Topic: PL: Everton 0 vs. Liverpool 0

[David in Edinburgh]

I'd have Coleman here. He's mustard.

What makes you think he can write?

[Kenny's Jacket]

I don't pay attention to that level as a predictor of future performance, though - it's NOTORIOUSLY unreliable. However, the top scorer was Ricardo Orsolini. Solanke scored 4 goals, along with some others whose names wouldn't be setting the world alight yet. He played very well in that tournament that I remember (outwith his winning of the Golden Ball), but he also played in a more traditional system that didn't rely on Gegenpressing and one-touch play.

I'm not saying he's a bad player. I'm saying he's a reactive one, which means that he's not looking around the field before the ball comes to him - he gets the ball, THEN decides what he's going to do. This means if there is nothing immediately "On" in his line of sight, he'll try to dribble his way out, or he'll make a bad pass, or he'll lose the ball. For a pressing side with quick transitional one-touch attacking, he needs to be WAY more thoughtful, way more observant. It's one thing to be doing it against teams of his similarly inexperienced peers. To do it at the top level with veterans of top talent? He needs to be WAY better. And quickly.

Ta for the detailed reply mate. Always had in my head he was top scorer, but was in fact golden ball, not boot winner.

[RedForeverTT]

Today just highlighted for me our lack of creativity in the middle of the park which doesn't really get noticed when the 3 amigos are played together....also just noticed it today with VVD trying his luck with a FK we don't really have a dead ball specialist at the club.

No, not someone as lethal as Coutinho for direct free kicks. Maybe just VVD and TAA but the success rate is never going to be like Coutinho or Suarez.

For indirect free kicks, I think Milner, Salah, Henderson and even Robertson can take them.

[latortuga]

People writing off Solanke are slightly jumping the gun. It was only recently that a lot of people thought Karius would never excel as a number 1.

Whilst the jury may still be out on them both, let's give them sometime to prove/develop before writing them off.

Is it a bit too early to call the turnaround on Karius just yet?  I think so.

On Solanke, like any young upcoming forward your only going to get a limited number of chances to impress and Solanke hasn't been able to take any of those chances.  Maybe he'll go elsewhere and turn out to be a great player, but based on what he's produced so far the odds of that happening are very low.

[harleydanger]

Jesus, we field our b team who cruise in 2nd gear and still Everton look like the worst side in the league.

That club is in real trouble.

[cipher]

One of the worst Everton sides I've seen in the past decade with so little fight and skill in that team.   When your manager admits they feared playing Man City the week before, you know you are dealing with "Hodgson" like level of (mis)management.

I still can't believe the crazy money they spent went on that dross.   Compare their transfers with our signings from the past two seasons:

Naby Keita
Virgil Van Dijk
Alex Oxlade Chamberlain
Salah
Solanke
Robertson

Sadio Mané
Loris Karius
Joël Matip
Ragnar Klavan
Alex Manninger
Georginio Wijnaldum

What a bunch of shite they've spent their money on.

[GreatEx]

I don't pay attention to that level as a predictor of future performance, though - it's NOTORIOUSLY unreliable. However, the top scorer was Ricardo Orsolini. Solanke scored 4 goals, along with some others whose names wouldn't be setting the world alight yet. He played very well in that tournament that I remember (outwith his winning of the Golden Ball), but he also played in a more traditional system that didn't rely on Gegenpressing and one-touch play.

I'm not saying he's a bad player. I'm saying he's a reactive one, which means that he's not looking around the field before the ball comes to him - he gets the ball, THEN decides what he's going to do. This means if there is nothing immediately "On" in his line of sight, he'll try to dribble his way out, or he'll make a bad pass, or he'll lose the ball. For a pressing side with quick transitional one-touch attacking, he needs to be WAY more thoughtful, way more observant. It's one thing to be doing it against teams of his similarly inexperienced peers. To do it at the top level with veterans of top talent? He needs to be WAY better. And quickly.

Careful, posters have been spotted smugly referring to Solanke critics as ignorant blerts, you're liable to be caught. Hell, you didn't even add the usual caveat about how he will surely come good in the long run. Achtung!!

Although no one quoted my post directly, and may have been responding to less constructive stuff like "Solanke/Ings shite git rid!!", it is annoying that one can't point out the clear gulf between our front three and their purported back-ups, and how it has reduced Klopp's ability to keep his key players fresh, without being jumped on.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Careful, posters have been spotted smugly referring to Solanke critics as ignorant blerts, you're liable to be caught. Hell, you didn't even add the usual caveat about how he will surely come good in the long run. Achtung!!

Although no one quoted my post directly, and may have been responding to less constructive stuff like "Solanke/Ings shite git rid!!", it is annoying that one can't point out the clear gulf between our front three and their purported back-ups, and how it has reduced Klopp's ability to keep his key players fresh, without being jumped on.

The gulf in class exists for most teams between their top attacking players and their back ups. We aren't in a position to have 6 top quality players all in the same position. Perhaps we will sign more in the summer, but we are not Man City or United, to where we can spend an obsecene amoun of money at the drop of the hat just like that.

Klopp wanted Solanke here, and he loaned out Origi. He sold Coutinho in January based on what he felt in regards the situation. He allowed Sturridge to go on loan in January. He made those decisions and I am not criticizing him fro it, but he was aware of what could happen once the season gets long. Obviously injuries haven't helped but it is what it is for the time being.

There will be the summer when things will be address [i.e. Coutinho replacement, etc..]

I personally am not going to judge Ings and Solanke on a derby game, which ninety percent of the time are cagey,lack any rhythm or cohesion [this more so at Goodison than it is at Anfield, we've won 2 matches at Goodison since 2011]

[GreatEx]

I personally am not going to judge Ings and Solanke on a derby game, which ninety percent of the time are cagey,lack any rhythm or cohesion [this more so at Goodison than it is at Anfield, we've won 2 matches at Goodison since 2011]

I don't think most people are judging Solanke on the derby game alone. We've had plenty of chances to see him - 23 or so, I believe, admittedly not many of them starts. And in fairness to him, he has occasionally shown good goalscoring instincts and been unlucky not to open his account. But at the same time, he hasn't shown much to indicate he can slot into our chosen system, and I very much doubt anyone would say he'd be capable of filling in for a few months if Firmino were to do a thigh muscle of whatever;  it would be a huge, huge blow.

I accept that we can't afford to pay world-class players enormous salaries to accept bit-part roles, but nor does the gap have to be so large that one injury derails a season. I thought it was interesting shout one poster made about whether we should consider a Defoe type as a short-term solution: an older head who doesn't expect to be #1 but can play at the required level in short stints. It's a trade-off, and of course everyone wants a youth player that grows into a star, but I just don't think we've got the balance right with our 4th-6th forward options this season (hence my earlier shout re: Origi, who has given us a decent goal return with limited opportunities), and must thank our lucky stars for Bobby and Mo's tremendous resilience.

One way to look at this is to compare it to our midfield. We've been able to write-off pretty much entire season of Adam Lallana, and sell some little Brazilian shit whose name eludes me, and absorb a lengthy absence from Henderson, and it hasn't derailed our ambitions. Guys like Milner and Oxlade-Chamberlain have been worth their weight in gold to us: neither were first-choice to start the season, but both have played to a very high level when called upon and now we think of them as starters. We don't have anything close to that in the front third.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

I don't think most people are judging Solanke on the derby game alone. We've had plenty of chances to see him - 23 or so, I believe, admittedly not many of them starts. And in fairness to him, he has occasionally shown good goalscoring instincts and been unlucky not to open his account. But at the same time, he hasn't shown much to indicate he can slot into our chosen system, and I very much doubt anyone would say he'd be capable of filling in for a few months if Firmino were to do a thigh muscle of whatever;  it would be a huge, huge blow.

I accept that we can't afford to pay world-class players enormous salaries to accept bit-part roles, but nor does the gap have to be so large that one injury derails a season. I thought it was interesting shout one poster made about whether we should consider a Defoe type as a short-term solution: an older head who doesn't expect to be #1 but can play at the required level in short stints. It's a trade-off, and of course everyone wants a youth player that grows into a star, but I just don't think we've got the balance right with our 4th-6th forward options this season (hence my earlier shout re: Origi, who has given us a decent goal return with limited opportunities), and must thank our lucky stars for Bobby and Mo's tremendous resilience.

One way to look at this is to compare it to our midfield. We've been able to write-off pretty much entire season of Adam Lallana, and sell some little Brazilian shit whose name eludes me, and absorb a lengthy absence from Henderson, and it hasn't derailed our ambitions. Guys like Milner and Oxlade-Chamberlain have been worth their weight in gold to us: neither were first-choice to start the season, but both have played to a very high level when called upon and now we think of them as starters. We don't have anything close to that in the front third.

We dont but that's how Klopp has decided to go with for this season and he's rotated them when given the opportunity when he's been able to, and they've been in form. It is going to be extremely difficult to find a back up to Bobby because of his unique skillset and what he provides when he plays.

The replacement for Coutinho will help in that regard, and perhaps another centerforward.

We'll see. I don't expect us to see more than 5 players coming in [#6,Coutinho's replacement,wide forward,centerhalf]

[slimbo]

As dire as the game was I'm disappointed we didn't take three points. Sooner we can secure fourth the sooner we can focus solely on #6. Provided we get through a 2nd leg of course.

[TheTeflonJohn]

Was comfortable with that yesterday, rested half the first team in preparation for Tuesday,  no injuries, good to see Clyne back, another clean sheet, Lorius looking better every game and the unbeaten run continues.

Looking good for top four and European cup next season (if we don`t win it this year) as we are 11 points ahead of Chelsea, if Chelsea win their two in hand we would still be five points ahead with 5 games remaining, lose to Chelsea and we are still two points ahead. Losing out on top four would need us to collapse and Chelsea to go on a good run which they`ve struggled with all season.

The Kaiser`s in town 

[Sinyoro]

Klopp has been in this business, at the highest level- and successfully so- for a very long time.

This guys knows what he wants in players and he seems never to make rush judgements. If he is happy to allow a 20 year old to develop without the pressure and responsibility of carrying a team, then I am happy too.

Once upon a time a young De Bruyne, a young Salah and a young Lukaku were jettisoned off by a certain manager- look at them now.

Once upon a time a young unknown called Lewandowski was signed by a certain manager- look at him now.
Instant gratification never has long term benefits.

Dominic Solanke is a long term investment. As long as Herr Klopp is happy with him, we should all be patient and wait to see how it will all end

[Red Beret]

Imagine being Wayne Rooney - going from a title/CL winning manager like Alex Ferguson to Fat Sam Allardyce in the space of five seasons. 

If he has any sense he'll look to move to China or MLS in the summer.

[killer-heels]

We dont but that's how Klopp has decided to go with for this season and he's rotated them when given the opportunity when he's been able to, and they've been in form. It is going to be extremely difficult to find a back up to Bobby because of his unique skillset and what he provides when he plays.

The replacement for Coutinho will help in that regard, and perhaps another centerforward.

We'll see. I don't expect us to see more than 5 players coming in [#6,Coutinho's replacement,wide forward,centerhalf]

I dont think we need a like for like Firmino replacement but just at least 1 more quality body in the front 3. Its very rare that we would want to rest 2 of those front 3 in a league game so if we did have another quality winger we could shift Mane into the Salah role (right wing start but basically a striker), rest Mane or even rest Firmino and play Salah as a striker in a more traditional 4-3-3 setup.

What we saw yesterday was that whilst Solanke and Ings might do a job if we have 2 of our front 3 out there, when we have 2 out it just drops several levels.

[GreatEx]

Was comfortable with that yesterday, rested half the first team in preparation for Tuesday,  no injuries, good to see Clyne back, another clean sheet, Lorius looking better every game and the unbeaten run continues.

Looking good for top four and European cup next season (if we don`t win it this year) as we are 11 points ahead of Chelsea, if Chelsea win their two in hand we would still be five points ahead with 5 games remaining, lose to Chelsea and we are still two points ahead. Losing out on top four would need us to collapse and Chelsea to go on a good run which they`ve struggled with all season.

True, but I would much, much rather we finish top three and avoid a CL qualifier hot on the heels of a World Cup - our team will be absolutely knackered by Christmas.

[Nick110581]

True, but I would much, much rather we finish top three and avoid a CL qualifier hot on the heels of a World Cup - our team will be absolutely knackered by Christmas.

There are no qualifiers. I think it may have been mentioned on here previously.....

[Gaz123456]

Imagine being Wayne Rooney - going from a title/CL winning manager like Alex Ferguson to Fat Sam Allardyce in the space of five seasons. 

If he has any sense he'll look to move to China or MLS in the summer.

I can see the flaw in your argument

[killer-heels]

Would Harry Wilson have been a possibility if he had not been loaned out? I know he has done well for Hull and a friend of mine who goes to all the QPR homes and aways said he looked real class yesterday.

[GreatEx]

There are no qualifiers. I think it may have been mentioned on here previously.....

Well that has made my day to learn that, thanks! In that case, let the CL prioritisation begin!!

[JackWard33]

Would Harry Wilson have been a possibility if he had not been loaned out? I know he has done well for Hull and a friend of mine who goes to all the QPR homes and aways said he looked real class yesterday.

He’s the most perplexing case since Klopp got here given his U23 performances - very possible he’s better than Ings or Solanke but super hard to judge. The only time we’ve seen him in the first team (away vs Plymouth I think) he looked as lively and dangerous as he did in the U23s
Maybe he gets a chance in preseason who knows
It’s defitnely tough to go to the championship, play in an okay team and impress like he is

[Funky_Gibbons]

Would Harry Wilson have been a possibility if he had not been loaned out? I know he has done well for Hull and a friend of mine who goes to all the QPR homes and aways said he looked real class yesterday.

Yeah he’s looking very good in the Championship at the moment. If he’d stayed he’d likely be getting some minutes here and there off the bench with our current injury problems but he’s probably better off getting significant minutes at Hull right now.

Be interesting to see what happens with him next season.

[Djimi Smicer34]

Dominic Solanke is a long term investment. As long as Herr Klopp is happy with him, we should all be patient and wait to see how it will all end

That's about the crux of it.

We need something more in attack, specifically in wide areas - whether that will be Harry Wilson or a new signing remains to be seen.  But Klopp will be looking at the bigger picture when it comes to the likes of Solanke and, from next season, Brewster, and will take a long-term view on their development.  He won't give up on Solanke after one season.

[Red Beret]

I can see the flaw in your argument

That's not a flaw - it's a caveat

[-Willo-]

I just burst out laughing when Calvert-Lewin missed those 2 glorious sitters with 5 mins to go,

These fuckers are cursed I swear, destined for misery year upon year,

I swear they could sign Messi and he'd suffer a career ending injury during his medical.

[Melbred]

Good result for us.

Rested some key players, another clean sheet, Clyne back to add to our depth.

Everton had many chances to win at the death.

[DHKopper]

Best 0-0 ever.  Man are Everton shite though, we barely got out of first gear with a shadow of our best XI and we still had the better of it.  Couple of great saves mind.

[mkingdon]

Calmest derby in years both on the pitch and watching it.

Mainly as we didn't really give that much of a shit about it and had a very weakened team out.

I never felt we were in danger of losing that, even with their chances at the end. I loved Wijnaldum's performance and if he has to play at #6 on Tuesday hopefully he can produce that again.

Ings looked rusty, which is fair enough. Solanke looks some way short at the moment but he's young. He needs to work on his first touch for about 23 hours of every day.

Job done, onto Tuesday and I'm already shitting it.

[afc tukrish]

That's not a flaw - it's a caveat

Is it a usual one?

Those generally apply...

[Funky_Gibbons]

Please tell me this quote isn’t real;

Sam Allardyce: “If my 2 league games against Liverpool this season had been a Champions League tie, we’d have gone through. That’s something my critics won’t tell you.”

[sms1986]

Please tell me this quote isn’t real;

Sam Allardyce: “If my 2 league games against Liverpool this season had been a Champions League tie, we’d have gone through. That’s something my critics won’t tell you.”

 

Where did you read that?

[JackWard33]

On Dom Solanke.....

Yesterday I posted that he was struggling in the game - especially holding the ball up - and I think that's true it wasn't an easy afternoon for him
However he still had our biggest chance in the game and registered 4 shots.

I don't think he should be written off or grouped in with Ings and Origi as a player who will never make the grade for us.
His first touch although I do think it was a bad day for him yesterday - haven't seen evidence previously its that weak

There's a lot of evidence he's been phenomenally unlucky in front of goal.
I was slightly perplexed by how readily he was criticised for 'missing' his chance yesterday - it comes at him super quick, he gets an effort on target, the keeper makes a good reflex save - it comes off his foot a third of an inch to the left and its a goal ....whaddaya gonna do

His underlying numbers are extremely good for a young striker (3.6 shots per 90 and 0.67 expected goals per 90) - intriguingly his pass numbers are also exceptional

Now this is a small sample size and no question skewed by sub effects which help strikers numbers so there's a note of caution needed.

But at a young age for a striker the first question is always 'can he get into dangerous locations and get shots off' in top level games... if he can then goals will always always follow.
Solanke pretty clearly does have this ability and for that reason he's worth persisting with

[Funky_Gibbons]

Where did you read that?

‘Everton Fans Corner’ tweeted it. Surely even Fat Sam wouldn’t really have said that.......

[sms1986]

‘Everton Fans Corner’ tweeted it. Surely even Fat Sam wouldn’t really have said that.......

He's deluded enough to!

[Samie]

he said that to the Sunday journos?

[Solomon Grundy]

‘Everton Fans Corner’ tweeted it. Surely even Fat Sam wouldn’t really have said that.......

That helmet also tweeted this about the derby game :

Everton Fans Corner
‏ @EFCFansCorner_
Apr 7

Imagine how fucking awful the reds would be without Salah based on that tho hahahhahahahahahahahahahahaha one man team them
34 replies 6 retweets 56 likes

[sms1986]

That helmet also tweeted this about the derby game :

 

Still couldn't beat us!

[red1977]

Still couldn't beat us!

What you on about, didn't you read the "ahahahahahahahahahahaha", they hammered us!!! 

[PoetryInMotion]

What you on about, didn't you read the "ahahahahahahahahahahaha", they hammered us!!! 

And we 'capitulated'

[andyrol]

If it was a champions league tie, the much better officials wouldn't have given the pen when calvert-lewin threw himself to the floor and would have sent Coleman off yesterday for about 4 yellow card offences. So we would have won 1-0 on aggregate.