Author Topic: The NFL Thread  (Read 2748091 times)

Offline Gods_Left_Boot

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62080 on: November 30, 2021, 03:59:11 pm »
Agreed on all of that, unfortunately. They are in need of a serious rebuild, some restructuring and it will likely be a rocky road. I could see them taking 4 years+ to get back on their feet.

Who would want Wilson? I ask that because I don't know enough about the sport to fully understand scheme fits and who's doing what with their cap space. It seems that The Dolphins and maybe the Browns might be interested, given Tua hasn't taken off as expected and Mayfield feels like he's nowhere near the player he thinks he is.

Dolphins andEagles (who have extra first round picks) would be the obvious candidates.Maybe the Raiders and Browns if Carr or Baker leave at the end of the season.
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Offline Drinks Sangria

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62081 on: November 30, 2021, 03:59:44 pm »
Think the Dolphins still have there hearts set on Deshaun Watson but are waiting for his legal issues to be cleared before making the move for him, could the Steelers trade for Wilson, not sure the Steelers cap space is, & i think Ben is done as QB.
Ben looks likely to topple at any moment, is he the most immobile QB in the league? He's certainly the least mobile I've ever seen in my short years watching the game.
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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62082 on: November 30, 2021, 04:08:44 pm »
Dolphins andEagles (who have extra first round picks) would be the obvious candidates.Maybe the Raiders and Browns if Carr or Baker leave at the end of the season.

Do you think the Eagles will move on from a 3rd year pick to an older, more expensive option who may or may not be injured/past his best? I get that he's a lot better, but so much so that you're expecting to compete for the division just by adding him?

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Offline newterp

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62083 on: November 30, 2021, 04:41:12 pm »
redskins screwing themselves again with this winning streak. now will get a mid-first rounder who will do nothing.

Offline Jookie

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62084 on: November 30, 2021, 06:54:25 pm »
Do you think the Eagles will move on from a 3rd year pick to an older, more expensive option who may or may not be injured/past his best? I get that he's a lot better, but so much so that you're expecting to compete for the division just by adding him?



I think the jury is out on Hurts. I quite like him but there’s definitely doubts about him as a long term answer at QB. I just think there is potential there.

Could understand if Eagles wanted to trade for a Rodgers, Wilson, Watson or even Garoppolo next off season. Probably depends on how next 6 weeks go. Before Giants game Hurts was playing quite well. Giants game he didn’t play well.

Remember the Eagles will also have a chance to draft a QB in the 1st round. Currently projected to have 9th and 10th pick overall. That might improve if Hurts falters in remaining games
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Offline rodderzzz

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62085 on: December 1, 2021, 12:17:53 am »
There doesn't seem to be a lot of offensive talent at the top of the order this year coming out of college. definitely a year to get better defensively out of the draft

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62086 on: December 1, 2021, 12:23:27 am »
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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62087 on: December 3, 2021, 10:38:47 am »
There doesn't seem to be a lot of offensive talent at the top of the order this year coming out of college. definitely a year to get better defensively out of the draft
Seems to be a good wide receiver class again. How long until wide receiver goes the way of running back and people stop thinking of it as being a premium position? 

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62088 on: December 3, 2021, 11:19:10 am »
Anyone tempted to watch that new Kurt Warner bio movie when it's released in a few weeks?
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Offline Jookie

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62089 on: December 3, 2021, 11:51:00 am »
Seems to be a good wide receiver class again. How long until wide receiver goes the way of running back and people stop thinking of it as being a premium position? 

I’d say WR is arguably the 5th most important position on a team at best. QB, left tackle, pass rusher (edge or inside) cornerback feel more important positions to fill. That’s the way I’d draft in the 1st round if all positions were in need of an upgrade.

I think it’s arguable whether safety, tight end and wide receiver are next. Probably depend a bit on systems after the top 4/5 positions. Feel like LB is currently the defensive version of RB. Previously hailed position that is a tad under rated in recent years.
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Offline FlashGordon

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62090 on: December 3, 2021, 01:19:24 pm »
I’d say WR is arguably the 5th most important position on a team at best. QB, left tackle, pass rusher (edge or inside) cornerback feel more important positions to fill. That’s the way I’d draft in the 1st round if all positions were in need of an upgrade.

I think it’s arguable whether safety, tight end and wide receiver are next. Probably depend a bit on systems after the top 4/5 positions. Feel like LB is currently the defensive version of RB. Previously hailed position that is a tad under rated in recent years.

After the obvious positions isn't the most important position to draft really fluid anyway depending on the need of the team/scheme?
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Offline Jookie

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62091 on: December 3, 2021, 03:06:42 pm »
After the obvious positions isn't the most important position to draft really fluid anyway depending on the need of the team/scheme?

Completely agree.

You draft based on needs.

I suppose I was saying that I’d view WR as a lesser position than some others if every position was weak or you had a blank roster.

In that situation there’s no scenario or scheme were WR is more important than QB, LT or edge or interior pass rushers IMO. They are the premium positions. Personally I think good corners essential too. More so than WRs
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Offline Linudden

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62092 on: December 3, 2021, 03:21:55 pm »
I'd take prime Jerry Rice over any corner ever, period. It's more important to be able to create deep plays and force the opposition to defend deep to make for easy checkdowns. It's a mare to play against Green Bay and Kansas City because Adams and Hill will beat any high-coverage corners around which forces teams to really adapt and open up a different playbook. Hill's presence and the resulting availability of short yardage is part of why Travis Kelce became such a monster at TE.

The best example is probably Philadelphia where DeVonta Smith's 14 yards per reception average makes Hurts look a lot better than he is. The problem for Smith is that he doesn't have an elite QB throwing to him. Then you can also add how Cincinnati just exploded as a team once Ja'Marr Chase came into the side and gave a top QB prospect a proper target. If people are calling for Mac Jones to become offensive rookie of the year they must be a little nuts looking as Chase's numbers.
« Last Edit: December 3, 2021, 03:26:53 pm by Linudden »
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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62093 on: December 3, 2021, 05:27:03 pm »
some would say that you never draft on need, you take the best player available.

in reality that'd be a daft way to build a roster.

Offline Statto Red

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62094 on: December 3, 2021, 07:04:41 pm »
some would say that you never draft on need, you take the best player available.

in reality that'd be a daft way to build a roster.


It's a tricky one, if you can get someone who is seasoned pro & proven in the position & get a few more years from him, then go for him instead of someone in the draft who is unproven at pro level, but depends on talent too & position in the draft, the Pats are prime example of teams who tend to use reliable free agency players more than draft picks, & it's worked for them most of the time.
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Offline Rob K

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62095 on: December 4, 2021, 08:00:36 am »
Giants would probably be in a better position right now if we'd picked Eli's successor in 2018 instead of Barkley (Josh Allen went 4 picks later). Or even if our O-line had Quenton Nelson in it.

I think Saquon is great, but we've gone 5-11, 4-12 and 6-10 since that draft.

Always easier to look back in hindsight though.
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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62096 on: December 4, 2021, 09:47:31 am »
Giants would probably be in a better position right now if we'd picked Eli's successor in 2018 instead of Barkley (Josh Allen went 4 picks later). Or even if our O-line had Quenton Nelson in it.

I think Saquon is great, but we've gone 5-11, 4-12 and 6-10 since that draft.

Always easier to look back in hindsight though.

it's not hindsight with barkley. at the time I saw someone say that in 15 years barkley could be getting fitted for a gold jacket and it'd still have been the wrong pick at #2 overall.

Offline Linudden

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62097 on: December 4, 2021, 10:06:19 am »
It's out of touch in today's pass-heavy game to select a running back that early. The only time that can pay off is if you get Derrick Henry, but those chances are slim to nil. If you don't have a decent blindside tackle your QB is most likely going to lay at the bottom of a sack with an ACL or the shin bone pointed in the wrong direction sooner rather than later unless he's basically Houdini and escapes anything.
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Offline Rob K

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62098 on: December 4, 2021, 10:07:25 am »
it's not hindsight with barkley. at the time I saw someone say that in 15 years barkley could be getting fitted for a gold jacket and it'd still have been the wrong pick at #2 overall.

yeah true.

i look at that draft and got to think picking Nelson then Chubb would seen us better than going Barkley then Hernandez in rounds 1 and 2, if they didn't want a QB. O-line has been a big problem for us for years so picking Nelson would have been huge.


also, i think we picked sterling sheppard 3 or 4 picks before Michael thomas went in the draft a year or two before. It's stuff like that when looking back that is really annoying :D
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Offline Linudden

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62099 on: December 4, 2021, 10:12:11 am »
Can teams franchise tag players forever? Some players I feel rather sorry for considering which organizations that drafted them. Whoever goes #1 overall to the Lions next spring is basically screwed after all.
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Offline Rob K

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62100 on: December 4, 2021, 10:19:49 am »
It's out of touch in today's pass-heavy game to select a running back that early. The only time that can pay off is if you get Derrick Henry, but those chances are slim to nil. If you don't have a decent blindside tackle your QB is most likely going to lay at the bottom of a sack with an ACL or the shin bone pointed in the wrong direction sooner rather than later unless he's basically Houdini and escapes anything.



It's a miracle Eli played as many games as he did with the standard of "protection" he had in front of him at times.
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Offline TipTopKop

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62101 on: December 4, 2021, 09:58:31 pm »
According to ESPN sources, Big Ben is playing his last season.

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62102 on: December 5, 2021, 01:01:17 am »
According to ESPN sources, Big Ben is playing his last season.

he did that about 2 years ago.

Offline TipTopKop

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62103 on: December 5, 2021, 03:33:11 am »
No apparently they're saying he's been telling players this is his last season (are you saying he said the same thing 2 years ago? if so I wasn't aware of that).

I mean to be fair either way, the way things are going they have to prepare (and should have prepared) for such a time.

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62104 on: December 5, 2021, 09:46:24 am »
I think Voodoo means he last played about 2 years ago 😂
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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62105 on: December 5, 2021, 09:53:38 am »
one thing you can say about roethlisberger is that there won't be any steeler fans thinking he went too early and wondering next year if he could still do a job if they're something like 3-7 at any point.

Offline Gods_Left_Boot

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62106 on: December 5, 2021, 11:06:22 am »
Can teams franchise tag players forever? Some players I feel rather sorry for considering which organizations that drafted them. Whoever goes #1 overall to the Lions next spring is basically screwed after all.

It's for 3 years maximum I believe, but I'm quite sure it's never happened. There have been a handful of cases of players being tagged twice though.
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Offline classycarra

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62107 on: December 5, 2021, 12:07:34 pm »
one thing you can say about roethlisberger is that there won't be any steeler fans thinking he went too early and wondering next year if he could still do a job if they're something like 3-7 at any point.

really not sure what the plan is/was for replacing big ben - he was shite last year too, and the rookie class was famously stocked. didn't seem to make moves for any of the big money (potential) movers like stafford or wilson. didn't appear to go for a steady stop gap like bridgewater or fitzgerald. instead they just picked up dwayne haskins from a local strip club. didnt try for a free agent like newton.

like you say, noones calling him up next year wondering if he can do a job. on current evidence, even a poor last year/retired this year philip rivers would have been a better option, if he's not too busy birthing another kid.

Offline Linudden

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62108 on: December 5, 2021, 12:41:30 pm »
It's the correct decision for Ben to retire now rather than trying to prolong the misery.

Thing is that the Steelers aren't aggressive enough in the market and I doubt next year's draft class will be deep enough for them to pick someone up. The issue is that there are a lot fewer good enough QB's than there are teams in desperate need of one. I reckon Russell Wilson will be on the move in the summer, but I can't see the Steelers throwing the kitchen sink to get him even though he's got the potential to be good well into his 40s. Then if Watson is cleared to play next year, I assume Miami and Carolina will be a lot more active in trying to get him.

What does that leave then? Seemingly a massive void and quite possibly Mason Rudolph as a starter. Tomlin clearly needs to be willing to ditch a lot of future picks to get a QB good enough to properly complement the defense. Otherwise he might start looking at HC vacancies at other franchises. As good as he is, even the best coaches need a change of scenery sometimes and I feel that he'd be well-served to try something different after all these years. With all due respect to Big Ben, I feel that Tomlin has never had a truly elite QB in all of his career and I really wonder what he would be able to do at a place where he had one or if he found someone to play in yellow and black if he stays.

In the end, what I do sort of expect to happen is that Shanahan feels the need to get Trey Lance in as a starter at any cost, Garoppolo gets released and Tomlin picks him up in free agency. Basically a clone of Big Ben in the past few years then.
« Last Edit: December 5, 2021, 12:45:58 pm by Linudden »
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Offline TipTopKop

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62109 on: December 5, 2021, 02:37:39 pm »
I think Voodoo means he last played about 2 years ago 😂
Ahhh fair dues yes, that would indeed be true.
really not sure what the plan is/was for replacing big ben - he was shite last year too, and the rookie class was famously stocked. didn't seem to make moves for any of the big money (potential) movers like stafford or wilson. didn't appear to go for a steady stop gap like bridgewater or fitzgerald. instead they just picked up dwayne haskins from a local strip club. didnt try for a free agent like newton.
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Offline classycarra

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62110 on: December 5, 2021, 03:18:04 pm »
Thinking about it, should the Steelers have been trying to capitalise on all the Watson/Dolphins rumours and try to buy Tua low? I know some aren't sold on him yet, but even as a fledgling starter getting over his serious injry he's a million times better than the current lump at QB

Offline Linudden

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62111 on: December 5, 2021, 05:19:29 pm »
I'm not sold on Tagovailoa, could be worth a gamble but he may still improve. What I'm sure of is that Flores and the back office regret they didn't pick Herbert over him now.

They have to do something though. If Jimmy G remains at San Francisco they could be in some real trouble considering the other QB's good enough to elevate Steelers from their current level are tied to their teams on long-term deals. Their best bet in that case is probably just to take a QB in the first round and hope he's ready to do a respectable job immediately. Given the struggles of Lawrence, Wilson and Fields this year and Lance hardly being wheeled out, that might be a tall order.
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Offline FlashGordon

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62112 on: December 5, 2021, 08:53:46 pm »
It's fun watching Detroit find different ways to lose. Unless you're a Lions fan of course.
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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62113 on: December 5, 2021, 09:04:41 pm »
Honestly feel bad for Lions fans might be the most depressing thing in Sports

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62114 on: December 5, 2021, 09:12:37 pm »
LIONS WIN

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62115 on: December 5, 2021, 09:13:27 pm »
Happy for the bastards  ;D

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62116 on: December 5, 2021, 09:14:25 pm »
LIONS fucking win and of course I missed it.
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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62117 on: December 5, 2021, 09:14:37 pm »
it's hard to go winless.

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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62118 on: December 5, 2021, 09:16:31 pm »
Zimmer and the entire defensive staff should be fired. What the hell were they doing for the last play? Allowing the WR to run into the end zone and turn around and catch without anyone getting near him? Allowing Jared Goff to go 80 yards in a minute before that? Unforgivable.
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Re: The NFL Thread
« Reply #62119 on: December 5, 2021, 09:17:13 pm »
it's hard to go winless.

It is but they had been trying their damn hardest all season to do it with finding so many different ways to lose!