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Tory Christmas Party

Nothing like a good old knees up!
They should apologise and come clean
Johnson should resign
The front bench should resign
The entire party should resign
The entire party should be put in an Elon Musk rocket and fired off to jupiter with 2 packets of hula hoops and a pot noodle
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Author Topic: Doesn't matter who you vote for as long as it's for the right reasons!  (Read 1164587 times)

Offline west_london_red

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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18240 on: May 8, 2021, 11:43:54 pm »
Surprised Bailey got so many after he pitched up in Watford to save the closure of its station.  Oblivious to the fact the station wasn’t under threat and probably not realising Watford’s not in London.

There was talk of closing the station a few years ago, interestingly thats why it didn’t get wifi when it was rolled out to almost all stations after the Olympics that didn’t have it already. But we put wifi in there about 2 years ago, so from then on I assumed it was common knowledge that the station wouldn’t be closed.
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Offline Billy Elliot

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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18241 on: May 8, 2021, 11:44:29 pm »
From a power structure point of view I absolutely get it - its just another strip of authority that can be argued shouldn't be there. I'm not a fan of what we have down here - we have the county council, we have District councils and we have town councils which for me seems far too much. Counties I get, but from there I'd strip one of the others.

But for Labour - I'm intrigued to see people like the Salford mayor get involved because his 'sensible socialism' seems to be going down well, same in Preston - is that just a exclusive thing for those particular cities? Lets find out - there needs to be - fuck I hate this term - 'joined up thinking' top to bottom of any organisation - a political party is no sodding different. We're can't just become the Lib Dems and be something for every fucker.

Yeah, I'd agree with most of that. The Mayor system at least gives a platform for people to be heard. But I think it ends up being even more beuaracratic.

And I'd be surprised if you don't have Parish Councils as well.

I'd replace them all with regional Soviets Commie  ;D
« Last Edit: May 8, 2021, 11:46:00 pm by Billy Elliot »
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Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18242 on: May 8, 2021, 11:55:05 pm »
My ingrained Northern common sense and nous automatically enables me to avoid such people when I visit that there London.

I know I moan a lot about Laaandan and Suthurners quite a lot on here, but I actually have worked there on and off for quite a while and lived there while doing so and not all of it is as bad as I might have made out.

Plenty of great people down there and across the country.


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Offline bornandbRED

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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18243 on: May 8, 2021, 11:57:26 pm »
Don’t really see any way in which Starmer hasn’t been a disappointment really. He’s better than Boris in PMQs and better than Jeremy Corbyn. Both of which you’d hope most people would be. He stays as there are no realistic alternatives - partly due to having a wet and weak shadow cabinet.

Not an ounce of talent, brains or personality in that shadow cabinet, to be fair to Keith. Contrast with some of the bruisers involved in the last Labour government and it’s night and day. 

Offline Billy Elliot

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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18244 on: May 9, 2021, 12:08:18 am »
I know I moan a lot about Laaandan and Suthurners quite a lot on here, but I actually have worked there on and off for quite a while and lived there while doing so and not all of it is as bad as I might have made out.

Plenty of great people down there and across the country.


But I didn't say that. You didn't see me? Roight?

As an exiled Scouser, there are a lot of c*nts in London, but it's a big place. And for every c*nt there's a sound person. Bit like back home or anywhere else to be honest. I'm always telling Sarfeners that every Manc is a c*nt.

I keep it hush that I've got Manc mates.    *Mod-please delete, pretty please*
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Offline Dr. Beaker

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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18245 on: May 9, 2021, 12:15:48 am »
Not an ounce of talent, brains or personality in that shadow cabinet, to be fair to Keith. Contrast with some of the bruisers involved in the last Labour government and it’s night and day. 
It's not only the opposition benches. There's not a big hitter in the whole house. The quality of our MP's seems to plummet after every election. There seems to be very few who speak with authority and command the respect of the whole house - and the only ones who come close are on the Labour benches in Benn and Cooper. Maybe a slight exaggeration there.
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Offline mickeydocs

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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18246 on: May 9, 2021, 12:20:10 am »
As an exiled Scouser, there are a lot of c*nts in London, but it's a big place. And for every c*nt there's a sound person. Bit like back home or anywhere else to be honest. I'm always telling Sarfeners that every Manc is a c*nt.

I keep it hush that I've got Manc mates.    *Mod-please delete, pretty please*

Tribalism, like Nationalism, is the ultimate stupidity. In my experience there are nice people and horrible people, with plenty in between, in all colours, nations, towns, and right down to your very own house.

Disliking someone because of the street, town or country they were born in usually suggests a lack of exposure, a lack of opportunity to get to know people from different backgrounds. One of the things I love about the UK (I was born and raised in Ireland) is the fact that differences are often respected. Not always, but often respected.

Diversity is great. Tribalism is backward. That's my world view.
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Offline Sangria

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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18247 on: May 9, 2021, 12:27:29 am »
From a power structure point of view I absolutely get it - its just another strip of authority that can be argued shouldn't be there. I'm not a fan of what we have down here - we have the county council, we have District councils and we have town councils which for me seems far too much. Counties I get, but from there I'd strip one of the others.

But for Labour - I'm intrigued to see people like the Salford mayor get involved because his 'sensible socialism' seems to be going down well, same in Preston - is that just a exclusive thing for those particular cities? Lets find out - there needs to be - fuck I hate this term - 'joined up thinking' top to bottom of any organisation - a political party is no sodding different. We're can't just become the Lib Dems and be something for every fucker.

How can there be joined up thinking when a significant section of the party's (former) support wants cultural issues to be the litmus test of their support, when that benefits the Tories in any national debate? The areas where Labour did (relatively) well in these elections were areas where the economic argument was to the fore. When the economic argument is put forward well, even socially conservative voters can get onboard and vote Labour. When the cultural argument is put forward, whether it's put forward well or not, socially conservative voters automatically turn away from Labour, often to the Tories.
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Offline Sangria

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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18248 on: May 9, 2021, 12:31:33 am »
It's not only the opposition benches. There's not a big hitter in the whole house. The quality of our MP's seems to plummet after every election. There seems to be very few who speak with authority and command the respect of the whole house - and the only ones who come close are on the Labour benches in Benn and Cooper. Maybe a slight exaggeration there.

Any link to the previous Labour government was held to be a black mark by the supporters of the last Labour leader. Blairites, centrists, and all that. You can see that same argument put against the Lib Dems, with the true leftists saying that there needs to be a clean break from the tainted earlier administration. Of course, that benefits the Corbyn faction which by its nature has no administrative experience of any kind, whilst depriving the opposition of any substantial experience or expertise whatsoever.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
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http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

Offline Sangria

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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18249 on: May 9, 2021, 12:32:29 am »
Not an ounce of talent, brains or personality in that shadow cabinet, to be fair to Keith. Contrast with some of the bruisers involved in the last Labour government and it’s night and day.

Why do people call Starmer "Keith"? Is this a social media meme thing?
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
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Offline Elmo!

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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18250 on: May 9, 2021, 12:36:42 am »
Why do people call Starmer "Keith"? Is this a social media meme thing?

I think it is because Keith is kind of a bland and boring name. No offe se to any Keith's out there.

I could be wrong though.

Offline Sangria

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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18251 on: May 9, 2021, 12:42:22 am »
I think it is because Keith is kind of a bland and boring name. No offe se to any Keith's out there.

I could be wrong though.

Why not call him John? Or better still, why not call him by his actual name, rather than one that people make up? And more to the point, why is there such consistency in people calling him by that name? Does anyone know which social media outlet first coined this meme?
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Offline KillieRed

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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18252 on: May 9, 2021, 01:03:29 am »
Why not call him John? Or better still, why not call him by his actual name, rather than one that people make up? And more to the point, why is there such consistency in people calling him by that name? Does anyone know which social media outlet first coined this meme?

I’m pretty sure it’s a Gen-X thing.

“We” are in charge now so the Keiths, Karens, Sharons & Traceys are the objects of derision.

Fuck the Darrens too.
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Offline Elmo!

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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18253 on: May 9, 2021, 01:05:53 am »
Why not call him John? Or better still, why not call him by his actual name, rather than one that people make up? And more to the point, why is there such consistency in people calling him by that name? Does anyone know which social media outlet first coined this meme?

Presumably because Keith sounds like Keir....

And presumably they don't use his real name as that misses the point.

I'm not defending it or use it myself. It's a pretty mild nickname that isn't really worth getting yourself too wound up over though.

Take a step back.

Offline west_london_red

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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18254 on: May 9, 2021, 01:07:32 am »
Any link to the previous Labour government was held to be a black mark by the supporters of the last Labour leader. Blairites, centrists, and all that. You can see that same argument put against the Lib Dems, with the true leftists saying that there needs to be a clean break from the tainted earlier administration. Of course, that benefits the Corbyn faction which by its nature has no administrative experience of any kind, whilst depriving the opposition of any substantial experience or expertise whatsoever.

Give it a rest, the quality of MPs was poor long before Corbyns time as leader, that’s how Corbyn got in as leader. Burnham, Cooper, Kendall for all their experience ran incredibly poor leadership campaigns.
« Last Edit: May 9, 2021, 01:17:19 am by west_london_red »
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Offline B0151?

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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18255 on: May 9, 2021, 01:10:23 am »
It's a bit mad the boring tag considering his predecessor was an old white bloke called Jeremy who takes photos of drains for fun

Offline Zeb

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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18256 on: May 9, 2021, 01:20:38 am »
It's a bit mad the boring tag considering his predecessor was an old white bloke called Jeremy who takes photos of drains for fun

;D

Think the Starmer one started with a misspelling of Keir and then only got traction because it got attention. I find it a useful way to filter opinions so grateful for it.


---

Quality of MPs is a weird one because of the rapid shifts in directions of the parties. Labour do have an issue in who wants to be an MP because the people who have choices aren't going to think being sat in opposition for a couple of decades is a great idea and the factional shens around selections doesn't result in people reaching shortlists purely on merit. Look at how many ex-staffers to Corbyn and McCluskey are in Parliament now. And they didn't start it either.
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Offline bornandbRED

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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18257 on: May 9, 2021, 02:53:59 am »
Keith is an apt name for a guy with the personality of a slipper. 

It's not only the opposition benches. There's not a big hitter in the whole house. The quality of our MP's seems to plummet after every election. There seems to be very few who speak with authority and command the respect of the whole house - and the only ones who come close are on the Labour benches in Benn and Cooper. Maybe a slight exaggeration there.

It’s either thickos on the Labour benches or a bunch of gaslighting nationalists on the right. The decline is stupendous. I guess the private sector pays better.

Offline TheShanklyGates

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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18258 on: May 9, 2021, 03:14:16 am »
Surely it's just because Keith would be a common autocorrect when typing Keir on a phone? Only takes a few people to make the same mistake before social media will notice and meme it into the ground.
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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18259 on: May 9, 2021, 08:28:25 am »
Why do people call Starmer "Keith"? Is this a social media meme thing?

It's probably because they've never heard the name 'Keir' before. Though that says quite a lot about someone purporting to be on the Left on politics. 
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Offline reddebs

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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18260 on: May 9, 2021, 09:45:25 am »
;D

Think the Starmer one started with a misspelling of Keir and then only got traction because it got attention. I find it a useful way to filter opinions so grateful for it.

Predictive text is my guess.


Offline TepidT2O

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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18261 on: May 9, 2021, 09:52:32 am »
Isn’t this just all……..

A reshuffle…?

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Offline Zeb

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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18262 on: May 9, 2021, 10:20:33 am »
It would seem so, although it's nice to see all the Socialist Campaign Group, at least those currently in the party and not on bail, showing they've re-remembered how to do the Sunday morning tv rounds.

Curious one cos the framing is 'Starmer has failed' when the evidence is of small steps towards recovery. I think the clown left are trying use it to wedge themselves back into relevancy, while from what I'm seeing and hearing the soft left are taking the lesson that even more radical changes are needed to step away from the clown left and a failed assessment of the problem.
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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18263 on: May 9, 2021, 10:57:06 am »
Why do people call Starmer "Keith"? Is this a social media meme thing?
I think it is because Keith is kind of a bland and boring name. No offe se to any Keith's out there.

I could be wrong though.
Keith is an apt name for a guy with the personality of a slipper. 
...
Funny what springs into peoples' heads when they hear the name Keith.



Must be a generational thing?
« Last Edit: May 9, 2021, 10:58:54 am by Red Raw »

Offline B0151?

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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18264 on: May 9, 2021, 11:05:29 am »
It's an interesting combo of "this is a kneejerk reaction from Starmer" and "this election is proof Starmer has no hope" right now...

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18265 on: May 9, 2021, 11:07:28 am »
It's an interesting combo of "this is a kneejerk reaction from Starmer" and "this election is proof Starmer has no hope" right now...
In reality, I think this is briefing by Rayner to get the job she wants….
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Offline OOS

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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18266 on: May 9, 2021, 11:13:34 am »
It would seem so, although it's nice to see all the Socialist Campaign Group, at least those currently in the party and not on bail, showing they've re-remembered how to do the Sunday morning tv rounds.

Curious one cos the framing is 'Starmer has failed' when the evidence is of small steps towards recovery. I think the clown left are trying use it to wedge themselves back into relevancy, while from what I'm seeing and hearing the soft left are taking the lesson that even more radical changes are needed to step away from the clown left and a failed assessment of the problem.

Starmer has butchered this reshuffle, thats on him. Same with poor campaign. The political class are loving this reshuffle drama however. It makes them relevant. It's generating clicks on twitter and Web pages. I doubt no one outside political social media will give a fuck, Labour does need changes and I welcome them. A leader needs to make difficult decisions instead of being passive, something Labour tends to run away from.

The SCG have got a nerve, all singing for the same hymn sheet 'we don't know what he stands for... reminds me of 17-19 in regards to a certain someone and the B word... it's like leftist bingo with the same old shouts, and not understanding why people are voting Blue. 2019 Unite ran a campaign telling voters to 'come home to Labour', and they did go home, to the Tory Party.

Mad to think we are chipping away at the 'blue wall' in the south east. Some good Labour wins there.
« Last Edit: May 9, 2021, 11:55:25 am by OOS »
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Offline Sangria

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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18267 on: May 9, 2021, 11:26:27 am »
Starmer has butchered this reshuffle, thats on him. Same with poor campaign. The political class are loving this reshuffle drama however. It makes them relevant. It's generating clicks on twitter and Web pages. I doubt no one outside political social media will give a fuck, Labour does need changes and I welcome them. A leader needs to make difficult decisions instead of being passive, something Labour tends to run away from.

The SCG have got a nerve, all singing for the same hymn sheet 'we don't know what he stands for... reminds me of 17-19 in regards to a certain someone and the B word... it's like leftist bingo with the same old shouts, and not understanding why people are voting Blue. Unite ran a campaign telling voters to 'come home to Labour', and they did go home, to the Tory Party.

Mad to think we are chipping away at the 'blue wall' in the south east. Some good Labour wins there.

They want to frame the argument in such a way that they hold the upper hand and maximise the chances of regaining control of the party.
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Offline Linudden

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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18268 on: May 9, 2021, 11:43:17 am »
The big problem for Labour is that they're playing the popular vote game rather than the constituency one. Starmer is bound to give them landslides in London and university cities but judging by what happened in Hartlepool and Tees Valley they might actually really lose the north for the first time in 2024. In effect, having fewer seats than the Tories if the NW, NE and YH are combined. The NW is still going to be Labour because of GM and Merseyside but along with urban Yorkshire and Newcastle these areas are set to be red islands in a sea of blue if this keeps up.

Now Labour have abandoned the economic populism that still rendered good numbers in the rural north in 2015 then okay in 2017 and now appear to be fishing for Lib Dem voters and suburban Tories more than anything else. Their problem is that unlike in the US, suburban voters departing the right-wing can choose red or yellow in Britain and vote splitting will be a serious issue in more than one place.

They're stuck between a rock and a hard place. I looked at the London Tory constituencies and there's no reason why Labour can't pick up 8-10 of those in the next election. The problem though is that at the same time the Tories may pick up even more than that considering there are nine seats in Barnsley, Chesterfield, Doncaster, Hull (E & W), Rotherham, Stockton (N), Sunderland and the final remaining seats in Walsall (S) and Wolverhampton (SE) where the Labour vote share is crash landing. That'd mean all those gains are offset immediately. Then add that Yvette Cooper's seat along with other rural mining belt areas are destined to go the way of Bolsover sooner rather than later and the results are obvious. There are also specific "Brexit seats" in Bradford (S) and Sheffield (SE) in danger.

Unless Labour find a way to balance economic leftist populism without falling down the Momentum path they are in a hopeless spot. Already in 2017 the required PV lead for the Tories to gain a majority was at 4 points and that will further lower in the future at this rate. Especially if Scotland leaves. If that happens then the Tories might lose the PV and still gain a majority like Labour did if England was a separate entity in 2005. Actually a landslide in spite of fewer votes! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_England)

That's another big elephant in the room: if Labour win power it will be through a confidence and supply deal with the SNP for a minority cabinet and a triumphant Sturgeon would then be more likely to win the referendum if Scottish Labour unionists have been thrown under the bus by the Prime Minister. Then Scotland get independent in the middle of parliament and a Tory PM gets installed by default.

From a political strategy standpoint Labour are in a deep trap right now and it's very hard to see it ending well for them. The Tories control the constituency boundaries and they won't change what works for them. They are also doing it in the very core areas that carried Blair in three elections back when much of the Midlands and nearly all of the north were safe Labour territories.

Some people here are bullish about Labour going on the attack in the south, but let's be honest here. The south is right-wing economically when outside of inner cities. There's a reason Lib Dems have done better than Labour in those areas in the past. Reading West to go Labour eventually? Probably. Still, looking at Labour getting battered in both seats in Bournemouth and having lost Stevenage by 15 points last time is a reminder of how far they have to climb in the south to make up ground. They can gain some in between Brighton and Southampton but besides that there's not much in the south to pick up.
« Last Edit: May 9, 2021, 12:13:39 pm by Linudden »
Linudden.

Offline Sangria

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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18269 on: May 9, 2021, 12:07:17 pm »
The big problem for Labour is that they're playing the popular vote game rather than the constituency one. Starmer is bound to give them landslides in London and university cities but judging by what happened in Hartlepool and Tees Valley they might actually really lose the north for the first time in 2024. In effect, having fewer seats than the Tories if the NW, NE and YH are combined. The NW is still going to be Labour because of GM and Merseyside but along with urban Yorkshire and Newcastle these areas are set to be red islands in a sea of blue if this keeps up.

Now Labour have abandoned the economic populism that still rendered good numbers in the rural north in 2015 then okay in 2017 and now appear to be fishing for Lib Dem voters and suburban Tories more than anything else. Their problem is that unlike in the US, suburban voters departing the right-wing can choose red or yellow in Britain and vote splitting will be a serious issue in more than one place.

They're stuck between a rock and a hard place. I looked at the London Tory constituencies and there's no reason why Labour can't pick up 8-10 of those in the next election. The problem though is that at the same time the Tories may pick up even more than that considering there are nine seats in Barnsley, Chesterfield, Doncaster, Hull (E & W), Rotherham, Stockton (N), Sunderland and the final remaining seats in Walsall (S) and Wolverhampton (SE) where the Labour vote share is crash landing. That'd mean all those gains are offset immediately. Then add that Yvette Cooper's seat along with other rural mining belt areas are destined to go the way of Bolsover sooner rather than later and the results are obvious. There are also specific "Brexit seats" in Bradford (S) and Sheffield (SE) in danger.

Unless Labour find a way to balance economic leftist populism without falling down the Momentum path they are in a hopeless spot. Already in 2017 the required PV lead for the Tories to gain a majority was at 4 points and that will further lower in the future at this rate. Especially if Scotland leaves. If that happens then the Tories might lose the PV and still gain a majority like Labour did if England was a separate entity in 2005. Actually a landslide in spite of fewer votes! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_England)

That's another big elephant in the room: if Labour win power it will be through a confidence and supply deal with the SNP for a minority cabinet and a triumphant Sturgeon would then be more likely to win the referendum if Scottish Labour unionists have been thrown under the bus by the Prime Minister. Then Scotland get independent in the middle of parliament and a Tory PM gets installed by default.

From a political strategy standpoint Labour are in a deep trap right now and it's very hard to see it ending well for them. The Tories control the constituency boundaries and they won't change what works for them. They are also doing it in the very core areas that carried Blair in three elections back when much of the Midlands and nearly all of the north were safe Labour territories.

I know what won't work. Defining the party in cultural liberal terms will turn off the marginal voters, as has been shown again and again. The argument to be made has to be economic, and it has to be local-centric.
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Offline Linudden

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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18270 on: May 9, 2021, 12:29:21 pm »
I know what won't work. Defining the party in cultural liberal terms will turn off the marginal voters, as has been shown again and again. The argument to be made has to be economic, and it has to be local-centric.

Increasing the preparedness and surplus capacity of the NHS, pledging to spend more resources on the actual care rather than bureaucracy, holding the Tories to account why the NHS got so overwhelmed when they had 10 years to prepare it and a more progressive tax system where Labour actually would propose tax cuts for the working poor in exchange of hikes for the wealthy would be the only way they could quickly come back.

Instead I have no idea what Starmer even wants to do. He's actually made the Tories run away with the NHS flag even in the wake of more deaths per capita than anywhere in Northern Europe because he's that incompetent. It's baffling.
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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18271 on: May 9, 2021, 12:32:22 pm »
I know what won't work. Defining the party in cultural liberal terms will turn off the marginal voters, as has been shown again and again. The argument to be made has to be economic, and it has to be local-centric.
Will it?  The current Tory party introduced gay marriage, has openly gay ministers and ministers from a range of ethnic backgrounds.

They are the most culturally liberal government weve ever had in many ways.

I just think it’s about how you deal with it myself.  People don’t like being preached at. And actions speak louder than words.
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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18272 on: May 9, 2021, 12:40:24 pm »
Will it?  The current Tory party introduced gay marriage, has openly gay ministers and ministers from a range of ethnic backgrounds.

They are the most culturally liberal government weve ever had in many ways.

I just think it’s about how you deal with it myself.  People don’t like being preached at. And actions speak louder than words.

Yet if you go on social media you will find a lot of resentment still about gays being allowed to be married, I would guess its mainly from "older" people but they are still only going to vote Tory. The clown is especially popular with some of the older people as well. I am sure he could do pretty much anything and they would still vote Tory regardless. 
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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18273 on: May 9, 2021, 12:40:39 pm »
Will it?  The current Tory party introduced gay marriage, has openly gay ministers and ministers from a range of ethnic backgrounds.

They are the most culturally liberal government weve ever had in many ways.

I just think it’s about how you deal with it myself.  People don’t like being preached at. And actions speak louder than words.

Tory governments get much more leeway than the Labour opposition.
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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18274 on: May 9, 2021, 12:42:02 pm »
Yet if you go on social media you will find a lot of resentment still about gays being allowed to be married, I would guess its mainly from "older" people but they are still only going to vote Tory. The clown is especially popular with some of the older people as well. I am sure he could do pretty much anything and they would still vote Tory regardless.

If you go by Twitter, you would have expected a huge result for Alba (using an exampel I am familiar with).... it is filled with a very vocal minority.

It is very unrepresentative of the wider population.

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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18275 on: May 9, 2021, 12:42:19 pm »
Increasing the preparedness and surplus capacity of the NHS, pledging to spend more resources on the actual care rather than bureaucracy, holding the Tories to account why the NHS got so overwhelmed when they had 10 years to prepare it and a more progressive tax system where Labour actually would propose tax cuts for the working poor in exchange of hikes for the wealthy would be the only way they could quickly come back.

Instead I have no idea what Starmer even wants to do. He's actually made the Tories run away with the NHS flag even in the wake of more deaths per capita than anywhere in Northern Europe because he's that incompetent. It's baffling.

The first step to questioning why the Tories have allowed the NHS to rot would be to highlight the good position it was in during the last Labour government. A significant portion of the Labour party would rather have perpetual Tory government than admit that the last Labour government did good things.
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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18276 on: May 9, 2021, 12:44:11 pm »
Yet if you go on social media you will find a lot of resentment still about gays being allowed to be married, I would guess its mainly from "older" people but they are still only going to vote Tory. The clown is especially popular with some of the older people as well. I am sure he could do pretty much anything and they would still vote Tory regardless. 
Agreed, the older Tory base is still quite racist and homophobic (as a generalisation).  They would also bring back hanging in a heart beat.

Johnson is odd, in many ways his track record is of being very liberal. But then you throw into that racist and homophobic quips and that he will abandon any value at a whim if it gets him votes…. He’s a very odd mix
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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18277 on: May 9, 2021, 12:44:21 pm »
Tory governments get much more leeway than the Labour opposition.

We are not helping ourselves though. We have turned into professional snipers as a party who just spend endless time criticising the government on social media yet not putting forward anything alternative. I like my MP Angela Eagle for example , but all she does all day seemingly is find anti-government posts and retweets them. We need to be seen doing more than that.
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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18278 on: May 9, 2021, 12:49:50 pm »
We are not helping ourselves though. We have turned into professional snipers as a party who just spend endless time criticising the government on social media yet not putting forward anything alternative. I like my MP Angela Eagle for example , but all she does all day seemingly is find anti-government posts and retweets them. We need to be seen doing more than that.

Social media is where the Labour base is. Momentum built their influence on this realisation. Unfortunately, as we now know, social media tends towards echo chambers. And while Momentum and fellow sympathisers are all powerful in their left wing echo chamber, the right wing echo chamber is bigger on a national level.
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Re: The RedGlen obviously titled Politics Thread. Politics? In here, son..
« Reply #18279 on: May 9, 2021, 12:50:25 pm »
Isn’t this just all……..

A reshuffle…?
Sounds a bit benign that. Are you sure? Surely there is some kind of Machiavellian shape-shifting puppet master in the background!?
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