Author Topic: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?  (Read 328509 times)

Offline jambutty

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #880 on: January 10, 2022, 02:38:18 pm »
As long as we're discussing cultural evolution:


Rolling Stone
APRIL 26, 2017 1:21PM ET
Studio 54: 10 Wild Stories From Club’s Debauched Heyday
Horses on the dance floor, an orgy in the street, Andy Warhol and Donald Trump sightings, and other tales from NYC’s most legendary nightspot

By JORDAN RUNTAGH

For 33 months, Studio 54 was the American bacchanal, an unprecedented mix of glamorous sophistication and primal hedonism. The brainchild of Steve Rubell and Ian Schrager, the club opened in a onetime CBS soundstage on April 26th, 1977, and immediately became the epicenter of nightlife in New York City – and the world. The sex, drugs and disco on offer at Studio 54 served as the perfect release for a generation raised under the pressures of Watergate and the Vietnam War. Though the club was ultimately destroyed by vice and greed, its short reign defined the flashy exuberance of the late Seventies, before the scourge of AIDS ended the party forever.

In the four decades since Studio 54 first opened its doors, tales of what went on behind the velvet rope have become modern myths. What’s more, they’re almost all true. Read on for 10 of the craziest stories from the club’s legendary heyday.

1. Donald and Ivana Trump attended the opening – while a Quaalude-fueled orgy occurred outside in the street.
Among the first to appear outside the doors of Studio 54 on opening night was Donald Trump, accompanied by his new wife, Ivana. The couple had been enjoying dinner a short time earlier with socialite Nikki Haskell and her date at the iconic Upper East Side eatery Elaine’s. “I said, ‘C’mon! There’s this new club opening tonight. Why don’t we go?'” Haskell remembered in Anthony Haden-Guest’s book The Last Party. “So we got to Studio 54 and there was nobody there. We were like the first. We knocked on the door. Donald hadn’t built Trump tower. Nobody knew him in those days.” Their knocks went unanswered. “About fifteen minutes later we were just getting ready to leave, and they opened one of the doors. They didn’t even know we were waiting out there.”

The atmosphere was hardly better inside, as the couples wandered through the empty disco. “They were still adjusting the lights and fixing the music,” says Haskell. Workers had been laying down black flooring less than an hour before, and when the bulbs behind the bar suddenly stopped working, gofers were frantically dispatched to the nearest bodega to purchase armloads of votive candles. DJ Richie Kaczor dropped the needle on the first record of the night, “Devil’s Gun” by C.J. and Company, but the party was initially dead. “About a half an hour later there were 50 or 60 people in there. We kept saying, ‘Gee, I wonder where everybody is?'”

The flow of revelers grew from a trickle to a torrent after 11 o’clock, and soon thousands swarmed the building. Traffic on 54th Street was brought to a standstill as both celebrities and humble ravers struggled to approach. Frank Sinatra was stranded in his limousine, unable to get near. Cher, Margaux Hemingway and a young Brooke Shields made it inside, but Warren Beatty, Kate Jackson and Henry Winkler did not.

With nowhere else to go, the party spilled onto the street. One clubgoer waited outside with a group of friends, including a doctor packing a jumbo bottle of Quaaludes. “The doctor started handing them out,” he told Haden-Guest. “About 30 people standing around us took them, and then everybody started having this mad sexual orgy. All the men had their dicks out … the women were showing their tits … everybody was feeling everybody else … the crowd was moving in waves … all of a sudden you would find yourself next to someone you didn’t know.”

Meanwhile, the future president was up to less scandalous shenanigans inside. “No one remembered him being there the first night. He was a non-entity. He was never on the dance floor,” Studio 54 busboy Richie Notar recalled in a 2017 BBC radio documentary. Nonetheless, Trump became something of a regular at the venue. “I’d go there a lot with dates and with friends, and with lots of people,” he told The Washington Post in 2016. According to Haskell, the non-drinking, non-dancing mogul had business reasons for making the scene. “He understood it was an opportunity to be grabbed. He was not there for the drug-fueled disco deliria. He was there to be seen with the famous people, to network, to cut the deal; whilst everyone else cut the coke.”

https://www.rollingstone.com/feature/studio-54-10-wild-stories-from-clubs-debauched-heyday-198626/



Click the link for the other 9 stories.
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Offline KillieRed

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #881 on: January 10, 2022, 02:56:47 pm »

I like the line “he realised it was an opportunity to be grabbed”. Or from what we know of him “grab”.
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Offline jambutty

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #882 on: January 10, 2022, 11:00:37 pm »
Reuters
New York man threatened to kill Donald Trump, prosecutors charge
By Jonathan Stempel - 6h ago


NEW YORK (Reuters) -A New York man upset with what he perceived as Donald Trump's threats to democracy was criminally charged on Monday with threatening to kill the former U.S. president, who he once referred to as Hitler.

Prosecutors said the defendant, Thomas Welnicki, 72, of Rockaway Beach, threatened to do "everything I can" to ensure Trump's death, and once inquired about Secret Service protection for former presidents and their children.

Welnicki was accused in a criminal complaint of discussing Trump's demise in several voluntary communications with U.S. Capitol Police and the Secret Service between July 2020 and December 2021, during and after Trump's presidency.

The case was brought as Trump, a Republican, continues pressing https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trumps-false-claims-debunked-2020-election-jan-6-riot-2022-01-06 false claims that widespread voting fraud caused him to lose the November 2020 election to Democrat Joe Biden.

"Mr. Welnicki intended no harm to anyone," his lawyer Deirdre von Dornum, attorney-in-charge of the federal defender's office in Brooklyn, said in an email. "He was expressing how distraught he was at what he saw as the threats to our democracy posed by former President Trump."

Lawyers and spokespeople for Trump did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

U.S. Magistrate Judge Vera Scanlon set bail at $50,000, and ordered Welnicki to undergo alcohol and mental health treatment and submit to GPS monitoring.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Victor Zapana said there remained "lingering concern" about the defendant following his "very concrete and scary threats."

Von Dornum countered that Welnicki had not left New York City for 15 years, and that if he were a danger "they would have arrested him sooner."

According to the criminal complaint, Welnicki told Capitol Police in July 2020 that if Trump lost the election and refused to step down, he would "acquire weapons" and "take him down."

Welnicki allegedly later called the Secret Service around Jan. 4, 2021, threatening to kill Trump and 12 unnamed congressional supporters, and referring to a $350,000 bounty.

"I will do anything I can to take out (Trump) and his 12 monkeys," Welnicki was quoted as saying. "Tomorrow (Trump) will be in Georgia, maybe I will."

Trump visited Georgia that day https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-promises-new-day-trump-heads-georgia-eve-pivotal-senate-runoffs-2021-01-04 to campaign for two incumbent Republican senators who sought unsuccessfully to win re-election and keep the U.S. Senate under Republican control.

Two days later, on Jan. 6, 2021, Trump supporters assaulted the U.S. Capitol in a failed bid to overturn the presidential election.

Prosecutors said Welnicki's threats continued into the autumn of 2021, when he likened Trump to Adolf Hitler and referred to Trump's children.

He also allegedly told the Secret Service on Dec. 2, 2021 that "the new Civil War could break out and taking up arms against the government is justified when ballots don't matter."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/new-york-man-threatened-to-kill-donald-trump-prosecutors-charge/ar-AASDbp9?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531
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Offline jambutty

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #883 on: January 13, 2022, 10:11:57 am »
it's dead funny for those of us outside the UK to watch the shitshow that's going on over there.

While it's lighter than the 1/6 investigation and the impending Yank Civil War, between Brexit, Andy's Antics and Boris' Garden Party, you lot look a shambles.
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Offline Elmo!

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #884 on: January 13, 2022, 10:45:39 am »
it's dead funny for those of us outside the UK to watch the shitshow that's going on over there.

While it's lighter than the 1/6 investigation and the impending Yank Civil War, between Brexit, Andy's Antics and Boris' Garden Party, you lot look a shambles.

It's been like yearls long game of one-upmanship to see which country can be the biggest shitshow.

Offline jambutty

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #885 on: January 13, 2022, 11:16:32 am »
It's been like yearls long game of one-upmanship to see which country can be the biggest shitshow.

There's no contest there, mate.

The U.S. has had it in spades for 5 years and counting.
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Offline ChaChaMooMoo

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #886 on: January 13, 2022, 11:21:44 am »
The U.S. has had it in spades for 5 years and counting.

Its more than just 5 years mate.

I would say, around 25-26 years since the political shitshow made its ugly appearance in the US politics.

But in the community and amongst the people, its probably older than that.

Its definitely become unbearable and cringe in the last 5 years.

Offline jambutty

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #887 on: January 13, 2022, 11:29:36 am »
We were moving in the right direction during the Obama years.
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Offline Corkboy

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #888 on: January 13, 2022, 01:42:16 pm »
We were moving in the right direction during the Obama years.

In retrospect, that's when the right totally lost their goddam minds.

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #889 on: January 13, 2022, 01:57:34 pm »
In retrospect, that's when the right totally lost their goddam minds.

And as a result you have to wonder if they've gone so far off the deep end that the damage is irreparable

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #890 on: January 13, 2022, 02:18:58 pm »
you lot look a shambles.


We are a fucking shambles.
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Offline jambutty

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #891 on: January 13, 2022, 02:34:04 pm »
In retrospect, that's when the right totally lost their goddam minds.
And as a result you have to wonder if they've gone so far off the deep end that the damage is irreparable

It's a political pendulum, innit.


Btw, If you're unaware of Bassem Youssef, you're missing something.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2022, 02:36:19 pm by jambutty »
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Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #892 on: January 13, 2022, 04:32:43 pm »
A judge has just given a former prison guard,who basically kidnapped a prisoner and committed rape,30 days to either join the military or go to jail.

The actual state of that actually being an option.
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Offline AndyInVA

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #893 on: January 13, 2022, 05:27:08 pm »
In retrospect, that's when the right totally lost their goddam minds.

So much basic respect to the political institution I felt went in the rubbish bin when Trump started questioning if Obamas birth certificate was real. Its been total bullshit after that.

I liked Trump for his 'America First' approach, but good grief I don't miss all the other bull shit that went with it

Offline jambutty

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #894 on: January 13, 2022, 05:31:35 pm »
I wonder how many Trump movies are in the pipeline.

Maybe in a few years he'll actually confess to the con of Trump Cuntry.
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Offline Riquende

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #895 on: January 13, 2022, 07:35:24 pm »
More apparent poppycock from the weekend gone that I forgot to copy in here. Something new for the usual suspects to laugh off.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/09/the-epic-struggle-for-americas-soul-is-just-getting-started

Quote
January 6 is not in the past; it is every day. It is regular citizens who threaten election officials, who ask ‘when can we use the guns?’, who vow to murder politicians who dare to vote their conscience. It is Republican lawmakers scrambling to make it harder for people to vote and subvert their will if they do. It is Trump who stokes the flames of conflict.

No one is talking about a remake of the 1861-65 US civil war. Instead, as in Ukraine or Libya, an “open insurgency” would probably involve (at least initially), disparate militias and their supporters pursuing forms of asymmetrical warfare – typically terrorist acts, bombings, assassinations, kidnappings. That said, worrying echoes of Confederate-era secessionism are once again heard in Texas and elsewhere.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jan/09/is-the-us-really-heading-for-a-second-civil-war

Quote
Not even the gloomiest pessimist is predicting a rerun of the 1861-65 civil war with a blue army and red army fighting pitched battles. “It would look more like Northern Ireland and what Britain experienced, where it’s more of an insurgency. It would probably be more decentralized than Northern Ireland because we have such a large country and there are so many militias all around the country.”

“They would turn to unconventional tactics, in particular terrorism, maybe even a little bit of guerrilla warfare, where they would target federal buildings, synagogues, places with large crowds. The strategy would be one of intimidation and to scare the American public into believing that the federal government isn’t capable of taking care of them.”
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Offline RainbowFlick

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #896 on: January 13, 2022, 10:45:15 pm »
I wonder if there's a US sports forum somewhere with a parallel thread to this but for the UK  :o
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Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #897 on: January 14, 2022, 12:01:46 am »
I wonder if there's a US sports forum somewhere with a parallel thread to this but for the UK  :o


Aghast that we don't allow sex offenders into our Armed forces  ;D
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Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #898 on: January 14, 2022, 12:18:52 am »
FFS

Quote
The US Supreme Court has blocked President Joe Biden's rule requiring workers at large companies to be vaccinated or masked and tested weekly.

The justices at the nation's highest court said the mandate exceeded the Biden administration's authority.

Separately they ruled that a more limited vaccine mandate could stand for staff at government-funded healthcare facilities.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59989476

Offline jambutty

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Offline Chakan

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #900 on: January 14, 2022, 12:58:43 am »
FFS


Doesn't stop companies doing it themselves though.

Citigroup one of the largest banks is starting to implement be vaccinated or be fired.

Offline ChaChaMooMoo

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #901 on: January 14, 2022, 07:43:25 am »
Yeah but now the employees can sue for malpractice and/or discrimination.

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #902 on: January 14, 2022, 09:03:51 am »
FFS

Dunno. Do we really want to set precedents where governments can meddle with the healthcare policies of private companies? Sure, we can all agree that this is a good reason, but once the door is opened where could that go, way down the line? Some headbanging GOP nutter gets in and mandates that any woman terminating a pregnancy has to lose their job?

The companies should be doing it themselves, of course. And mandates throughout the public sector make sense.

Yeah but now the employees can sue for malpractice and/or discrimination.

I think they have to prove that their stance on the vaccine is tied to something more tangible. I've seen plenty of discussion on watchdog subreddits over people applying for religious exemptions etc. Some companies won't want to expend the effort of fighting that, but some are (there was a guy chronicling his fight against Siemens as the deadline approached but I haven't seen an update on that in a while).
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Offline fowlermagic

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #903 on: January 14, 2022, 12:31:32 pm »
We were moving in the right direction during the Obama years.

As said by others that is when the closet KKK came out in force as from Alabama all the way to the Senate we saw racists in up roar. How could they be happy having a black President in charge who had a name that sounded like a Muslim terrorist.
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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #904 on: January 14, 2022, 01:59:35 pm »
Dunno. Do we really want to set precedents where governments can meddle with the healthcare policies of private companies? Sure, we can all agree that this is a good reason, but once the door is opened where could that go, way down the line? Some headbanging GOP nutter gets in and mandates that any woman terminating a pregnancy has to lose their job?

The companies should be doing it themselves, of course. And mandates throughout the public sector make sense.

I think they have to prove that their stance on the vaccine is tied to something more tangible. I've seen plenty of discussion on watchdog subreddits over people applying for religious exemptions etc. Some companies won't want to expend the effort of fighting that, but some are (there was a guy chronicling his fight against Siemens as the deadline approached but I haven't seen an update on that in a while).


The number 1 priority for all Govs should be the health and wellbeing of the people who put them in office.

So imo yeah.
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Offline Chakan

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #905 on: January 14, 2022, 02:49:04 pm »
Yeah but now the employees can sue for malpractice and/or discrimination.

Unless they get a verified exemption then no they can't. Well I guess they can but they won't win.

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #906 on: January 16, 2022, 11:45:42 am »

Offline jambutty

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #907 on: January 16, 2022, 07:45:37 pm »
The Daily Beast
Trump's Arizona Speech Proves His Shock Comic Act Has Jumped the Shark
Opinion by Matt Lewis - 2h ago


There was a time when Donald Trump made news with his rallies—when he said things that utterly shocked us. Who could forget the firestorm he started, for example, when he went after Colin Kaepernick and other NFL players who knelt during the national anthem in 2017, or earlier that year when he called Barack Obama “the founder of ISIS”?

Trump’s performance in Arizona on Saturday night—his first rally in months and his much-hyped chance to respond to the one-year anniversary of the Jan. 6 Capitol riot—was neither shocking nor terribly newsworthy.

It didn’t even merit a mention on The Washington Post’s homepage Sunday morning. The New York Times only used Trump’s speech as a peg to write a broader story under the headline: “Trump Rally Underscores G.O.P. Tension Over How to Win in 2022.”

A few years ago, Trump rallies spawned breathless coverage and drove multiple news cycles. But The Times’ story isn’t even about the rally, and their mentioning it is mostly perfunctory.

To keep readers’ attention, The Times spotlighted a cast of supporting characters, such as Kari Lake, a Trump-endorsed candidate for Arizona governor who used to be a local news anchor. The photo of her in The Times shows her wearing some sort of cape, which I think we can all find mysterious. No wonder they used her.

TV sitcom showrunners sometimes react to declining ratings by introducing a “Cousin Oliver”—which, quite often, is a cute kid whose smart-alecky sass is meant to liven up a tired atmosphere. Sometimes it works, sometimes it’s evidence a show has simply “jumped the shark.” But Trump’s never been an ensemble cast type of personality. He’s the whole show, and the surrounding players are as replaceable and ephemeral as Spinal Tap’s exploding drummers.

The Arizona rally may have been the unofficial kickoff of his 2024 campaign. But this time around, Trump will have to work harder to break through—and not just because the media is less likely to give him ample air time free of charge.

Call it the Andrew Dice Clay conundrum: If your entire schtick is based on shock value, eventually the audience grows inured, and the lack of substance becomes embarrassingly plain.

Trump made assertions in Arizona Saturday night that might once have garnered buzz (on Sunday morning, at least). But they’re getting little play. In its writeup of the rally, Politico said Trump “issued a blistering response to Democrats” and that he “opened his speech by falsely claiming ‘proof’ that the 2020 election was ‘rigged.’” A more telling fact is that this “blistering response” was not deemed worthy enough to be the site’s lead story. What might have spawned outrage and wagging tongues a few years prior now elicits a collective chorus of yawns.

Here’s the thing about moving the Overton Window: The process of shifting standards and assumptions matters greatly at the societal level. It’s bad when news consumers become desensitized to a former president erroneously claiming an election was stolen. It also cannibalizes one of Trump’s greatest assets: his ability to shock and awe. His schtick is tired, and that can often equate to a professional death sentence.

Trump’s rock-concert rallies provide enough of his greatest hits for the fans and groupies who actually attend them. But for performers to remain relevant, they require new material. And politics is more stand-up comedy than rock and roll.

The Rolling Stones can play their more-current hits a million times, yet we will still keep clamoring for “Sympathy For The Devil.” But can you imagine Chris Rock getting an HBO special and doing 2016 material? The same goes for Trump. Nobody wants to hear a political retread who rehashes his same tired conspiracy theories ad nauseam.

Trump seems like the sort of man who could appreciate the temporal, consumerist, and disposable culture of modernity. We fetishize what is new and what is next. Yet, Trump’s obsession with relitigating an election that is now two calendar years past runs contrary to this modern American tendency. In this regard, his ego trumps his marketing savvy.

To be sure, Trump also benefits from the (bogus) sense he was wronged. But it’s hard to see how such a backward-looking 75-year-old man can remain in the vanguard. On Saturday night, Trump wasn’t just stuck in 2020—he was also stuck in the 20th century. There were numerous references to communism (more so than usual), including a reference to the Jan. 6 Commission’s witness interviews, which he compared to Stalinist show trials.

You might forgive Trump for such fanciful attacks on Nancy Pelosi and Congressional Democrats, since his criticism of Joe Biden isn’t terribly effective. Trump isn’t skilled at prosecuting a substantive policy critique, and, despite Biden’s low approval ratings, it’s really hard to get too worked up about him (the best Trump could do was mock him for seeming dazed and confused). All this is to say, the new material didn’t kill on Saturday night.

The theme was “Make America Great Again…Again.” Even Trump’s apparel hinted at the likely sequel. He donned a red “Make America Great Again” hat that partially obscured his eyes most of the night, but it wasn’t the iconic version from the 2016 election. He was attempting to have it both ways by playing his “greatest hits” and floating some new material. But does lightning ever really strike twice? For every “Godfather II” masterpiece there’s dozens of “Ghostbusters II” failed sequels.

We’d be fools to count Trump out entirely. If anyone in American lore is capable of a third act—it’s him. But he needs new material, and fast, because if his Arizona rally shows anything, it’s that the old routine just doesn’t land anymore.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/trump-s-arizona-speech-proves-his-shock-comic-act-has-jumped-the-shark/ar-AASQ73w?ocid=msedgntp
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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #908 on: January 17, 2022, 11:57:15 am »
The New York Times
Tensions Rise Between Trump and Ron DeSantis
Jonathan Martin and Maggie Haberman - Yesterday 10:41 PM


For months, former President Donald J. Trump has been grumbling quietly to friends and visitors to his Palm Beach mansion about a rival Republican power center in another Florida mansion, some 400 miles to the north.

Gov. Ron DeSantis, a man Mr. Trump believes he put on the map, has been acting far less like an acolyte and more like a future competitor, Mr. Trump complains. With his stock rising fast in the party, the governor has conspicuously refrained from saying he would stand aside if Mr. Trump runs for the Republican nomination for president in 2024.

“The magic words,” Trump has said to several associates and advisers.

That long-stewing resentment burst into public view recently in a dispute over a seemingly unrelated topic: Covid policies. After Mr. DeSantis refused to reveal his full Covid vaccination history, the former president publicly acknowledged he had received a booster. Last week, he seemed to swipe at Mr. DeSantis by blasting as “gutless” politicians who dodge the question out of fear of blowback from vaccine skeptics.

Mr. DeSantis shot back on Friday, criticizing Mr. Trump’s early handling of the pandemic and saying he regretted not being more vocal in his complaints.

The back and forth exposed how far Republicans have shifted to the right on coronavirus politics. The doubts Mr. Trump amplified about public health expertise have only spiraled since he left office. Now his defense of the vaccines — even if often subdued and almost always with the caveat in the same breath that he opposes mandates — has put him uncharacteristically out of step with the hard-line elements of his party’s base and provided an opening for a rival.

But that it was Mr. DeSantis — a once-loyal member of the Trump court — wielding the knife made the tension about much more.

At its core, the dispute amounts to a stand-in for the broader challenge confronting Republicans at the outset of midterm elections. They are led by a defeated former president who demands total fealty, brooks no criticism and is determined to sniff out, and then snuff out, any threat to his control of the party.

That includes the 43-year-old DeSantis, who has told friends he believes Mr. Trump’s expectation that he bend the knee is asking too much. That refusal has set up a generational clash and a test of loyalty in the de facto capital of today’s G.O.P., one watched by Republicans elsewhere who’ve ridden to power on Mr. Trump’s coattails.

Already, party figures are attempting to calm matters.

“They’re the two most important leaders in the Republican Party,” said Brian Ballard, a longtime Florida lobbyist with connections to both men, predicting Mr. Trump and Mr. DeSantis “will be personal and political friends for the rest of their careers.”

Mr. Trump’s aides also have tried to tamp down questions about the former president’s frustrations, so as not to elevate Mr. DeSantis.

Still, Mr. Trump has made no secret of his preparations for a third run for the White House. And while Mr. DeSantis, who is up for re-election this year, has not declared his plans, he is widely believed to be eyeing the presidency.

Mr. Trump and his aides are mindful of Republicans’ increasingly public fatigue with the drama that trails Mr. Trump. The former president’s false claims about fraud in the 2020 election — which Mr. DeSantis has not challenged — and his role in the events leading to the Jan. 6 riot at the Capitol have some Republicans looking for a fresh start.

Mr. DeSantis is often the first name Republicans cite as a possible Trump-style contender not named Trump.

“DeSantis would be a formidable 2024 candidate in the Trump lane should Trump not run,” said Dan Eberhart, a Republican donor. “He’s Trump but a little smarter, more disciplined and brusque without being too brusque.”

Notably, Mr. Trump, a longtime student of charisma and mass appeal, as well as an avid reader of polling, has refrained so far from publicly attacking Mr. DeSantis, who is a distant but potent second to him in polls on the 2024 G.O.P. field. His restraint is a break from the mockery and bullying he often uses to attack Republicans he perceives as vulnerable. Mr. Trump made no reference to the governor at a rally in Arizona on Saturday.

Mr. DeSantis has $70 million in the bank for his re-election, a war chest he stocked with help from the Republican rank-and-file and donor class, alike. He has raised his profile in the same spaces Mr. Trump once dominated. The governor is ubiquitous on Fox News, where he is routinely met with the sort of softballs that once arced toward Mr. Trump. And he frequently mixes with the well-tanned Republican donor community near the former president’s winter home in South Florida.

It was not always this way.

Mr. DeSantis was a little-known Florida congressman in 2017, when Mr. Trump, who was then the president, spotted him on television and took keen interest. Mr. DeSantis, an Ivy League-educated military veteran and smooth-talking defender of the new president, was exactly what Mr. Trump liked in a politician.

It wasn’t long before Mr. Trump blessed Mr. DeSantis’s bid for governor and sent in staff to help him, lifting the lawmaker to a victory over a better-known rival for the party’s nomination.

Mr. DeSantis survived the general election and has often governed in a style that mirrors his patron, slashing at the left and scrapping with the news media. But that alone doesn’t placate Mr. Trump. As with other Republicans he has endorsed, the former president appears to take a kind of ownership interest in Mr. DeSantis — and to believe that he is owed dividends and deference.

“Look, I helped Ron DeSantis at a level that nobody’s ever seen before,” Mr. Trump said in an interview for a forthcoming book, “Insurgency,” on the rightward shift of the Republican Party, by the New York Times reporter Jeremy W. Peters. Mr. Trump said he believed Mr. DeSantis “didn’t have a chance” of winning without his help.

The former president’s expectation of deference from Mr. DeSantis is a reminder to other Republicans that a Trump endorsement comes with a price, a demand that could prove particularly consequential should he run again and have a stable of Republican lawmakers in his debt.

At times, Mr. Trump has sought to kindle his relationship with Mr. DeSantis. He has suggested the governor would be a strong choice for vice president. Similar courtship has helped win deference from other potential rivals. But Mr. DeSantis has not relented.

“I wonder why the guy won’t say he won’t run against me,” Mr. Trump has said to several associates and advisers, who spoke on condition of anonymity to describe private conversations.

Mr. Trump began the recent contretemps by attacking the governor’s refusal to acknowledge whether he had received a Covid-19 booster shot.

“The answer is ‘Yes,’ but they don’t want to say it, because they’re gutless,” Mr. Trump said in a television interview this month, referring only to “politicians” but clearly alluding to Mr. DeSantis. “You got to say it — whether you had it or not, say it.”

Mr. DeSantis’s response came on Friday in an interview on the conservative podcast “Ruthless.” Speaking in front of an in-person audience near St. Petersburg, Fla., the governor said one of his biggest regrets was not forcefully opposing Mr. Trump’s calls for lockdowns when the coronavirus first began to spread in the spring of 2020.

“Knowing now what I know then, if that was a threat earlier, I would have been much louder,” Mr. DeSantis said. The governor said he had been “telling Trump ‘stop the flights from China’” but argued he never thought in early March 2020 that the virus “would lead to locking down the country.”

Mr. DeSantis then moved quickly to place blame on Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, who advised Trump on the country’s Covid response, a much safer target with conservatives.

The former president did not immediately respond. Without a Twitter account, his hair-trigger retorts have become less frequent. A spokesman for Mr. Trump also did not respond to requests for comment. An adviser to Mr. DeSantis declined to comment.

Mr. DeSantis, however, has touched on a delicate issue, one of the few on which Mr. Trump is to the left of his party’s hard-liners: the efficacy of the vaccine and deference to public health experts’ advice on how to curb the spread of the virus.

Mr. Trump has begun blasting warning shots at Mr. DeSantis and other aspiring Republicans, signaling he intends to defend the vaccines his administration helped develop. In an interview with Candace Owens, a right-wing media personality, the former president said “the vaccine worked” and dismissed conspiracy theories. “People aren’t dying when they take the vaccine,” he said.

Mr. DeSantis, though, has been much more eager to focus on his resistance to Covid-19 restrictions, past and present, than to make a robust case for vaccination and booster shots.

Notably, at his rally on Saturday, Mr. Trump did not promote vaccines and criticized so-called Covid “lockdowns.”

Mr. Trump’s loudest antagonists are likely to continue to stoke the tension between the two men. Ann Coulter, the conservative commentator who has fallen out with the former president, delighted in the dust-up this week.

“Trump is demanding to know Ron DeSantis’s booster status, and I can now reveal it,” Ms. Coulter wrote on Twitter. “He was a loyal booster when Trump ran in 2016, but then he learned our president was a liar and con man whose grift was permanent.”

In an email, Ms. Coulter, herself a part-time Florida resident, put a finer point on what makes Mr. DeSantis’s rise unsettling for the former president. “Trump is done,” she wrote. “You guys should stop obsessing over him.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/tensions-rise-between-trump-and-ron-desantis/ar-AASQB2M?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531
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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #909 on: January 17, 2022, 01:57:14 pm »
We really need the autocorrect: “disgraced former President Trump”.
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Offline jambutty

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #910 on: January 18, 2022, 01:19:59 pm »
The Hill
Trump-DeSantis tensions ratchet up
Max Greenwood - 2h ago


The long-simmering tensions between former President Donald Trump and Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) are reaching a boiling point ahead of a potential 2024 primary clash.

Trump has griped behind the scenes for months about DeSantis's rapid political rise, including chatter about a future White House bid. But the complaints from the former president have only grown louder, raising concerns among some Republicans about a looming brawl between two GOP heavyweights.

"President Trump is the one clearly picking a fight here, and it's a fight that's too early, and unnecessary," said Sam Nunberg, a former adviser to Trump who stressed that he is neutral in a dustup between Trump and DeSantis. "We're not in Republican primary season. This is a fight for mid-2023. It's not a fight to start having in 2022."

Still, Nunberg added, "If Donald Trump believes he is punching down when he's attacking Ron DeSantis, then why do it?"

The tensions have come into sharper focus in recent days. An article published on Sunday by The New York Times offered a detailed accounting of an increasingly confrontational relationship between Trump and DeSantis.

Likewise, a story published by Axios on Monday reporting that Trump has been privately disparaging DeSantis as "dull" and lacking in "personal charisma" found itself front-and-center on the conservative website Drudge Report.

And just last week, Trump appeared to take a thinly veiled shot at DeSantis for refusing to say publicly whether he has received his COVID-19 booster shot. In an interview with the conservative One America News Network, the former president slammed "gutless" politicians who won't reveal their booster status, a comment that was widely viewed as aimed at the Florida governor.

"The answer is yes, but they don't want to say it, because they're gutless," Trump said. "You got to say it. Whether you had it or not, say it."

Trump's frustration with DeSantis stems in part from the governor's refusal to say publicly that he won't challenge Trump for the 2024 Republican nod if the former president decides to make another run for the White House. Several other would-be contenders have already done so, while DeSantis has largely skirted the question in public.

Trump is also said to be irked by what he sees as DeSantis's lack of deference. A former congressman, DeSantis won the 2018 Republican nomination for governor after Trump endorsed him over a better-known opponent, former Florida Agriculture Commissioner Adam Putnam.

While DeSantis's political brand in many ways mirrors Trump's combative style, he's also begun to carve out his own reputation, notably as a staunch opponent of COVID-19 mandates and restrictions.

In a recent interview on the conservative "Ruthless" podcast, DeSantis said that he regretted not pushing back more aggressively when Trump advised Americans to stay home in the early days of the coronavirus pandemic.

"I was probably the first governor in January of 2020 to call for travel restrictions from China. I supported President Trump when he did that," DeSantis said. "But we have to take a step back and acknowledge that those travel restrictions just didn't work."

But DeSantis has also been careful to avoid direct confrontation with Trump, especially given the fact that he's facing reelection this year and needs to maintain the support of the former president's loyal voter base. In the interview with "Ruthless," DeSantis dismissed the notion that his relationship with Trump had soured, blaming the media for fueling such rumors.

"You cannot fall for the bait," he said. "You know what they're trying to do, so just don't take it. Just keep on keeping on. We need everybody united for a big red wave in 2022. We've gotta fight the left, and not only fight, but beat the left. And that's what we're doing in Florida."

And even in saying that he wished he had spoken out more aggressively against Trump's early calls for coronavirus restrictions, DeSantis blamed "people like" Anthony Fauci, former director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease, for advising Trump on his early response to the pandemic.

Still, DeSantis's appeal among Republicans - including Trump's base - is clear. Ford O'Connell, a Florida-based GOP strategist and former congressional candidate, said the governor has been successful in taking aspects of Trump's political brand and making them his own, especially amid the ongoing coronavirus pandemic.

"What he's done is he's taken Donald Trump's America First playbook and crafted it as a Florida First playbook," O'Connell said.

"If you had told me that Ron DeSantis would display more political courage than Greg Abbott, I wouldn't have believed it," he added, referring to the Republican governor of Texas. "The idea that DeSantis gave all the other Republicans a backbone and cover to do what's best for their states is why conservatives are rewarding him now."

One Republican consultant with ties to Florida said that part of the interest in DeSantis as a future presidential candidate stems from the perception among many in the party that the Florida governor is effectively "Trump without the baggage."

"He's a little more polished, I think. He's got the Harvard credentials, he served in the military, he's the governor of the third largest state, but he can still speak the language of the MAGA crowd," the consultant said. "With Trump, there's still a lot of drama, so I think it probably worries him that there's this other guy who's getting a lot of attention."

To be sure, DeSantis has tried to tamp down speculation about his ambitions for 2024. He officially kicked off his 2022 reelection bid in November and has said that he's focused on the governor's mansion.

Some Republicans have also sought to dismiss talk of a budding feud between Trump and DeSantis. Giancarlo Sopo, a Republican media strategist who worked on the Trump campaign's national Hispanic advertising in 2020, said the recent news stories about the tensions were part of an effort to shift attention away from President Biden's political woes.

"The 'Trump vs. DeSantis' stories are not a coincidence. They're a Beltway concoction meant to distract from Biden's disastrous presidency," Sopo tweeted. "Don't take the bait."

Regardless, DeSantis looks in many ways more like a budding candidate for national office than someone content on remaining in the governor's mansion. His political committee has amassed a nearly $70 million war chest.

And in his annual State of the State address last week, DeSantis repeatedly slammed the federal government over coronavirus restrictions and mandates, while proclaiming that his administration "was right" and the feds "were wrong" in their approach to the pandemic.

DeSantis's popularity among Republicans is also reflected in polling. While surveys of the potential 2024 GOP primary field show him running a distant second behind Trump, he has routinely scored double-digit support and gains significant ground when Trump is taken out of the running.

There's also plenty of time between now and the start of the 2024 primaries for DeSantis to close the gap. Aubrey Jewett, a professor of political science at the University of Central Florida, said that while Trump remains the frontrunner for now, that may not necessarily be the case in another two years.

"Right now, things do look pretty good for DeSantis politically, but I still think there's a ranking and it's Trump first then currently, as of today, DeSantis," Jewett said. "But we don't know that that will be the case for long. Historically, early frontrunners fade."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-desantis-tensions-ratchet-up/ar-AASThzY?li=BBnb7Kz
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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #911 on: January 19, 2022, 11:19:56 pm »
Quote
Nobody wants to hear a political retread 

Misread this bit the first time

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #912 on: January 20, 2022, 04:18:22 pm »
If America is the land of the "free".....then the current shit-show must be precisely how everybody (in part)...wants it to be...??

The next time a US sized continent is pioneered and constitutionalised...how about declaring it the land of the "wise"...you know, just to try and add a bit of positive intent and influential steerage for the generations who'll end up living there?

The problem with "freedom" being the default golden calf that everybody bows down to...is that it's such a nebulous political expression and practically anybody can lay claim to their own private version of it.

If your nation declares itself the land of the "wise" however, and then you begin to present as an utter shit-show to other onlooking nations, then they're naturally going to say:

"The land of the WISE is it? We think NOT!! Look at you all. You are all at war with eachother along every possible divisive fault-line there is, and if there aren't enough genuine fault-lines to be had...you begin to manufacture them and teach them in your universities in order to further undermine any notion of national unity and single purpose.."

So BIG DEAL...the US is the land of the "free.."

All this means is that it's got a gigantic motor but absolutely NO rudder!!

It can only ever be united when it comes under attack....but even then, a fair portion will say that it was actually the US government doing the "attacking" on its own citizens.

That's when you know your country's f**ked!!

Not because the Government would actually DO this, but because such a large number of it's citizens actually believe they'd do this!!

But hey...that's "freedom" folks.

Being free to think what you like, and say what you think about practically anything and everything.

I suppose the one good thing about being the land of the "free" is that your country obviates its own "wisdom" quotient for all to see.

If your country is a little bit shy in the wisdom department...then at least all that freedom you've got will make sure that your daily follies are announced to the world in real-time 24/7 high definition coverage.

Because..."hey...we're FREE don't ya know..."

Yes you're "free" and yes we do know, and we do get it.

It's how you're all employing your "freedom" that's really not too impressive at the moment.

You've got no fascist, dictatorial or quasi-religious governments to deal with. You're no longer bound to parochial European politics.

All you really have to do is work out how to get along with eachother on your own land-mass.

Your global real estate is defended to the hilt on land, at sea and in space....so that ought not be a worry.

And yet......

 :o


YNWA

Offline jambutty

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #913 on: January 21, 2022, 10:08:41 am »
Mediaite
Steve Bannon Accuses Lindsey Graham of Being One of Biden’s Five ‘Scumbag’ GOP ‘Traitors’
Alex Griffing - Yesterday 7:01 PM


Former Trump campaign manager and adviser, Steve Bannon, accused Lindsey Graham (R-SC) of being one of the five “traitors” to MAGA world that are secretly supporting President Joe Biden.

Bannon said on his popular War Room podcast on Thursday, “Have enough guts to step up and tell us, Lindsey Graham, who you are.” Bannon was referring to the five Republican senators that Biden said during his press conference Wednesday “told me that they agree with whatever I’m talking about for them to do.”

Biden refused to divulge the names of these Republicans, who he claims fear retribution if they openly supported him. “Did you ever think that one man out of office could intimidate an entire party where they’re unwilling to take any vote contrary to what he thinks should be taken for fear of being defeated in a primary?” Biden asked rhetorically.

Bannon vowed to figure out who the senators are, although he was quick to suspect one of them is Graham. “The five traitors — and this is the scumbags and slimeballs you have here in the nation’s capital — he got five Republican senators have told him they agree with what he’s doing,” Bannon raged. “We are gonna find out who you are,” Bannon insisted.

“They agree with what he’s doing and they would vote and support him, but they’re afraid of, wait for it, the War Room Posse,” Bannon continued, citing his own podcast’s followers.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/steve-bannon-accuses-lindsey-graham-of-being-one-of-bidens-five-scumbag-gop-traitors/ar-AASZgJD?li=BBnb7Kz
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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #914 on: January 21, 2022, 11:38:56 am »
Why aren’t these traitors voting with Bidens agenda? Playing the long game like soviet sleepers? I was gonna say the likes of Bannon don’t do logic, but the truth is they don’t care as long as they can continue conning rubes out of their (border wall) money.
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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #915 on: January 22, 2022, 08:21:09 pm »
ABC News
Sen. Kyrsten Sinema formally censured by Arizona Democratic Party
3h ago


The Arizona Democratic Party's executive committee formally censured Sen. Kyrsten Sinema on Saturday morning as a result of her inaction on changing the filibuster rules to pass voting rights reform.

"...on the matter of the filibuster and the urgency to protect voting rights, we have been crystal clear. In the choice between an archaic legislative norm and protecting Arizonans’ right to vote, we choose the latter, and we always will," Chairwoman Raquel Teran said in a statement.

"While we take no pleasure in this announcement, the ADP Executive Board has decided to formally censure Senator Sinema as a result of her failure to do whatever it takes to ensure the health of our democracy.”

Sinema is facing renewed heat from those who helped elect her after she and Sen. Joe Manchin of West Virginia this week were the only two Democrats to vote against filibuster reform, effectively derailing passage of voting rights legislation.

The slim Democratic majority in the Senate meant filibuster reform was seen as crucial for passing the Freedom to Vote: John R. Lewis Act -- a top priority for Democrats and President Joe Biden.

Arizona Democrats organized heavily to elect Sinema to the Senate -- she previously served in the U.S. House -- helping give her a narrow victory. They lobbied Sinema for months to change her stance on the filibuster, but many were unable to get a meeting with the senator.

With her refusal to change the filibuster rule -- siding with Republicans -- and voting rights dead for now in the Senate, Democrats in Arizona are fundraising to support Sinema's primary challenger in 2024. Influential Vermont Independent Sen. Bernie Sanders said this week that he'd support a challenge to Sinema.

Over the summer, the Arizona Democratic Party promised to give Sinema a vote of "no confidence" if she didn't change her stance to clear the way voting reform. They issued her censure Saturday morning.

"This should not be a partisan issue -- the duty to protect our most fundamental right to vote is one that we all share," Arizona Democratic Party Chairwoman Raquel Teran said in a statement. "We were counting on Sen. Sinema to fight for Arizona, find a path forward, and protect our democracy, but on this issue she has fallen short. Right now, Arizona is ground-zero for the modern-day fight for voting rights, and we don't have any time to waste."

The Grand Canyon state is a hotspot for Republican-led changes on voting. After the 2020 election, the state Senate ordered a partisan review of millions of the state's ballots, which unfolded while the Republican-controlled state legislature expressed focus on restrictive voting bills. Republicans all but eliminated the state's permanent early voting list, making it so ballots are no longer automatically sent to voters who haven't used the system. The bills were a cornerstone of GOP lawmaking in 2021, and the 2022 session continues to focus on election reform.

Activists and voters at home point to these Republican-led efforts as a backdrop for Sinema's refusal to budge.

Sinema lost a major endorsement this week from Emily's List, a large political organization that bankrolls campaigns they endorse, including those who support abortion rights.

A coalition of groups -- made up of Democrats in the state -- wrote to the group asking for it to act on the issue. Before the vote, Emily's List announced it would not endorse Sinema again if she didn't change her position.

"If Sen. Sinema can not support a path forward for the passage of this legislation, we believe she undermines the foundations of our democracy, her own path to victory and also the mission of EMILY's List, and we will be unable to endorse her moving forward," Emily's List President Laphonza Butler said in a statement.

Those same activists have written to other big political donor groups, including the Human Rights Campaign, which focuses on LGBTQ+ issues.

Groups looking to fund a primary challenger have raised at least $455,000. Two groups have yet to single out a candidate, but other Democrats are lobbying Rep. Ruben Gallego to challenge Sinema. One political action committee, dubbed "Run Ruben Run," will funnel money in his direction should he choose to enter the race.

"I'm disappointed by the failure of the Senate to move the John Lewis Voting Rights Act. But I'm not giving up & neither should you. Let's work hard to elect good Democrats who support voting rights and defeat the ones who don't — in 22 and beyond," Gallego tweeted.

The congressman also told CNN that his phone has been ringing with requests for him to jump in against Sinema, saying there is "a whole lot of frustration over a lot of things that have occurred in the past with Sen. Sinema, and this has kind of been the breaking point."

Democrats vow the fight to solidify voting rights in the country is not over, but that fight will now continue for some with a focus on replacing Sinema.

"Millions of Democrats and pro-democracy independents are furious with Sinema," one fundraising group wrote in a post after Wednesday's vote. "Give them a chance to do something with that anger that can help turn the tide. This fight is not over. But together we will ensure that Kyrsten Sinema's career in elected office ended tonight."


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/sen-kyrsten-sinema-formally-censured-by-arizona-democratic-party/ar-AAT1mo3?ocid=mailsignout&li=BBnb7Kz
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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #916 on: January 23, 2022, 08:57:18 am »
Business Insider
Clarence Thomas' wife spoke at a conservative conference featuring the founder of the Oath Keepers, a far-right militia group involved in the Capitol riot
salarshani@businessinsider.com (Sarah Al-Arshani) - 1h ago


Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas' wife has ties to right-wing groups, the New Yorker reported.

The founder of the Oath Keepers was featured in an event where Virginia Thomas co-hosted a banquet.
Earlier this month, Stewart Rhodes was charged with sedition in connection to the Capitol riot.

In a story published Friday, Jane Mayer detailed Virginia "Ginni" Thomas' ties to conservative groups.

Among her connections is Stewart Rhodes, who founded the extremist militia group in 2009. Prosecutors previously said the Oath Keepers planned out attacks on the Capitol and held trainings in the weeks before January 6, 2021.

Thomas, a conservative activist and attorney, co-hosted a Remember the Ladies Banquet at the 2010 Liberty XPO & Symposium, which has been described as the "largest conservative training event in history," alongside Moms for America president Kimberly Fletcher.

The symposium also featured Rhodes, who earlier this month was arrested and charged with seditious conspiracy in connection to the Capitol riot. His arrest and charges marked the first time federal prosecutors brought sedition charges against anyone in the investigation into the Capitol siege. He has pleaded not guilty.

Rhodes is just one of many connections Thomas has to right-wing extremists and the January 6 insurrection, Mayer reported.

Fletcher, for instance, who co-hosted the banquet with Thomas, gave two speeches the day before the riot in which she spread the false claim that the 2020 election had been stolen from former President Donald Trump.

The New Yorker report on Thomas' connections to right-wing groups and those involved in the Capitol riot comes on the heels of the Supreme Court denying Trump's request to block the January 6 house select committee from obtaining presidential records for their investigation.

Thomas' husband, Justice Clarence Thomas, issued the lone dissenting vote. According to the New Yorker, Thomas is also involved with parties whose cases are presented before her husband in the Supreme Court.

Bruce Green, a professor at Fordham specializing in legal ethics, told Mayer that the appearance of Thomas's political activism has an impact on the perception of justice and is "awful."

"They look like a mom-and-pop political-hack group, where she does the political stuff and he does the judging," Green said.

Insider has reached out to Thomas, the Supreme Court, Fletcher, and an attorney for Rhodes for comment.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/clarence-thomas-wife-spoke-at-a-conservative-conference-featuring-the-founder-of-the-oath-keepers-a-far-right-militia-group-involved-in-the-capitol-riot/ar-AAT36Ci?li=BBnb7Kz
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  • The Gok Wan of RAWK. Tripespotting Advocate. Oakley style guru. Hardman St. arl arse, "Ridiculously cool" -Atko- Impending U.S. Civil War Ostrich. Too old to suffer wankers and WUMs on here.
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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #917 on: January 23, 2022, 09:15:44 am »
Good luck making sense out of Constitutional procedure.

CNN
The epic filibuster standoff that created the 60-vote Senate
By Zachary B. Wolf, CNN - 4h ago


The epic filibuster standoff that created the 60-vote Senate
Democrats failed spectacularly this week to change filibuster rules in the Senate.

The end results are twofold:

The total collapse of Democrats' effort to enact a national voting rights standard.
The 60-vote threshold to overcome the filibuster and pass legislation in the Senate seems as immovable as ever.
But the 60-vote threshold is relatively new. It was established after an epic fight in the 1970s, an era that today seems like something from an alternate universe:

Southern senators were Democrats.
A Republican President worked with a Democratic Senate.
Legislation was routinely passed with help from both parties.
And it took 67 votes to break a filibuster.

Democrat vs. Democrat
In the 1970s, it was a Southern Democrat, Sen. James Allen of Alabama, who was recognized as the undisputed master of the filibuster and all other delaying tactics.

"By this time the Southern segregationists had lost the major battles over civil rights, but Allen still stood for a small reactionary bloc that continued to fight rearguard actions against almost all social justice legislation," wrote former Sen. Walter Mondale of Minnesota in his 2010 memoir, "The Good Fight: A Life in Liberal Politics."

"I felt the filibuster was allowing an embittered minority to hold the country back from correcting long-standing injustices," Mondale wrote.

Time to change
Mondale, like many senators, respected the idea that the Senate, which represents states rather than voters, should not be ruled by a simple majority. Filibusters had helped progressives like him to "kill ill-considered antibusing legislation when the country was in a panicky backlash against school integration," he wrote.

But the chamber, then as now, was becoming paralyzed.

Mondale had tried multiple times to lead efforts to scale back the 67-vote Senate, in 1969 and 1971.

A long way from two-thirds to three-fifths
By 1975, the vast majority of senators were ready for a change, even if they weren't ready for the simple majority rule most Democrats are pushing for today.

Whittling down from 67 votes to 60 votes to limit debate -- that is, from two-thirds of those present in the 100-member Senate to three-fifths -- seemed like a reasonable step in the right direction.

Working with Sen. James Pearson, a progressive Republican from Kansas, Mondale hatched a plan to outmaneuver Allen and change the Senate forever.

Filibustering the hard way
Unlike today, when senators simply ask for a 60-vote threshold, back then it required parliamentary know-how and the stamina to stand on the Senate floor for days.

This may sound pedantic and boring, but in Mondale's telling, the effort to outwit Allen is riveting and engaging, lasting more than a month and featuring outbursts, exhausting sessions and the very real possibility of failure.

When lawmakers like President Joe Biden, who was in the Senate watching this 1975 episode, talk about returning to a "talking filibuster," this is what they mean.

Cherry glucose and stamina
Another person who had a front-row seat to the 1975 Senate filibuster change is Robert Barnett, who in the subsequent 47 years became a Washington superlawyer -- he has represented everyone from Barack Obama and George W. Bush to Mitch McConnell and John Lewis.

In 1975, he was a top aide to Mondale and next to his boss for much of this drama.

"I vividly remember sitting there next to Senator Mondale in the staff chair and Jim Allen was sucking tubes of glucose to keep his energy going during the course of his long standing talk," Barnett said in a recent Zoom interview from his office.

Barnett said it was not clear how Republican Vice President Nelson Rockefeller would rule on points of order -- though he ultimately sided with the reformers, allowing the movement to go forward.

"It was a tense, tense time, very suspenseful and fraught with heart and strong feelings," Barnett said.

Study the rules
Allen was the mastermind of "reviving the filibuster," according to his New York Times obituary. He would use an encyclopedic knowledge of Senate rules to "tie up the Senate for days and to wring concessions from his opponents," according to the Times.

Allen's reputation was universal, according to numerous documents and news clippings shared with CNN by Daniel Holt, assistant historian in the Senate Historical Office. Holt also noted the accounts in Mondale's memoir that form a basis for this story.

Courtly and polite, Allen was liked by his colleagues even as they feared his ability to stop things up on the Senate floor.

While most senators spend as little time as possible on the floor, Allen relished it, volunteering to preside over the chamber and frequently winning the Senate's "golden gavel" award for hours logged.

Allen's former aide Tom Coker is still working in Alabama politics, and said in a recent phone interview that Allen learned parliamentary procedure during time spent in Alabama's state government, which also features a filibuster.

"He spent a great deal of time every week reading the Senate rule book. He read it so many times I thought he would wear the pages out," Coker said.

'Whose ox is being gored?'
Coker said Allen viewed slowing things down as a duty.

"If these things are so important, they ought to be able to withstand debate," Coker said of Allen's rationale.

In a January 1975 profile in Nation's Business Magazine -- just before the threshold to break a filibuster was whittled to 60 votes -- Allen explained his political outlook.

"It depends on whose ox is being gored," Allen said of senators who had previously engaged in filibusters and were now complaining about his actions. "They are all against it until it comes time to use it themselves."

The most chaotic day
In one tense moment during the 1975 filibuster debate, then-Senate Majority Leader Mike Mansfield, the Montana Democrat, argued, along with Allen, that the Senate rules carried from session to session rather than requiring a new vote every other year. Vice President Rockefeller, a Republican, in a shocking and unexpected move, sided with the filibuster foes that rules could be changed by simple majority.

Mondale describes roars erupting from the likes of Allen.

It was the most "chaotic" day of Mondale's Senate career and it featured votes on matters that, to the uninitiated, seem like complete silliness.

Senators, per Mondale, actually voted on this gobbledygook:

"... a motion to table a motion to reconsider a vote to table an appeal of a ruling that point of order was not in order against a motion to table another point of order against a motion to bring to a vote the motion to call up the resolution."

The rise of the Allen filibuster
The concept of unlimited debate in the Senate has been a matter of debate for hundreds of years. One notable echo of the current fight over voting rights: a filibuster in 1890 killed a federal voting bill that would have policed polling stations in Southern states.

It was not until 1917, when most senators wanted to cut off debate and allow the country to join the fight against German aggression, that the concept of "cloture" was created by the Senate's Rule 22. It required two-thirds of senators present -- 67, if no senators are absent -- to end debate. With it, the country moved toward World War I.

But there were never more than a handful of cloture motions per two-year Congress. That is until 1971-1972, when the number of cloture votes more than tripled to 20. And then in the 1973-1974 Congress there were 31.

Those figures seem quaint today, when there have been 158 such cloture votes in about a year.

But back then, the 31 cloture votes in two years were frustrating everybody and things were grinding to a halt. In behavior that mimics the system today, the threat of a filibuster by Allen could get the Senate leadership to back down, Mondale wrote.

A compromise hatched
The Senate turned hard against Allen in 1975 as his filibuster of the effort to whittle away at the filibuster carried on.

Opinion was shifting toward reform and Senate Majority Leader Mansfield and his deputy Sen. Robert Byrd of West Virginia feared Mondale and his Republican counterpart Pearson, armed with friendly rulings from Rockefeller, would go too far.

Mondale describes being called into Mansfield's office and offered a compromise by Mansfield and Byrd, who wanted to regain control of the chamber.

"They could see the tide turning toward reform, and they were looking into the abyss -- a move for cloture by simple majority," Mondale wrote. "But they were also sick and tired of Jim Allen and the way he had hijacked the Senate and caused so much frustration."

Mansfield and Byrd tweaked the reform proposal from three-fifths of senators present, which could mean anywhere from 54 to 60 senators, to three-fifths of all senators, 60 votes at all times, to limit debate.

But they insisted on something else: Two-thirds of senators would have to agree on future rules changes. Mondale and Pearson accepted.

Only 56 senators voted for the 60-vote Senate
Here's one major difference between 1975 and today.

Back then, 69 senators voted to end debate and break the filibuster on Mondale and Pearson's reform plan. But it passed with fewer, just 56 votes to 27.

There was an acknowledged difference between debating an issue and approving it.

Today, voting to end debate on an issue and allowing it to get a vote is like endorsing it.

The way around Senate rules
That requirement for 67 votes to change Senate rules still stands, but both Democrats (in 2013) and Republicans (in 2017) have gotten around it by relying on the ruling of the presiding officer to change the way the Senate handles nominations.

If and when senators finally do end the 60-vote threshold to overcome the filibuster and move toward majority rule, it seems likely to be done in this way, by a simple majority and a friendly presiding officer.

'This is over'
By the end of the 1975 debate, Mondale describes an encounter in the Democratic cloak room with Mansfield and Allen, who was asking for tweaks to the compromise.

"Allen looked like a broken man," Mondale wrote. "He was on the verge of physical collapse and his face was ashen."

A few days later, Mondale wrote, Allen tried to delay the final vote on the new rules and was unable to find any other senator to second his delaying tactics. Over the course of 20 minutes, Allen tried 18 times to find a second, but with no success, according to Mondale. "That was the Senate saying to Jim Allen, 'No, this is over.'"

All was not over for Allen
Allen adapted to the new rules and took up delaying legislation he didn't like.

Among his final acts in the Senate before he died was a filibuster, ultimately unsuccessful, of the decision to give the Panama Canal to Panama.

"He was not under the illusion that he was going to win the vote. He was just hoping to change some public opinion," Coker said.

'A politician of his time'
Allen was a segregationist when he served as Alabama lieutenant governor and, for most of his career, was a close ally of George Wallace, the state's longtime governor.

Allen died of a heart attack in 1978. Unlike Wallace, who sought forgiveness late in life for his support of segregation, Allen did not undergo such an evolution on civil rights during his lifetime.

But Coker argued Allen had worked with the Black community in Alabama and with Jimmy Carter.

"He was he was a politician of his time," Coker said. "But he also had a good heart."

Coker argued that Allen was realistic about what he could accomplish by slowing things down in the Senate.

A crowning achievement
Mondale, although he went on to become vice president under President Carter, viewed changing the filibuster as one of the major accomplishments of his career.

"Without diluting the Senate's tradition as a deliberative body, our reforms broke the hold of a reactionary minority," Mondale wrote.

In the years between 1975 and his 2010 memoir, as the Senate again ground to a halt, Mondale endorsed more reform. Back then, it was Democrats teaming with Republicans to square off against Democrats and Republicans. Today, after 47 years of the 60-vote Senate, the party line rules.

"It sounds now like a long time ago and small potatoes but it was a big deal because it fundamentally altered the way that the Senate would do business," Barnett said, arguing "it was remarkable, even then, to build a bipartisan coalition to do something that wasn't run by the leadership."

The filibuster was just getting started
Now, a senator simply says he or she wants to require 60 votes and gets it. Democrats and Republicans see little political upside in working across party lines -- with some important exceptions, like criminal justice reform during the Trump presidency, and early coronavirus relief bills and the infrastructure package passed under Biden.

"The bottom line is that in a significantly less partisan Senate, lawmakers from both majority and minority party had incentives to make the Senate work better," Brookings Institution scholar Sarah Binder wrote in an email. "That's harder (though not impossible) to see happening in today's Senate."

The examples of bipartisanship are the exception to the rule.

A partisan tool
The history of the Senate is marked by politicians in the minority using the rule book to slow down or kill things they didn't like.

As the rules were changed, the defenders of minority opinions got creative.

"The broad arc of history points towards the degradation of the filibuster over time," the University of Chicago political scientist William Howell said in an interview, noting the power to block things has been changed at key points in the 1800s, during World War I and then in 1975.

Still, the filibuster is used now more than ever as parties have grown more polarized.

"The kind of norms that govern when it's appropriate to use a filibuster have changed dramatically," he said.

How would Allen view today's filibuster?
Coker, who worked with Allen during his entire Senate career, weighed in on what his former boss would think of today's filibuster.

"I think that he would view it as a lazy man's filibuster," Coker said. "If he was going to filibuster something -- he truly believed that, that there was a side of the story that was not reaching the people and he would want to be on the floor, making those points."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/the-epic-filibuster-standoff-that-created-the-60-vote-senate/ar-AAT2Vsc?ocid=msedgntp
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Offline John C

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #918 on: January 23, 2022, 12:23:54 pm »
Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas' wife has ties to right-wing groups, the New Yorker reported.
As usual (or is that unfair?) the news from the US is grim. But that is fucking disturbing.

Offline jambutty

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Re: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #919 on: January 24, 2022, 03:56:25 am »
The Guardian
Where egos dare: Manchin and Sinema show how Senate spotlight corrupts
Opinion by Robert Reich - 21h ago


What can possibly explain Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema’s decision to sink voting rights protections? Why did they create a false narrative that the legislation had to be “bipartisan” when everyone, themselves included, knew bipartisanship was impossible?

Why did they say they couldn’t support changing Senate filibuster rules when only last month they voted for an exception to the filibuster that allowed debt ceiling legislation to pass with only Democratic votes?

Why did they co-sponsor voting rights legislation and then vote to kill the very same legislation? Why did Manchin vote for the “talking filibuster” in 2011 yet vote against it now?

Part of the answer to all these questions can be found in the giant wads of corporate cash flowing into their campaign coffers.

But if you want the whole answer, you need also to look at the single biggest factor affecting almost all national politicians I’ve dealt with: ego. Manchin’s and Sinema’s are now among the biggest.

Before February of last year, almost no one outside West Virginia had heard of Manchin and almost no one outside Arizona (and probably few within it) had ever heard of Sinema.

Now, they’re notorious. They’re Washington celebrities. Their photos grace every major news outlet in America.

I’m not talking simply about power, although that’s certainly part of it. I’m talking about narcissism

This sort of attention is addictive. Once it seeps into the bloodstream, it becomes an all-consuming force. I’ve known politicians who have become permanently and irrevocably intoxicated.

I’m not talking simply about power, although that’s certainly part of it. I’m talking about narcissism – the primal force driving so much of modern America but whose essence is concentrated in certain places such as Wall Street, Hollywood and the United States Senate.

Once addicted, the pathologically narcissistic politician can become petty in the extreme, taking every slight as a deep personal insult.

I’m told Manchin asked Joe Biden’s staff not to blame him for the delay of Build Back Better and was then infuriated when Biden suggested Manchin bore some of the responsibility. I’m also told that if Biden wants to restart negotiations with Manchin on Build Back Better, he’s got to rename it because Manchin is so angry he won’t vote for anything going by that name.

The Senate is not the world’s greatest deliberative body but it is the world’s greatest stew of egos battling for attention. Every senator believes he or she has what it takes to be president. Most believe they’re far more competent than whoever occupies the Oval Office.

Yet out of 100 senators, only a handful are chosen for interviews on the Sunday talk shows and very few get a realistic shot at the presidency. The result is intense competition for attention.

Again and again, I’ve watched worthy legislation sink because particular senators didn’t feel they were getting enough credit, or enough personal attention from a president, or insufficient press attention, or unwanted press attention, or that another senator (sometimes from the same party) was getting too much attention.

Several people on the Hill who have watched Sinema at close range since she became a senator tell me she relished all the attention she got when she gave her very theatrical thumbs down to increasing the minimum wage, and since then has thrilled at her national celebrity as a spoiler.

Biden prides himself on having been a member of the senatorial “club” for many years before ascending to the presidency and argued during the 2020 campaign that this familiarity would give him an advantage in dealing with his former colleagues. But it may be working against him. Senators don’t want clubby familiarity from a president. They want a president to shine the national spotlight on them.

Some senators get so whacky in the national spotlight that they can’t function without it. Trump had that effect on Republicans. Before Trump, Lindsey Graham was almost a normal human being. Then Trump directed a huge amp of national attention Graham’s way, transmogrifying the senator into a bizarro creature who’d say anything Trump wanted to keep the attention coming.

Not all senators are egomaniacs, of course. Most lie on an ego spectrum ranging from mildly inflated to pathological.

Manchin and Sinema are near the extreme. Once they got a taste of the national spotlight, they couldn’t let go. They must have figured that the only way they could keep the spotlight focused on themselves was by threatening to do what they finally did last week: shafting American democracy.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/where-egos-dare-manchin-and-sinema-show-how-senate-spotlight-corrupts/ar-AAT3hm6?ocid=msedgntp

What is not mentioned in the article is that both senators are the first and probably the last Democrats to hold those seats in those Red states and that although Bernie has suggested primarying both, will remain Red states with or without them in office.
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