Author Topic: Loan Watch 2019/20  (Read 232359 times)

Offline MNAA

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #160 on: July 26, 2016, 03:22:47 pm »
Sounds like a terrible first impression, horses are rubbish at football.
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Offline mc_red22

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #161 on: July 26, 2016, 03:25:39 pm »
http://www.empireofthekop.com/2016/07/26/hertha-boss-reveals-1st-impression-of-lfcs-allan-he-shoots-like-a-horse/

his already made a good first impression the Herta manager

It's always good when managers can advise each others on players to sign in situations like this and they trust the person enough to go for it.

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #162 on: July 26, 2016, 03:37:10 pm »
Hang on.....

He's just on trial at the moment isn't he?

Hasn't signed on loan yet as far as I can work out.
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Online CraigDS

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #163 on: July 26, 2016, 03:38:04 pm »
Hang on.....

He's just on trial at the moment isn't he?

Hasn't signed on loan yet as far as I can work out.

Correct

Offline 'Mondzz'

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #164 on: July 26, 2016, 03:43:14 pm »
Nice to see him get a spell with a decent European club. Hopefully he lands his work permit after this season.
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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #165 on: July 26, 2016, 03:43:52 pm »
Hang on.....

He's just on trial at the moment isn't he?

Hasn't signed on loan yet as far as I can work out.

It's still good news. Let's hope he makes a great first impression on trial.
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Offline SwordInYourGut

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #166 on: July 26, 2016, 05:04:36 pm »
Its big news in and of itself that Klopp thinks he is good enough for a mid table Bundesliga team.

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #167 on: July 26, 2016, 05:07:15 pm »
Its big news in and of itself that Klopp thinks he is good enough for a mid table Bundesliga team.

to be honest he needs to go to a team in the Europa and in one of Europe's top leagues to get enough points for a work permit. So if he thinks it or not (he probably does if he's pushing this hard for a work permit for the lad) it was a necessity.

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Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #169 on: July 26, 2016, 09:50:18 pm »
Hertha would be a great team for him to be on loan at with potential European competition. Also helps that he could live in one of the world's most amazing cities while on loan.

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #170 on: July 26, 2016, 09:50:52 pm »
How is he ever going to get a work permit?

I just can't see a way

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Offline Party Phil

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #171 on: July 26, 2016, 09:52:02 pm »
Needs to make the most of the opportunity in the Bundesliga to toughen up and stop shying out of tackles

If you're lying, I'll chop your head off.

Offline PeterTheRed ...

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #172 on: July 26, 2016, 10:24:21 pm »
How is he ever going to get a work permit?

I just can't see a way

If he does well in the Bundesliga this season, he will seriously improve his chances. He is also a Brazilian U-20 international, so his profile will only rise.

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #173 on: July 26, 2016, 10:40:25 pm »
If he does well in the Bundesliga this season, he will seriously improve his chances. He is also a Brazilian U-20 international, so his profile will only rise.

Don't think the youth international matters too much anymore.

Thankfully playing 30% of the domestic minutes for Hetha, as long as they are in the Europa group stages, nets him 2 points. Then if he gets a new contract to put him about Ł30-40k a week (maybe less) then it's likely to net him another 2 points. That should be enough.

Offline PeterTheRed ...

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #174 on: July 26, 2016, 11:32:24 pm »
Don't think the youth international matters too much anymore.

Thankfully playing 30% of the domestic minutes for Hetha, as long as they are in the Europa group stages, nets him 2 points. Then if he gets a new contract to put him about Ł30-40k a week (maybe less) then it's likely to net him another 2 points. That should be enough.

I think that youth internationals matter very much when applying for work permit under the "exceptional talent" clause. I think that we used that clause and Grijic'c success with Serbia at the U-20 world cup when we acquired his work permit.

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #175 on: July 26, 2016, 11:36:03 pm »
I think that youth internationals matter very much when applying for work permit under the "exceptional talent" clause. I think that we used that clause and Grijic'c success with Serbia at the U-20 world cup when we acquired his work permit.

Fairly sure there is no exceptional talent clause to the work permit rules anymore, it's all points based.

Grujic would likely have gained enough points via how much he cost, his wage, the amount he played for his previous club, etc.

Offline PeterTheRed ...

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #176 on: July 27, 2016, 12:19:13 am »
Fairly sure there is no exceptional talent clause to the work permit rules anymore, it's all points based.

Grujic would likely have gained enough points via how much he cost, his wage, the amount he played for his previous club, etc.

Are you sure about that? Grujic came from a lower ranked league, his transfer fee wasn't exactly big, and he is on less than Ł20,000 per week at Liverpool.

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #177 on: July 27, 2016, 12:28:19 am »
Are you sure about that? Grujic came from a lower ranked league, his transfer fee wasn't exactly big, and he is on less than Ł20,000 per week at Liverpool.

Not 100% but I'm fairly sure there is no longer an exceptional talent clause anymore since its switched to a points based system. I've read the regs a few times now and not seen any mention of it.

We've no idea what he is on beyond guesswork, and it may well be enough to gain 2 points. As may his fee, especially compared to Allan who was about Ł500k. Allan also never played for his club before we bought him, so makes no difference what rank the league was.

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #178 on: July 27, 2016, 12:36:21 am »
Just double checked. As he is under 21 and Serbia are ranked 47, he'd need to have played in 75% of their games in last year. Haven't gone back and looked but he may well have done that.

If not he most definitely gains enough points via his fee and wages and previous appearances.

Offline PeterTheRed ...

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #179 on: July 27, 2016, 12:58:29 am »
Just double checked. As he is under 21 and Serbia are ranked 47, he'd need to have played in 75% of their games in last year. Haven't gone back and looked but he may well have done that.

If not he most definitely gains enough points via his fee and wages and previous appearances.

Well, he has had his debut for the senior national team a couple of months ago, so I doubt that was the path we have used. Unless you mean 75% of the U-21 games. I think that you should check the rules for a Tier 2 visa once again. I am not sure, but I think that the exceptional talent clause is not completely abolished.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 01:01:29 am by PeterTheRed »

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #180 on: July 27, 2016, 01:07:48 am »
Well, he has had his debut for the senior national team a couple of months ago, so I doubt that was the path we have used. Unless you mean 75% of the U-21 games. I think that you should check the rules for a Tier 2 visa once again. I am not sure, but I think that the exceptional talent clause is not completely abolished.

Or, you know, you can go check for yourself mate. There is nothing I can see but you're the one asking so feel free to go and look.

Not entirely sure if it's only competitive international games or not which count, if so then he gets in that way. If friendlies count then probably not.

As said, makes little difference as he easily gets enough points on appeal.

Offline PeterTheRed ...

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #181 on: July 27, 2016, 01:21:04 am »
Or, you know, you can go check for yourself mate. There is nothing I can see but you're the one asking so feel free to go and look.

Not entirely sure if it's only competitive international games or not which count, if so then he gets in that way. If friendlies count then probably not.

As said, makes little difference as he easily gets enough points on appeal.

I already found it mate, but it is a bit complicated. There are references to the points system, but also to some exclusive cases. Maybe someone who is more competent in UK immigration laws will be able to explain it to us.

Offline Bend It Like Aurelio

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #182 on: July 27, 2016, 03:28:36 am »

This is the points system on appeals, just had a gander. This is from http://www.danielgeey.com/the-foreigner-debate-the-fas-new-work-permit-regulations-explained/



1) The value of the transfer fee being paid for the player is in the top 25% of all transfers to Premier League clubs in the previous 2 windows = 3 points

2) The value of the transfer fee being paid for the player is between the 50th and 75th % of all transfers to Premier League clubs in the previous 2 windows = 2 points

3) The wages being paid to the player by the applicant club is in the top 25% of the top 30 earners at the club = 3 points

4) The wages being paid to the player by the applicant club are between the 50th and 75th % of all the top 30 earners at the club = 2 points

5) The player’s current club is in a Top League[3] and the player has played in 30% or more of the available domestic league minutes = 1 point

6) The player’s current club has played in the group stages or onwards of the Champions League, Europa League or the Copa Libertadores within the last 12 months and the player has played in 30% or more of the available domestic league minutes = 1 point

[3] Defined as the six European leagues which provide the most players to the top 20 squads in the FIFA World Rankings and the two Central and South American leagues which provide the most players to the top 20 squads in the FIFA World Rankings.


There is no more exceptional talent clause.

Offline SwordInYourGut

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #183 on: July 27, 2016, 03:45:28 am »
Just double checked. As he is under 21 and Serbia are ranked 47, he'd need to have played in 75% of their games in last year. Haven't gone back and looked but he may well have done that.

If not he most definitely gains enough points via his fee and wages and previous appearances.
Doesn't he get a work permit without restriction because he is European?

Offline xbugawugax

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #184 on: July 27, 2016, 03:52:34 am »
got a feeling klopp using his german influence in the loan deal....

hope he develops well there and come back to us a better player



Offline Bend It Like Aurelio

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #185 on: July 27, 2016, 04:41:56 am »
Doesn't he get a work permit without restriction because he is European?

Serbia is not part of the EU.

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #186 on: July 27, 2016, 07:26:49 am »
So if he has a strong season at Hertha and we pay him enough that should get us 4 points and hopefully a visa.
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Offline PeterTheRed ...

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #187 on: July 27, 2016, 07:52:03 am »
There is no more exceptional talent clause.

That secondary examination option is even more liberal than the exceptional talent clause.

Offline Bend It Like Aurelio

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #188 on: July 27, 2016, 08:20:06 am »
That secondary examination option is even more liberal than the exceptional talent clause.

Eh, how exactly?

Offline PeterTheRed ...

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #189 on: July 27, 2016, 10:15:06 am »
Eh, how exactly?

Take a look at it.

Quote
If the player does not meet the above points based system review, there is a secondary examination under which if the player scores 5 points or more, the panel may recommend that an application is granted. Points can be scored if, for example, the player has played in the final qualification rounds of the Champions League, Europa League or the Copa Libertadores within the last 12 months and the player has played in 30% or more of the available domestic league minutes. The review at this stage is more flexible meaning that the panel can take into account the circumstances if no transfer fee is payable (perhaps because the player has reached the end of his contract) or if the player satisfies some but not all of the automatic criteria.

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #190 on: July 27, 2016, 10:17:27 am »
Take a look at it.

Have you looked at more than that paragraph? Like the actual points awarded in this appeals process?

It's a lot harder than the previous exceptional talent clause as it's measurable. Previously that was more of an opinion based system which if you argued your case well enough you could get the permit - which was the whole reason this points based system was brought in, so it became harder.

Even under this secondary appeals process Allan doesn't get a work permit currently.

Offline Notfromaroundhere

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #191 on: July 27, 2016, 11:44:06 am »
Four points is the requirement, yes? So if he plays 30% of the Bundesliga minutes, 30% of the Europa League minutes, and is roughly among the top 20-23 earners at LFC when they apply, it's sorted for next season..?

Offline PeterTheRed ...

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #192 on: July 27, 2016, 11:59:18 am »
Have you looked at more than that paragraph? Like the actual points awarded in this appeals process?

It's a lot harder than the previous exceptional talent clause as it's measurable. Previously that was more of an opinion based system which if you argued your case well enough you could get the permit - which was the whole reason this points based system was brought in, so it became harder.

Even under this secondary appeals process Allan doesn't get a work permit currently.

So, now you also have a degree in Immigration Law?

Relax a bit. You don't need to argue about everything.

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #193 on: July 27, 2016, 12:40:39 pm »
Four points is the requirement, yes? So if he plays 30% of the Bundesliga minutes, 30% of the Europa League minutes, and is roughly among the top 20-23 earners at LFC when they apply, it's sorted for next season..?

Five is the requirement. Probably need to give the lad a pay rise. He's worth it or he isn't.

So, now you also have a degree in Immigration Law?

Relax a bit. You don't need to argue about everything.
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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #194 on: July 27, 2016, 12:44:28 pm »
Five is the requirement.

4 in the appeals process (i.e. doesn't make the required international caps). 5 points in the secondary examination.

These are only targets, if a player reaches them they can still not be recommended for a work permit but it's likely they will be.

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #195 on: July 27, 2016, 12:45:56 pm »
So, now you also have a degree in Immigration Law?

No, but I can read. The guidelines are very simple and clear.

I know you probably don't have time, you know, with watching every game from the top leagues around the whole world so you can have such a broad knowledge of every single player.

I used to know a banned member who was like that actually...

Offline PeterTheRed ...

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #196 on: July 27, 2016, 12:53:32 pm »
No, but I can read. The guidelines are very simple and clear.

I know you probably don't have time, you know, with watching every game from the top leagues around the whole world so you can have such a broad knowledge of every single player.

I used to know a banned member who was like that actually...

I don't know what are you talking about, but I will try to avoid you from now on. You are looking for petty arguments in every thread, and I am really not interested in that.

Offline pyroparty

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #197 on: July 27, 2016, 12:55:08 pm »
I don't know what are you talking about, but I will try to avoid you from now on. You are looking for petty arguments in every thread, and I am really not interested in that.

You a Vardar fan lad?

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #198 on: July 27, 2016, 01:09:31 pm »
I don't know what are you talking about, but I will try to avoid you from now on. You are looking for petty arguments in every thread, and I am really not interested in that.

I'm unsure where you think I'm being petty in here - I corrected you, was right about it, and you've decided to get pissy.

Offline Bend It Like Aurelio

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Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #199 on: July 27, 2016, 01:46:00 pm »
Take a look at it.

Can you please clarify your original statement why you think the new system is more liberal than the exceptional talent clause? I would like to hear your explanation.