Author Topic: Match Preview: Liverpool vs. Hoffenheim [Wednesday 23 August 2017, K.O. 19:45]  (Read 33902 times)

Offline TepidT2O

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Won 5, drew 7, lost 4 away from home in the league last season...


So fairly good away from home..
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Offline Rhi

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When reaching Hoffenheim’s box, Alexander-Arnold would pass into the Egyptian winger, and either over or underlap him creating varied situations for Salah’s dribble.

Revolutionary full back play.

We're going to blow them away tomorrow. Let's get this show on the road, Reds!
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Offline Foster

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I think it'll get to them a bit like it did with Villarreal in the Europa League.

Offline pjk66

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Is there a presser from Her Klopp today?

Offline sms1986

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Won 5, drew 7, lost 4 away from home in the league last season...


So fairly good away from home..
In Germany, yeah. This will be a whole new experience for them.

Offline Red78

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Has there been a JK press conference for this todaqy as it's tomorrow eve?

Offline Red-4-Ever

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It's at 7 bells this evening.

Offline amirani

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Live training at 16:10 BST shown on their Facebook page.

Edit. rescheduled to 16:20
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 04:09:19 pm by amirani »

Offline rob1966

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Won 5, drew 7, lost 4 away from home in the league last season...


So fairly good away from home..


Unbeaten at home in 16 months until..... ;)
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Offline stevieheighway

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Live training at 16:10 BST shown on their Facebook page.

Edit. rescheduled to 16:20

LFC training live of the Facebook page now https://www.facebook.com/LiverpoolFC/
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Offline amirani

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full team besides Coutinho, Lallana and Clyne in training.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 04:53:50 pm by amirani »

Offline wemmick

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They sure do like to talk, don't they? It's the same old, same old. Everyone is confident of winning at Anfield in Europe, and very rarely do they win. Salah and Mane should scare the hell out of any team chasing two goals.

Offline exiledintheUSA

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Offline TepidT2O

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They sure do like to talk, don't they? It's the same old, same old. Everyone is confident of winning at Anfield in Europe, and very rarely do they win. Salah and Mane should scare the hell out of any team chasing two goals.
I just want us to put some fear into them to see how they actually react to it...

It's fine to say you're looking forwards to it, but they're hardly going to say anything else are they?

Let's give them shit and see how their nerve holds then eh?!
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Offline mechinate

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I think he'll go with Robertson. The quality of delivery on Saturday was better than anything Moreno gives.

                    Mignolet

TAA      Matip      Lovren      Robertson

Wijnaldum       Henderson          Milner 

Salah                Firmino             Mane

Possibly start with Sturridge instead of Salah but I think he'd be a better bet once Hoffenheim have tired. Solanke to come on later for the same reason. Depends on how things are on 60 minutes. If we're clearly ahead then make like-for-like subs with a view to the Arsenal game.

Emre Can is still at the club, you know.

Offline northern Monkey

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I just want us to put some fear into them to see how they actually react to it...

It's fine to say you're looking forwards to it, but they're hardly going to say anything else are they?

Let's give them shit and see how their nerve holds then eh?!

Is right!

Man I miss European nights.  Nothing quite like it.  I made my piece, with being too far away and too skint to make it anymore a long time ago.  But man times like this I really wish I could be back screaming myself hoarse.

Blow them away with noise before it even starts and the boys will do the rest on the pitch. 

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Offline Lycan

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These gobshites need putting in their place tomorrow night.
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Offline BabuYagu

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One thing to note from the first leg is how often Gnabry looked to get at our left side and attack Moreno / Lovren - for example the penalty we conceded. Moreno is explosive enough to match Gnabry but Robertson likely is not. If we are going to leave a full back to deal with huge open spaces and likely be overloaded also - as Moreno usually was in the first leg - I'm not sure how Robertson is suited to dealing with that.

The one question mark I had over him from the weekend was recovery pace. A good example is the Puncheon chance - where from the time we lost possession, Palace attacked down our left, then switched to Puncheon on the right he was - at best, jogging. Of course, that was at teh end of the first half of his first game after a bitpart pre-season so maybe he was just wrecked. But then that would be even more reason to be cautious starting him after his first 90 minutes just a few days before.

So I suspect if our approach will be as open as the first leg on the left, with Moreno having to defend the whole left flank alone leaving Mane high up the pitch to counter and Can tucked in to make us hard to play through centrally - we will likely see Moreno again. If we plan to be more compact and balanced, we may see Robertson start (assuming he is fit enough to play 2 games in 4 days at this point).
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Offline scalatore

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Ah crap, I thought it was today. Got myself set to work from home in front of the TV.

Got chills at the Champions League hymn last time. Glad to be back where we belong. Let's get past these and show Europe that Liverpool FC is still football royalty.

Offline na fir dearg

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they wont be parking the bus so that bodes well for us - an early goal would be great

hopefully Robertson starts

Offline David Struhme

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Hopefully have this wrapped up by half time so we can rest a few key players for the arsenal match

Offline Klippity Klopp

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Lots of people mention depth when looking at squads.  But sometimes you can have cover for players, but if you get too many injuries in the same position - that's the problem.

Last season if we lost Mane, 4-3-3 didn't work. Our attack missed his pace, directness and general threat.  Now we have Salah to provide that.  So really when we have one of Mane or Salah, I'd still fancy our attacking trio to work, should we play 4-3-3.

This is what leads me to my concern for this game.  We have two players not available in CM, who are the creativity in Coutinho and Lallana.  When we have not had either of these two in CM, our midfield generally hasn't worked in terms of balance.  I think it's a real problem for this match.  We could, and probably will, select Henderson, Can and Wijnaldum together in CM, but it is a trio which has time and time again proven to not work together.  Wijnaldum has not taken over the creative role in the absence of Lallana & Coutinho - when I think he should be doing so.  He's not been getting on the ball and dictating play.  If anything he has been playing even more within himself, as I read Robertson had more touches in the last match than Wijnaldum has had in the previous three we have played.  Wijanldum frustrates me because of this as I feel he has the talent to really step into that role.  But actually Milner, Can & Henderson (who at DM should not be the main creator in CM) have all been trying to make us tick and be the creative ones feeding the front three. 

Can I don't feel has the skillset for that role.  I prefer him as the DM, with two players ahead of him who are better on the ball.  That way he can do what he's good at.  Being a physical presence in front of the back four, winning headers, winning 50/50s, a ball winner and the ugly stuff.  That's not to say he can create or press or get forward - but I don't think his strengths are doing that and I prefer him deeper.

Henderson is the man being asked to play deeper.  But that is actually not playing to some of his strengths.  At his best he is brilliant at pressing, using his excellent fitness, forcing errors, making runs to support the attack.  He is a player who can score & create.  But since Klopp has come we've not seen Henderson play that type of role.  I keep wanting to see Can and Henderson swap roles when played together.  Maybe Henderson isn't able to play such a role given his injury history?!  It would be nice to actually know if that's the case, but Klopp never gets asks such questions.  But if he can, then I think he needs to be playing that role, as it is what he does best.

Is Ejaria in the squad?  I'd really be tempted to play him in CM without Coutinho and Lallana.  For me he looks the best option we have to link midfield and attack.  He's very comfortable on the ball, has an eye for a pass, will drive forward playing one / twos.  I think he'd take more responsibility that what Wijnaldum has been doing for example.  Or maybe Woodburn.  But I think I prefer Ejaria over Woodburn at this moment in time in that role, as he has more experience in playing it.

We could play 4-2-3-1 formation, with two of Henderson, Can, Milner (no thanks) or Wijanldum as the two in CM.  But I'm reluctant to see us play with a CM two, given the first match we struggled against them at times defending with three in CM.  I feel we'd need that extra protection.

I'd go:

Mignolet

TAA Matip Klavan Robertson

Can

Henderson Ejaria

Salah Firmino Mane
   


I'm not confident.  I think they're a good little side and without Lallana or Coutinho, I do think we will struggle to control the game, which is what is needed.  Someone in CM needs to step up and take that creative responsibility.  Wijnaldum hasn't done it since he joined the club in their absence - I'm probably in the minority but I feel Ejaria might be the best man for that crucial job. 

Offline Lone Star Red

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They sure do like to talk, don't they? It's the same old, same old. Everyone is confident of winning at Anfield in Europe, and very rarely do they win. Salah and Mane should scare the hell out of any team chasing two goals.

What's the manager going to say? They're going to piss their pants at the sight of the Kop?
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Offline Nick110581

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Lots of people mention depth when looking at squads.  But sometimes you can have cover for players, but if you get too many injuries in the same position - that's the problem.

Last season if we lost Mane, 4-3-3 didn't work. Our attack missed his pace, directness and general threat.  Now we have Salah to provide that.  So really when we have one of Mane or Salah, I'd still fancy our attacking trio to work, should we play 4-3-3.

This is what leads me to my concern for this game.  We have two players not available in CM, who are the creativity in Coutinho and Lallana.  When we have not had either of these two in CM, our midfield generally hasn't worked in terms of balance.  I think it's a real problem for this match.  We could, and probably will, select Henderson, Can and Wijnaldum together in CM, but it is a trio which has time and time again proven to not work together.  Wijnaldum has not taken over the creative role in the absence of Lallana & Coutinho - when I think he should be doing so.  He's not been getting on the ball and dictating play.  If anything he has been playing even more within himself, as I read Robertson had more touches in the last match than Wijnaldum has had in the previous three we have played.  Wijanldum frustrates me because of this as I feel he has the talent to really step into that role.  But actually Milner, Can & Henderson (who at DM should not be the main creator in CM) have all been trying to make us tick and be the creative ones feeding the front three. 

Can I don't feel has the skillset for that role.  I prefer him as the DM, with two players ahead of him who are better on the ball.  That way he can do what he's good at.  Being a physical presence in front of the back four, winning headers, winning 50/50s, a ball winner and the ugly stuff.  That's not to say he can create or press or get forward - but I don't think his strengths are doing that and I prefer him deeper.

Henderson is the man being asked to play deeper.  But that is actually not playing to some of his strengths.  At his best he is brilliant at pressing, using his excellent fitness, forcing errors, making runs to support the attack.  He is a player who can score & create.  But since Klopp has come we've not seen Henderson play that type of role.  I keep wanting to see Can and Henderson swap roles when played together.  Maybe Henderson isn't able to play such a role given his injury history?!  It would be nice to actually know if that's the case, but Klopp never gets asks such questions.  But if he can, then I think he needs to be playing that role, as it is what he does best.

Is Ejaria in the squad?  I'd really be tempted to play him in CM without Coutinho and Lallana.  For me he looks the best option we have to link midfield and attack.  He's very comfortable on the ball, has an eye for a pass, will drive forward playing one / twos.  I think he'd take more responsibility that what Wijnaldum has been doing for example.  Or maybe Woodburn.  But I think I prefer Ejaria over Woodburn at this moment in time in that role, as he has more experience in playing it.

We could play 4-2-3-1 formation, with two of Henderson, Can, Milner (no thanks) or Wijanldum as the two in CM.  But I'm reluctant to see us play with a CM two, given the first match we struggled against them at times defending with three in CM.  I feel we'd need that extra protection.

I'd go:

Mignolet

TAA Matip Klavan Robertson

Can

Henderson Ejaria

Salah Firmino Mane
   


I'm not confident.  I think they're a good little side and without Lallana or Coutinho, I do think we will struggle to control the game, which is what is needed.  Someone in CM needs to step up and take that creative responsibility.  Wijnaldum hasn't done it since he joined the club in their absence - I'm probably in the minority but I feel Ejaria might be the best man for that crucial job. 

Ejaria. He has done nothing of note to warrant starting such a huge match.
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Offline SerbianScouser

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I do think we will struggle to control the game, which is what is needed. 
Not necessarily because they have no choice but to open up which will allow us to hurt them in the same way we did in the first game. With their high line Mane and Salah will have a field day again. As for the midfield troubles I imagine Phil will be back very soon which will not only improve our balance and penetration but also get players like Gini playing again as well as we know they can.

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Not a quarter final, but still, hope the crowd will be properly up for it.  Brings back memories of the seemingly endless rendition of YNWA at Anfield against Dortmund last year . . .

*shivers*  :)

Offline Klippity Klopp

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Not necessarily because they have no choice but to open up which will allow us to hurt them in the same way we did in the first game. With their high line Mane and Salah will have a field day again. As for the midfield troubles I imagine Phil will be back very soon which will not only improve our balance and penetration but also get players like Gini playing again as well as we know they can.

Yes, but the attack still need to be fed.

I'm talking about this match.  Coutinho is not available for this match, this is the match thread.  No point in mentioning Coutinho will solve the issue when he's not going to play.

Ejaria. He has done nothing of note to warrant starting such a huge match.

I disagree.

I have always been impressed when he's played for the 1st team.  I also don't care about experience, I care about quality.  TAA was a risky choice for the first leg, but we saw what he did.  If Ejaria is our best option for that role without Lallana & Coutinho, I'd rather we did that, than played a CM trio, which doesn't work!

Offline redmark

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I'm not confident.  I think they're a good little side and without Lallana or Coutinho, I do think we will struggle to control the game, which is what is needed.  Someone in CM needs to step up and take that creative responsibility.  Wijnaldum hasn't done it since he joined the club in their absence - I'm probably in the minority but I feel Ejaria might be the best man for that crucial job. 
We've probably not got the manager who would do it, but a midfield containing Henderson/Can/Milner/Wijnaldum could 'control' this game relatively comfortably; what they may have trouble with is directing/orchestrating it.

This is quite an intriguing game in terms of how Klopp approaches it. There's one absolute for us to go through: don't concede two goals. It doesn't matter if we win 1-0 or 7-1, draw 1-1 or lose 1-0. There are obviously a few results where we could concede more, and still go through if we win the game by 2 goals.

But if we concede one, or none, we're through.

In some ways, ignoring who the manager is, the easiest way to do that is just control the ball. We don't need to really do anything with it, except maintain possession of it. Milner could play it to Robertson, to Lovren, to Henderson, to Milner, to Lovren, to Matip, to Henderson, to Can, to Matip, to TAA... and then back again. For 45 minutes each half. You could stick Firmino on the bench, play all four of those midfielders or an extra CB and tell Mane and Salah to stay on the halfway line and chase it if we have to hoof it under any pressure.

That's obviously an extreme. But this game isn't like having to win at home to Palace (for our league ambitions). We don't need to win this game. We don't need to score. We probably will, even if it just from Mane and Salah chasing a clearance at some point. But we don't really need to be particularly creative in this game. We don't actually need to score. If and when we try to, Hoffenheim can't maintain an eight-man defence on the edge of their own box for 90 minutes.

I'm less concerned about our ability to play through the middle, to link our midfield and attack, in this game than against Palace; or practically any bus-parkers we're likely to see at Anfield this season. Pace will get us chances, pressure and intensity will get us chances. The rest of it is just about looking after the ball.
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Offline BabuYagu

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Yes, but the attack still need to be fed.

I'm talking about this match.  Coutinho is not available for this match, this is the match thread.  No point in mentioning Coutinho will solve the issue when he's not going to play.

I disagree.

I have always been impressed when he's played for the 1st team.  I also don't care about experience, I care about quality.  TAA was a risky choice for the first leg, but we saw what he did.  If Ejaria is our best option for that role without Lallana & Coutinho, I'd rather we did that, than played a CM trio, which doesn't work!

I agree that our midfield trio with the available personnel at the moment are struggling against a low block. However, I think in a game such as this where we are playing on the counter &/or will be transition heavy shouldn't be that much of a problem.

A midfield trio from Can, Henderson (certain to start) Milner, Gini (likely one or the other) looks unappealing on paper in terms of creativity but likely creativity in this game will come from pace alone as in the first leg. Most counter attacking sides typically have a functional midfield anyway as it's the space they are attacking that makes them dangerous rather than the creative output of their midfield.

I would have more creative midfielder(s) on the bench incase the worst happens, we get into a bad position in the tie, then end up facing a compact Hoffenheim side and need to find another solution.
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I know it will never happen but I like the suggestion of Ejaria to come into the middle and play link man. Has always struck me (the few times he's played) as extremely confident on the ball, able to hold off defenders with his body and play in tight spaces.
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Offline Klippity Klopp

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I agree that our midfield trio with the available personnel at the moment are struggling against a low block. However, I think in a game such as this where we are playing on the counter &/or will be transition heavy shouldn't be that much of a problem.

A midfield trio from Can, Henderson (certain to start) Milner, Gini (likely one or the other) looks unappealing on paper in terms of creativity but likely creativity in this game will come from pace alone as in the first leg. Most counter attacking sides typically have a functional midfield anyway as it's the space they are attacking that makes them dangerous rather than the creative output of their midfield.

I would have more creative midfielder(s) on the bench incase the worst happens, we get into a bad position in the tie, then end up facing a compact Hoffenheim side and need to find another solution.

I agree it's more of an issue against low block teams.

But it hasn't really worked against any type of team.  It is easier for Henderson, Can & Wijnaldum to pick a pass on the break to Mane or Salah.

I'd rather have the right players on the pitch to start who can offer the creative passes regardless of how the opposition play, rather than having them on the bench as a Plan B.  Especially when that trio hasn't worked before in almost any game (I'd include the Lucas, Wijnaldum & Can trio at the end of last season as well, which is similar).

We're at home, not sure our approach is going to sit back and hit on the break anyway.  Klopp always says we're a possession based team and being at home, I would have thought the plan would be to attack from the start.

Offline amirani

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I agree that our midfield trio with the available personnel at the moment are struggling against a low block. However, I think in a game such as this where we are playing on the counter &/or will be transition heavy shouldn't be that much of a problem.

A midfield trio from Can, Henderson (certain to start) Milner, Gini (likely one or the other) looks unappealing on paper in terms of creativity but likely creativity in this game will come from pace alone as in the first leg. Most counter attacking sides typically have a functional midfield anyway as it's the space they are attacking that makes them dangerous rather than the creative output of their midfield.

I would have more creative midfielder(s) on the bench incase the worst happens, we get into a bad position in the tie, then end up facing a compact Hoffenheim side and need to find another solution.

If that happens, I think we will drop one of the front 3 in midfield and bring one of Solanke, Sturridge or Origi. Either of Mane and Firmino should be able to play as a makeshift attacking midfield role. In fact, Mane has played quite a few games in the number 10 role for Saints if I remember correctly.

Offline BabuYagu

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I agree it's more of an issue against low block teams.

But it hasn't really worked against any type of team.  It is easier for Henderson, Can & Wijnaldum to pick a pass on the break to Mane or Salah.

I'd rather have the right players on the pitch to start who can offer the creative passes regardless of how the opposition play, rather than having them on the bench as a Plan B.  Especially when that trio hasn't worked before in almost any game (I'd include the Lucas, Wijnaldum & Can trio at the end of last season as well, which is similar).

We're at home, not sure our approach is going to sit back and hit on the break anyway.  Klopp always says we're a possession based team and being at home, I would have thought the plan would be to attack from the start.

But tactically, you take the approach that best suits you.

Hoffenheim are a rare breed in that they play 3 center backs, none of whom are blessed with pace, and a very high line. Also, due to their shape and their movement patterns, they tend to always have an overload either in central midfield or on one of the two wings. Therefore, if you start with Ejaria - an unknown quantity for a midfield battle - and they decide to overload him in midfield all night, you have no idea how that plays out. A very realistic possibility is our midfield trio needing to deal with Amiri, Demirday, Gnabry and Kramaric all in and around them most of the night. Experienced central midfielders are more likely to deal with the problems this poses than an 18 year old Ejaria.

It's again about balancing risk and reward. There are benefits to starting him, there are potential problems also. We managed to shield TAA defensively last week tactically speaking. This allowed him the freedom to play his own game and thrive. We cannot really do that in central midfield. It remains the hardest role to blood kids.

I have no problem with starting Ejaria or Grujic in midfield. We need to trust the kids this season. I would just be very surprised if the time to do so for Klopp would be this game given the way Hoffenheim tend to overload the midfield. I suspect we will see them more against a low block than a very aggressive, tactically smart Hoffenheim side.
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If that happens, I think we will drop one of the front 3 in midfield and bring one of Solanke, Sturridge or Origi. Either of Mane and Firmino should be able to play as a makeshift attacking midfield role. In fact, Mane has played quite a few games in the number 10 role for Saints if I remember correctly.
He did, but struggled to be honest. I suspect Firmino or Salah would be the most likely options. I said elsewhere I would quite like to see Solanke & Firmino with Salah in behind. I would like to keep one of our pacey players on the bench for this one to run at tired legs if the tie doesn't go how we hope.
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Offline Alonso_The_Assassin

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Not a quarter final, but still, hope the crowd will be properly up for it.  Brings back memories of the seemingly endless rendition of YNWA at Anfield against Dortmund last year . . .

*shivers*  :)

Here's hoping. Got tickets and well up for it. Think we'll do it. Strong opponents, sure, but I just can't' see us not scoring tomorrow night.

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Emre Can is still at the club, you know.

We have a game against Arsenal at the weekend you know. Can or Wijnaldum should be fine and Gini has been playing on that side of midfield - I just wanted Milner in there with Mane and Robertson to fuck up the right side of their defence.
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Offline Klippity Klopp

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But tactically, you take the approach that best suits you.

Hoffenheim are a rare breed in that they play 3 center backs, none of whom are blessed with pace, and a very high line. Also, due to their shape and their movement patterns, they tend to always have an overload either in central midfield or on one of the two wings. Therefore, if you start with Ejaria - an unknown quantity for a midfield battle - and they decide to overload him in midfield all night, you have no idea how that plays out. A very realistic possibility is our midfield trio needing to deal with Amiri, Demirday, Gnabry and Kramaric all in and around them most of the night. Experienced central midfielders are more likely to deal with the problems this poses than an 18 year old Ejaria.

It's again about balancing risk and reward. There are benefits to starting him, there are potential problems also. We managed to shield TAA defensively last week tactically speaking. This allowed him the freedom to play his own game and thrive. We cannot really do that in central midfield. It remains the hardest role to blood kids.

I have no problem with starting Ejaria or Grujic in midfield. We need to trust the kids this season. I would just be very surprised if the time to do so for Klopp would be this game given the way Hoffenheim tend to overload the midfield. I suspect we will see them more against a low block than a very aggressive, tactically smart Hoffenheim side.

Absolutely you do what's best to win the game, by nullifying the opponents and letting them worry about you.

I think it would be a negative approach going for a three man CM, of which has never really worked together.

Much rather actually play a balanced CM, one which could cause them problems, rather than one which is most likely to nullify them rather than causing them issues.

I'd be surprised if the plan is to sit back and hit on the break, unless we get a goal or two ahead on the night.

I think Klopp will attack and want to finish the tie early.  We're at home, we're the better side on paper, he's not really a manager to sit back.  I think pressing aggressively high up the pitch is more likely than sitting back. 

But we'll see.

That midfield worries me though, regardless of who we pick - I see risk and some question marks! 

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I'd be surprised if the plan is to sit back and hit on the break, unless we get a goal or two ahead on the night.

I think Klopp will attack and want to finish the tie early. 

I thought the same of the away game but we saw that the team was quite happy to cede possession to them until they had tired themselves and we turned on the high pressing late in the game. With them playing a high line and being used to playing a possession based game as well as needing goals it would seem quite obvious to let them have the ball and punish them on the break with the speed of Mane and/or Salah. If they fall into that trap it could be a high scoring game for us which would keep Anfield happy, or not?
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Much rather actually play a balanced CM, one which could cause them problems, rather than one which is most likely to nullify them rather than causing them issues.

I'd be surprised if the plan is to sit back and hit on the break, unless we get a goal or two ahead on the night.

I don't think it has to be as polarised as that. Our current 'uncreative' midfield trio can circulate the ball and maintain possession comfortably enough, while having the ability to link up with the full backs - and to pick out a direct attacking pass if Mane/Salah find themselves in a bit of space at any given moment. It certainly also has the ability to launch a counter, which it will get the opportunity to do whether we 'design' for that or not, as Hoffenheim will have to push forward at some point, to score two goals.
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