme. Starmer has been pointing out the flaws in Johnsons Furlough scheme.
Covid restrictions, any sensible politician should have been fighting for Covid restrictions. Starmer has pointed out many of Johnsons Covid cock ups.
Vaccine roll out has been excellent, arguing otherwise will loose credibility. other arguments can be made in the future when the financial cost of Covid has to be paid.
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Offline reddebs

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #28 on: July 6, 2021, 12:02:53 pm »
I've added that as an option Debs.

Thanks John.  I could have voted average but didn't feel that truly reflected how I feel.

I'm very much a slow and steady, incremental improvements person.  Far more tortoise than hare and definitely not a bull in a china shop type person 😁

Offline stewil007

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #29 on: July 6, 2021, 12:03:01 pm »


Bigger problem is the lack of talent more broadly in the party.

interestingly enough, that doesn't harm the other side does it?

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #30 on: July 6, 2021, 12:53:53 pm »
Good.

I think there is a dearth of talent across the whole house. Never a consideration for tory voters though.

Almost impossible to be opposition leader at the moment, with a government who are totally reliant on lying and a media indifferent to the lying. Try to pull up the PM or any other minister on said lying and you are immediately steamrollered with a torrent of impressively  irrelevant statistics regarding vaccinations. Difficult times, but I still think that charisma has a limited shelf-life and we will all be craving a bit of boring competence before too long. Starmer needs to build a stronger team, some who didn't really have the stomach for the leadership contest while we were so far from forming a government, will need to start reviving their career soon.

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Offline Lusty

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #31 on: July 6, 2021, 12:57:10 pm »
interestingly enough, that doesn't harm the other side does it?
Depends what you mean by 'talent' I suppose?

I imagine that in the upside down version of RAWK where everyone wants the Tories to stay in power for as long as possible, they would point to Sunak as a superstar, and even the likes of Gove, Patel, Raab, Javid as 'talent'.  I doubt anyone on their side is complaining that the bench isn't deep enough.

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #32 on: July 6, 2021, 01:00:32 pm »
He seems alright to me. He's between a rock and a hard place at the moment I think. That fucking buffoon in the top position is of course riding the wave of the vaccine roll-out, which is almost making him untouchable despite the absolute shit show that his handling of COVID has actually been (and of course Brexit too). But I dont really pay enough attention to know if he's actually doing well or not. Do my utmost to avoid watching the news or reading the papers.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #33 on: July 6, 2021, 02:16:01 pm »
Still reeling from the 'any other leader would be twenty points ahead' truism turning out to be untrue. That blew my mind. And the fact that it might take more than a nice haircut and an awkward photo op besides a St. George's flag to see the voters come rushing back.

He has successfully identified the main thing the public were calling out for of course, the return of Peter Mandelson. I know I myself have spent the intervening years thinking: "if only there were some kind of ghoulish and unlikeable relic of the victories of nearly a quarter of century ago lurking suspiciously in the background, plotting sinisterly". After years of the impassioned chants of 'give me Mandelson or give me death' we've all heard ringing out across the pubs, parks and public spaces of Britain, the Party have listened. Kudos Keir.

Once again, it's been a mindfuck to recently be alerted to the fact that after five years of brave and principled sabotage, mass resignations, breakaway parties and press tours urging voters not to vote Labour, working against the electoral chances of the Labour Party whilst actually in the Labour Party is actually a bad thing. You live and learn. Obviously I hope these disgusting trot, anti-semite crank scumbags calling Starmer 'Keith' on twitter will be as viciously dealt with as I'm going to presume the Labour candidates who spent five years working against his predecessor have or will be.

I think we call all agree the unity has never been greater and that Starmer has successfully brought together all sides of this fragile and fracturing coalition, we're all pulling in the same direction and that's great. That's super. Should Starmer & his team manage to cobble together enough policies together to form a manifesto before the next election given the slow rate of policy formation so far, then I can't wait to rush out and vote for it. I'm sure it will be as ambitious and dynamic as the man himself is.

................

I'm being sarcastic of course, as others have said I don't see much talent lurking anywhere within the Party on either side so I'm not sure what good getting rid of him would have done.

Obviously the Starmer presented to members in his leadership bid as someone who might make an effort to bring the two sides of Labour together rather than driving even more of wedge between them would have been better (imo) than carrying on the endless factional warfare. The promise of a more respectable and less leaden with baggage version of the Corbyn era sounded perfectly fine (to me, I realise most people in these threads hated him) but y'know the Labour right are obviously on a mission to wipe out any dissention or challenge to their rule. Whatever.

Corbyn was flawed and made myriad mistakes, I'm not an idiot who's blind to that but neither should the Labour right be blind to the millions of votes they lost between 1997 and being booted out of office, or the loss of Scotland etc. But only one side are seemingly expected to learn, moderate themselves, taper expectations or adjust whilst the other just carry right on, forever blaring 'Now That's What I Call 1997!' from their CD Walkman's as the batteries finally run out and the era itself fades from memory, with the strategies they used back then becoming ever less applicable.

Obviously at some stage you presume the people of Britain will get bored of the Tories or simply wake up one day and look around at the ruins that surround them, ruins that once were a vaguely functioning country now gone up in smoke, and wonder: "what the fuck happened?!?" and decide a change might be in order, hard to see at this moment but you've got to hope it comes. Obviously internally lots of us will think: "well, what happened was that you allowed yourself to be conned by Brexit, culture war bullshit, austerity being necessary, flags, and the ludicrous idea that a country run for the benefit of a tiny percentage of a percent at the very top was going to be good for everyone" - but that probably wouldn't be helpful or useful.

I'd imagine Starmer will be the one before the one who can challenge for office, the people around him clearly want to sure things up to make sure those pesky members can't fuck up their path to electability.

I'm not trying to be divisive btw, just attempting to add an alternative view to what on here is often a load of people hurling abuse at lefties, blaming them for everything whilst refusing to accept their brand of Labour was tanking badly and demeaning and dehumanising them with a load of 'crank, trot scum - why won't they fuck off and die?' subtext.

Offline RainbowFlick

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #34 on: July 6, 2021, 02:28:30 pm »
Burnham?  think he would connect better with the working class

I like him to an extent, he seems like a likeable uncle. Not really sure he'd win an election, though, not that I have that belief in Starmer.
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Offline RainbowFlick

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #35 on: July 6, 2021, 02:31:17 pm »
One thing I don't understand is the constant drive from certain party members to go even more left when the country has become more and more right over the past decade or so. You're not gonna turn voters back by going even further left, especially without the press on side.

Why should a left-wing party creep further to the centre and in parts centre-right? There is an appetite for left-wing politics here but a lot of those people have been disengaged and the messaging around Brexit specifically with Corbyn was terrible.

It's why the Labour party has had an exodus of POC and students.

There's definitely a surge of more extreme right-wingers but I think pandering for their votes isn't exactly instilling confidence in your existing primary voting base.
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Offline RainbowFlick

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #36 on: July 6, 2021, 02:38:18 pm »

He rightly agrees on the policy, he disagrees with how the policy is implemented.
Furlough, how can he not back a furlough scheme. Starmer has been pointing out the flaws in Johnsons Furlough scheme.
Covid restrictions, any sensible politician should have been fighting for Covid restrictions. Starmer has pointed out many of Johnsons Covid cock ups.
Vaccine roll out has been excellent, arguing otherwise will loose credibility. other arguments can be made in the future when the financial cost of Covid has to be paid.

Fair, although I also think the 'captain hindsight' rhetoric from Boris seems to be pretty true. Starmer should've been in early with demands for lockdowns, mask-wearing, furlough pay and additional support for those that need it. It seemed a lot of the time he was reacting, rather than being proactive.

I'd also argue Starmer has been late to pointing out BoZo's cock-ups too. I feel he's had several opportunities to really dig in deep to the incompetence of BoZo but either is late to reacting or is purposedly waiting to act, for some bizarre reason.
YNWA.

Offline Sangria

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #37 on: July 6, 2021, 02:38:26 pm »
Why should a left-wing party creep further to the centre and in parts centre-right? There is an appetite for left-wing politics here but a lot of those people have been disengaged and the messaging around Brexit specifically with Corbyn was terrible.

It's why the Labour party has had an exodus of POC and students.

There's definitely a surge of more extreme right-wingers but I think pandering for their votes isn't exactly instilling confidence in your existing primary voting base.

Not wanting the Corbynite direction means pandering to the extreme right wing. Because these are the only two groups.
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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #38 on: July 6, 2021, 02:40:51 pm »
There seems a bizarre narrative that Starmer is on the right of the party, I would say he is pretty much of the "Soft Left" , as is a fair proportion of his cabinet, its not exactly Blairism reborn.

Ultimately his tough balancing act will come around which social issues he wants to make noise about and prioritise, the economics issues are a bit easier as plenty of polling shows that the British public are more willing to look at more "left" policies there.

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Re: Keir Starmer: your views?
« Reply #39 on: July 6, 2021, 02:42:41 pm »
Not wanting the Corbynite direction means pandering to the extreme right wing. Because these are the only two groups.

You do love defending Keir, don't you.
« Last Edit: July 6, 2021, 02:44:16 pm by RainbowFlick »
YNWA.