Topic: Do you support the strikes?

[RainbowFlick]

Would be great if any matchgoers that happen to possess a RMT flag bring it with them. Or if you don't go to the match, I'm sure me or someone else would gladly take it with us.

[west_london_red]

Would be great if any matchgoers that happen to possess a RMT flag bring it with them. Or if you don't go to the match, I'm sure me or someone else would gladly take it with us.

The Celtic fans had one on the weekend at their match, good on them!

[RF]

Amazon workers strikes now spread to 4 warehouses.

[RF]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thousands-uk-households-wont-deliveries-27673029

[RF]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-62441773.amp

[McSquared]

Some more straight talking mick lynch for you

https://youtu.be/MwTD4fH31-I

[PaulF]

Some more straight talking mick lynch for you

https://youtu.be/MwTD4fH31-I

Only half way through that but he is exactly the right person for that role at the moment.  Too many trade union leaders come across as hard line lefties, which gains support of their members, but the unions need the support of the general public. I think the general public see anything left as shades of socialism/ communism / Trotskyism. All blended into one with no nuance. Any ism other than capitalism is bad ( I include racism there, I suspect most racists don't see themselves as racist).

Totally hold my hand up and admit to no knowledge of the different forms of left government.

[Red46]

Only half way through that but he is exactly the right person for that role at the moment.  Too many trade union leaders come across as hard line lefties, which gains support of their members, but the unions need the support of the general public. I think the general public see anything left as shades of socialism/ communism / Trotskyism. All blended into one with no nuance. Any ism other than capitalism is bad ( I include racism there, I suspect most racists don't see themselves as racist).

Totally hold my hand up and admit to no knowledge of the different forms of left government.

What makes it so laughable is that the trade union movement has been on the right side of history far more often than any political party.

[reddebs]

Bring all the fuckers out and stop the country in its tracks, no pun intended 😂😂

[TipTopKop]

Some more straight talking mick lynch for you

https://youtu.be/MwTD4fH31-I

He's brilliant isn't he? Always on the mark.

[Machae]

Some more straight talking mick lynch for you

https://youtu.be/MwTD4fH31-I

Agree with a few of his comments on Starmer and Labour

[ianburns252]

Some more straight talking mick lynch for you

https://youtu.be/MwTD4fH31-I

I can't pretend to have known anything of him prior to the latest rail strikes and so this has been the first time I've heard him speak.

The way he articulates himself though is to be admired - he is clear, concise, and most importantly he is not aggressive in how he speaks. Even when discussing the actions of the Tories he has taken the route of being firm and calm, making his point without the need for rhetoric and anger (even though he, as many rightly are, will be angry at what they are doing) and so feels like a return to a better time where arguements weren't won by who could shout the loudest and make the most extreme arguement but by who could state the facts and make their case the best.

I'd hate to be up against him in a negotiation (were I a Tory which, to be clear I'm not) as they wouldn't get under his skin, you couldn't paint him as a "far left loony" as they would usually try to and that makes him all the more dangerous (from their point of view).

I'd imagine also where I may disagree with him he would be able to present his argument in such as way as I know I'd at least take it on board and compare and contrast, maybe even shift a bit and that is what is needed to get to those who may not disagree with the strikes but who aren't fully onboard or don't understand the importance.

Now I'd genuinely hope to never have to hear from him again due to Labour getting in to power and these workers getting the wages and conditions they deserve but I'm glad he is in the position he is because there are going to be more fights to be won over the coming years and I have no doubt he is the person to lead them

[west_london_red]

Bob Crow left some big shoes to fill when he passed away, but Mick Lynch has probably taken it to a never level in the way he remains so calm regardless of how stupid or antagonistic the questions he’s asked sometime are. If  they were still an affiliated union I probably would have jumped ship to the RMT, but unfortunately they ain’t so I won’t.

[PaulF]

Do you reckon he's personally involved in negotiations with employers? I assume they have specialists.
A bit like a minister or pm announcing the results of negotiations which are mostly undertaken by civil servants.

[west_london_red]

Do you reckon he's personally involved in negotiations with employers? I assume they have specialists.
A bit like a minister or pm announcing the results of negotiations which are mostly undertaken by civil servants.

I don’t think he’d be around the table himself, I’m pretty sure they have negotiators.

[Red46]

The BBC news coverage of this (web) doesn’t offer much balance, instead coming from the ‘disruption’ angle, solely.

Well the BBC has form when it comes to strikes, back during the 1926 General Strike it banned Labour MP’s and workers advocates from the airways and broadcast from Prime Minister Stanley Baldwin’s parlour/drawing room. When the strike was called off resulting in the workers losing Lord Reith himself read out the words of Jerusalem live on air to celebrate (from Baldwins parlour/drawing room). During the 84/85 strike they infamously reversed footage to make it look like Miners had attacked the Bizzies first.
The BBC is the mouthpiece of the establishment.

[ianburns252]

Do you reckon he's personally involved in negotiations with employers? I assume they have specialists.
A bit like a minister or pm announcing the results of negotiations which are mostly undertaken by civil servants.

Very true - it isn't like Grant Shapps and Mike Lynch are sat across a table from each other. There are many though who do perceive it to be the case that Ministers and people such as Lynch are there hammering out the finer points of things when in reality they are the public face of things.

As long, though, as these people are thought to be conducting and reporting on the negotiations then the opposition will take advantage of that and someone with a more aggressive or antagonistic approach would be sold as your typical Trot trying to rinse the public purse rather than this relatable guy who should appeal to people across the political spectrum.

[Machae]

Rail fares go up each year in line with inflation to cover increases in costs, yet wages don't go up nearly as much. Haven't those people arguing against strikes, wondering where the fuck this money is going then?

[killer-heels]

Rail fares go up each year in line with inflation to cover increases in costs, yet wages don't go up nearly as much. Haven't those people arguing against strikes, wondering where the fuck this money is going then?

A point that Lynch makes all the time, the fares go up huge amounts and yet the wages do not. Honestly this country needs a slap, if it doesn't vote out these fucking c*nts then there is no hope.

[PaulF]

A point that Lynch makes all the time, the fares go up huge amounts and yet the wages do not. Honestly this country needs a slap, if it doesn't vote out these fucking c*nts then there is no hope.

Now now. We all now the private companies are using those increases in rail fares to invest heavily in the railways after labour let it decline for years .

And Everton are going to win the league.

[Wilmo]

Some more straight talking mick lynch for you

https://youtu.be/MwTD4fH31-I

This looks like a campaign video, not a bad thing, I just don't know why

This guy is great as well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vOD3L7v-q8

[gazzalfc]

So the ongoing strike affecting Arriva buses on Merseyside enters a 3rd week with no service. Arriva says they have made an improved offer of up to 9.6% which Unite and GMB wont put to a vote, Unite and GMB say its an offer which averages the 8.5% originally offered as only those who have worked for 5 years or more will get the 9.6% and the rest would get 7.5%.

So it's the typical company move of trying to split the collective bargaining union into those that want to deal whilst keeping the pay rise pot the same. Hence why the deal wont be put to their members.

As for the rail - Avanti North West are putting out an amended timetable from August 14 to September 11 due to rail drivers only choosing to 'work to rule'. All rail operators rely on their drivers making themselves available for overtime to ensure full service. Since the last strike, most drivers are now making themselves unavailable for overtime so rail operators cannot fully staff every train service (hence all the cancelled trains recently due to 'shortage of train crew')

Avanti have been calling this an 'Unofficial strike' whereas the unions are saying that Avanti have not employed enough drivers to meet demand.

[sheepfest]

Been strange not to see the Arriva buses about and fair play to those striking but it's a pity for added exposure that it has not made the national news unless I've missed it?

[oldfordie]

So the ongoing strike affecting Arriva buses on Merseyside enters a 3rd week with no service. Arriva says they have made an improved offer of up to 9.6% which Unite and GMB wont put to a vote, Unite and GMB say its an offer which averages the 8.5% originally offered as only those who have worked for 5 years or more will get the 9.6% and the rest would get 7.5%.

So it's the typical company move of trying to split the collective bargaining union into those that want to deal whilst keeping the pay rise pot the same. Hence why the deal wont be put to their members.

As for the rail - Avanti North West are putting out an amended timetable from August 14 to September 11 due to rail drivers only choosing to 'work to rule'. All rail operators rely on their drivers making themselves available for overtime to ensure full service. Since the last strike, most drivers are now making themselves unavailable for overtime so rail operators cannot fully staff every train service (hence all the cancelled trains recently due to 'shortage of train crew')

Avanti have been calling this an 'Unofficial strike' whereas the unions are saying that Avanti have not employed enough drivers to meet demand.

Do Arriva have different contracts of employment for all the UK regions?
Finding it strange to read Arriva Cheshire and Lancashire being on strike while other regions have settled. could mean other regions contracts may not be up for negotiation yet. must be a reason for this but know idea how the union have allowed it.

[redbyrdz]

So the ongoing strike affecting Arriva buses on Merseyside enters a 3rd week with no service. Arriva says they have made an improved offer of up to 9.6% which Unite and GMB wont put to a vote, Unite and GMB say its an offer which averages the 8.5% originally offered as only those who have worked for 5 years or more will get the 9.6% and the rest would get 7.5%.

So it's the typical company move of trying to split the collective bargaining union into those that want to deal whilst keeping the pay rise pot the same. Hence why the deal wont be put to their members.

As for the rail - Avanti North West are putting out an amended timetable from August 14 to September 11 due to rail drivers only choosing to 'work to rule'. All rail operators rely on their drivers making themselves available for overtime to ensure full service. Since the last strike, most drivers are now making themselves unavailable for overtime so rail operators cannot fully staff every train service (hence all the cancelled trains recently due to 'shortage of train crew')

Avanti have been calling this an 'Unofficial strike' whereas the unions are saying that Avanti have not employed enough drivers to meet demand.

Employment law is pretty clear that you can only work overtime now and then, and that it can't be used to complete regular work. So if the train crew are working to contracted hours  and Arriva have staff shortages as a consequence, they quite clearly haven't employed enough train staff.

[Statto Red]

Employment law is pretty clear that you can only work overtime now and then, and that it can't be used to complete regular work. So if the train crew are working to contracted hours  and Arriva have staff shortages as a consequence, they quite clearly haven't employed enough train staff.

Not only that, but the law is clear that you can not take unofficial strike action either, if AWC feel it's unofficial strike then they can take the Union to court, if not then management at AWC are lying trying to justify the mess AWC are in right now.

 The issue is, staff in the rail industry are rostered to Monday to Friday shifts, weekend shifts are considered voluntary overtime [which is ridiculous in a 7 day a week industry], but industrial relations are so bad at AWC right now, & staff can't wait to leave AWC, & so are not doing weekend shifts.

[TepidT2O]

There’s talk of a general TUC led strike


But how many actually belong to a union?  I’m aware that I’m probably in a minority being in one (although I don’t think mine is affiliated to the TUC)

[ianburns252]

There’s talk of a general TUC led strike


But how many actually belong to a union?  I’m aware that I’m probably in a minority being in one (although I don’t think mine is affiliated to the TUC)

Google pegs it at c. 23% so not insignificant but not anywhere near what it would have been 20 years ago.

[Commie Bobbie]

Google pegs it at c. 23% so not insignificant but not anywhere near what it would have been 20 years ago.

Honestly, I don’t think it would take as many striking workers nowadays to grind the country to an halt.

You could have London stopping and it would affect the rest of the country by default.

[ianburns252]

Honestly, I don’t think it would take as many striking workers nowadays to grind the country to an halt.

You could have London stopping and it would affect the rest of the country by default.

When you looks at which industries/jobs are unionised as standard they are the key to the country being able to function.

Teachers go on strike, kids have to be looked after, workers suddenly need time off (or at least a truncated day)
Transport workers go on strike - suddenly it is a hell of a lot harder for people to get to work, get their kids to school, generally function
Warehouse workers or delivery drivers go and where are we getting food or goods from as they can't get to the end destination


Obviously the above is over simplified but you are right that it would be very easy to bring much of the country to a halt

[Andy @ Allerton!]

The buses being on strike has really caused big issues to me and the missus - missed a few things because of it - including giving blood and she's having to use taxi's to help sort her dad out.

But still agree that they need to stand up for their rights.

Even though it is a pain in the arse. The problem is that the Tories and Tory voters don't give a fuck because it's unlikely they'd ever stoop to using a bus.

[PaulF]

Even though it is a pain in the arse. The problem is that the Tories and Tory voters don't give a fuck because it's unlikely they'd ever stoop to using a bus.

Bit of a double edged sword. There's plenty of places where the cost(time and money) of getting a bus makes it very much a last resort option.  I'm lucky enough to have a decent bus run into a town centre that I'd never want to visit, but the cost for me and my daughter is outrageous.  Though the weekly saver fares look to be a considerable saving.

[redbyrdz]

Read earlier that apparently people retiring early are fuelling inflation. Because then the companies have to pay better wages to hire someone new, and finding staff is difficult right now. But the better wages for new staff are driving inflation up...

Hang on....so the current staff are essentially underpaid compared to the market? Maybe there should be a lot more strikes for increased wages!

[Yorkykopite]

Some more straight talking mick lynch for you

https://youtu.be/MwTD4fH31-I

He's very good. His manner is perfect. I love the way he shows contempt for the Tories or certain news journalists by simply smiling at their stupidity.

I'd like to see RMT publish a bill, or a detailed plan, for nationalising the railways. It's what the Railway Nationalisation Society and the old NUR did for many years until they won the case in 1948. Perhaps they have done so already, but I can't find anything. 

I'd love to know how their ownership model would work. How decentralised would it be? Would there be an element of worker control? How exactly would it be funded? What role - if any - would Westminster have?  How would the rail network be "integrated" (as he says in this piece) with the bus, tram and ferry networks? Could most freight realistically be sent by the rails, or would that need a massive expansion of the network?

In other words they need to move beyond the rhetoric stage and start to devise a programme to put before the public. I presume that the RMT research officers have studied French and Dutch railways closely. Let's see their conclusions.

[Linudden]

Are the rail workers getting closer to receiving better terms? Since I'm not in Britain I haven't followed. Fingers crossed for them.

[PaulF]

Good points yorky. And unlike opposition parties, there's nothing to fear if government take and enact those plans. Getting it done is more important that who does it.
I wonder if any country has renationalised railways to be used as a case study.

[PaulF]

Are the rail workers getting closer to receiving better terms? Since I'm not in Britain I haven't followed. Fingers crossed for them.

Not on our mainstream news. I imagine we very much only see the duck. Not the furious paddling going on underwater.

[oldfordie]

He's very good. His manner is perfect. I love the way he shows contempt for the Tories or certain news journalists by simply smiling at their stupidity.

I'd like to see RMT publish a bill, or a detailed plan, for nationalising the railways. It's what the Railway Nationalisation Society and the old NUR did for many years until they won the case in 1948. Perhaps they have done so already, but I can't find anything. 

I'd love to know how their ownership model would work. How decentralised would it be? Would there be an element of worker control? How exactly would it be funded? What role - if any - would Westminster have?  How would the rail network be "integrated" (as he says in this piece) with the bus, tram and ferry networks? Could most freight realistically be sent by the rails, or would that need a massive expansion of the network?

In other words they need to move beyond the rhetoric stage and start to devise a programme to put before the public. I presume that the RMT research officers have studied French and Dutch railways closely. Let's see their conclusions.

I maybe on my own here but I never believed Thatcher's reasons for privatisation were all down to selling off the crown jewels to pay for unemployment benefits and supporting the Capitalist system etc. she may have even believed competition might bring lower prices but I don't put it down to that either.
Think it was more about absolving government from the responsibility of running a efficient service, stopping services from being a political issue to attack the government.
I think this should be given some thought when it comes to the Nationalisation argument as if it came about then the government of the day would be responsible for funding and the efficiency, strikes etc.  it then becomes a political issue.  Tory politicians will look at it as creating a rod to beat themselves with. I believe this is how Thatcher looked at it and all Torys look at it today, Money and profits do play a big part but absolving themselves from as much responsibility as possible to eliminate public criticism for a badly run service was very important to them.

[Statto Red]

Do Arriva have different contracts of employment for all the UK regions?
Finding it strange to read Arriva Cheshire and Lancashire being on strike while other regions have settled. could mean other regions contracts may not be up for negotiation yet. must be a reason for this but know idea how the union have allowed it.

Yes Arriva do, all the major operators, have different rates of pay for the different areas they operate in, & it's not recent thing either, i remember when Stagecoach owned Blackburn, drivers there were regally going on one day strikes, because Stagecoach Manchester drivers were on better rates & this was the late 90s, Stagecoach ended up selling the depot.

Arriva Yorkshire were on an indefinite strike 2 months ago, which lasted until around 6th July, feels like feels like Arrive Merseyside/North West one could go on longer, & drag well into September.

[oldfordie]

Yes Arriva do, all the major operators, have different rates of pay for the different areas they operate in, & it's not recent thing either, i remember when Stagecoach owned Blackburn, drivers there were regally going on one day strikes, because Stagecoach Manchester drivers were on better rates & this was the late 90s, Stagecoach ended up selling the depot.

Arriva Yorkshire were on an indefinite strike 2 months ago, which lasted until around 6th July, feels like feels like Arrive Merseyside/North West one could go on longer, & drag well into September.

Thanks. So each area work for the same company and they are all on different contracts of employments, hard to work out how this happened, surely they are in the same big Unions, Unite+GMB. how could they allow the management to split their wage negotiations to regional disputes. I would be harsher but don't know all the ins and outs but you can see why Arrivas refusing to settle, give one region a good deal and everyone else will want one, it should be all out not just one region.