Poll

.. and they admit they voted for it.. is it OK to laugh?

Hell Yes.
Yes
Certainly
I think so
No!

Author Topic: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..  (Read 7782 times)

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Like everyone else, I've been expecting the sunlit uplands promosed to us, but have just seen lies, shite and Boris Johnsons inbred mug spewing shite.

Is it OK to laugh or should be all be sad and er.. more sad?
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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #1 on: March 9, 2021, 12:43:10 am »
Laugh as loud of a belly laugh as you can muster.
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Offline Commie Bobbie

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #2 on: March 9, 2021, 07:06:23 am »
Got have a giggle. Nothing much else to at the moment.
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Offline rob1966

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #3 on: March 9, 2021, 06:49:20 pm »
7 mins in, I dare you not to laugh  ;D

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #4 on: March 9, 2021, 06:58:57 pm »
Absolutely it's OK, in fact it would be rude not to laugh!
However if something serious happens to them I will eat my own cock.


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Offline rob1966

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #5 on: March 9, 2021, 06:59:55 pm »
Who voted no?
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Offline jedimaster

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #6 on: March 9, 2021, 08:31:24 pm »
7 mins in, I dare you not to laugh  ;D

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/8Qy7IUmgyCo" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/8Qy7IUmgyCo</a>

It's almost like a lot of Brexiteers didn't think things through before they voted to leave....surely they wouldn't do that would they?  ::)
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Offline Skeeve

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2021, 01:45:01 am »
It's almost like a lot of Brexiteers didn't think things through before they voted to leave....surely they wouldn't do that would they?  ::)

They thought things through, their thought was limited to will this stop more brown people coming to the uk though, rather than actually thinking about whether or not the entire process was a bad idea.  :duh

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2021, 07:50:32 am »
Depends. If it's the "but I thought they were just going to get rid of the darkies" brigade I will be laughing inside.

And of course, any business owner who voted for it deserves nothing but scorn. It's their employees I worry about though.
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Offline rob1966

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2021, 10:00:17 am »
It's almost like a lot of Brexiteers didn't think things through before they voted to leave....surely they wouldn't do that would they?  ::)

He greedily thought he could trade globally and make shit loads of money while fucking the rest of us over - typical I'm alright Jack fuck you mentality
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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2021, 10:27:05 am »
And of course, any business owner who voted for it deserves nothing but scorn. It's their employees I worry about though.

That's the problem I think. While that guy and many other business owners are whining about how awful Brexit is, most of them will still be quite well off even if they have to close their business. Their employees are in a much harder situation and they might not even have voted for Brexit.

What I find most baffling about all those business owners having voted for Brexit, who are now complaining, is the question of what they actually expected to happen. Being in the EU was the best thing they could have. They were able to export to other EU countries with minimal restrictions. Exports to every other country involved more (and in some cases much more) paperwork than exporting to the EU. That's just how international trade works. There is paperwork involved when you export to another country. It is just insane that people thought leaving the EU would somehow make it possible that they could export to every other country without restrictions. I am no business owner and I have no real insight into how exporting or importing works, but even for someone who has only minimal knowledge it should be clear that countries (or economic unions like the EU) will try and protect their own businesses and standards. The only way to get around that is fulfilling those standards and documenting that with lots of paperwork. I would expect a business owner to do some research when he makes an important decisions like voting for or against Brexit. If they had done that, most of them should have realised that things would get harder for them and not easier.

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2021, 10:40:32 am »
Full Nelson from Simpsons for me.

Offline jedimaster

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2021, 12:51:09 pm »
He greedily thought he could trade globally and make shit loads of money while fucking the rest of us over - typical I'm alright Jack fuck you mentality

And the ones who voted for those reasons will get exactly what they deserve. Karma eh?  ;D
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Offline hide5seek

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2021, 05:13:22 pm »
Hell! yes!

Offline bigbonedrawky

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2021, 04:00:43 pm »
Better to point out it's easier to con someone than it is to convince someone they've been conned but laughter has got to be better than throwing insults at them.
If you throw enough rocks at somebody they'll build a wall and with the amount of rocks been thrown during the "Brexit debate" some people have built fully concentric castles...and laughing at them won't make a difference

Offline Ashburton

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2021, 04:11:32 pm »
Not for me, no. 

Many of them were conned and didn't know better, many were frustrated with aspects of their lives and this was them reaching out and trying to change something - anything.  Laughing at hardship is a dick move.

The genuine bigots and racists, sure, I think it's fair to laugh at those - especially as ironically Britain will now need more immigration in the future to keep the lights on.   But those who were down and out and taken for a ride, don't think it helps anyone if we're just adding layers of divisiveness.  We're in the situation we're in, some of the Remain crowd calling more than half the population racist xenophobes from a high and mighty position just makes them look like they're quite ignorant to be honest.  It's a disingenuous analysis and not learning lessons by honestly looking at Brexit and the causes aren't going help.

Offline El Lobo

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2021, 04:14:38 pm »
Absolutely yes, many times.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline kj999

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2021, 05:22:41 am »
I voted Leave. But it was not for racist or nationalist reasons, as I am neither a racist, nor a nationalist.
Nor was it for reasons of being 'conned' by the Tories, right-wing press, or any other such facet.

My vote was not determined or affected by my personal circumstances. I don’t live in the UK (but I retain my right to vote in elections and referenda) so would not feel any personal impact of the outcome either way. MY vote was determined by a lengthy analysis of what the EU actually is, its origins and history, and its fundamental deep-lying foundational purpose as a protectionist establishment designed to ensure the survival of the French and German banks who first espoused it, and latterly, to protect the gravy-train of its undemocratic commission members. In my opinion, it is morally repugnant. And BECAUSE my life isn’t affected by it, I can take an objective view, and vote to leave said establishment - knowing that it won’t affect me. I recognise that many UK residents, will suffer as a result of the UK leaving the EU, and as such, on balance, would rather stay IN a rancid establishment, because it suits their personal circumstances. Absolutely understandable.

Whether the EU remains a solid establishment, one that benefits all of its members going forward, remains to be seen. I know of many who voted Remain who also sah about the EU that it “isn’t perfect”... i’d suggest that as a gross understatement. It is in drastic need of reform. Thus my vote for Brexit was not about the perceived benefits to the UK, nationalism, racism, jingoism, or anything else of that nature. It was, I guess, a protest vote, against the bureacratic shitshow that is the EU.

I AM an internationalist. I believe in a world without borders, with free trade, freedom of movement, and reduced bureaucracy. And in many ways, it seems like the EU embodies these characteristics. BUT IT DOES NOT. The EU created MORE borders, HARDER freedom of movement, and HIGHER tariffs, for those who are OUTSIDE of it, as you in Britain are now finding out. More deeply than that, however, is that the EU appears to embody these characteristics, but only when it suits it - only when it suits the financial institutions it champions, and the capitalist mentality it embodies and emboldens. As an establishment, it is fundamentally rotten - it needs huge reform, or it needs replacing, if it is to continue to be fit for purpose.
I am currency reading Varoufakis’s “Another Way” (I highly recomment it). A great take on the world that we COULD be living in. A shift away from the mutli-national ruled, capitalist society in which we currently live, and a move towards an international society with more socialist underpinnings. It’s a fascinating read, and one that may appear at first utopian, but when one can actually conceive that, perhaps, things CAN change, there is a future beyond capitalism, and that it is establishments like the EU, the European Central Bank, the IMF etc that are PREVENTING this “other way” from ever being accomplished, PERHAPS it can be seen that a vote against the EU, that undermines the EU, is a vote for the betterment of society as a whole.

Is it possible to perceive that there are OTHER reasons for voting Brexit, other than "you're a racist", or "you were conned"? Whenever I come across Brexit discussions on person, or in forums, it is always portrayed as a binary decision. But perhaps it is not two sides of the same coin, a binary decision, but rather, a different coin entirely - my perception of the EU, of Brexit, and of the consequences, is completely different to that which is usually espoused.

There IS an argument against the EU, and a future in the EU, if one removes oneself from the situation. (If one can). If one reads extensively on the origins of the EU, what it was, what it is, and what it may become. And to then decide that a long term prognosis for human society is a future outside of (or preferably WITHOUT altogether) establishments like the EU.

A Jack waving, Express reading, little Englander, I am not. And yet, I voted Brexit. How is this possible? Well, as I have explained, I think its all about about a sense of perspective.
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Offline kavah

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2021, 05:43:38 am »
Good explanation of your viewpoint KJ.
Were you not tempted to abstain given that you don’t have any skin in the game and leave it up to the people that are going to be stuck with all the Brexit problems.
Obviously you don’t rate the EU, but repugnant seems a bit strong in a world which until 3 months ago was dominated by Trump’s America and China.
I think most  folk on here voted remain because of pragmatic reasons like free- trade, freedom of movement, no visas, many with family ties all over the EU and just the fact we had been in it for a long time so it seems crazy to try and untangle.
Anyway it seems you’re happy with your choice and can watch from overseas over the next few years while some of us are trying to frantically acquire work and resident visas in places we’ve lived for years while others are watching their businesses go under
(The UK has done well with vaccines and I think mainly because of big pharma, the NHS, and some good planning in the Ministry of Health and other government departments).

Offline Commie Bobbie

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2021, 07:31:13 am »

A Jack waving, Express reading, little Englander, I am not. And yet, I voted Brexit. How is this possible? Well, as I have explained, I think its all about about a sense of perspective.

And yet every racist voted Leave.

You may not be a racist, but your vote has enabled this government to set about to create the most anti democratic policing laws in Western Europe seen in decades.

This is the thing that makes me laugh about Lexiteers. A Tory government in power, with the racist knuckle draggers supporting such a policy - you really thought a utopia was possible under that austerity laden government? Not to mention the utter abortion of an administration we currently have.

Fucking hell. And you're not even here to live what comes next. Selfish doesn't cover it.

« Last Edit: March 17, 2021, 07:38:20 am by Commie Bobbie »
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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2021, 08:05:47 am »
I voted Leave. But it was not for racist or nationalist reasons, as I am neither a racist, nor a nationalist.
Nor was it for reasons of being 'conned' by the Tories, right-wing press, or any other such facet.

My vote was not determined or affected by my personal circumstances. I don’t live in the UK (but I retain my right to vote in elections and referenda) so would not feel any personal impact of the outcome either way. MY vote was determined by a lengthy analysis of what the EU actually is, its origins and history, and its fundamental deep-lying foundational purpose as a protectionist establishment designed to ensure the survival of the French and German banks who first espoused it, and latterly, to protect the gravy-train of its undemocratic commission members. In my opinion, it is morally repugnant. And BECAUSE my life isn’t affected by it, I can take an objective view, and vote to leave said establishment - knowing that it won’t affect me. I recognise that many UK residents, will suffer as a result of the UK leaving the EU, and as such, on balance, would rather stay IN a rancid establishment, because it suits their personal circumstances. Absolutely understandable.

Whether the EU remains a solid establishment, one that benefits all of its members going forward, remains to be seen. I know of many who voted Remain who also sah about the EU that it “isn’t perfect”... i’d suggest that as a gross understatement. It is in drastic need of reform. Thus my vote for Brexit was not about the perceived benefits to the UK, nationalism, racism, jingoism, or anything else of that nature. It was, I guess, a protest vote, against the bureacratic shitshow that is the EU.





What country do you live in?

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2021, 08:06:12 am »
Voting on an issue in a country you've decided not to live in is pure Brexit.
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Offline Judge Redd

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2021, 08:18:01 am »
The EU created MORE borders, HARDER freedom of movement, and HIGHER tariffs, for those who are OUTSIDE of it, as you in Britain are now finding out.

Props for your considered analysis. However, I find it quite incredible that you voted for Brexit, armed with the knowledge that you were willingly voting for more borders, harder freedom of movement and higher tariffs; all the more so, given the fact that you don't live in the UK and presumably won't be affected as badly as those of us who do.

I think this was selfish. Surely abstention was the right thing to do?

Offline Crumble

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2021, 08:32:56 am »

I believe in a world without borders, with free trade, freedom of movement, and reduced bureaucracy. And in many ways, it seems like the EU embodies these characteristics. BUT IT DOES NOT. The EU created MORE borders, HARDER freedom of movement, and HIGHER tariffs, for those who are OUTSIDE of it, as you in Britain are now finding out.

Yes, but. The EU insists on certain standards of health and safety in its products and its workforce. If a third country wants to follow those, it's welcome to join in and participate in the single market. But if the third country doesn't want those safeguards, it is going to be stuck outside in the cold until it grows up and decides to be civilised.

I see the EU gradually expanding its influence, one country at a time, until it embraces the globe either by membership or by equivalence treaties. At which point nobody is left out in the cold and everyone has a decent standard of living and free movement of goods and people. Maybe a future UK government might even consider joining in by then.

The rest of your post reminds me of the Stuart Lee Brexit clip: "Dear sir, I am neither a racist nor a c*nt, merely someone with genuine anxieties about ever closer political ties with Europe. Yours, A. C*nt."
Sorry.


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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2021, 09:56:44 am »
Props for your considered analysis. However, I find it quite incredible that you voted for Brexit, armed with the knowledge that you were willingly voting for more borders, harder freedom of movement and higher tariffs; all the more so, given the fact that you don't live in the UK and presumably won't be affected as badly as those of us who do.

I think this was selfish. Surely abstention was the right thing to do?

To be honest, the explanation makes very little sense to me. It's basically voting to make life worse for a lot of people while at the same time strengthening the EU, because Brexit has apparantly shown a lot of people in other countries that being a member of such a huge block might actually not be that bad an idea. I also find it rather bizarre to be going on about how you want a world without borders while at the same time trying to blow up a Union, that has probably done more to eradicate borders between the countries on one continent than any organisation or state in the world. The EU is far from perfect and there are lots of things that could be improved from strengthening the Parliament to getting rid off the need to have unanimous decisions to loads of things about how the block acts as an entity in the world. However, blowing it up is not the way to go. That's just cutting off your nose to spite your face. If you want a world without borders that's fine. I don't think it will be achievable in any reasonable timescale (certainly not in my lifetime). Getting rid off an organisation that has done more to abolish borders in a specific area is certainly not the way to get that done.

Offline Judge Redd

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2021, 10:10:55 am »
To be honest, the explanation makes very little sense to me. It's basically voting to make life worse for a lot of people while at the same time strengthening the EU, because Brexit has apparantly shown a lot of people in other countries that being a member of such a huge block might actually not be that bad an idea. I also find it rather bizarre to be going on about how you want a world without borders while at the same time trying to blow up a Union, that has probably done more to eradicate borders between the countries on one continent than any organisation or state in the world. The EU is far from perfect and there are lots of things that could be improved from strengthening the Parliament to getting rid off the need to have unanimous decisions to loads of things about how the block acts as an entity in the world. However, blowing it up is not the way to go. That's just cutting off your nose to spite your face. If you want a world without borders that's fine. I don't think it will be achievable in any reasonable timescale (certainly not in my lifetime). Getting rid off an organisation that has done more to abolish borders in a specific area is certainly not the way to get that done.

Well said  :) Props were for the reasoned explanation of the choice, rather than the 'take back control / sovereignty' arguments that dominate this. I don't agree with the reasons and you articulated why for me!

It's not perfect but surely, SURELY it's better to be on on the inside, with all the benefits, and a material way to challenge and change how it operates, than outside it, railing at it's every move, but unable to influence anything it does (short of breaking international treaties and forcing its hand, but that's another post altogether).

The line 'vote to leave said establishment, knowing that it won't affect me' is striking, and saddening. This affects many millions of people now, and will continue to do so in the future. Me and my kids are lucky enough to have Irish passports so will still be able to avail of many of the benefits that the EU has; however I have seen choice in supermarkets reduced, shelves empty on a rolling basis, and this is only going to get worse as the grace periods start to expire. That's just not something that should be happening in a top-10 economy with an enormous free-trade bloc on its doorstep.

Ah, apologies. I'm going over old ground here again.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2021, 10:12:39 am by Judge Redd »

Offline El Lobo

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2021, 10:13:03 am »
I voted Leave. But it was not for racist or nationalist reasons, as I am neither a racist, nor a nationalist.
Nor was it for reasons of being 'conned' by the Tories, right-wing press, or any other such facet.

My vote was not determined or affected by my personal circumstances. I don’t live in the UK (but I retain my right to vote in elections and referenda) so would not feel any personal impact of the outcome either way. MY vote was determined by a lengthy analysis of what the EU actually is, its origins and history, and its fundamental deep-lying foundational purpose as a protectionist establishment designed to ensure the survival of the French and German banks who first espoused it, and latterly, to protect the gravy-train of its undemocratic commission members. In my opinion, it is morally repugnant. And BECAUSE my life isn’t affected by it, I can take an objective view, and vote to leave said establishment - knowing that it won’t affect me. I recognise that many UK residents, will suffer as a result of the UK leaving the EU, and as such, on balance, would rather stay IN a rancid establishment, because it suits their personal circumstances. Absolutely understandable.

Whether the EU remains a solid establishment, one that benefits all of its members going forward, remains to be seen. I know of many who voted Remain who also sah about the EU that it “isn’t perfect”... i’d suggest that as a gross understatement. It is in drastic need of reform. Thus my vote for Brexit was not about the perceived benefits to the UK, nationalism, racism, jingoism, or anything else of that nature. It was, I guess, a protest vote, against the bureacratic shitshow that is the EU.

I AM an internationalist. I believe in a world without borders, with free trade, freedom of movement, and reduced bureaucracy. And in many ways, it seems like the EU embodies these characteristics. BUT IT DOES NOT. The EU created MORE borders, HARDER freedom of movement, and HIGHER tariffs, for those who are OUTSIDE of it, as you in Britain are now finding out. More deeply than that, however, is that the EU appears to embody these characteristics, but only when it suits it - only when it suits the financial institutions it champions, and the capitalist mentality it embodies and emboldens. As an establishment, it is fundamentally rotten - it needs huge reform, or it needs replacing, if it is to continue to be fit for purpose.
I am currency reading Varoufakis’s “Another Way” (I highly recomment it). A great take on the world that we COULD be living in. A shift away from the mutli-national ruled, capitalist society in which we currently live, and a move towards an international society with more socialist underpinnings. It’s a fascinating read, and one that may appear at first utopian, but when one can actually conceive that, perhaps, things CAN change, there is a future beyond capitalism, and that it is establishments like the EU, the European Central Bank, the IMF etc that are PREVENTING this “other way” from ever being accomplished, PERHAPS it can be seen that a vote against the EU, that undermines the EU, is a vote for the betterment of society as a whole.

Is it possible to perceive that there are OTHER reasons for voting Brexit, other than "you're a racist", or "you were conned"? Whenever I come across Brexit discussions on person, or in forums, it is always portrayed as a binary decision. But perhaps it is not two sides of the same coin, a binary decision, but rather, a different coin entirely - my perception of the EU, of Brexit, and of the consequences, is completely different to that which is usually espoused.

There IS an argument against the EU, and a future in the EU, if one removes oneself from the situation. (If one can). If one reads extensively on the origins of the EU, what it was, what it is, and what it may become. And to then decide that a long term prognosis for human society is a future outside of (or preferably WITHOUT altogether) establishments like the EU.

A Jack waving, Express reading, little Englander, I am not. And yet, I voted Brexit. How is this possible? Well, as I have explained, I think its all about about a sense of perspective.

Nope, you're not. You're probably even worse.
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Offline ChaChaMooMoo

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2021, 10:16:27 am »
I voted Leave.
...

I AM an internationalist. I believe in a world without borders, with free trade, freedom of movement, and reduced bureaucracy.

You believe in a world without borders but then voted for drawing the British border with the EU?

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2021, 10:49:38 am »

So you were either fully aware of the racist and austerity driven undertones of the Brexit campaign, and aware of the effect it would have on the people living in the UK, or you made your vote without considering this....

And then made the decision to vote for brexit simply because of your own personal spite against the EU rather than consideration for the UK and it's people.

That is a very selfish standpoint.

You may have dreams of a mulyi-national system of society away from capitalism but you voted for a model which is more inward and closed off not really to achieve your dream but out of spite. Unless you can actually explain how brexit is going to lead to your desired end.

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2021, 10:53:57 am »
I voted Leave. But it was not for racist or nationalist reasons, as I am neither a racist, nor a nationalist.
Nor was it for reasons of being 'conned' by the Tories, right-wing press, or any other such facet.

My vote was not determined or affected by my personal circumstances. I don’t live in the UK (but I retain my right to vote in elections and referenda) so would not feel any personal impact of the outcome either way. MY vote was determined by a lengthy analysis of what the EU actually is, its origins and history, and its fundamental deep-lying foundational purpose as a protectionist

You mean you voted against something that was established to prevent another global war?

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2021, 10:57:32 am »
You believe in a world without borders but then voted for drawing the British border with the EU?

Just popped in here at random and saw someone who believes in reduced bureaucracy voted leave?

I know it's dangerous to see a random comment and take it out of context, but still I chuckled.  ;D
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Offline eddymunster

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #31 on: March 17, 2021, 10:59:15 am »
I voted Leave. But it was not for racist or nationalist reasons, as I am neither a racist, nor a nationalist.
Nor was it for reasons of being 'conned' by the Tories, right-wing press, or any other such facet.

My vote was not determined or affected by my personal circumstances. I don’t live in the UK (but I retain my right to vote in elections and referenda) so would not feel any personal impact of the outcome either way. MY vote was determined by a lengthy analysis of what the EU actually is, its origins and history, and its fundamental deep-lying foundational purpose as a protectionist establishment designed to ensure the survival of the French and German banks who first espoused it, and latterly, to protect the gravy-train of its undemocratic commission members. In my opinion, it is morally repugnant. And BECAUSE my life isn’t affected by it, I can take an objective view, and vote to leave said establishment - knowing that it won’t affect me. I recognise that many UK residents, will suffer as a result of the UK leaving the EU, and as such, on balance, would rather stay IN a rancid establishment, because it suits their personal circumstances. Absolutely understandable.

Whether the EU remains a solid establishment, one that benefits all of its members going forward, remains to be seen. I know of many who voted Remain who also sah about the EU that it “isn’t perfect”... i’d suggest that as a gross understatement. It is in drastic need of reform. Thus my vote for Brexit was not about the perceived benefits to the UK, nationalism, racism, jingoism, or anything else of that nature. It was, I guess, a protest vote, against the bureacratic shitshow that is the EU.

I AM an internationalist. I believe in a world without borders, with free trade, freedom of movement, and reduced bureaucracy. And in many ways, it seems like the EU embodies these characteristics. BUT IT DOES NOT. The EU created MORE borders, HARDER freedom of movement, and HIGHER tariffs, for those who are OUTSIDE of it, as you in Britain are now finding out. More deeply than that, however, is that the EU appears to embody these characteristics, but only when it suits it - only when it suits the financial institutions it champions, and the capitalist mentality it embodies and emboldens. As an establishment, it is fundamentally rotten - it needs huge reform, or it needs replacing, if it is to continue to be fit for purpose.
I am currency reading Varoufakis’s “Another Way” (I highly recomment it). A great take on the world that we COULD be living in. A shift away from the mutli-national ruled, capitalist society in which we currently live, and a move towards an international society with more socialist underpinnings. It’s a fascinating read, and one that may appear at first utopian, but when one can actually conceive that, perhaps, things CAN change, there is a future beyond capitalism, and that it is establishments like the EU, the European Central Bank, the IMF etc that are PREVENTING this “other way” from ever being accomplished, PERHAPS it can be seen that a vote against the EU, that undermines the EU, is a vote for the betterment of society as a whole.

Is it possible to perceive that there are OTHER reasons for voting Brexit, other than "you're a racist", or "you were conned"? Whenever I come across Brexit discussions on person, or in forums, it is always portrayed as a binary decision. But perhaps it is not two sides of the same coin, a binary decision, but rather, a different coin entirely - my perception of the EU, of Brexit, and of the consequences, is completely different to that which is usually espoused.

There IS an argument against the EU, and a future in the EU, if one removes oneself from the situation. (If one can). If one reads extensively on the origins of the EU, what it was, what it is, and what it may become. And to then decide that a long term prognosis for human society is a future outside of (or preferably WITHOUT altogether) establishments like the EU.

A Jack waving, Express reading, little Englander, I am not. And yet, I voted Brexit. How is this possible? Well, as I have explained, I think its all about about a sense of perspective.

This is backwards logic to me. You can think the EU is flawed AND still recognise the UK is better off in it. These are reasons to answer a no to a polling question of "do you like the EU" not a referendum deciding the future prosperity of the UK in the EU vs out of the EU.

And to do it all while you're not even going to feel the effects of it, is in my mind, nothing short of selfish shithousery. How the fuck can you vote to leave the EU on principle without considering the obvious strife and reduced standard of living you will cause to the people that are actually going to be affected by it.

You're not an internationalist, you're a fantasist.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2021, 11:01:49 am by eddymunster »
Brexit (n) - "The undefined being negotiated by the unprepared in order to get the unspecified for the uninformed."

Offline rob1966

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #32 on: March 17, 2021, 11:10:47 am »


Protest vote to fuck my kids and other peoples kids futures up, while you are all fine and dandy as you don't even like in the UK anymore. Thanks very much for that selfish decision.
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Offline ChaChaMooMoo

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #33 on: March 17, 2021, 11:29:58 am »
I voted Leave.

...

My vote was not determined or affected by my personal circumstances. I don’t live in the UK (but I retain my right to vote in elections and referenda) so would not feel any personal impact of the outcome either way. MY vote was determined by a lengthy analysis of what the EU actually is, its origins and history, and its fundamental deep-lying foundational purpose as a protectionist establishment designed to ensure the survival of the French and German banks who first espoused it, and latterly, to protect the gravy-train of its undemocratic commission members. In my opinion, it is morally repugnant. And BECAUSE my life isn’t affected by it, I can take an objective view, and vote to leave said establishment - knowing that it won’t affect me. I recognise that many UK residents, will suffer as a result of the UK leaving the EU, and as such, on balance, would rather stay IN a rancid establishment, because it suits their personal circumstances. Absolutely understandable.

...

There IS an argument against the EU, and a future in the EU, if one removes oneself from the situation. (If one can). If one reads extensively on the origins of the EU, what it was, what it is, and what it may become. And to then decide that a long term prognosis for human society is a future outside of (or preferably WITHOUT altogether) establishments like the EU.

I forgot to add. If you don't live within Britain boundaries are not affected in any way by the outcome of this referendum, strictly based on your one dimensioned analysis of EU, you voted to leave? How does that work? Please explain.

Sure there is some political agenda, some amount of protectionism and gravy train stops going on within the EU. But isn't that the main agenda of Brexit? How can you condemn one and call it morally repugnant, while voting to leave?

I am sorry but people who voted for Brexit, don't deserve the misery for its far too easy to fool people than to convince them that they are likely to be fooled. But they did vote to leave and the consequences of it are being felt by everyone, including those who wanted to remain.


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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2021, 11:50:45 am »
Protest vote to fuck my kids and other peoples kids futures up, while you are all fine and dandy as you don't even like in the UK anymore. Thanks very much for that selfish decision.

While implying multiple times that we're the selfish ones no less.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2021, 12:26:40 pm »
I voted Leave. But it was not for racist or nationalist reasons, as I am neither a racist, nor a nationalist.
Nor was it for reasons of being 'conned' by the Tories, right-wing press, or any other such facet.

My vote was not determined or affected by my personal circumstances. I don’t live in the UK (but I retain my right to vote in elections and referenda) so would not feel any personal impact of the outcome either way. MY vote was determined by a lengthy analysis of what the EU actually is, its origins and history, and its fundamental deep-lying foundational purpose as a protectionist establishment designed to ensure the survival of the French and German banks who first espoused it, and latterly, to protect the gravy-train of its undemocratic commission members. In my opinion, it is morally repugnant. And BECAUSE my life isn’t affected by it, I can take an objective view, and vote to leave said establishment - knowing that it won’t affect me. I recognise that many UK residents, will suffer as a result of the UK leaving the EU, and as such, on balance, would rather stay IN a rancid establishment, because it suits their personal circumstances. Absolutely understandable.

Whether the EU remains a solid establishment, one that benefits all of its members going forward, remains to be seen. I know of many who voted Remain who also sah about the EU that it “isn’t perfect”... i’d suggest that as a gross understatement. It is in drastic need of reform. Thus my vote for Brexit was not about the perceived benefits to the UK, nationalism, racism, jingoism, or anything else of that nature. It was, I guess, a protest vote, against the bureacratic shitshow that is the EU.

I AM an internationalist. I believe in a world without borders, with free trade, freedom of movement, and reduced bureaucracy. And in many ways, it seems like the EU embodies these characteristics. BUT IT DOES NOT. The EU created MORE borders, HARDER freedom of movement, and HIGHER tariffs, for those who are OUTSIDE of it, as you in Britain are now finding out. More deeply than that, however, is that the EU appears to embody these characteristics, but only when it suits it - only when it suits the financial institutions it champions, and the capitalist mentality it embodies and emboldens. As an establishment, it is fundamentally rotten - it needs huge reform, or it needs replacing, if it is to continue to be fit for purpose.
I am currency reading Varoufakis’s “Another Way” (I highly recomment it). A great take on the world that we COULD be living in. A shift away from the mutli-national ruled, capitalist society in which we currently live, and a move towards an international society with more socialist underpinnings. It’s a fascinating read, and one that may appear at first utopian, but when one can actually conceive that, perhaps, things CAN change, there is a future beyond capitalism, and that it is establishments like the EU, the European Central Bank, the IMF etc that are PREVENTING this “other way” from ever being accomplished, PERHAPS it can be seen that a vote against the EU, that undermines the EU, is a vote for the betterment of society as a whole.

Is it possible to perceive that there are OTHER reasons for voting Brexit, other than "you're a racist", or "you were conned"? Whenever I come across Brexit discussions on person, or in forums, it is always portrayed as a binary decision. But perhaps it is not two sides of the same coin, a binary decision, but rather, a different coin entirely - my perception of the EU, of Brexit, and of the consequences, is completely different to that which is usually espoused.

There IS an argument against the EU, and a future in the EU, if one removes oneself from the situation. (If one can). If one reads extensively on the origins of the EU, what it was, what it is, and what it may become. And to then decide that a long term prognosis for human society is a future outside of (or preferably WITHOUT altogether) establishments like the EU.

A Jack waving, Express reading, little Englander, I am not. And yet, I voted Brexit. How is this possible? Well, as I have explained, I think its all about about a sense of perspective.

Wow.

Thanks a lot.
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Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2021, 10:56:19 pm »
I voted Leave. But it was not for racist or nationalist reasons, as I am neither a racist, nor a nationalist.
Nor was it for reasons of being 'conned' by the Tories, right-wing press, or any other such facet.

My vote was not determined or affected by my personal circumstances. I don’t live in the UK (but I retain my right to vote in elections and referenda) so would not feel any personal impact of the outcome either way.




Words,lots and lots of words but they'd all get me banned.

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Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #37 on: March 17, 2021, 10:58:31 pm »
Protest vote to fuck my kids and other peoples kids futures up, while you are all fine and dandy as you don't even like in the UK anymore. Thanks very much for that selfish decision.


I bet he gets called a c*nt everyday in every language spoken in his adopted country.
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #38 on: March 17, 2021, 11:17:09 pm »



Words,lots and lots of words but they'd all get me banned.

We don't always see eye to eye on here, but I know these words you mean, and I think all of them too. 
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Offline surfer. Fuck you generator.

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Re: If you hear of hardship to a person or business because of Brexit..
« Reply #39 on: March 18, 2021, 12:20:55 am »
Re the kj999 post:
Nice demo again of why you need to filter people by both technical ability for a field and human quality before handing them power.

Plenty of guys who don't give a shit about you can weave beautiful sounding word salads.  A good few put in the work to master a field.  Even fewer combine accurate work with judgement,  empathy,  consideration and wanting the best possible for people, with action.

Nothing personal against the poster but if you're not bound by the consequences of your actions, you're not going to taste what's to come,  you should not have been given a vote.  It's a failure of the system that you were. The little Englander racist c*nts are far better than you.  They will share the same reality,  for better or worse,  and that is the starting point for building anything together. 



« Last Edit: March 18, 2021, 12:57:30 am by surfer. Fuck you generator. »