Author Topic: PL: Liverpool (4) Salah 20', Mane 46', 52, S v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm.  (Read 52919 times)

Offline jillcwhomever

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Liverpool v West Ham United – Sunday Aug 12th 2018 1:30PM BST

Week 1 – 2018/2019 Season   

                                                            “We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope”
                                                                                                                                  - Martin Luther King Jr.


Hello RAWK!  Welcome back to our journey that is Liverpool Football Club for 2018-19. 

I sit here this evening writing up this OP totally disgusted with myself, devoid of original thinking and leaking any semblance of authentic thought into other areas of the RAWK universe – political, gambling, media, and the prophetic ARSE transfer forum.  But I digress…

It seems like almost an eternity since we last gathered to worship at Anfield’s altar with this much optimism and hope for a new season.  Muted by the cruelty of our loss in Kiev, and the uncertainty of the World Cup, many a rawkite could have found themselves balled up in the fetal position singing arrete arrete arrete as the transfer window opened.   

And it was about this time of the year, post-Champions League Final, when I started thinking about what it truly means to hope.  What does it mean to hope (in life and in the beautiful game)? This thought was rolling through my mind’s alley looking for a 6-10 split.

Jurgen talks about hope as “believing” and many a poster here in RAWK with previous in the concept crushed their keyboards to suggest it meant backing players come hell or high water.   

As someone who is/was bitterly disappointed by how close we came last season, I am reminded that "no good thing ever dies". Conversely, I am also a bumbling witness to daily rope-a-dope hope in the form of watching the miracle of my two-year old boy grow up before my eyes. My son thinks hope and majesty reside next door to one another.


Hope Theme & OP Structure

Nonetheless, the question keeps coming back to me, what makes me so hopeful about the future?  And this is when the keyboard flicks and clicks slow down to a snail’s pace.  After a while interrogating the subject of hope like I am writing directionally towards an outcome, it seems contrived and indulgent.  It feels more hopeless than inspired.

So, like any good Beatles supporter, I decided to get a little help from my friends.   

Maybe they can navigate the darkness to unearth the light and hope that is LFC?  Get your coffee ready and enjoy this longer OP, a collaborative effort to start this season: Allez Allez Allez Team!


Below are six questions I asked a few RAWK friends regarding hope/upcoming season.


1. What is the best example (observed, visual or written) you remember from last season of "walking on - through wind and rain, hopes tossed and blown?"

2. What is the best example/picture you remember from the last of that provides you hope for this season?

3. Which new addition to LFC's team will have the biggest impact?

4. What is the biggest surprise that our team will have in store for us this season?

5. What questions do you have about this team heading into this historic season?

6. If this season had a theme (musical, visual depiction or written) what would it be?



It is my sincere desire you find meaning in their answers. I would personally like to thank each of these fine writers for their contribution to this project, and conversations, helping us understand the topic better before LFC plays their first game of the season on Sunday. 

If posters would like to contribute their own ideas in the thread to these questions, I think it would be an amazing mosaic of thought, so feel free to answer and post your own ideas.

Again special thanks to the lads participating in this OP for their time and insight:

VivaBobbyGraham
Djozer
E2K
Foregone Conclusion (Hazell)
Harley Danger


Walk On – Wind, Rain, and Hopes Tossed & Blown

What is the best example (observed, visual or written) you remember from last season of "walking on - through wind and rain, hopes tossed and blown?"


VivaBobbyGraham

“For me, watching the video of Shevchenko Park pre CL Final, with the good vibrations coming out of there acted as a reminder this club is back where it belongs at the top table”



<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/WwMml3ZQA84" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/WwMml3ZQA84</a>


Harley Danger

“When everything was going wrong in the final, Salah has been UFC’d, Karius was bashed and losing his mind, Welshmen we’re doing bicycle kicks and we had a bench as barren as Thatcher’s heart, one person stood up that really surprised me, and that was Mane. Sadio looked brave, proud and not beaten.  He got up time and again, talked to his teammates, took responsibility. As the game petered out, he still got up, talked to his teammates, took responsibility. Of course we lost, and it hurt, but I think Mane took a big step forward that night, and I think this season he is going to be that pride and fight every great team needs in it to push start the Rolls Royce’s when they’re bogged in the mud.”




E2K

“It may not be a popular choice with some, but Loris Karius’ tears as he approached the Liverpool supporters after the final whistle in Kiev last May is about as vivid a representation of “hopes tossed and blown” as you’ll ever see on a football pitch. Whatever else anyone thinks of the lad, surely we can all agree on that much.

What came out afterwards about the concussion he had suffered moments before his role in the bizarre incident, which led to Karim Benzema’s opener that night has been thoroughly dissected, of course, and dismissed by many as nothing more than excuses after the fact. While his performances so far in pre-season have done nothing to dispel the notion that he’s just a shit goalkeeper. However, if historical accuracy is a concept that floats your boat in the slightest, then even a cursory glance through “League of Denial” by Mark and Steve Fainaru would paint a picture less of a team being robbed by the shortcomings of an incompetent ‘keeper that night and more of one whose hopes were destroyed by the second of two acts of outrageous thuggery perpetrated across the 90 minutes, (as well as perhaps the greatest goal ever scored in a European Cup final).

Anyway, and not that it matters now, his act of contrition, those two open palms offered in remorse as he cried his eyes out in a mixture of anguish and confusion so intense that it almost seemed like it could absorb our own, is also as good a representation that I can think of from last season of “walking on”, as you put it. He’ll have to continue doing it for the rest of his time at Liverpool, arguably for the rest of his career. I hope for his sake he doesn’t have to do it alone because that’s not supposed to be what we’re about.”



Hazell

“Hmmm, a specific example is really tough as even though we didn't win a trophy, there were so many moments that I'll remember for a long time. The Man City games were the most memorable, they were the best team in the league last season and when we had eleven players on the pitch, we battered them for the most part. Specifically, the league game at Anfield and that spell of organized chaos in the second half where we were all over them, that was special. We've done it to top sides before Klopp arrived too, but this was different - it wasn't just the crowd carrying the team, it was Klopp and the players themselves too. We did it numerous times last season but the game and the opposition made it that little bit more special.

The Champions League run would encapsulate that feeling of relentlessness too and it was the first time since Rafa where I believed we could beat anyone, especially once we got to the knockout rounds. Those games against Man City and Roma sit alongside the Juventus, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Chelsea and Arsenal ones as special moments that will live long in the memory.”

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/ThnOm8Qw6BE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/ThnOm8Qw6BE</a>
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/UV4Uy0CvjDc" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/UV4Uy0CvjDc</a>


Djozer

“Not sure how fitting this is, but New Year’s day sticks in the mind. I was as hungover as I’ve been in some time, and a match against Burnley didn’t seem like it would provide much succor, and for a long time it didn’t. Burnley were Burnleying, as Burnley tend to do.  Ashley Barnes was backing into our defenders and then falling over and the ref bought it every time, as refs tend to do for good honest Englanders, and our lads weren’t finding anything really. No Bobby or Mo didn’t help. Then Mane rifles one into the roof of the net and all was right with the world.

Couple of minutes from the end and they equalized, a typically shitty Burnley goal – ball lobbed in, header, header, net - and it was the most deflating thing ever. Five minutes of abject depression followed, and then we hoisted them by their own hoofball petard for a last minute winner, and I spent the rest of the day laughing, hangover clean forgotten.

I properly hate Burnley, so this one sticks in the memory for that reason, but also because we didn’t seem to get many dramatic late goals last season and I think we need that doggedness and willingness to fight to the death as much as the arse-kicking one touch surgical beautiful footy we’ve become associated with.”

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/u7JDDyT3pNw" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/u7JDDyT3pNw</a>


Five intelligent souls; five different answers! Sadio, Loris, Supporters at Shevchenko Park, Burnley & Blue Moon battering! What is your moment LFC walked on through it all, hopes tossed and blown?



Hope in Your Heart

What is the best example you remember from last season that provides you hope for this season?

Djozer

            This.


       

VivaBobbyGraham

             Three victories over City. Simple as that. We are better on any given day. This season we shall be better every day


       

                         
                       

Hazell

         The end of the Champions League final, there is nothing I wanted more in the immediate aftermath of that match than for the next 
         season to start and to get back there again.




E2K

The obvious answer would be to choose any one of a number of moments during the run to Kiev where the club showed that it belonged amongst Europe’s best once again. However, my choice is Big Virgil finally arriving at Anfield days before the January transfer window opened (and watching as Mo Salah dismantled Harry Maguire to complete Liverpool’s comeback win against Leicester).



It is not just because Van Dijk is a quality player who addressed an obvious weakness, it’s what his signing represented. I posted something in March 2017 that tried to explore how the rules of engagement for success in football have changed over the years and made the case that you won’t achieve very much of it anymore without a willingness to spend huge amounts of money (Leicester themselves, of course, being the sole recent exception, and they have been through 3 managers and a relegation battle since winning a surprise League title in 2016).

At that point, I would not have dreamed that the club would conduct the kind of business it has in the intervening 16 months — breaking the world transfer record for a defender and its own transfer record in the process (Van Dijk for £75m), obliterating the world record for a goalkeeper (Alisson for over £60m), spending over £50m on Naby Keita, over £40m on Fabinho, and over £35m on both Salah and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain. Even allowing for the sum recouped from the Coutinho transfer and the Champions League prize money, that’s a huge outlay, especially by owners whose reputation had previously tended towards relative frugality.

Where all of this provides me with hope for the season ahead is twofold:

(1) The result of that outlay will be a team that includes Alisson, Van Dijk, Fabinho, Keita and Salah on the opening day. It also means that the back-4 and goalkeeper which conceded 3 sloppy goals at Vicarage Road last August in the process of dropping a couple of points will only retain a much-improved Dejan Lovren and a rapidly maturing Trent Alexander-Arnold, both of whom are returning from successful World Cup campaigns.

(2) The raw ambition that Liverpool have shown with their spending since June 2017 is unlike anything I’ve seen since the Ian Rush money was used to buy Peter Beardsley and John Barnes back in the summer of 1987, and a club that arguably hasn't been able to truly spend competitively relative to its main rivals since the mid-nineties is suddenly at it again. This stuff matters — a look back over where the major trophies have typically ended up in the Premier League/Champions League era will show you that much.

The arrival of Van Dijk in January has turned out to be a massive statement in that context.



Harley Danger


“Honestly, TAA’s horror game against United. You could see a boy that was learning a lesson and taking that lesson in. It pointed to great coaching, in that he was not being taught to play by rote, but rather accept the harsh lesson and not make the same mistakes again. Think through your football. That is what I love about this manager, it seems he does not tell the ‘where’ or ‘how’ to be but rather ‘why’.”

             

Once again, we have five unique answers full of insight, and outstanding reasons for our hope: Mo Salah, Beating the EPL Champions three straight times, Getting to a Final and its meaning, the statement of intent by the club signified by bringing in Van Dyk, and Jürgen’s teaching approach.  All excellent reasons for hope, and speaks how important it is build a process for team.  It is like a hope locomotive! Once the train gets moving, players-coaches-supporters in the holy trinity of the game, it is damn hard to stop.  Oh btw, coach does not want any free riders (yes, Julian Draxler, I am talking about you)!




Which new addition to LFC's team will have the biggest impact? 


Djozer

“I imagine we are all going to say this, but I have never been one to buck a trend, so Naby Keita. In many ways, Alisson’s a bigger statement – look football world, look how big our cock is, we can compete with anyone for the best available players right now and actually get them in as opposed to merely monitoring them aggressively for ages before signing Jack Butland.   But, our defense was actually reasonably solid last year once Van Dijk arrived so I do not think his impact will be as profound, whereas as Keita really looks like he could be football’s version of all things to all men. Aside from aerially (and who cares about that really? If God had intended footy to be played in the air he would have given us all jetpacks or whatever) he genuinely does not seem to have a weakness, and it is terrifying to think how good he could be.

I tried to temper my expectations for a while, but it just became impossible. Whether it was the buildup of anticipation caused by the year’s delay, or the hundreds of Youtube videos showing him snatch a ball, drive past three players and thread a perfect pass through to Werner, or the handful of RBL games I watched, everything I saw about him just screams utter, utter class. The idea of him laying on chances for our front three should petrify every other team in the league. I'm not sure whether he'll be the most advanced of our central midfielders or play a slightly more withdrawn box-to-box role, (the lack of Fekir/similar may lead to him playing the former role more often than not) but wherever he plays I'm almost certain he'll excel.”


Hazell


Keita's the obvious choice. He is an excellent (and unique type of) player and seems suited to the way we play under Klopp. It is hard not to see him having a huge impact on the side, as he seems like the type of player who brings more to a team than just himself. That kind of player can be priceless.  He will add goals from our midfield, not that scoring was much of an issue last season - even against teams that defend deep, we seemed to break them down, particularly in the second half of last season - but it is always nice to goals from different players. And he can be a bit of as shithouse too, so that is something else to look forward to.

Cannot deny I am looking forward to seeing Shaqiri too. I imagine I will be getting frustrated occasionally but also be getting to see a few 'wow' moments.



Harley Danger

Naby for sure. You can already see he is an absolute pearl of a footballer, but he also has that arrogance, fight and grit that great players have.  Gerrard has it. Suarez had it. Naby has it.



E2K

Naby Keita, no doubt in my mind. OK, if Karius is now doomed to never recapture the 4 or 5 months of good form he showed heading into Kiev (sadly a distinct possibility), then Alisson would obviously be the most important new signing. But in terms of improving what was already there? Keita, no question.

Last season was yet another where the defence was blamed for losing points when it was often unfair to do so — 20 points were dropped thanks to the 1-1 draw at home to Burnley, the 1-1 and 0-0 draws against Everton, the 0-0 draws at home to Manchester United, West Brom and Stoke, the 1-1 draw at Newcastle, and the 0-1 defeats at Swansea and Chelsea, a collective (and shocking) return of 3 goals scored in 9 games that would have seen the club reach 95 points had they been won.

The truth is that, once again, the team was too often blunted by the usual suspects, the likes of Allardyce, Dyche, Lambert, Mourinho and Pardew. With that in mind, alongside the fact that the presence of Van Dijk and Robertson has already drastically improved Liverpool’s defence, I’m not going for Alisson, I’m going for Keita.

This lad has the look of someone who can dominate the midfield, both physically and technically, in a way we haven’t seen since Steven Gerrard was at his peak, and his dribbling and passing may very well offset the need for a direct Coutinho replacement for another while at least. In fact, his various attributes suggest a level of versatility that may well replace any and all of Coutinho, Can and Oxlade-Chamberlain depending on how Klopp wants to deploy him. As Daniel Sturridge has said: “I haven’t seen a midfielder like him for a while, I’m being honest. He is something different. It’s crazy. The things he can do with the ball — he can defend, he can pass, he can dribble, he is fast, he is strong. He has got everything.”

He’ll undoubtedly be the difference in a quite a few games and has definite Player of the Year potential as far as I’m concerned, although he was sent off 4 times last season and the media will no doubt seize on any indiscretions. Either way, I can’t wait to see him in meaningful action. He truly looks like he’s got it all.”



VivaBobbyGraham

             Daniel Sturridge



Clearly, our friends will be watching Naby with high expectations. Any arguments for Alisson, Fabinho, or Shaqiri?  Or could a Lloyd Jones or Rafa Camacho rise like our beloved Trent?  Share your thoughts on who gives you hope.  As someone who follows goalkeepers, I might invest in the idea that fewer soft goals will feed the other pieces mentioned here! 


What is the biggest surprise that our team will have in store for us this season?



E2K

“There isn’t much in the realms of what’s realistically possible that would surprise me this season (i.e. I could see Liverpool winning the League or not winning the League. I could see them winning a trophy or two and I could see them winning nothing. But, if there’s something I could realistically see coming to pass that would still surprise me a little bit if it did, it is in the realm of discipline.

Liverpool have been a paragon of virtue since Jurgen Klopp took over, or at least as close as you will get. They were top of the Premier League Fair Play table in 2017/18 (49 points), top again in 2016/17 (54 points) and 9th in 2015/16 (67 points), with only 4 red cards issued to Liverpool players across those equivalent 114 games (and one in the last two campaigns, for Sadio Mané’s clash with Ederson). With Keita having been sent off 4 times himself last season, however, and Fabinho having racked up 52 bookings in 233 appearances at Monaco, I get the sense that things are about to get a lot more physical for Liverpool’s opponents. That could well result in a much “meaner” approach and the club falling down the Fair Play table a little bit. Enough to cause a real surprise? Maybe, but then again…”



Djozer

“Cannot tell you, or it would ruin the surprise.

It may not be a surprise exactly, but something that has an outside chance at best of happening is Sturridge staying fit and providing us with a classy option of the bench, something different when we really need a goal out of nothing. I know he’s not the sprinter he once was and sure, he has a more than passing acquaintance with the physician’s table, but there’s still one hell of a player in there, I just know it. I want to believe.”



Hazell


“I really think we will see a continuation in the way we play from last season, in the way we play and our additions all point to that. I think it will be individuals, who will surprise us.

In that respect, I would say Daniel Sturridge. He is as talented as anyone else in the squad is, but has been virtually invisible since 2014, mainly due to injuries. It would be a pleasant surprise if he's past that now but I still have hope he can stay fit - there's no obvious back up to Firmino and truth be told, it'd be virtually impossible to find one but I'd have Sturridge on paper ahead of anyone else. There are legitimate questions about whether he suits Klopp's style and maybe it is just the fanboy in me, but watching him at his best is ridiculous, he is absolutely, terrific. I really want Karius to come back and have an excellent season - I cannot imagine what he must have felt after the Champions League final - but Alisson's arrival means that will not happen, at least here. Sturridge falls into that category as well, albeit in a different way. Having him at his best again would be a joy. And to add that, he seems a sound bloke too.




Harley Danger

               “Our defense will be the tightest in the league.”  - that's not what Shannon Elizabeth (SHE) said 11 years ago, though. Who knew she had a thing for air traffic controllers?




VivaBobbyGraham

                            “Clean sheets”



Surprise, Surprise!  A meaner more ill-tempered Liverpool, a tighter defense with some clean sheets and the return of Daniel.  All good shouts on this expansive question.



What questions do you have about this team heading into this historic season?


Djozer

“Only the obvious ones really, carryovers from last season mostly.

Can we find better ways of breaking down the bus parkers? I think cleverer, more penetrative passing from midfield is needed for this, perhaps allied to ball carrying and long range shooting. Keita should help hugely in this regard, Lallana too if he can stay fit and recover his 16/17 form. I think we may see Shaqiri centrally too, and his long range shooting could be very useful here. We will definitely need more of a goal threat from midfield if we are to get closer to City.

In the few games where we will likely be under the “cosh a bit” – City and Spurs really and will Alisson’s shot-stopping prove an asset? I am hopeful in this regard too, but it remains to be seen how much of a difference this will make. If he is as good as we hope he is then, we could go a long way towards improving our record against our rivals. This was relatively poor last year, and if we can take more points off them then it should stand us in very good stead for a proper challenge,

Do we really have good enough backup for the front three, or even just enough backup for them full stop? Shaqiri, of course, will play here at times and seems like an astute signing, but I still think the attacking options are not quite as numerous, balanced, or just plain good enough as they could be. Again, I think we will be praying on their fitness.

Which, if any, young players will break through into the first team squad? I'm considering Alexander-Arnold and Gomez to have already done so. From pre-season it seems like Curtis Jones has the best chance, especially if Woodburn heads out on loan, but you'd assume Brewster, Camacho and Grabara in particular might stand an outside chance. Ideally, we have a longer and kinder run in the cups to give some of them an opportunity.

                   


VivaBobbyGraham

                     “None, it is ready”




Harley Danger

“I think this is the most important season since 06. All the work of the last 5 years is coming to a singularity. My question is whether it can gel in time to win the league, we need to get off to a flyer, and then go supersonic. I really hope we get the rub of the green at the beginning, because this is an incredible team Klopp has built.”


Hazell

“Whether they can keep improving. We have done that every season since Klopp arrived but it's always that next step which is the toughest.”




E2K

“I could say the lack of a suitable deputy for Bobby Firmino (depending on the great imponderable of Daniel Sturridge’s fitness) or a replacement for Coutinho but, following on from the last two questions, my biggest doubt would be whether this team will be mean enough to do what we all want it to do.

In the aftermath of Sergio Ramos’ exploits in Kiev last May, a lot of hot air was expended arguing how we’d all love a player like that on our side. Executing a judo take down on one opponent and clobbering another in the face, on a football pitch? Hardly. But there’s nonetheless an undeniable correlation in this game between pushing the envelope as regards what’s acceptable and being successful. Go back and take a look at over 25 years of Alex Ferguson at Manchester United, 16 of Roman Abramovich at Chelsea, 4 European Cups in 5 years for the Real Madrid of Ramos and, if you want, the entire managerial career of José Mourinho. Count every instance of dick-headery and shit-housery perpetrated by their respective teams, if you can. Now count the trophies.

One of my last posts made the argument that:

Successive Liverpool teams going back years have been comparative choirboys next to their major rivals. We all know it. Some of the club’s most agonising defeats of the Premier League era were inflicted by Alex Ferguson’s Manchester United (when their captain wasn’t leading his teammates in a stampede across Old Trafford after a referee for having the temerity to award a penalty against them or carrying out a pre-meditated assault against an opponent, their manager could often be found complaining about fixture conspiracies and insulting rival managers) and José Mourinho’s Chelsea (the bus-parking of May 2014 is the obvious example, but Arjen Robben’s swan dive against Pepe Reina in 2006 should never be forgotten, nor the reaction afterwards of the likes of John Terry and William Gallas who proceeded to jostle the Liverpool ‘keeper and scream in his face).

And:

It probably wouldn’t have made a difference if Liverpool’s players had surrounded the referee and collectively confronted Ramos on Saturday after seeing their teammate driven head and shoulder-first into the ground — such behaviour would have been a rare exception for this team and that kind of cynicism only works if it’s wielded consistently. What we can say with virtual certainty is that if Dejan Lovren had done something similar, or even something relatively innocuous, to Ronaldo, both the big Croat and the referee would have immediately felt the full fury of 8 or 9 white jerseys screaming blue murder in their faces. Go back and look at the most successful teams — Manchester United under Ferguson, Chelsea under Mourinho, Barcelona under Guardiola, now Real under Zidane — and you’ll see a similar pattern.

Zlatan Ibrahimovic, speaking about Chelsea, once described it like this: “It felt like I had a lot of babies around me”. Babies they may have been, but their actions ensured that the PSG star saw red despite the innocuous nature of the challenge. Do we want Liverpool behaving like that? Maybe not to such an extent, but it’s undeniably time to smarten up, from the pitch to the dugout.

A few weeks back, shortly after the disgusting run of penalties not awarded to Liverpool at Anfield this season reached its nadir with an obvious handball in the closing minutes against Stoke (Paul Tomkins has the numbers, and they’re ridiculous), Jurgen Klopp blanked the linesman who failed to give it during the post-match handshakes. It’s hard not to appreciate his restraint, both in the moment and during the interviews that followed, but as consequences go for fucking up on the job and arguably costing the home side a league position (3rd place), it was a relatively minor one. I doubt he’ll be overly concerned about his next visit to Anfield — he may not even remember the incident. You can be sure, however, that had he (correctly) flagged and Liverpool scored from the resulting penalty, he would have been a twitching mess on the floor by the time Paul Lambert was through kicking him.

I do not want my team to torment officials to that degree. I certainly do not want our manager to veer into the kind of territory Mourinho did in 2005 when he outright lied about seeing Anders Frisk and Frank Rijkaard together at half-time in the Nou Camp and provided the catalyst for the death threats that the Swedish official and his family subsequently had to endure. But it’s just too easy for officials to give decisions against us and, conversely, not give decisions for us. And all the while the narrative is allowed to persist that The Kop has any control over any of this, which in turn plants a different kind of seed in the minds of officials coming to Anfield.

The thing is, not all of this is driven by the personalities of the players. Jordan Henderson and James Milner regularly talk to the referee throughout the game, but they do so quietly. Others will speak up regarding individual incidents as they happen. New arrival Naby Keita seems like one who’ll have plenty to say for himself, and both he and Fabinho will undoubtedly add extra bite to the midfield. But influencing and intimidating officials, gaining that edge, that aura, it has to come from the manager. The players need to walk out onto the pitch knowing exactly what’s expected of them in that regard and, what’s more, that their boss will defend them to the death no matter what they say or do on the pitch.

That’s why Ramos typically escapes any meaningful sanction for his behaviour — he is surrounded by powerful people and institutions who protect him, and he in turn walks around like he owns the world. He should have been suspended for the first leg of the semi-final after making his way to the Madrid bench during the 1-3 defeat to Juventus despite being under suspension, and yet he did so with the knowing impunity of a man well aware of his untouchable status. He practically laughed in Allegri’s face while he was at it. It’s the power of the club, its institutions and its willingness to use it that enables such behaviour. That united front is the key.

Klopp talks a lot about anger. I believe he wants his players to use it as an energy (an example he once used is the idea of a team coming to Anfield and wanting to take “our” points — it makes him angry, and the players should be angry too). And who knows, maybe they do “play angry” in that sense. But anger can be used in a different way too, the way Ferguson used it at Manchester United for so long. They went through each season raging at the world and everyone in it — opponents, the media, the FA, officials, everybody. Many were aghast but it worked — it was a small detail that was often a very important one, and only became more so over time. And Real Madrid’s players are either gifted method actors or they genuinely become enraged if an opposition player has the nerve to even breathe in their direction, or the referee the temerity to simply do his job.

Is it the only way to win? No, but it helps.

So yeah, a big fear is that Liverpool simply continue to be “nice” for another year, something I don’t think they can really afford to do if they want to be successful. Real certainly weren’t “nice” in Kiev, a game that cost Liverpool a 6th European Cup. Tottenham’s Harry Kane and Erik Lamela certainly weren’t “nice” at Anfield when they dived for two penalties that helped, in the long run, to cost Liverpool 3rd place. The only people you really impress by being “nice” are neutrals and hypcorites, but you know the number one truth about those teams I mentioned earlier, the likes of Ferguson’s Manchester United, Ramos’ Real, every team Mourinho has ever managed? The trophies they won made their supporters happy. In the end, does it really matter what anyone else thinks?


Some excellent answers regarding questions still to face Liverpool this season.  We have anger/aggression as a topic, taking the next step and progressing as a team to achieve some glory as another, solving some of carryover questions quickly and then a brave soul, who like Jurgen says, we have what need already.

 Cue the theme music to friends by the Remembrandts.  I'll Be There For You!



The Golden Sky


If this season had a theme (musical, visual depiction or written) what would it be?


Djozer

                    Gandalf the Grey in a Ride of the Valkyries Moment

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/xeRwBiu4wfQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/xeRwBiu4wfQ</a>


VivaBobbyGraham

                          Apocalypse Now

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/36RjVOi32sA" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/36RjVOi32sA</a>


Hazell

That's tough, I'm not an abstract person. Klopp. He's at the centre of everything we do and rightly so. Any picture of him  celebrating but if I had to pick one, it'd be this after my favourite goal from last season.





E2K

           Anger, and from that anger, ruthlessness. But anger first, second, third and fourth.


 An anger that matches Jürgen Klopp:


"I spoke in a press briefing after the West Ham win about wanting to see the players angry. I want to elaborate on that in this column, as I think it is important. It isn’t the case that I want the players to be burdened by the responsibility or to display body-language and emotion that suggests they are devoid of joy, happiness or satisfaction in their lives and work. It’s about the mentality they display and the approach to their work and the matches.

I have spoken before about the importance of aggression. This is very much the same thing. Aggression has a negative context, as does anger. But in professional sport and football in particular it can be the greatest of attributes and a massive positive. You can be aggressive in your running, aggressive in your passion, your encouragement, aggressive in your greed to win. I don’t and have never meant aggressive by looking to hurt someone else. One of my most important values in football is that the only person you should ever be willing to hurt on a football pitch is yourself, never an opponent.

So, as with aggression, I want my players to display the positive traits of being angry. It means don’t be satisfied, don’t be complacent, don’t think the job is done. Stay focused, stay hungry, stay alert, stay aggressive. View each game as a battle to be won. View each opponent as being someone who is coming to take something away from you, that you desperately want and need.

In each game we want the win — don’t forget that so do the other guys, they want it just as much — and this should keep you angry as a sportsperson. If you look at the very best sportspeople in history and in the present day, you see something in their eyes that makes you think that when they are competing they cannot ever be happy or satisfied. This is what I want from us now."

I suppose this all comes under the umbrella of “mentality”, but no, I want anger. Fuck it. It should be raw, powerful, visceral, at all times. It should be fueled by the injustices of Kiev and ensure that the furnace is white hot across the entire season and especially if Liverpool happen to cross paths with Real Madrid again.


Harley Danger

              The Triffads - Wide Open Road

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/CiLlRXUU3DE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/CiLlRXUU3DE</a>



Trend's Hope Springs Eternal: Summer of Intention - Part 2 of the OP
 

The 2018 summer was one to remember for Liverpool FC, Michael Edwards, and Jurgen Klopp. They pulled off a transfer window to remember.  Not only were our beautiful red execs patient, sorting out Keita’s transfer early doors, but LFC flew under the radar to stealthily “nab the fab” in a smart deal to begin the window.  Fabinho in tow, we moved on from "fab to nab" and back again-off again.


Knees are a funny body part to understand, let alone to invest millions.  And so, we moved on from the clusterfek of Lyon, and signed a controversial figure, more reminiscent of an X-man villain than a handpicked Klopp playmaker. 
 
 
     
               
However, it did not take long for the fretful faithful in RAWK to see how this Swiss army knife, fire hydrant, and lock picker could exploit the premier league in a brand new Liverpool set up.  Signing Shaqiri from Stoke City turns out to be the soccer equivalent of Andy Dufresne’s famous Shawshank quote for Shaq (where Stoke City in this analogy is football death):

                        “I guess it comes down to a simple choice, really. Get busy living or get busy dying.”


 
 


A secondary benefit with Shaqiri’s transfer is the possible gratification that comes with proving both Charlie Adam and Gary Neville wrong.  This kind of hopeful gravy could inspire many a feast this season, maybe even buy a bucket of suds from the hardest screws in Manchester. 

By the summer’s mid-point, Liverpool supporters had to be enthusiastic about business and hopeful we were going to make another big splash.  But after the final in Kiev, many a supporter took a Byron Hadley approach to Loris Karius wanting to throw our keeper off the nearest rooftop.  While others recognized “some things are best left unsaid”, as every man has his breaking point.  Maybe the circle of life will come around for him, especially after a significant ovation at Anfield this week.

However, with Mignolet up for parole and Karius locked in the hole, isolation/ 2nd keeper, Alisson signed for Liverpool. Becker rode into Merseyside confident, ready for Liverpool.  We liked him immediately!  This big, transfer fee record-breaking heap of a man was something out of a movie.  67 million reasons for hope and red intention. 


           
I Hope!      



One of the greatest depictions of hope on screen involves a fellow “Red”.

Ellis Boyd Redding, a cynic for most of his life, reminds us how easily humans institutionalize to their surroundings. There must be a supporter like him in every club.  A man who knows how to get his hands on things, has seen it all, and where the desire for redemption gets lost in the danger of hope, often left devastated unwilling to invest more time and emotion.   

And there is a supporter in every club who is like Andy Dufresne.  A believer, high achiever and a feathered friend who will not be caged.  Like their friendships, supporters need other to get better as well --- even not unlike our boys.  There will be ups and downs this season, but lets not forget each other through the muck and mire.

In my opinion, this is what makes our club so great ---- our currency is hope and we do it better than anyone.  Allez Allez Allez.

After all, maybe this season is our Zihuatanejo, an endless panoramic of dreams without memory.  A place where friends and believers congregate, tell stories, and share in the golden sky.   


West Ham Lineup, Odds & Current News

I could spend a lot of time and tell you about the improvement in the transfer market for the hammers.   Or I could go through specific line ups evolving from pre-season to this first game at Anfield.  Also, I could share how important the referee Anthony Taylor is to the outcome of the game, or discuss the betting odds and different machinations of possibilities as a distraction.

But I am not going to.   It is the first game of the season, and I am filled to the brim with possibilities for these lads.  Red lads. 

Instead, I am going back to read on RAWK and dream my little dream, thankful for my friends!!!  Get busy living Reds!  Get busy living!


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/awBy_K30Pe8&amp;list=RDawBy_K30Pe8&amp;t=6" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/awBy_K30Pe8&amp;list=RDawBy_K30Pe8&amp;t=6</a>



P.S.  But I will post the press conferences from both Klopp and Pelligrini once we get the thread running for the non-sentimental lads in the RAWKdom.

YNWA --- Let's put the hammers to the sword.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2018, 03:25:05 pm by jillc »
"He's trying to get right away from football. I believe he went to Everton"

Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2018, 12:33:34 pm »


"He's trying to get right away from football. I believe he went to Everton"

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2018, 12:55:27 pm »
Is that the strongest bench we've ever had?
I'm not vaccinated against covid and ... I don't wear masks.

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2018, 01:02:26 pm »
Commentary team today.

Archie 1-15
CT 16-30
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Archie 46-60
Jill 61-75
Jake 76-90

Colour: Rush82, Jillc, anyone else who drops in.
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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2018, 01:14:36 pm »
Is that the strongest bench we've ever had?

One of the strongest in recent memory.
I watched a YouTube video and decided that Paul Konchesky looked like a player.
A dead animal is a dead animal. And a piece of meat is a piece of meat.

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2018, 01:15:34 pm »
I warn you now. I'm on a US stream, and the advertising is horrendous. Combine that with the poor punditry and I assume terrible comms and unless we're 4-0 up by my shift there's gonna be some grumpy swearing ;D parental guidance is advised.
I'm not vaccinated against covid and ... I don't wear masks.

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2018, 01:27:21 pm »
Teams are out. 38 games from greatness. Here we go!

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2018, 01:27:55 pm »
Come on you Reds.  :scarf
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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2018, 01:31:40 pm »
1- Firmino puts in over his head into the box. Bit of panic. West Ham go forward but decent challenge and it's a goal kick.

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2018, 01:31:58 pm »
Both teams starting quickly. Been at both ends already

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2018, 01:32:30 pm »
2 - Salah looks to thread it through but Mane couldn't take it in his stride

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2018, 01:34:19 pm »
Naby with a sweet collect and pivot - pity the Hammers were awake and aware

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2018, 01:34:22 pm »
3 - Wijnaldum robbed in the middle and fk WH. Possession for us as WH sit off. Played forward but offside Mo.

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2018, 01:34:58 pm »
5 - TAA has the chance to cross it in but overhits it.

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2018, 01:36:13 pm »
West Ham forward tries to pressure Becker who collects the ball calmly with his feet and gets us moving forward again.

Liked the look of that

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2018, 01:36:20 pm »
6 - Moving it about nicely with Keita very involved. Cross punched away by Fabianski.

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2018, 01:36:49 pm »
I already love the way Keita's little quick passes keeps our moves going.
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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2018, 01:37:14 pm »
Holy balls Naby Keita is made out of silk.
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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2018, 01:37:21 pm »
Trent looking lively - belay that, everyone looks lively

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2018, 01:38:11 pm »
8 - Salah gets it on the edge of the box, pops it in to Firmino buts it justs runs away from him.

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2018, 01:39:19 pm »
9 - We break and Trent has it in space. Chooses to cross early and overhits it.

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2018, 01:39:40 pm »
Trents targeting reticule requires some calibration

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2018, 01:41:15 pm »
Tory c*nts WHU singing Sign on Sign on. Piece of shit club
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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2018, 01:41:52 pm »
10 minutes in and it's fair to say that while the Hammers aren't parking the bus, they're beginning to wonder how the fuck to get into the Liverpool half.

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2018, 01:42:40 pm »
11 - Gomez concedes a fk on halfway. WH play it back and look to release Ogbonna on the right. Dealt with by VVD. Bit of pressure from us down the right side. WH finding it hard to clear their lines. Salah dancing on the ball in the penalty area but he is offside.

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2018, 01:43:31 pm »
13 - Firmino turns brilliantly shoved off it but no foul. WH corner.

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #26 on: August 12, 2018, 01:44:07 pm »
How have we not scored. West Ham living dangerously. Noticeable how WH have about 3 men on Salah.
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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #27 on: August 12, 2018, 01:44:37 pm »
14 - Corner hit long and we look to break quickly again but Anderson just about gets back.

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #28 on: August 12, 2018, 01:45:41 pm »
15 - Milner dinks one in for Mane and Fabianski gets it. Dangerous. Over to CT for comms.

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #29 on: August 12, 2018, 01:45:44 pm »
Good break from the corner - early season rust prevents full pace

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2018, 01:46:56 pm »
Superb defending by the Reds after Hammers get a rare break - well done Gomez

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2018, 01:46:56 pm »
16 - WHU fans are being loud, as their keeper has to deal with Mane who nearly has the opening goal.
I watched a YouTube video and decided that Paul Konchesky looked like a player.
A dead animal is a dead animal. And a piece of meat is a piece of meat.

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2018, 01:48:59 pm »
YES

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2018, 01:49:01 pm »
17 - Anderson tries a break down our right side but it is cleared and we break down the left, keeping the tempo high. Mane's shot blocked. we keep the pressure up, with a miler cross and Bobby just misses heading it in to the net, goes wide...
I watched a YouTube video and decided that Paul Konchesky looked like a player.
A dead animal is a dead animal. And a piece of meat is a piece of meat.

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2018, 01:49:54 pm »
19 - Goal Salah. and what an opener!
I watched a YouTube video and decided that Paul Konchesky looked like a player.
A dead animal is a dead animal. And a piece of meat is a piece of meat.

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2018, 01:50:17 pm »
It’s that man again!
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline Rush 82

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2018, 01:50:22 pm »
Apologies to CT on stream

Offline Crimson_Tank

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2018, 01:50:23 pm »
Normal Service is resumed
I watched a YouTube video and decided that Paul Konchesky looked like a player.
A dead animal is a dead animal. And a piece of meat is a piece of meat.

Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2018, 01:51:00 pm »
What a pass from Keita.
"He's trying to get right away from football. I believe he went to Everton"

Offline Crimson_Tank

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Re: PL: Liverpool (0) v West Ham (0) 12.08.18 KO 13.30pm
« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2018, 01:51:01 pm »
Naby to Robertson, to Salah, that simple, that quick, that effective.
I watched a YouTube video and decided that Paul Konchesky looked like a player.
A dead animal is a dead animal. And a piece of meat is a piece of meat.