Topic: Doesn't matter who you vote for as long as it's for the right reasons!

[Indomitable_Carp]

Yeah I don´t necessarily see it. Looking at the US, all of the negative effects of Trump´s presidency seem to have just solidified the "them" and "us" mentality among his core base.

With the Tories and their press actively playing up these US style culture wars, I am not convinced that the economic or visible impacts of a No Deal Brexit are going to lead to this sudden sea change in public opinion.

Although the Tories may lose ground, as Snail said a scary alternative would be for all these newly won Red Wall votes to swing further to the Little Englander extreme.

[vblfc]

Yeah I don´t necessarily see it. Looking at the US, all of the negative effects of Trump´s presidency seem to have just solidified the "them" and "us" mentality among his core base.

With the Tories and their press actively playing up these US style culture wars, I am not convinced that the economic or visible impacts of a No Deal Brexit are going to lead to this sudden sea change in public opinion.

Although the Tories may lose ground, as Snail said a scary alternative would be for all these newly won Red Wall votes to swing further to the Little Englander extreme.

Sadly, this is pretty much populism

[Zeb]

As James Johnson says, this is populism without the popularity. There's a hard core of a Brexit vote, and we could stereotype from what we know, but there's not that '40% whatever he does' vote Trump relies on. It's a fraction of that. Some of it kind of reminds of other recent examples of where very noisy social media wasn't perhaps the best guide to broader opinion. What if they held a culture war and no-one turned up?

[TSC]

As James Johnson says, this is populism without the popularity. There's a hard core of a Brexit vote, and we could stereotype from what we know, but there's not that '40% whatever he does' vote Trump relies on. It's a fraction of that. Some of it kind of reminds of other recent examples of where very noisy social media wasn't perhaps the best guide to broader opinion. What if they held a culture war and no-one turned up?

Most know what we get with Johnson; incompetence and laziness, totally unaware of his brief.  The unknown is the unelected Cummings of course.

Watching clips of Rayner (standing in for Starmer) in PMQs earlier and apparently Johnson will also face committee questions at 330.

[Nobby Reserve]

Most know what we get with Johnson; incompetence and laziness, totally unaware of his brief.  The unknown is the unelected Cummings of course.

Watching clips of Rayner (standing in for Starmer) in PMQs earlier and apparently Johnson will also face committee questions at 330.

How did she do?

[TSC]

How did she do?

Couple of clips on sky news was similar in approach to Starmer.  Seen one where she countered ‘these are your numbers PM’.  Johnson blustered the usual ‘we are getting on with delivering for this country while the opposition snipe from sidelines’ (paraphrased).

[TSC]

Greg Clark tying Johnson in knots from the off re Covid testing capacity.  Johnson blaming the public for requesting tests with no symptoms.  Johnson admits there’s insufficient capacity currently.  Johnson says capacity for 500k tests per day will be in place by end October (apparently contradicts previous comments from Hancock who promised same by an earlier date).

[TSC]

So an inquiry into governments handling of the Covid pandemic would not be a good use of official time at the moment, according to Johnson.

[Zeb]

Greg Clark tying Johnson in knots from the off re Covid testing capacity.  Johnson blaming the public for requesting tests with no symptoms.  Johnson admits there’s insufficient capacity currently.  Johnson says capacity for 500k tests per day will be in place by end October (apparently contradicts previous comments from Hancock who promised same by an earlier date).

"Of course there'll be an inquiry into what's gone wrong." Pause. "Oh and what's gone right. And what's gone right."

Aye.

[TSC]

Why does government need to go further than allowed under ‘article 16’ of the withdrawal agreement, and why did you not have an issue with it before signing off on it?  Bluster of a response from Johnson.  Wittering on about maybe the EU will withdraw some ‘extreme’ requirements.

[TSC]

Lord King has resigned then and apparently Tories have reached some sort of arrangement with the potential ‘rebel’ MPs re the breaking of the EU withdrawal agreement.

[Zeb]

There's a huge disconnect between Lord Keen resigning with a letter saying "I can't be part of the government if you plan to break the law" and Tories, who know this themselves, waving a fig leaf of "We'll only break the law if the parliamentary Tory party thinks it's in its own best interests".

[Red-Soldier]

There's a huge disconnect between Lord Keen resigning with a letter saying "I can't be part of the government if you plan to break the law" and Tories, who know this themselves, waving a fig leaf of "We'll only break the law if the parliamentary Tory party thinks it's in its own best interests".

Did you expect anything more??

[Zeb]

Did you expect anything more??

Obviously not from several posts on the subject.

[Red-Soldier]

Obviously not from several posts on the subject.

Which posts are you referring to??

[Mr Benn please?]

Couple of clips on sky news was similar in approach to Starmer.  Seen one where she countered ‘these are your numbers PM’.  Johnson blustered the usual ‘we are getting on with delivering for this country while the opposition snipe from sidelines’ (paraphrased).

Like shooting fish in a barrel. Probably any of Labour's current front bench could wipe the floor with Johnson. You'd think that anyone who went to Eton and Oxford would be good at public speaking and debating, but  I don't think I've ever seen a politician as bad at it as he is. Even May, who even at her most robotic at least was on top of the details, so could rebuff attacks without having to revert to bluster and name calling. I am genuinely amazed he has got this far without being able to master even the basic skills needed to be a politician.

[12C]

Etonian Kevin
“Your so unfair. You keep telling me to do my homework. I hate you all.”

I absolutely detest Johnson. Not because he is an upperclass fraud, or a feckless father, or a lying twat.
It’s because he genuinely believes he some how exempt from the norms of society even when it means he is causing yet more deaths with his incompetence!

[rafathegaffa83]

Lisa Nandy@lisanandy
The voting system Rees Mogg forced through is in chaos tonight. The card readers have broken and MPs are stuck in long queues unable to social distance. Many of us are about to travel home to towns and cities across the country. This government is beyond irresponsible

[Commie Bobbie]

Evening all,

I've thought about doing a separate thread about a thought that I have had grow on me over the last week or so, especially since Johnson announced the Rule of Six offensive - but here goes.

Is the mood in your community, amongst your friends, family, online presence starting to wane a bit darker. I think at the start of all this - we knew that the incompetence ran deep within the administration of this country however some naively thought we would be out of the choppy waters by now. As the nights get longer and the mercury supposedly starts to drop - has the penny dropped that we have a tough Autumn, and a potentially brutal winter coming?

I have been signed off for the last few months due to my ongoing mental health situation, so it may be me - but even at that time, I thought that the majority of people were bearing up really well at that point - but certainly since last week - I have felt that the mood towards the administration of this country and their media voices is getting less piss-taking and more angry.

[Zeb]

Which posts are you referring to??

Check the Brexit thread which discussed how this was a very likely outcome. It's not expectations that's the point, it's that the government sat on Keen's resignation all day to release it at the same time as a sunny statement about how they've reassured Bob Neill and other MP friends when even Bob Neill and friends know that what they were asking for wasn't even the minimum necessary to avoid problems.

[Circa1892]

Evening all,

I've thought about doing a separate thread about a thought that I have had grow on me over the last week or so, especially since Johnson announced the Rule of Six offensive - but here goes.

Is the mood in your community, amongst your friends, family, online presence starting to wane a bit darker. I think at the start of all this - we knew that the incompetence ran deep within the administration of this country however some naively thought we would be out of the choppy waters by now. As the nights get longer and the mercury supposedly starts to drop - has the penny dropped that we have a tough Autumn, and a potentially brutal winter coming?

I have been signed off for the last few months due to my ongoing mental health situation, so it may be me - but even at that time, I thought that the majority of people were bearing up really well at that point - but certainly since last week - I have felt that the mood towards the administration of this country and their media voices is getting less piss-taking and more angry.

The circles I mix in are fuming - but people like my mum and dad who don't mix in politics etc - yes they seem angry, frustrated, scared etc - but it's not directed towards anyone. I think Johnson and co are still like teflon.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Evening all,

I've thought about doing a separate thread about a thought that I have had grow on me over the last week or so, especially since Johnson announced the Rule of Six offensive - but here goes.

Is the mood in your community, amongst your friends, family, online presence starting to wane a bit darker. I think at the start of all this - we knew that the incompetence ran deep within the administration of this country however some naively thought we would be out of the choppy waters by now. As the nights get longer and the mercury supposedly starts to drop - has the penny dropped that we have a tough Autumn, and a potentially brutal winter coming?

I have been signed off for the last few months due to my ongoing mental health situation, so it may be me - but even at that time, I thought that the majority of people were bearing up really well at that point - but certainly since last week - I have felt that the mood towards the administration of this country and their media voices is getting less piss-taking and more angry.

I think that this is a long time for people not to be able to do the things that they enjoy.

I love going to the footy, seeing my mates, going on walks around Liverpool and on nice days walking to pubs and chilling. Plus you have the other things; meals with the missus, the cinema, the theatre and 100 other things.

All that is gone or curtailed or hassle.

I really enjoy my own company and in work I find I can be a lot more productive than normal (Even though normally I'm very productive anyway) but this is a problem in itself. I forget to get up and move about and do stuff. So you end up sitting there for hours on end, day after day. This isn't good for you.

I have to force myself to go on walks and to do exercise, but with everything, it's very hard to do and every hard to stay committed and motivated to train.


I think the real problem will come when it gets past a year. I think mentally I'm thinking 'It's just a year.. it's just a year' - but once we go over that year then you will start thinking 'More than a year.. more than a year... How much more?!"

[TepidT2O]

Best wishes to you Bobbie

Never nice to hear of anyone suffering...  always a place to chat here... even if we are a load of arseholes

[Commie Bobbie]

Best wishes to you Bobbie

Never nice to hear of anyone suffering...  always a place to chat here... even if we are a load of arseholes

Appreciate that - its been brutal - working from home, especially with what we now know is PTSD, Autism and Clinical depression and Anxiety, I look back on the opening few months and think its a minor miracle I lasted that long before breaking - that and not being able to DJ on the side means that I have had to find other means and ways to occupy myself - which has meant more drinking and more eating - urgh - though Netflix has been a literal life-saver at points. I have been producing more stuff - so I need to get that on Bandcamp soonish! I have said I'll get back to the gym, work has been outstanding financially  - so I'm not needing to worry on that side for about another six weeks or so - though I have swallowed my pride and applied for PIP - which apparently with my conditions I was eligible for all of this sodding time!

We were due to head over to Amsterdam in October, for a few days of drinking and dancing, that has got cancelled, so Berlin in February, and Liverpool for Easter weekend is now the plan. For now. If I was to have a bet on it - I'd wager 2/1 that somehow that can't happen.

The circles I mix in are fuming - but people like my mum and dad who don't mix in politics etc - yes they seem angry, frustrated, scared etc - but it's not directed towards anyone. I think Johnson and co are still like teflon.

I think my circles are getting angrier and angrier that we are being to blamed for the infection rate steadily increasing - but what was supposed to sodding happen, when you tell people to Eat Out To Go Out, to get back on Public Transport and go back into office - and yet - it seems the latest lockdown in the Rhondda is partly down to infection rates increasing thanks to a trip to Doncaster races - which would have been given the thumbs up by this shambles of a government.

My mother and sister voted Tory at the last election, they have lost faith in their Spiritual Leader, Johnson - and any move for there to be marshalls patrolling shopping centres have gone down as well as a bucket of cold sick online - with a lot of self-confessed Tories/Hard Brexiteers getting the piss taken out of them, but you're right - in our circles its going to be raging. And yet, I will argue that this government's incompetence during all of this, is helping sow deep unease regarding any potential 2nd lockdown.

I see the anti-vax, anti-mask lot are doing another protest in the capital this weekend - how are the authorities going to deal with that?

[Sammy5IsAlive]

Evening all,

I've thought about doing a separate thread about a thought that I have had grow on me over the last week or so, especially since Johnson announced the Rule of Six offensive - but here goes.

Is the mood in your community, amongst your friends, family, online presence starting to wane a bit darker. I think at the start of all this - we knew that the incompetence ran deep within the administration of this country however some naively thought we would be out of the choppy waters by now. As the nights get longer and the mercury supposedly starts to drop - has the penny dropped that we have a tough Autumn, and a potentially brutal winter coming?

I have been signed off for the last few months due to my ongoing mental health situation, so it may be me - but even at that time, I thought that the majority of people were bearing up really well at that point - but certainly since last week - I have felt that the mood towards the administration of this country and their media voices is getting less piss-taking and more angry.

It's not easy to say. I'd say that from my perspective and the people I know everybody was pretty disillusioned with the government from pretty early on as it became apparent that we were overtaking the rest of Europe in terms of death rates despite having more warning than the likes of Spain/Italy. That obviously hasn't gone away as things have developed.

That said I've not seen the mood wane much darker recently. It's been pretty clear from a long way out that we are in this for the long run and myself and most of the people I know have been acting accordingly and have 'battened down the hatches' mental health wise. We've withdrawn from reading the news and getting involved with the social media shenanigans and shifted to dealing with each day as it comes and making the most of what we are allowed to do.

Over the last few years there has been very little to celebrate about being British. But I do think that for all of the bad stuff we do still retain a certain resilience/stubbornness in our national psyche that I think is a small thing to be celebrated. In my experience most are trying to make the best of what is a very shit situation.

Put another way - I think that people are expending enough energy looking after themselves and their immediate circumstances that there isn't a lot left over to really get angry at the government.

[Edit - If you are having any problems with PIP feel free to drop me a PM - that is my day job. Hope things start looking up for you personally soon]

[Machae]

Good lord 

Chris Grayling to advise ports operator in £100,000 role

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54185180

[No666]

Telegraph have basically told Johnson they'll be campaigning for a new PM by next Spring --

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/16/boris-johnson-has-six-months-left-save-premiership/

[12C]

Good lord 

Chris Grayling to advise ports operator in £100,000 role

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54185180

Shareholders are happy that a totally crap man gets £100k for 7 hrs a week.
Why?
Javid works for a bank whilst still an MP. How?

Corruption in plain sight.

[TSC]

Good lord 

Chris Grayling to advise ports operator in £100,000 role

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54185180

Advise on how to make profits without boats?

[So… Howard Philips]

Advise on how to make profits without boats?

Was it his new employers "boats" he hired?

[Lusty]

Telegraph have basically told Johnson they'll be campaigning for a new PM by next Spring --

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/16/boris-johnson-has-six-months-left-save-premiership/

It'll be Gove anyway, and the Cummings show will continue.  Much as I'd love to see him get knifed in the back by his own party, I don't think it will change much.

[Crumble]

It'll be Gove anyway, and the Cummings show will continue.  Much as I'd love to see him get knifed in the back by his own party, I don't think it will change much.

Not sure about this. I put a few quid on Jeremy C*nt, in case enough crap sticks to Gove and the other brexiteers in chief. I gather also that Gove isn't well liked by many MPs. Although it seems that the whole country hates Hunt, which is possibly a negative.

[Zeb]

Will Sunak play the Major role or the Johnson one? The loyal to the end Chancellor or find a reason to resign to create room for a perception of difference? My money would be on the latter. Especially if he's punting the budget into next year.

There is always something wonderful about the political columnists who can write what boils down to "If only X wasn't the person we all know him/her to be, things would be a lot better. Who could have foreseen such calamities from them not changing?"

[Lusty]

Not sure about this. I put a few quid on Jeremy C*nt, in case enough crap sticks to Gove and the other brexiteers in chief. I gather also that Gove isn't well liked by many MPs. Although it seems that the whole country hates Hunt, which is possibly a negative.

Oh God.

[Circa1892]

Will Sunak play the Major role or the Johnson one? The loyal to the end Chancellor or find a reason to resign to create room for a perception of difference? My money would be on the latter. Especially if he's punting the budget into next year.

Sunak is the chosen one from that lot. He's Cummings and co's errand boy. Johnson is a useful idiot, but Javid pretty much outed Sunak as a front for Cummings when he quit.

[Zeb]

Sunak is the chosen one from that lot. He's Cummings and co's errand boy. Johnson is a useful idiot, but Javid pretty much outed Sunak as a front for Cummings when he quit.

Think Cummings out will be one of the prerequisites from the men in grey suits any one of them would happily oblige if it got them to number 10? Bigger issue may be the membership which is weirder than ever thanks to their sizeable Kipper infusion to get Johnson, suits likes of Raab if they can get into the last two which should be possible unless there's a real effort to unite behind one candidate. Some months, and a lot more failure, to go yet though.

[12C]

Not sure about this. I put a few quid on Jeremy C*nt, in case enough crap sticks to Gove and the other brexiteers in chief. I gather also that Gove isn't well liked by many MPs. Although it seems that the whole country hates Hunt, which is possibly a negative.

Another cousin of the queen.
Hunt is another one who is crap l

[killer-heels]

The new Beeb boss has already had stamped his influence. QT was packed with pro Tory loons.

Thankfully and for a change the audience fought back in the right, ir should that be the left direction.

[oldfordie]

The new Beeb boss has already had stamped his influence. QT was packed with pro Tory loons.

Thankfully and for a change the audience fought back in the right, ir should that be the left direction.

Yeah, far better than it was under the old format, audience brilliant, how Johnson hyperbolic language about everything being world beating etc is starting to peeve them off,   liked the way the audience wouldn't be palmed off with usual bull... answers. very surprised as they challenged the replies with some great points.
Billionaire John Cordwell was no better than a Kipper. everything he said was way over the top. it's all the nasty EUs fault as they are trying to bully us, thankfully Mays gone and we have St Boris to protect us.
Nadhim Zahawi first words "We are doing a 140.000 tests a day. Bruce stares in disbelief and checks the figures, no your not, the governments own figures released today say 81.000 tests a day.
Capacity maybe 140.000 but that's irrelevant if people can't get tested. Zahawi moves on quickly.

[killer-heels]

Yeah, far better than it was under the old format, audience brilliant, how Johnson hyperbolic language about everything being world beating etc is starting to peeve them off,   liked the way the audience wouldn't be palmed off with usual bull... answers. very surprised as they challenged the replies with some great points.
Billionaire John Cordwell was no better than a Kipper. everything he said was way over the top. it's all the nasty EUs fault as they are trying to bully us, thankfully Mays gone and we have St Boris to protect us.
Nadhim Zahawi first words "We are doing a 140.000 tests a day. Bruce stares in disbelief and checks the figures, no your not, the governments own figures released today say 81.000 tests a day.
Capacity maybe 140.000 but that's irrelevant if people can't get tested. Zahawi moves on quickly.

I like how the Professor from Oxford Uni basically knew she had fucked up when she said the virus wasnt that dangerous and spent the whole show answering every question with the line “i didnt mean to say it isnt dangerous....”.

By the time the EU question came around to her I think she realised that she had made a complete cock of herself, did the right thing and shut the fuck up. Fiona Bruce didnt involve her much again either because I think she realised she was a bit mental.