Author Topic: Liverpool's Midfield  (Read 1807762 times)

Offline wige

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17360 on: January 5, 2022, 10:11:38 pm »
This isn't the transfer thread so not going to get bogged down into who we should get though I think it's reasonable to state that Bundesliga production should definitely be questioned based on recent transfers and CL performances.  It seems clear that Bundesliga stats aren't going to translate to the PL on a 1 to 1 level.

The more interesting question and probably pertinent question is with Elliot returning relatively soon is will we see a return of the Trent, Salah, Elliot triangle and what does that then mean for the rest of the midfield?  Lets not forgot that prior to his injury Elliot was seemingly first choice for this new midfield role that Klopp and his staff had created based on the change in positioning for Salah and Trent.  If you have Harvey taking one spot and Fabinho the other then the availability of certain midfielders and where they fit is completely different than the discussions being had now.  That's what I think will come to the forefront in the second half of the season, at least assuming Elliot is 100% fit.  If it does then the conversation about what will happen this summer is completely different than what people are thinking and posting now.

Wasn't Thiago not quite match fit at the start of the season? Personally I think Elliott got given a chance based on pre-season and training and just totally snatched it up. I think we were always likely to have seen him slowly get fewer minutes and I'm convinced our best midfield lineup is Fab, Thiago and Henderson, which is probably where Klopp was headed. Its the best balanced three I think. Gives us the solidity, steel, creativity, press resistance and then Hendersons direct/chaoti passing is a real weapon.

It's that balanced all rounder that I think we need to add. Not seen enough of Bellingham to know if that's him.

Offline Dave McCoy

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17361 on: January 5, 2022, 10:19:43 pm »
Wasn't Thiago not quite match fit at the start of the season? Personally I think Elliott got given a chance based on pre-season and training and just totally snatched it up. I think we were always likely to have seen him slowly get fewer minutes and I'm convinced our best midfield lineup is Fab, Thiago and Henderson, which is probably where Klopp was headed. Its the best balanced three I think. Gives us the solidity, steel, creativity, press resistance and then Hendersons direct/chaoti passing is a real weapon.

It's that balanced all rounder that I think we need to add. Not seen enough of Bellingham to know if that's him.

And yet the Leeds game where Elliott got injured was a midfield 3 of Fabinho, Thiago and Elliott with Hendo on the bench.  I wouldn't make any assumptions and this is coming from someone that thought Elliott couldn't possibly be a midfielder to begin with.

Offline Mr Dilkington

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17362 on: January 5, 2022, 10:29:24 pm »
This isn't the transfer thread so not going to get bogged down into who we should get though I think it's reasonable to state that Bundesliga production should definitely be questioned based on recent transfers and CL performances.  It seems clear that Bundesliga stats aren't going to translate to the PL on a 1 to 1 level.

The more interesting question and probably pertinent question is with Elliot returning relatively soon is will we see a return of the Trent, Salah, Elliot triangle and what does that then mean for the rest of the midfield?  Lets not forgot that prior to his injury Elliot was seemingly first choice for this new midfield role that Klopp and his staff had created based on the change in positioning for Salah and Trent.  If you have Harvey taking one spot and Fabinho the other then the availability of certain midfielders and where they fit is completely different than the discussions being had now.  That's what I think will come to the forefront in the second half of the season, at least assuming Elliot is 100% fit.  If it does then the conversation about what will happen this summer is completely different than what people are thinking and posting now.
Said similar yesterday. I think most people just assumed that Elliott's inclusion early in the season was because Thiago and Henderson were late arriving back from the Euros (even though neither started games for their respective nations), but I think Klopp decided during pre-season that Elliott would be perfect for that right sided eight position which given Trent's shift in role required a very specific set of skills. As such, I would not be at all surprised to see Elliott just pick up where he left off (once up to speed) and just become our best option in that right sided eight position.

It was a small sample but the underlying numbers he was putting up were pretty crazy for an 18 year old. Take the Burnley game for example, he and Trent led the team in progressive passes - 10 each, but Elliott also put up 10 progressive carries to Trent's 6. So Elliott made 20 progressive actions in the game, Trent 16, next best was Naby who made 13 (tbf he was taken off on 80). Not only that, in terms of pressures, Elliott led the team with a frankly ridiculous 27, next best were Trent and Jota at 16 each. 27 pressures is like 99th percentile for midfielders, so is the 10 progressive carries and 10 progressive passes though..

Although it's just one game, the patterns were similar in other games. For example against Chelsea, he again led the team in pressures with 20 (next best was 14) and was second only to Trent for progressive passes and carries (21 to 23). That really isn't normal for an 18 year old who had never really played as an eight before.

Think it's fairly clear that Klopp sees him as a Gotze level talent (hopefully with fewer injury issues) and our midfield is likely to be built around him for the foreseeable future.
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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17363 on: January 5, 2022, 10:38:28 pm »
In hindsight it looks like Elliott was always planned for a big role from the start of preseason. He was pretty much always starting with Salah and the stronger sides even when we had other options (minamino, Jones, ox). Not going to, but would be interesting to see if his role was the same through out in a rematch of those games

Offline redk84

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17364 on: January 6, 2022, 09:33:16 am »
Elliott is a talent...but has still got some ways to go

Definitely an option against teams that sit-back against us at Anfield for starters then see how he progresses
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Offline MonsLibpool

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17365 on: January 6, 2022, 09:42:27 am »
Elliott is a talent...but has still got some ways to go

Definitely an option against teams that sit-back against us at Anfield for starters then see how he progresses
He's a very talented boy that's plays like he's 10 years older. Very high football IQ.

He's lacking a bit physically which is expected at his age but his game will further improve as he gains more strength on the ball.

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17366 on: January 6, 2022, 09:47:43 am »
Elliot will be in our starting midfield when he's up to speed.

His injury really fucked us over!

Offline xbugawugax

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17367 on: January 6, 2022, 11:05:10 am »
think it was a midfield experiment cut short due to the neanderthals at burnley. No thanks to the officiating as well. He was being targeted and the officials did fuck all.

love to see whether the experiment will pick up where it left off in the second half of this season. Might be a stronger midfield if everyone stays fit and maybe we see more of curtis, keita,elliot and ox as an attacking force.

Offline addieli

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17368 on: January 6, 2022, 01:57:21 pm »
I adore football, if you do too check this article out , it is just amazing to read. https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...r-lucrative-chelsea-tie-in-fa-cup-third-round

Offline redk84

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17369 on: January 7, 2022, 11:50:52 am »
Big 2nd half of the season coming up for Jones, Keita and Oxlade-Chamberlain...for different reasons to

Hope between them atleast 2 can be fit enough for selection for any given game
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Offline mrantarctica

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17370 on: January 7, 2022, 05:46:01 pm »
Big 2nd half of the season coming up for Jones, Keita and Oxlade-Chamberlain...for different reasons to

Hope between them atleast 2 can be fit enough for selection for any given game

I think it's a golden opportunity for Curtis to show that he can bring more than what Milner, Ox or Keita bring. If he can, then I think 2 of those senior 3 will probably be heading out, and we'll bring in perhaps one additional midfielder at the end of the season.

Offline mkferdy

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17371 on: January 7, 2022, 06:54:15 pm »
I adore football, if you do too check this article out , it is just amazing to read. https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...r-lucrative-chelsea-tie-in-fa-cup-third-round

What a first post that is 😂

Offline Lubeh

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17372 on: January 7, 2022, 07:55:51 pm »
two really decent player up on frees atm  Kessie  and Zakaria we really should be in for them or atleast one of them, kessie scored a few goals too which we need from midfield, though it is the italianleague...

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17373 on: January 7, 2022, 09:07:41 pm »
How anyone could have watched Kessie in the games against us and think we should be in for him is beyond me. He’s shite.
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Offline mrantarctica

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17374 on: January 8, 2022, 07:13:11 am »
How anyone could have watched Kessie in the games against us and think we should be in for him is beyond me. He’s shite.

to be honest I thought this as well. He looks totally nowhere near the level of player we need. The kind of players we need have to be better than who we already have. At the very least they need to be just as good but more available (e.g. no fitness issues, or younger so plenty of games left at their peak)

Offline MonsLibpool

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17375 on: January 8, 2022, 07:18:08 am »
to be honest I thought this as well. He looks totally nowhere near the level of player we need. The kind of players we need have to be better than who we already have. At the very least they need to be just as good but more available (e.g. no fitness issues, or younger so plenty of games left at their peak)
He had a bad game and was bossed by Thiago Morton but he's better than he looked.

Offline mrantarctica

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17376 on: January 10, 2022, 07:50:28 pm »
He had a bad game and was bossed by Thiago Morton but he's better than he looked.

You're probably right, but not at all convinced by him. Normally the best players look like they have too much time, even when the game is going at a rapid pace. He looks sluggish/slow in a slower league. I think when the game goes at a much higher pace, I'm not sure he can actually shift up a gear. Decent player no doubt, but not any better than what we have in my opinion. Of course, things can change too. Sometimes players look underwhelming at certain clubs and then become world-beaters.

Offline Lubeh

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17377 on: January 10, 2022, 08:26:01 pm »
Kessie scores alot of goals I think he is on 7 so far this season hes more box to box midfielder (Milner/ Hendo type), and we really need some1 from midfield scoring, I am just thinking of free transfers if any1 is worth a shout  even if its a "dofor" ( do for now) , kinda thing, Zakaria is possibly more like Fabihno which we have no cover for ,  from what the papers are saying klopp wants Kieta gone in the summer so we will defo be in for someone.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2022, 08:52:16 pm by Lubeh »

Offline tubby

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17378 on: January 10, 2022, 09:00:43 pm »
From what the papers are saying klopp wants Kieta gone in the summer.

Where have you read this?
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Offline Lubeh

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17379 on: January 10, 2022, 09:43:15 pm »
Where have you read this?
The mirror ,si.com (sports illustrated)
TeamTalk , Liverpool.com and others
« Last Edit: January 10, 2022, 09:47:17 pm by Lubeh »

Offline So… Howard Philips

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17380 on: January 10, 2022, 09:49:57 pm »
The mirror ,si.com (sports illustrated)
TeamTalk , Liverpool.com and others

Links?


Offline Hazell

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17382 on: January 10, 2022, 09:56:38 pm »
I just clicked on the Mirror and SI and one cites 'reports' and the other cites El Nacional. Not exactly cast iron. The less said about Teamtalk the better.
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Offline PatriotScouser

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17384 on: January 10, 2022, 10:04:35 pm »
I personally think we need 2 midfielders - one CDM and one CM.

In a dream world they'd be Tchouameni and Bellingham and I'll use them in the following example but it could be any CM or CDM, take your pick.

I'd have Fab and Tchouameni compete/rotate for that CDM place, for the RCM spot have Hendo and Elliott compete for that spot and for the LCM role have Thiago and Bellingham compete for that place. Then for the 3rd rotational spots I'd have Morton, Ox and Jones. I'd keep Ox because of two reasons. One being the homegrown rule and second being he can play in numerous positions. Milly is leaving and unfortunately as much as I really like Naby, he can't stay fit and in my scenario he'd be off to Dortmund in part exchange for Bellingham!!

Offline Lubeh

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17385 on: January 10, 2022, 11:09:09 pm »
The stories maybe click bait but he only has 18mths left on contract same as Salah so it would not suprise me if they do look to move him on to recoup some of the 53m he cost 30m to Barca would not be so bad :) that a Bellingham leg maybe 2 :P

Offline Suareznumber7

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17386 on: January 10, 2022, 11:15:15 pm »
But who will be the next scapegoat if he leaves?

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17387 on: January 10, 2022, 11:17:00 pm »
But who will be the next scapegoat if he leaves?

Don't ask Allerton Andy or he'll start yet another poll. :o

Offline Lubeh

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17388 on: January 10, 2022, 11:42:26 pm »
if he leaves it will prob be hendo , he aint been blamed in a while ... dont matter what he does he gets the blame

Offline MonsLibpool

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17389 on: January 11, 2022, 07:42:14 am »
On pure talent, Thiago is worth it. But really we should’ve tried to keep Gini or found an alternative robust midfielder who can essentially play anywhere.

I’m not convinced Gini alone would’ve solved the midfield issues against Chelsea. Yes he’d have provided energy and composure on the ball, but Kovacic and Kante were very very good and both Fab and Hendo were very poor.
Poch has been severely criticised for playing him with one journalist stating that his lack of creativity is like playing with ten men. Some even said he's ghosting and that they should sell him to Newcastle.

Let's move on.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2022, 07:44:54 am by MonsLibpool »

Offline xbugawugax

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17390 on: January 11, 2022, 09:00:59 am »
is it possible that we have a coutinho v2 situation where we move on a couple of our players for a big name signing?   its been a couple of years since the alisson and vvd signing. Time for a bit of a midfield or squad refresh i guess.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17392 on: January 12, 2022, 08:36:44 pm »
is it possible that we have a coutinho v2 situation where we move on a couple of our players for a big name signing?   its been a couple of years since the alisson and vvd signing. Time for a bit of a midfield or squad refresh i guess.

I dont see anyone overpaying for any player we would bear with losing. Other than Trent and Salah who else would fetch any sort of massive sum?

Offline Circa1892

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17393 on: January 13, 2022, 09:47:19 pm »
Unless we’re going to splash the cash we really need Elliott back soon and no adverse reactions to the injury. Such a pedestrian bunch

Offline Coolie High

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17394 on: January 13, 2022, 09:47:47 pm »
Keita is most certainly not the problem here.

Offline DelTrotter

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17395 on: January 13, 2022, 09:49:43 pm »
Our CL hopes are totally dependent on Thiago staying fit. Hopefully he can manage it, we'll get top 4 regardless but we need 7 big games from him in the CL.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17396 on: January 13, 2022, 09:49:52 pm »
Continues to be an issue. There’s something very wrong with the way they respond to coming up against a parked bus. There’s no presence. The midfield dissipates. Everything goes down the flanks because our midfielders aren’t comfortable playing through the middle. Henderson in particular persists with overlapping runs down the wing.

Klopp’s tried to add creativity. Unfortunately they’ve all been made of glass. Thiago has shown some promise when available. Oxlade-Chamberlain has probably had his time. Keita hasn’t worked.

Needs a major revamp in the summer.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17397 on: January 13, 2022, 09:50:17 pm »
Have only beat Shrewesbury since Thiago got covid/injured.
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Offline Asam

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17398 on: January 13, 2022, 09:50:34 pm »
Unless we’re going to splash the cash we really need Elliott back soon and no adverse reactions to the injury. Such a pedestrian bunch

Spoiler alert; we’re not splashing the cash any time soon

Hopefully Elliott/Keita and Jones can add some urgency and guile to our play

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #17399 on: January 13, 2022, 09:53:44 pm »
Midfield was poor, full-backs were poor, but there was nothing from the front three. No movement, no penetration, no pace.

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