Topic: Doesn't matter who you vote for as long as it's for the right reasons!

[Welshred]

Starting to believe that the party is dead and needs to split more than I was before. Those further left aren't happy with those more centre left being in charge of the party and vice versa and each side are only interested in attacking each other rather than attacking the fucking Tories.

[TepidT2O]

https://twitter.com/RichardBurgon/status/1391383166569664521?s=20

I didn’t despise Corbyn or McDonnel… but I despise this man …

He’s contributed nothing to this world.

[jillcwhomever]

Starting to believe that the party is dead and needs to split more than I was before. Those further left aren't happy with those more centre left being in charge of the party and vice versa and each side are only interested in attacking each other rather than attacking the fucking Tories.

I have feared that for some time. It's a fantasy about Labour getting back into power while others are more interested in attacking people within their own party than the actual Government itself.

[The Real Rasta]

Also talk from the left of the party of a vote of no confidence and a leadership challenge. Wonder if those who were critical of Owen Smith doing it on here will also be critical of it now?

And of course the same applies for those who were perfectly fine with it back then, they should also be fine with it now 

Me personally, I think it was shit back then and it's shit now if it does happen as I believe it only affects the public's opinion of the party and indeed the leader negatively and of course the focus should be on the real enemy, the Tories.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Keiths drive white vans and Karen, Sharon and Tracey dance around their handbags.

The subject of much sneering by the over educated and under employed.

This ages you.

And me!

[Sammy5IsAlive]

https://twitter.com/RichardBurgon/status/1391383166569664521?s=20

And lo and behold the first reply to that tweet showing for me is talking about the "Likud labour party". But of course all the talk of anti-Semitism in Labour was made up by Blairites to get at the sainted Jeremy

[Dr. Beaker]

This ages you.

And me!

Well stop dancing around your handbag then.

[Clint Eastwood]

Starting to believe that the party is dead and needs to split more than I was before. Those further left aren't happy with those more centre left being in charge of the party and vice versa and each side are only interested in attacking each other rather than attacking the fucking Tories.

That’s it really. Rubbish state of affairs.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Education does not determine intelligence.

Who said it does? However, it certainly augments it (or it should do). To be frank, I am not sure of your point there.

[gazzam1963]

Hi Debs - to see where you might lie in all this, might be worth taking this quiz;


Edit - it's a bit American that one - I'll dig a better one out


Ok I think this is a good one;  https://www.politicalcompass.org/test

I was right bang the middle of the green square 😀

[B0151?]

Thing is there's always civil wars going on in the Tory Party too.  It's why we're in this post Brexit mess. Is it really that much different

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I was right bang the middle of the green square 😀

Apparantly Ghandi is a bit of a fascist compared to me

Gandy!

[John C]

I think I'm just a knobhead

You need your own box Andy.

[Dr. Beaker]

Thing is there's always civil wars going on in the Tory Party too.  It's why we're in this post Brexit mess.[/b]Is it really that much different[/b]

It is to the media.

[skipper757]

Thing is there's always civil wars going on in the Tory Party too.  It's why we're in this post Brexit mess. Is it really that much different

They've been achieving significantly better electoral results.  Infighting with 330 seats is better than infighting with 230 seats.

Labour's constant in-fighting will be portrayed as unprofessional and at times unelectable.  The Tories are just about palatable enough for a large portion of the population to view them as electable.  From this disadvantaged position, any Labour in-fighting just makes the Tories more of a default choice.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

You need your own box Andy.

[TheShanklyGates]

Looks like Tracy Brabin is going to win the West Yorkshire mayoralty. That'll be another tricky by-election for Labour in her Batley and Spen seat.

[TepidT2O]

Looks like Tracy Brabin is going to win the West Yorkshire mayoralty. That'll be another tricky by-election for Labour in her Batley and Spen seat.

I don’t think they stand a hope ….

[Red-Soldier]

Looks like Tracy Brabin is going to win the West Yorkshire mayoralty. That'll be another tricky by-election for Labour in her Batley and Spen seat.

Gammon central = No chance!

[TheShanklyGates]

60% Leave vote = No chance!

You were right before the edit

[Red-Soldier]

You were right before the edit

 

Re-edited

[B0151?]

They've been achieving significantly better electoral results.  Infighting with 330 seats is better than infighting with 230 seats.

Labour's constant in-fighting will be portrayed as unprofessional and at times unelectable.  The Tories are just about palatable enough for a large portion of the population to view them as electable.  From this disadvantaged position, any Labour in-fighting just makes the Tories more of a default choice.

For sure. But I just don't really see how the answer is splitting into two parties. I just mean to say internal dispute is not like an exclusive Labour thing if the Tories are going through leaders even while in power.

The reality is unfortunately this is a country that mostly votes the Tories in, occasionally the other party. Can't really see how if you split the other party up that mostly doesn't just become always.

[Zeb]

Impressive missing this in the selection interview.

The Conservative likely to be Wiltshire’s Police & Crime Commissioner has been told by Tory HQ that he can't take the job if he wins Monday's election count. Jonathon Seed is "disbarred" over an old conviction for drink driving.

(via BBC's Dan O'Brien)

[Sangria]

For sure. But I just don't really see how the answer is splitting into two parties. I just mean to say internal dispute is not like an exclusive Labour thing if the Tories are going through leaders even while in power.

The reality is unfortunately this is a country that mostly votes the Tories in, occasionally the other party. Can't really see how if you split the other party up that mostly doesn't just become always.

The Tories faced the same problem in the 2000s that Labour now faces. Their base did not reflect the national vote. The famous speech from Theresa May was the first step towards realigning. The problem with Labour, that the Tories did not have, is that the base sees itself as in the right on all matters, and will not realign. And unlike the Tories, the Labour base would rather the opponents stay in national power than adjust.

May's speech happened 5 years into the Labour government, under Ian Duncan Smith. 11 years into the Tory government, and the Labour base still has no intention of realigning, but is still pushing to frame the argument on the left to suit itself rather than the country.

[ShakaHislop]

The Tories faced the same problem in the 2000s that Labour now faces. Their base did not reflect the national vote. The famous speech from Theresa May was the first step towards realigning. The problem with Labour, that the Tories did not have, is that the base sees itself as in the right on all matters, and will not realign. And unlike the Tories, the Labour base would rather the opponents stay in national power than adjust.

May's speech happened 5 years into the Labour government, under Ian Duncan Smith. 11 years into the Tory government, and the Labour base still has no intention of realigning, but is still pushing to frame the argument on the left to suit itself rather than the country.

Give it a fucking rest.

[Commie Bobbie]

Meanwhile, The Tories are going to Gerrymander results going forward like the corrupt bastards they are.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/09/government-to-change-english-voting-system-after-labour-mayoral-victories

Ministers are pressing ahead with changes to electoral law that could make it easier for Conservatives to win future mayoral elections, as Labour claimed 10 of the 13 posts being contested across England.

The UK home secretary, Priti Patel, has already unveiled plans to switch all future English mayoral elections from the existing supplementary vote system – in which the public ranks their two favourite candidates – to the first past the post system used in elections to the House of Commons.

Prof Tony Travers, of the London School of Economics, said analysis of Thursday’s polls suggested this change could open a potential route to victory for the Tories in cities such as London.

“It’s likely that first past the post would make it somewhat easier for the Conservatives to win if they could come up with a really good candidate,” he said.

Labour’s Sadiq Khan won the London mayoral contest comfortably against his Conservative rival, Shaun Bailey, once voters’ second preferences were taken into account. But Khan beat Bailey by only 40% to 35% on first preference votes, as some leftwing former Labour voters shifted to the Greens and other smaller parties.

Travers said Labour faced the joint challenge of finding a message that lets them take on the Conservatives at a national level while also stopping leftwing voters in major cities moving to the Greens.

“We’re back to the usual problem of the fragmentation of the left, while the centre-right vote is much better at holding itself together,” he said.

Despite Labour’s dominance in London, there are signs that the decades-long Conservative decline in the capital may have been arrested or gone into reverse. In some areas of the capital, Bailey outperformed Khan on first-preference votes, while the Tories have also been buoyed by growing support from Hindu and Sikh communities.

The government will have to pass fresh legislation to change the voting system, which would also affect elections for police and crime commissioners. Labour has pledged to oppose the changes but the Conservatives have a large majority in the Commons and the party is expected to rely on a vague manifesto commitment to the first past the post system as a justification to push it through the Lords.

Although Labour won most mayoral elections across England easily – with Andy Burnham receiving a landslide 67% of votes in Greater Manchester – under the new voting system it would be likely to lose others such as the Cambridgeshire and Peterborough mayoralty.

There is evidence that voters are confused by the use of the supplementary vote system. Almost 5% of ballots cast in this year’s mayor of London election were rejected, mainly because voters had voted for too many candidates.

Conservative candidates won two of the mayoralties that held elections on Thursday: Andy Street in the West Midlands and Ben Houchen with a landslide in Tees Valley.

Street and Houchen narrowly won against the odds in traditional Labour-voting areas when their positions were first contested in 2017. However, this week both candidates were reelected with substantially increased majorities, having trumpeted their ability to win funds for their local area from a central Tory government in Westminster.

Elsewhere, the incumbent Labour mayors Steve Rotheram, Marvin Rees, Norma Redfearn, Paul Dennett and Ros Jones retained their respective roles in the Liverpool city region, Bristol, North Tyneside, Salford and Doncaster respectively.

[TheShanklyGates]

There is evidence that voters are confused by the use of the supplementary vote system. Almost 5% of ballots cast in this year’s mayor of London election were rejected, mainly because voters had voted for too many candidates.

I know we're not supposed to say it but some of the electorate really are absolute fucking morons.

[Circa1892]

Gammon central = No chance!

Is Batley and Spen Gammon Central?

[diggerling!]

The Tories faced the same problem in the 2000s that Labour now faces. Their base did not reflect the national vote. The famous speech from Theresa May was the first step towards realigning. The problem with Labour, that the Tories did not have, is that the base sees itself as in the right on all matters, and will not realign. And unlike the Tories, the Labour base would rather the opponents stay in national power than adjust.

May's speech happened 5 years into the Labour government, under Ian Duncan Smith. 11 years into the Tory government, and the Labour base still has no intention of realigning, but is still pushing to frame the argument on the left to suit itself rather than the country.

This is the sort of top-down bullshit that has got them into this mess. Democratising the party should be the sole aim for Labour in the short term.

[ShakaHislop]

Meanwhile, The Tories are going to Gerrymander results going forward like the corrupt bastards they are.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/09/government-to-change-english-voting-system-after-labour-mayoral-victories

To be fair, there are some on the left who want to change the voting system for general elections for the same reason.

[TheShanklyGates]

To be fair, there are some on the left who want to change the voting system for general elections for the same reason.

It's not for the same reason though is it.

[ShakaHislop]

It's not for the same reason though is it.

To make it easier for their side to win? Yes, it is.

[Elmo!]

I thought the Tories believed you need a clear manifesto pledge and over 50% of the electorate to vote for you in order to make constitutional changes? Plus a lot of the mayors were put in place a lot less than a generation ago.

[So… Howard Philips]

This ages you.

And me!

At least I didn't mention the white high heels.

[Wild Romany Boy]

I tell you what, if Sangria had a tough dump in the morning, he'd blame it on the 'liberal left' of the Labour party wanting equality.

[TheShanklyGates]

To make it easier for their side to win? Yes, it is.

That's bad faith bullshit and you know it.

[Sangria]

I tell you what, if Sangria had a tough dump in the morning, he'd blame it on the 'liberal left' of the Labour party wanting equality.

Why? I'm one of the liberal left. However, I recognise that I am on the leftward margins of the UK population in this regard, and that most people don't think like me. That's why parties I vote for lose in elections.

[afc tukrish]

I tell you what, if Sangria had a tough dump in the morning, he'd blame it on the 'liberal left' of the Labour party wanting equality.

Or for lacking fibre...

[ShakaHislop]

That's bad faith bullshit and you know it.

You genuinely think if either of Labour, the Lib Dems or the Greens had been winning general elections via FPTP in recent years, there'd be the same amount of talk there currently is about "progressive alliances" or changing to PR out of some noble dedication to the principle?

[TheShanklyGates]

You genuinely think if either of Labour, the Lib Dems or the Greens had been winning general elections via FPTP in recent years, there'd be the same amount of talk there currently is about "progressive alliances" or changing to PR out of some noble dedication to the principle?

Those who actually support electoral reform (i.e. not those who just pay lip service to the idea) support it regardless of who it will benefit at any particular time. The Labour party leadership over the years has never backed it because FPTP benefits them.