Topic: Norwich City

[Gerry Attrick]

What's a serious job? The fans and players can't enjoy this scenario that Norwich are always in?

Back to back 90 odd point seasons in the Championship is a serious job in my eyes. People act like it’s no achievement at all but Norwich aren’t a great football team; nobody was saying how great Teemo Pukki is before Farke got hold of him or Emi Buendia being a 30 odd million pound footballer. If Norwich succumb to pressure it’ll be another grass wasn’t greener outcome, I’m certain of it.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Daniel Storey
@danielstorey85
NEW: Norwich City are in purgatory, too strong for the Championship but too weak for the Premier League. That's not evidence of a broken club, just a broken game.

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/norwich-city-championship-premier-league-relegation-1267112

I do get the sentiment, but it doesn't really stick. You have plenty of teams coming up from the Championship that stay in the Premier League for at least a season - in fact more do than don't. Then you have plenty of Premier League teams that go down and don't come back for years, such as Stoke, Bournemouth, Huddersfield and Cardiff. Many even slip further down the pyramid.

It's also not like this has been going on for long at Norwich. Just a 3-year spell that will likely become 4. It's really not that outrageous. At some point they'll get it wrong and stay in the Championship, or get it right and stay in the Premier League for a while.

[El Lobo]

Back to back 90 odd point seasons in the Championship is a serious job in my eyes. People act like it’s no achievement at all but Norwich aren’t a great football team; nobody was saying how great Teemo Pukki is before Farke got hold of him or Emi Buendia being a 30 odd million pound footballer. If Norwich succumb to pressure it’ll be another grass wasn’t greener outcome, I’m certain of it.

For a start, the whole point is that they weren't back to back seasons. They've sandwiched a dreadful PL season. And you must be able to see how diminished those achievements become if they both end up leading to two of the poorest seasons by any club in PL history? We all know yo-yo clubs are a thing, but they usually make an effort to stay up.

They've got Leeds, Southampton and Wolves at home and Brentford away in their next four games. If they're still winless and rock bottom after those they surely have to get rid and give it some sort of effort to stay in the league.

[Dull Tools]

For a start, the whole point is that they weren't back to back seasons. They've sandwiched a dreadful PL season. And you must be able to see how diminished those achievements become if they both end up leading to two of the poorest seasons by any club in PL history? We all know yo-yo clubs are a thing, but they usually make an effort to stay up.

They've got Leeds, Southampton and Wolves at home and Brentford away in their next four games. If they're still winless and rock bottom after those they surely have to get rid and give it some sort of effort to stay in the league.

And then get relegated anyway and then have less chance of going up again. Who would actually take that job at the moment?

[El Lobo]

And then get relegated anyway and then have less chance of going up again. Who would actually take that job at the moment?

I suspect a lot of people would take the job. There's only twenty PL manager jobs and a lot of them out of reach for some still pretty decent managers. Howe? Wilder? Both similarly good records of getting clubs promoted but far better records of keeping clubs in the PL. You've then obviously got the tired old names like pint of wine, cabbage head and Mrs Doubtfire but even then are any of them going to do any worse than Farke?

I just dont get the mindset. Because he's got them promoted twice is absolutely no guarantee he'd do it again if they get relegated and retain him. I actually don't think its ever been done before in terms of a team going up, down, up, down and up again. After the second relegation I just can't believe that there wouldn't be a drop off. And its completely reliant on the same players doing the business for him again, which seems unlikely considering their age, contract status or just general ability. How long are the likes of Cantwell and Aarons going to be happy being at a club who dont even try to stay in the PL? Two young English players regularly linked with moves to PL clubs. They're hardly going to go into another contract negotiation when the best they can be offered is getting battered most weeks in the PL. Pukki has scored 29 and 26 in his two Championship seasons, is he going to do that again when he's 32? He already looks on the wane, has one non-penalty goal so far this season. How motivated are the new players going to be? Rashica, Sargent and Tzolis essentially signed to do well in the Championship because they don't have any real ambition to stay up...?

Its clearly very hard to stay up and establish a team in the PL but fucking hell....at least try

[ScottishKopite]

Will they win a game this season?

Don't be silly course they will! When United arrive.

[gjr1]

Teams like Norwich need to look at Brentford

They’ve come to have a go, not lie down and take the cash try to get back up next season

[Dull Tools]

I suspect a lot of people would take the job. There's only twenty PL manager jobs and a lot of them out of reach for some still pretty decent managers. Howe? Wilder? Both similarly good records of getting clubs promoted but far better records of keeping clubs in the PL. You've then obviously got the tired old names like pint of wine, cabbage head and Mrs Doubtfire but even then are any of them going to do any worse than Farke?

I just dont get the mindset. Because he's got them promoted twice is absolutely no guarantee he'd do it again if they get relegated and retain him. I actually don't think its ever been done before in terms of a team going up, down, up, down and up again. After the second relegation I just can't believe that there wouldn't be a drop off. And its completely reliant on the same players doing the business for him again, which seems unlikely considering their age, contract status or just general ability. How long are the likes of Cantwell and Aarons going to be happy being at a club who dont even try to stay in the PL? Two young English players regularly linked with moves to PL clubs. They're hardly going to go into another contract negotiation when the best they can be offered is getting battered most weeks in the PL. Pukki has scored 29 and 26 in his two Championship seasons, is he going to do that again when he's 32? He already looks on the wane, has one non-penalty goal so far this season. How motivated are the new players going to be? Rashica, Sargent and Tzolis essentially signed to do well in the Championship because they don't have any real ambition to stay up...?

Its clearly very hard to stay up and establish a team in the PL but fucking hell....at least try

They are a really well run club and didn't want to over extend themselves and risk the club. They did invest more this year. Gilmour, Kabak and Williams were good loan signings. They also spent 60m. Rachica and Tzsolis were really highly rated.

You talk about Sheffield United staying up but as a club Norwich are in a much better position. Huddersfield stayed up and then fell into the abyss as have lots of other teams.

I get their approach but obviously it must be dissapointing not to be doing better this year. They have played a lot of tough teams already though. Their next fixtures are easier so will see how they got on.

I do agree that Howe or Wilder would be good appointments though.

[El Lobo]

They are a really well run club and didn't want to over extend themselves and risk the club. They did invest more this year. Gilmour, Kabak and Williams were good loan signings. They also spent 60m. Rachica and Tzsolis were really highly rated.

You talk about Sheffield United staying up but as a club Norwich are in a much better position. Huddersfield stayed up and then fell into the abyss as have lots of other teams.

I get their approach but obviously it must be dissapointing not to be doing better this year. They have played a lot of tough teams already though. Their next fixtures are easier so will see how they got on.

I do agree that Howe or Wilder would be good appointments though.

They're a well run club until the second they can't get promoted next season (hypothetically) at which point it becomes 'maybe you should have tried harder to stay up?'. And they've been relegated 5 times in the last 15 years, and looking good for a 6th. They're the most relegated side in PL history. So I'm not sure they're as well run club as people think they are. This is their tenth season in the Premier League and half of them have ended in relegation. Increasingly likely already to be 6 out of 11.

They're not a big club, but they're not minnows. Are they any smaller particularly than Burnley, or Palace, or Watford, or Brighton? Or Brentford?

I know it'll end up going round in circles and repeating ourselves but I just can't fathom holding onto a manager they know can't hack it in the PL because he's got them promoted a couple of times and they think its a guarantee he'll do it again.

[Max_powers]

Teams like Norwich need to look at Brentford

They’ve come to have a go, not lie down and take the cash try to get back up next season

I don't know if its just about having a go.

Brentford is one of most well run clubs in the league system. They have been doing, what we have been doing but with a smaller budget. Moneyball, attention to detail in every aspect of the game, excellent scouting. Heck we even stole the Throw-in coach from Brentford and FC Midtjylland (Sister club).

A team like Watford also benefits from Pozzo family connections to Granada and Udinese. They also have vast scouting network and pick up many South American and African players and develop them using their loan system.

Norwich spent more on Transfers than Brentford or Watford this season, granted it was partly funded by sale of Bundeia. They just spent it very poorly. They have a championship level defense and try to play champagne football. Farke is just very naïve.

Brentford know their limitations and play to it. Its like the Watford team from the 80's. High pressing and big physical players to go route 1 when attacking.

[scatman]

They're a well run club until the second they can't get promoted next season (hypothetically) at which point it becomes 'maybe you should have tried harder to stay up?'. And they've been relegated 5 times in the last 15 years, and looking good for a 6th. They're the most relegated side in PL history. So I'm not sure they're as well run club as people think they are. This is their tenth season in the Premier League and half of them have ended in relegation. Increasingly likely already to be 6 out of 11.

They're not a big club, but they're not minnows. Are they any smaller particularly than Burnley, or Palace, or Watford, or Brighton? Or Brentford?

I know it'll end up going round in circles and repeating ourselves but I just can't fathom holding onto a manager they know can't hack it in the PL because he's got them promoted a couple of times and they think its a guarantee he'll do it again.

of course they are a well run club. What kind of bullshit assertion is that? They aren't broke, they don't have rich owners pretending to buy the ground to prop up their FFP, have you seen the finances of the majority of football league clubs? There's nothing wrong with being a yoyo club. Burnley were a yoyo club and then they've established themselves in the league. It's also stupid to assert that they don't try staying up, sometimes a team just isn't good enough, you're acting as though their manager and their players want to lose games. Not everyone can be as good as your Leicester City side backed by Thai billionaires earned by scrupulous methods.

[El Lobo]

of course they are a well run club. What kind of bullshit assertion is that? They aren't broke, they don't have rich owners pretending to buy the ground to prop up their FFP, have you seen the finances of the majority of football league clubs? There's nothing wrong with being a yoyo club. Burnley were a yoyo club and then they've established themselves in the league. It's also stupid to assert that they don't try staying up, sometimes a team just isn't good enough, you're acting as though their manager and their players want to lose games. Not everyone can be as good as your Leicester City side backed by Thai billionaires earned by scrupulous methods.

Did someone wake up on the wrong side of the bed? 

[Samie]

Norwich City can confirm that head coach Daniel Farke has left the club with immediate effect.

https://twitter.com/NorwichCityFC/status/1457067767073497088

[Caligula?]

Just as they've finally won a game as well 

[Kekule]

I thought he was fairly safe there. Especially after a win.

[Fiasco]

Just as they've finally won a game as well 

Fucking bizarre isn't it

[Gerry Attrick]

They’ll regret it. Big time. Best manager they’ve had in decades.

[Lastrador]

They don't tolerate success in Norwich.

[Elzar]

Really strange. Can only presume they had a plan for the international break and were waiting.

[Bobsackamano]

Must have a new management team already lined up to take over during the international break. He's been there a while, won a couple of Div 2 titles and probably knew it was his last game, nice way to sign off and always seemed a good guy.

[Cu Chulainn]

Really strange, the timing in particular.

[Redsnappa]

BBC reckon he didn't have an inkling it was coming ...

In Farke's post-match interview with BBC Sport, he gave no indication he knew he was about to lose his job.

"We definitely have a chance [of survival]," he said. "It's a long marathon. The longer we work together the better we will be as a team. I can't guarantee we'll stay in the league but don't write us off."

[12C]

Delia making gravy as we type.
All set for the Bisto Kid to ride into town

[elsewhere]

strange timing

[Caligula?]

They’ll regret it. Big time. Best manager they’ve had in decades.

They've had managers who have kept them up before. Paul Lambert I think it was. He took them from League One to the Premier League and kept them there before he left for Villa.

[Gerry Attrick]

They've had managers who have kept them up before. Paul Lambert I think it was. He took them from League One to the Premier League and kept them there before he left for Villa.

Lambert is a terrible manager, as evidenced by his work everywhere. Farke will go on to have a very good career at a team that isn’t so reliant on finding bargains.

[disgraced cake]

I can't believe anybody thinks it's strange. They won 5 prem games in their last season in the league and have won 1/11 this time around. I was baffled he wasn't gone weeks ago.

[Caligula?]

Lambert is a terrible manager, as evidenced by his work everywhere. Farke will go on to have a very good career at a team that isn’t so reliant on finding bargains.

I don't know, he could be another David Wagner. Keeping up that Huddersfield team was a bigger achievement than anything Farke has ever done and he's since been average everywhere else. I think Farke is very average to be honest.

[Libertine]

BBC live text today:

16:22
Brentford 0-1 Norwich
Delia Smith with a face as though her chocolate souffle has not risen as she expected it to.
Cheer up, your side are ahead.


Clearly wasn't expecting a win to cloud the narrative of the decision that had already been made.

[Peabee]

BBC live text today:

16:22
Brentford 0-1 Norwich
Delia Smith with a face as though her chocolate souffle has not risen as she expected it to.
Cheer up, your side are ahead.


Clearly wasn't expecting a win to cloud the narrative of the decision that had already been made.

I think sometimes a decision is moved forward after a loss to make it easier to justify the decision, but then a lot of people assume the game made the decision. For example, it’s easier to announce the sacking of Mourinho after a loss to Liverpool.

Conversely, I think Levy sacked Mourinho before the league cup final to avoid having to justify sacking him after a trophy win.

[jacobs chains]

I think sometimes a decision is moved forward after a loss to make it easier to justify the decision, but then a lot of people assume the game made the decision. For example, it’s easier to announce the sacking of Mourinho after a loss to Liverpool.

Conversely, I think Levy sacked Mourinho before the league cup final to avoid having to justify sacking him after a trophy win.

Wasn't it more to do with avoiding the massive pay out if Mourinho fluked a result and won Spurs a cup?

[Peabee]

Wasn't it more to do with avoiding the massive pay out if Mourinho fluked a result and won Spurs a cup?

OK, that too, but my point stands that a decision is usually brought forward after a loss (or before a potential win in the other case) rather than being a decision made that day.

[Red-Soldier]

Former Norwich striker Chris Sutton told BBC Radio 5 Live: "I think if Norwich have to make a change, they have to make it now to give themselves a chance.

"I think Farke's done a fantastic job, Norwich backed his model, they gave him a four-year deal in the summer.

"This must have been in the thought process for a while. We don't like to see people sacked, but Norwich City want the best chance to be in the Premier League.

"You look at teams like Brentford, they're competitive. Norwich haven't been."

[OsirisMVZ]

"You look at teams like Brentford, they're competitive"

Except when they get beat at home to Norwich

[Dave McCoy]

If one game changes your opinion on a manager then your a clown who has no business running a club.

[Redsnappa]

Fat Frank is turning into the 2020's version of Alan Curbishley 

Next Norwich manager odds (via Sky Bet)

Frank Lampard 10/11
Pascal Jansen 8/1
Russell Martin 10/1
Steve Bruce 12/1
Nuno Espirito Santo 16/1
Sam Allardyce 16/1

[Alf]

The Norwich fans when we went there in the league cup, were fed up with bouncing up and down from the PL. They also felt that money had been wasted. Comparisons to Brentford, who’ve got a good infrastructure and have been on the crest of a wave since day 1. Are wide of the mark for me.

[The North Bank]

Fat Frank is turning into the 2020's version of Alan Curbishley 

Next Norwich manager odds (via Sky Bet)

Frank Lampard 10/11
Pascal Jansen 8/1
Russell Martin 10/1
Steve Bruce 12/1
Nuno Espirito Santo 16/1
Sam Allardyce 16/1

From this list I’d go for Nuno .

Everyone fails at spurs so that shouldn’t count against him

[harleydanger]

Daniel, you had clear instructions to not win a game this year, after this result we have to let you go.

[The North Bank]

Daniel, you had clear instructions to not win a game this year, after this result we have to let you go.

If a win gets you sacked then Ole is more than safe.