Topic: Typhoid Trump: the not-smart, corrupt, coward, loser, thread

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Not really.

No free biscuits for him at party meetings anymore. What a sacrifice.

Will be good if a few of the rats follow him.I expect that Drumpf will have a twitter tantrum over the slight,that is if his handlers tell him about it.

[Gnurglan]

His rise has proven that many Americans are far more racist,sexist & ignorant than many of us believed.

I don't think so. I reckon it's more complex. We see the same pattern everywhere, not just in the US. People are going back to being more nationalistic. We had Brexit, we had Le Pen (who thankfully lostJ. We are no different over here (Sweden). Later this year, we will probably have a nationalistic, some would say racist, party become possibly the biggest party.

Why? The explanation, the general one is probably that people start to realise that with globalism things are not gonna be as we expected. What's likely to happen is we, in the Western world, will get it worse while those who have been seen as poor will get it better. That's not what people want to hear. People feel they are being ignored. Talking about the situation over here, politicians have not listened to the people. This has opened up for more nationalistic candidates and ideas. So it's not necessarily people who embrace idiots like Trump, it's the lack of options. Everyone else says the same thing, he says something different. If you are bring ignored, if you want something else, what have you got to lose?

I'm one of the most anti-Trump you will find. But I will say this. He is right about China stealing their business. We all know it. If you want to do business in China, you will have to accept a joint venture. Chinese ownership to I think it is 50%. This does not apply in the US or in the EU. If a Chinese company opens in England, you won't find that a pre-condition is English ownership, or there will be no business done. What happens? Technology is stolen. And it's then sold back to us.

The problem I have with Trump's supporters is that they knew who he was and still elected him. They knew he was a narcissist and they should have seen how he behaved. It was a disgrace. And they elected him anyway. That's on them. Nobody can claim they didn't know. Today he has decided he trusts Putin over his own intelligence agencies. I'm not surprised. No-one should be. He is in this for himself, not for anything else, not for America, not for hos voters. The natural thing to do is distance yourself from him. Admit the mistake. Those who try and make sense of all his flip flopping will look like idiots in the future. Trump will be like a broken watch. He will be right a few times, but wrong much more frequently.

I don't think people buy in to everything he says. They see one thing and take it as evidence they made the right decision. A bit like if I was to vote for Trump over the China trade thing I mentioned above. But people would then say I am racist, I am sexist etc because of this. That too is a problem. Because if this is done in an aggressive way, I would be accused of things I disagree with and my point would be made unimportant.

There's another side to this. If I was to say Trump is right about China, Trump and his people would blow that out of proportion. They would exploit it. Make it sound like I love his ideas, that I am behind him all the way, that I am beginning to understand his greatness etc. So I become afraid of both voting for Trump and for voicing my opinion. That's what happens when you have to deal with a narcissist.

We should be careful thinking people who support Trump are like him. I don't think that's the case. At all. We need to allow people a way out.

[killer-heels]

I don't think so. I reckon it's more complex. We see the same pattern everywhere, not just in the US. People are going back to being more nationalistic. We had Brexit, we had Le Pen (who thankfully lostJ. We are no different over here (Sweden). Later this year, we will probably have a nationalistic, some would say racist, party become possibly the biggest party.

Why? The explanation, the general one is probably that people start to realise that with globalism things are not gonna be as we expected. What's likely to happen is we, in the Western world, will get it worse while those who have been seen as poor will get it better. That's not what people want to hear. People feel they are being ignored. Talking about the situation over here, politicians have not listened to the people. This has opened up for more nationalistic candidates and ideas. So it's not necessarily people who embrace idiots like Trump, it's the lack of options. Everyone else says the same thing, he says something different. If you are bring ignored, if you want something else, what have you got to lose?

I'm one of the most anti-Trump you will find. But I will say this. He is right about China stealing their business. We all know it. If you want to do business in China, you will have to accept a joint venture. Chinese ownership to I think it is 50%. This does not apply in the US or in the EU. If a Chinese company opens in England, you won't find that a pre-condition is English ownership, or there will be no business done. What happens? Technology is stolen. And it's then sold back to us.

The problem I have with Trump's supporters is that they knew who he was and still elected him. They knew he was a narcissist and they should have seen how he behaved. It was a disgrace. And they elected him anyway. That's on them. Nobody can claim they didn't know. Today he has decided he trusts Putin over his own intelligence agencies. I'm not surprised. No-one should be. He is in this for himself, not for anything else, not for America, not for hos voters. The natural thing to do is distance yourself from him. Admit the mistake. Those who try and make sense of all his flip flopping will look like idiots in the future. Trump will be like a broken watch. He will be right a few times, but wrong much more frequently.

I don't think people buy in to everything he says. They see one thing and take it as evidence they made the right decision. A bit like if I was to vote for Trump over the China trade thing I mentioned above. But people would then say I am racist, I am sexist etc because of this. That too is a problem. Because if this is done in an aggressive way, I would be accused of things I disagree with and my point would be made unimportant.

There's another side to this. If I was to say Trump is right about China, Trump and his people would blow that out of proportion. They would exploit it. Make it sound like I love his ideas, that I am behind him all the way, that I am beginning to understand his greatness etc. So I become afraid of both voting for Trump and for voicing my opinion. That's what happens when you have to deal with a narcissist.

We should be careful thinking people who support Trump are like him. I don't think that's the case. At all. We need to allow people a way out.

What do you mean a way out?

[Giono]

Like others have said the damage this clown is doing to America will probably be a generational thing. Truly staggering to watch it unfold

The last of the baby boomer presidents I hope. Clinton, GW, Trump.

[mallin9]

Certainly changed my perspective of the country and I live here.

Ditto

[mallin9]

Snip

Excellent post, well reasoned

[Banquo's Ghost]

I don't think so. I reckon it's more complex....

....We should be careful thinking people who support Trump are like him. I don't think that's the case. At all. We need to allow people a way out.

The whole is a very good post.

[Djozer]

snip

Fair few great points here mate. Nice one, cheers.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

He actually winked at Putin lol


https://twitter.com/sistercrow/status/1018856930662498304

[Mimi]

Gnurglan, your post completely absolves Trump voters of the responsibility they bear for electing a man who has wreaked devastation over wide swathes of the American populace (*basically everyone who is non-white)with his cruel policies.

I don’t think these Trump people should come out unscathed at the end of Trump’s presidency. God knows the rest of America won’t.

 Your post also is also completely blind to the fact that race underpins American politics. Those who voted for Trump need to be honest with themselves that they are racists. Because they all had a choice - no matter the issue you don’t support a man who is a racist.  There is no middle ground when it comes to race. You either see someone of a different race as human or you don’t. 

[jambutty]

It's power he loves.

His idols, his chums (they're giants of industry, he's a mafia stooge).  He knows dictators.  Deals with 'em all the time.  They usually last longer than Presidents. 

He'll collect on his favours when he's out of office.

[TravisBickle]

Gnurglan, your post completely absolves Trump voters of the responsibility they bear for electing a man who has wreaked devastation over wide swathes of the American populace (*basically everyone who is non-white)with his cruel policies.

I don’t think these Trump people should come out unscathed at the end of Trump’s presidency. God knows the rest of America won’t.

 Your post also is also completely blind to the fact that race underpins American politics. Those who voted for Trump need to be honest with themselves that they are racists. Because they all had a choice - no matter the issue you don’t support a man who is a racist.  There is no middle ground when it comes to race. You either see someone of a different race as human or you don’t.

 This. One million percent this. Trump is a fascist. Le Pen is a fascist. Frottage is a fascist and although I know Frottage was not the entire Brexit “movement,” the so-called reasonable Brexiters won by doing their best Frottage impression. These are basic facts.

 These politicians, these ‘’movements,” they are all fascist. Frottage and Le Pen are different to Trump in the sense they tried to hide their true colours; with Le Pen it was an incredibly disciplined detoxification campaign, with Frottage it was the normalisation of fascism through the politics of personality. Again, I think these are very basic facts.

Trump was different. From the word go, he displayed his fascism to the world. He owned it. He was proud of it. Of course he would deny it, then double down on it in the next sentence. Donald Trump told the world in very simple terms who he was and what he stood for. If you supported Trump then you were either too stupid to know what fascism is or you simply didn’t care.

 There’s a whole load of bollocks being talked about Trump voters, and about people who support these other fascist scumbags. They’re misunderstood. They’re disadvantaged. They’ll be alienated if we dismiss them as straight up c*nts. You know what? I couldn’t disagree more. The stupid ones don’t know the meaning of the word “alienated” and the ones that actually are switched on deserve as much respect as the evil bastards they prop up by voting for them and their ideas.

 Fascism was not defeated by “understanding” it. Fascism was not defeated by trying to find common ground. Fascism was defeated by stamping on its evil, murderous throat again and again until it could no longer cough up its own bile. To not do the same again now is to open the door to the jackboots. To the politics of true evil.

 These c*nts have no interest in “understanding” us. We should make no attempt to “understand” them because history has already taught us everything we need to know. We know where this road leads, we know where it ends. People supporting this evil should not get away with it. If they do not change course, history will remember them as nothing more than vermin, and that’s all they deserve.

 Unless of course they win. Which I think right now is likely.

 Edit: in relation to ny comment about “stamping on the throat” of fascism, I obviously refer not just to the war against Nazism and the twisted branches that leer out from that most poisonous of trees but to political correctness. Political correctness has had its faults and I’ve said as much on these pages more times than I care to remember but ultimately, all PC is is an attempt to find an inclusive discourse which makes as many people as possible feel comfortable. Ten years ago, when “PC gone mad” was the buzzphrase, there was national outrage over Nick Griffin having a slot on Question Time. Now, Frottage is hosting Steve Bannon on national radio in the name of “debate.” We are not at the beginning of the descent to fascism, here. We are a long way down the road. It has happened in the blink of an eye and that is why we can’t waste time debating these bastards.

[vagabond]

Funnily enough, there's a lot of black and brown folk in america who are also losers in the globalist economy and that are just as ignored by the decision makers. I wonder why Trump wasn't able to overwhelmingly win their vote...

[TravisBickle]

Funnily enough, there's a lot of black and brown folk in america who are also losers in the globalist economy and that are just as ignored by the decision makers. I wonder why Trump wasn't able to overwhelmingly win their vote...

 Again, this is spot on. And this is where I start to blame elements of the media. We constantly see articles with headlines such as “meeting the people at the heart of Brexit,” where post-industrial towns are featured, or “into the heart of Trumpland” where the reporter speaks to people from former coal communities. Why is it not emphasised that rich, white, financially stable people vote for these bastards and poor, black people don’t?

 It all helps the normalisation of fascism. The normalisation. The regular. The justifiable. What you see every day. I can’t stress this enough. The more you see something, the less shocking it becomes. By presenting support for evil as a trait belonging exclusively to the downtrodden, the media feed this narrative. It excuses the apologists.

 If you tolerate this, then your children will be next.

[Jiminy Cricket]

It’s baffling, really. He’s 72 years old, can it be that he is suffering from mild dementia? (My father is suffering from this illness so this is not an attempt to be funny.)

If you watch interviews of Trump from 20 years ago, or even 10 years ago, there is a very definite change in how he speaks. This can be expected to a degree at that age, but the change is really quite marked. Of course he never possessed an alpha-brain, but he was far sharper in the past. Now, he sounds like some old-timer in a bar who is bitter, angry, a bit confused, and a complete bore. Yet, nearly half the electorate voted for him.

Yes, I think there are some organic changes going on.

[Jiminy Cricket]

No, he’s always been like this.  He’s a despicable c*nt.  Always has been.

Knows little, says stuff on the spur of the moment because he’s never prepared ...

People have claimed is is pretty stupid for decades. This is not new.

'Always been a c*nt' - undoubtedly! 'Always been stupid' - yes! But he speaks differently now.

[Jiminy Cricket]

Not dementia. Try NPD.

Not mutually exclusive, of course.

[Giono]

It you watch interviews of Trump from 20 years ago, or even 10 years ago, there is a very definite change in how he speaks. This can be expected to a degree at that age, but the change is really quite marked. Of course he never possessed an alpha-brain, but he was far sharper in the past. Now, he sounds like some old-timer in a bar who is bitter, angry, a bit confused, and a complete bore. Yet, nearly half the electorate voted for him.

Yes, I think there are some organic changes going on.

That’s to be expected to a normal degree. And judging by his diet and his appearance he is not helping matters. But he is not ‘losing it’. Ronald Reagan had alzeimers I believe, but he was able to function in his second term. This guy is one year into his presidency and people want to chalk it up to dementia? I’m not having that.

Plus, everything that is happening over this year...all the crazy...was predictable. He is not getting worse, he was always this bad, but largely ignored. Now he is under the magnifying glass and it really is this bad.

[Jiminy Cricket]

His rise has proven that many Americans are far more racist,sexist & ignorant than many of us believed.

Certainly changed my perspective of the country and I live here.

I'm an import to the US. I probably could have been described as a USA-skeptic in the past. I recognized both positives and negatives. How you now feel about the US is how I have become to feel about the UK. In the past I have told Americans that the overt racism which is tolerated within the GOP would never be tolerated within mainstream British politics. If a member of an established party made the kind of racist comments some politicians often make over here, they would be taken to task by their party leader, disciplined, and quite possibly expelled. Well, that's all changed over the past few years. Such behaviour is now well-tolerated by the Labour and Conservative parties in the UK. And, of course, the politicians are largely a reflection of their electors. I can fully sympathise with your broken rose-tinted spectacles.

[kavah]

From The NY Times comments

The President of the United States isn't sure whether he believes the U.S. government or the Russian government. Just let that sink in.


https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/16/world/europe/trump-putin-election-intelligence.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage#commentsContainer

[KillieRed]

Trump is at the centre of the worst Venn Diagram in history:   Multiple Personality Disorders / Stupidity / Evil.

Americans somehow (sorta) elected the least of themselves to lead them.



Interesting that some Republicans are popping their heads over the parapet to attack the Dear Leader. Many of them will have been brought up indoctrinated into the belief that Russia was Americas #1 Enemy and the sight of the President deferring to Putin must make them sick. Unless, of course, they are on the payroll too.

The Butina story on is a very interesting development and I see that Dana Loesch has been blanket blocking people who bring up Russian/NRA financial ties.

Greed Trumps Patriotism (pun only partially meant).

[Alan_X]

Trump is at the centre of the worst Venn Diagram in history:   Multiple Personality Disorders / Stupidity / Evil.

Americans somehow (sorta) elected the least of themselves to lead them.



Interesting that some Republicans are popping their heads over the parapet to attack the Dear Leader. Many of them will have been brought up indoctrinated into the belief that Russia was Americas #1 Enemy and the sight of the President deferring to Putin must make them sick. Unless, of course, they are on the payroll too.

The Butina story on is a very interesting development and I see that Dana Loesch has been blanket blocking people who bring up Russian/NRA financial ties.

Greed Trumps Patriotism (pun only partially meant).

It's deliciously ironic that the NRA helped elect a Russian stooge who is doing everything he can to undermine the United States of 'Murica.

Oh yes, you have your 'right to bear arms' and your 'well-armed militia' but not only did the NRA do fuck all to defend the country against attack, it rolled over and welcomed enemy intervention while it counted the dollars and masturbated over copies of Guns and Ammo.

And all the while appropriating the words 'Patriot' and 'Freedom' as if they had any clue what those words actually mean.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

And all the while appropriating the words 'Patriot' and 'Freedom' as if they had any clue what those words actually mean.

I know a guy who has one Pistol. And somehow he is less patriotic than another friend of mine who has 3 Semi-Automatics, 3 Manuals, 4 Carbines, 15 Pistols, 5 Sawn-offs and some 4000 rounds of ammo loitering around the house. Must be the effect of the huge ass American flag on the porch. Or the fact the former drives a Toyota Hybrid. While the later drives a V8 Supercharged Chevy Pickup. I really cant decide.

[Peabee]

It does seem now that Putin has already won a world war. He didn’t even have to bomb most of the countries.

[Alan_X]

It does seem now that Putin has already won a world war. He didn’t even have to bomb most of the countries.

Give him time. There are countries in Russia’s sphere of influence that must be shitting themselves after Trump’s capitulation yesterday and his disruption of NATO   

[Peabee]

Give him time. There are countries in Russia’s sphere of influence that must be shitting themselves after Trump’s capitulation yesterday and his disruption of NATO

The sad thing is that it was predictable to even those of us outside of politics/govt etc. But now Trump is openly acting like an asset of an FSB agent.

I had been holding on to a small thread of hope that Trump just has an odd approach to diplomacy when dealing with dictators and authoritarian govts; that he says what they want to hear to keep them happy.

 

[Alan_X]

The sad thing is that it was predictable to even those of us outside of politics/govt etc. But now Trump is openly acting like an asset of an FSB agent.

I had been holding on to a small thread of hope that Trump just has an odd approach to diplomacy when dealing with dictators and authoritarian govts; that he says what they want to hear to keep them happy.

 

He does, but not as a strategy to gain advantage over dictators and despots but as an envious lickspittle who wants to be one. 

[Gnurglan]

What do you mean a way out?

There are lots of people who can see who Trump is now. People who voted for him. They are not Trump. They are just people who voted for him. If we label them all racist and stupid because Trump is, they will not change sides. Take these questions:

Do you want the wall to Mexico?
Do you believe Putin over the American intelligence agencies about the election?
Do you think the EU is an enemy?
Do you think NYT, WP and CNN are fake news?
Do you want the muslim ban?
Do you believe the trade with China is fair?
Do you believe Obama's birth certificate was false?

If you answer yes to all questions, you are definitely a Trump supporter. But what if you answer yes on one question? If we assume you are a Trump supporter then too, we're in trouble. Because then you have to position yourself as being against everything he says. There has to be a way to say I agree with him on this issue, but I think he is wrong in the other fifty issues and I believe he is a narcissistic prick. This approach will allow people to have their own opinion and they can be judged on it, instead of what Trump says.

[Giono]

Manafort court proceedings scheduled for today have been delayed a week...flip flop and fly?

[FlashGordon]

There are lots of people who can see who Trump is now. People who voted for him. They are not Trump. They are just people who voted for him. If we label them all racist and stupid because Trump is, they will not change sides. Take these questions:

Do you want the wall to Mexico?
Do you believe Putin over the American intelligence agencies about the election?
Do you think the EU is an enemy?
Do you think NYT, WP and CNN are fake news?
Do you want the muslim ban?
Do you believe the trade with China is fair?
Do you believe Obama's birth certificate was false?

If you answer yes to all questions, you are definitely a Trump supporter. But what if you answer yes on one question? If we assume you are a Trump supporter then too, we're in trouble. Because then you have to position yourself as being against everything he says. There has to be a way to say I agree with him on this issue, but I think he is wrong in the other fifty issues and I believe he is a narcissistic prick. This approach will allow people to have their own opinion and they can be judged on it, instead of what Trump says.

They shouldn't have voted for the orange faced twat if they only agree with him on one issue. If you did vote for him on one issue you're still in a roundabout way a Trump supporter as you're enabling him to enact all those other horrible policies you knew he stood for.

None of those plebs have any ounce of credibility left. They're gone now and should be consigned to history as imbeciles.

[rafathegaffa83]

Manafort court proceedings scheduled for today have been delayed a week...flip flop and fly?

Doubt he's flipping. Only last week it was reported he was covertly trying to send emails from jail

Rachel Maddow MSNBC@maddow
Special Counsel's Office says Manafort has been surreptitiously sending emails from jail...

[Wilmo]

There are lots of people who can see who Trump is now. People who voted for him. They are not Trump. They are just people who voted for him. If we label them all racist and stupid because Trump is, they will not change sides. Take these questions:

Do you want the wall to Mexico?
Do you believe Putin over the American intelligence agencies about the election?
Do you think the EU is an enemy?
Do you think NYT, WP and CNN are fake news?
Do you want the muslim ban?
Do you believe the trade with China is fair?
Do you believe Obama's birth certificate was false?

If you answer yes to all questions, you are definitely a Trump supporter. But what if you answer yes on one question? If we assume you are a Trump supporter then too, we're in trouble. Because then you have to position yourself as being against everything he says. There has to be a way to say I agree with him on this issue, but I think he is wrong in the other fifty issues and I believe he is a narcissistic prick. This approach will allow people to have their own opinion and they can be judged on it, instead of what Trump says.

Well said. To me, this is a crucial point. Trump has done worse things (separating and imprisoning children) but this is an issue that can't be seen through a lens of policy difference or waved away as being a 'sjw' or 'snowflake' issue. Republicans have made a hell of a lot of political hay out of their anti-Russia, American exceptionalist stance over the past several decades. They have political ownership of this issue - rightly or wrongly. I imagine a lot of Trump voters feel like idiots now but don't want to back down, as it would mean the left's ideology was correct whereas their's was fully wrong. This is a Republican issue, where people can change their mind on Trump without having to show deference to another viewpoint. It's easier to say 'maybe I got it wrong' for these people than it is to say 'maybe you were right.' I think this is a watershed moment.

[Peabee]

The Queen wore a brooch gifted to her by the Obamas the first day she met Trump (apparently, quite a cheap brooch as it was a personal gift from them, not the USA, meant for sentimental value), and on the second day she wore a snowflake brooch. I’d really like to think she did this on purpose.

[rafathegaffa83]

The Queen wore a brooch gifted to her by the Obamas the first day she met Trump (apparently, quite a cheap brooch as it was a personal gift from them, not the USA, meant for sentimental value), and on the second day she wore a snowflake brooch. I’d really like to think she did this on purpose.

Like her EU hat?

[Alan_X]

Without wishing to depress anyone I suggest you watch the Fox News coverage of Helsinki. This is the news that a large portion of the US public will get.

It was a triumph and showed his statesmanlike qualities, rising above the liberal demands to create conflict... there were a few mildly dissenting voices but they get short shrift. Hannity provides yet another masterclass in spouting gushing praise with Trump’s Cock halfway down his throat.

It’s amazing.

[Gnurglan]

Gnurglan, your post completely absolves Trump voters of the responsibility they bear for electing a man who has wreaked devastation over wide swathes of the American populace (*basically everyone who is non-white)with his cruel policies.

I don’t think these Trump people should come out unscathed at the end of Trump’s presidency. God knows the rest of America won’t.

 Your post also is also completely blind to the fact that race underpins American politics. Those who voted for Trump need to be honest with themselves that they are racists. Because they all had a choice - no matter the issue you don’t support a man who is a racist.  There is no middle ground when it comes to race. You either see someone of a different race as human or you don’t. 

For me it's a bigger trend, the US are not alone. Race issues should have been enough for people to ignore Trump. At least combined with all the other shit. In the primaries and in the election. It wasn't. But it's wrong to assume everyone voted for Trump because of his stance on race. We shouldn't automatically call them all racists. Some are, but I don't think all of them are. We shouldn't fall into the trap of thinking everyone is behind Trump on every issue, just because they voted for him.

I'll give an example from over here (Sweden). SD is a party who have long been labled racist. They don't want us to accept as many refugees for example. So we get the Syria crisis with all the refugees and all of a sudden the very people who have called SD racist are now saying we cannot accept more refugees, we have to change our policy. But... they also say we are never still gonna work with SD. So your opinion, if you voted SD, is wrong, even when the opponent has accepted it as their own. If this is how the political elite behaves, they can expect a reaction.

Because what have people got to lose? Some will just say fuck it. You ignored me for all these years, I got nothing from you, so I will vote for someone else. Anyone. You have already made fun of me, called me ignorant, stupid, racist etc, so you have no chance to get my vote. Why not go with SD? At least it will send a message... This is where I believe America was. I believe this is the same reason Brexit happened. It's the same pattern. And we can see it elsewhere too. Later this year we will see it in Sweden as well.

The US had experienced 28 years (1988-2016) with three families in power and were facing a potential 8 more years with another one from those three families. What's there to lose, if you think you have lost out in the previous 28 years?

[FlashGordon]

For me it's a bigger trend, the US are not alone. Race issues should have been enough for people to ignore Trump. At least combined with all the other shit. In the primaries and in the election. It wasn't. But it's wrong to assume everyone voted for Trump because of his stance on race. We shouldn't automatically call them all racists. Some are, but I don't think all of them are. We shouldn't fall into the trap of thinking everyone is behind Trump on every issue, just because they voted for him.

I'll give an example from over here (Sweden). SD is a party who have long been labled racist. They don't want us to accept as many refugees for example. So we get the Syria crisis with all the refugees and all of a sudden the very people who have called SD racist are now saying we cannot accept more refugees, we have to change our policy. But... they also say we are never still gonna work with SD. So your opinion, if you voted SD, is wrong, even when the opponent has accepted it as their own. If this is how the political elite behaves, they can expect a reaction.

Because what have people got to lose? Some will just say fuck it. You ignored me for all these years, I got nothing from you, so I will vote for someone else. Anyone. You have already made fun of me, called me ignorant, stupid, racist etc, so you have no chance to get my vote. Why not go with SD? At least it will send a message... This is where I believe America was. I believe this is the same reason Brexit happened. It's the same pattern. And we can see it elsewhere too. Later this year we will see it in Sweden as well.

The US had experienced 28 years (1988-2016) with three families in power and were facing a potential 8 more years with another one from those three families. What's there to lose, if you think you have lost out in the previous 28 years?

By voting for him they are enabling him to enact all the racist policies he committed to during the campaign trail. They are complicit in a fascist becoming President of the United States. They should be mocked, vilified and never listened to again.

[Red Beret]

Doubt he's flipping. Only last week it was reported he was covertly trying to send emails from jail

Rachel Maddow MSNBC@maddow
Special Counsel's Office says Manafort has been surreptitiously sending emails from jail...

He's either desperate or an idiot, or both.  Does he even know what he's trying to accomplish anymore?  I think a part of his brain still can't quite fathom this is happening to him and that he can wish it all away with a snap of his fingers.

[Gnurglan]

This. One million percent this. Trump is a fascist. Le Pen is a fascist. Frottage is a fascist and although I know Frottage was not the entire Brexit “movement,” the so-called reasonable Brexiters won by doing their best Frottage impression. These are basic facts.

 These politicians, these ‘’movements,” they are all fascist. Frottage and Le Pen are different to Trump in the sense they tried to hide their true colours; with Le Pen it was an incredibly disciplined detoxification campaign, with Frottage it was the normalisation of fascism through the politics of personality. Again, I think these are very basic facts.

Trump was different. From the word go, he displayed his fascism to the world. He owned it. He was proud of it. Of course he would deny it, then double down on it in the next sentence. Donald Trump told the world in very simple terms who he was and what he stood for. If you supported Trump then you were either too stupid to know what fascism is or you simply didn’t care.

 There’s a whole load of bollocks being talked about Trump voters, and about people who support these other fascist scumbags. They’re misunderstood. They’re disadvantaged. They’ll be alienated if we dismiss them as straight up c*nts. You know what? I couldn’t disagree more. The stupid ones don’t know the meaning of the word “alienated” and the ones that actually are switched on deserve as much respect as the evil bastards they prop up by voting for them and their ideas.

 Fascism was not defeated by “understanding” it. Fascism was not defeated by trying to find common ground. Fascism was defeated by stamping on its evil, murderous throat again and again until it could no longer cough up its own bile. To not do the same again now is to open the door to the jackboots. To the politics of true evil.

 These c*nts have no interest in “understanding” us. We should make no attempt to “understand” them because history has already taught us everything we need to know. We know where this road leads, we know where it ends. People supporting this evil should not get away with it. If they do not change course, history will remember them as nothing more than vermin, and that’s all they deserve.

 Unless of course they win. Which I think right now is likely.

 Edit: in relation to ny comment about “stamping on the throat” of fascism, I obviously refer not just to the war against Nazism and the twisted branches that leer out from that most poisonous of trees but to political correctness. Political correctness has had its faults and I’ve said as much on these pages more times than I care to remember but ultimately, all PC is is an attempt to find an inclusive discourse which makes as many people as possible feel comfortable. Ten years ago, when “PC gone mad” was the buzzphrase, there was national outrage over Nick Griffin having a slot on Question Time. Now, Frottage is hosting Steve Bannon on national radio in the name of “debate.” We are not at the beginning of the descent to fascism, here. We are a long way down the road. It has happened in the blink of an eye and that is why we can’t waste time debating these bastards.

This is perhaps the problem. It happened so fast. The digital revolution, that made it easier for small groups to get a huge audience. Combine it with globalism. And ask yourself if this isn't what we were told was gonna be so good. You buy cheap products from China, we can sell our products to everyone. We can travel anywhere and communicate with everyone, from anywhere at any time. There are no losers. Or? How about industries moving abroad and how about unemployment rates? Because it's cheaper to produce in China. How about having to fund other EU countries' development and then their crisis (Greece?)? Is it any wonder that people start saying ’hang on, let us take care of our own first? There you have, with some modification, Trump's ”America first”. There you have Brexit. Because immediately, you get people say the cheap labour from abroad should instead become better paid jobs for the locals. So - immigrants out.

I don't know what to do about it, except for maybe locally. But I don't think we are talking about simple fascism or racism that we can go out and beat with ease. Trump is doing his best to wreck everything and I struggle to see anything positive with that. We have a problem to deal with and he just tries to get there as fast as possible, with no plan.

[FlashGordon]

Brexit will do nothing to help the poor and will just deepen the divide between the rich and the poor. Not sure your logic links up? The gullible masses were fed a load of shite by most likely Russian backed well off arseholes that won't have to deal with the consequences of their actions on both sides of the pond.