Author Topic: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1  (Read 11118 times)

Offline Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,382
  • Is it getting better?
Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« on: September 13, 2014, 10:59:13 pm »
Boys know what it's like, that kind of kick. The last moment when some bastard's foot makes contact full flush with your family jewels, and you rock back for a second with nothing more amiss than a sort of dull thud in your ears. Then the sick/pain radiating out from your battered bollocks to the entire lower body, the awful lifeless ache and the sure knowledge that this ache is for realsies and rubbing won't help. A kick square in the nuts, and on a day when some of our rivals dropped points.

I don't know, kids. We looked jittery at the start and conceded a really shitty, shitty goal, a piece of shit goal, a goal whose scorer should treat it like an ugly step child, a goal which prompted choruses of "they all count" all over the lands, with a little bit of vomit sifted in for good measure. Did I mention what a fucking crappy goal it was? Bobble head defending, a fortuitous bounce and a demented, gnarled poke from Agbonlahor.

From then on, it was a curious case of players behaving unlike themselves. Balotelli getting bullied by the Toblerone scoffer, Coutinho with a shit first touch, Cissokho looking nothing like the awkward and static presence he was for us. United reject Cleverley gave signs he might just challenge Jordan Henderson for a spot on Uncle Roy's midfield knee, and his fellow reject Richardson burning up Moreno while Lallana seemed to be channelling Lee Cattermole at times. Agbonlahor was a muscled bristling presence all game and Hutton was the player Spurs paid £9m for eight years ago, attacking and spiteful. Villa were very good, is what I'm getting at, and we weren't. I'm not complaining about Senderos' kick/trip on Mario because he got away with it so fair play. If you wouldn't mind Sakho doing it, shut up.

Upsides? Markovic looked good. Sterling made us more "vertical". We only let in one. What do you want from me?

Look, we gave a poxy early goal to a decent side in very good form and then they defended very well and we weren't good enough to knock them over. They deserved their three points and we deserved nothing. In terms of where we're going, all I'll say is to win the league, you can't have too many home losses, and there's one gone, and neither can you lose too many games overall, and we're on two in September. These portents do not auger well for us, Rawkites. The weather is still warm and we're already playing catch up.

Offline Hinesy

  • RAWK Editor. Giving it BAFTA’s. 57'sy. Caramel log dealer and comma chameleon. Tory Totty Tonguer
  • RAWK Staff.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 20,311
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2014, 05:29:25 pm »
The frustration for me is mainly down to the fact that we've played this match a few times now at Anfield. Teams are watching Villa and so forth and setting themselves up to play that way and BR needs to make that shift in tactics to break the tight defences down. We also need time for some players to gel, but also to learn to play without certain players. I'm sure a few players still look up and try to pass the ball to Luis, not sure what to do when they realise he's not there... Similarly the expectation of where Sturridge/Sterling might be and they're not, will affect our quick passing. More hours on the training field and more bedding in with different players and we'll reap the rewards.
Yep.

Offline The 5th Benitle

  • Mitch Fenner and Gerry Francis' biggest fan. Karaoke James - The Sausagefest Superhero. A soldier not a Capo di tutti capi. Clapham Stalker. RAWK X Factor Winner 2011. The poor man's Sarge!
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 45,307
  • Read, then post...
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2014, 06:06:08 pm »
I had the pleasure of watching this in Ruse with MichaelA, Mal, JerseyKopite, Zero Zero, Sprouts and Archie. A great evening only slightly marred by an insipid performance from the reds.


Is it just that Villa are a bogey team or is there more to it than that? Lambert certainly seems to enjoy playing us. We missed Sturridge of course, and have new players still bedding in.


We really missed Sturridge. We had a lot of players trying to create, and nobody on the end of what was created as Balotelli got little support and was heading wide in search of the ball. I actually thought it might have been a game for Lambert to start.


It's easy to just say we were poor but I think that's unfair on Villa, who came with a plan and stuck to it excellently, they were resolute and organised and difficult to break down.


An off day - we can afford one or two but need to get back on track against West Ham

Offline Azi

  • eckerslike
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,715
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2014, 09:35:51 pm »
Theirs that famous saying "you don't know what you've got till it's gone"  and last night's game was a perfect example, right from the off something looked off Balotelli was bullied and pushed about by Senderos and Villa hoping he would retaliate and do something stupid that would get  himself sent off he never did, but we missed that spark upfront.

My only criticism of Balotelli yesterday was that when he never had the ball he just stood still he never ran the wings like Sturridge does, instead he just wandered around the edge of the box Something which btw i don't think Sturridge ever gets enough credit for. His movement was really missed as it helps  drags defenders across the pitch but yesterday Senderos and Baker never really had to vacate the edge of the box which meant that space was never created for the others, Instead it just added to the crowded area on the edge of the box and allowing Villa to Keep their two banks of 5,Something I hoped Rodgers would have learned from after the Chelsea game last year but yesterday's game suggested otherwise.

But overall i think everything was wrong from the off, we played the wrong team and having lost two of our key players from last year for whatever reason i didn't think personally it was a good idea to rest Sterling and essentially play without three of our most dangerous players from last year, OK two were forced but i didn't think we needed to remove the third  and after 30 mins everyone could see what was going wrong but Rodgers kept the formation for me Balotelli was getting far too isolated we needed to bring on Sterling earlier.
As much as we say we have to be careful i would rather play him for 60 minutes and then take him off rather than bring him on and add extra pressure on his shoulders knowing we're counting on him, Similar to when he first broke through under Kenny's last season when we needed something he seemed to be who we would look to to get us out of the mess we were in.The other two subs we made didn't have any impact on the game as all it did was narrow the pitch for us.

Credit to Villa though they came with a plan and executed it brilliantly and if we're honest they probably should have left Anfield with more than a 1 goal victory, Hindsight is a great thing but if the rumors are true of Balotelli having a virus during the week I'd have thought we should have played it safe and only played one of Lallana or Markovic with Sterling playing up top and slowly phasing in Lallana who himself is coming back from a serious injury.

Finally Gerrard and Henderson in a midfield 2 for me doesn't work they both end up far too deep and end up leaving the huge gap between our attacking players and them, I'm not saying Drop Gerrard i'm just saying if we do play Gerrard we've got to play  3 in the middle because otherwise he just doesn't have the legs and other managers will twig that to stop Liverpool do what villa done yesterday and place a man on Gerrard it restricts his passing aswell as makes Henderson have that "i need to stay close enough to help Gerrard out" just in case

Offline Timbo's Goals

  • Petrified of THE BEAST
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,471
  • JFT96
    • Timbos Liverpool
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2014, 08:50:07 am »
Agree with Azi. The following are from what I commented in the post match thread. Sticks out a mile to me why our individual and collective performance levels were so sterile and insipid.


I think yesterday proved just how much the effectiveness [and ultimate success] of our game hinges upon having our front line attacking stars in place.

Last year we had the three outstanding stars plus Coutinho whenever he happened to be on his game. Deprived of one or more of these stars we tended to struggle since their replacements did not have that extra quality needed.

Yesterday we had none of the stars [until the 60th minute and it seems Raheem is no Davy Fairclough coming off the bench].

Their replacements - whilst potentially a huge improvement on their counterparts last season - are a fair way off being able to replicate the attacking thrust and impetus of the three stars of last season. Add into the mix a largely mis-firing display from little Coutinho and I have to say an impressively executed game plan from a Delph/Agbonlahoor inspired Villa and you have to conclude we could have played for the next 12 months without opening up their defence.

Of course such reliance for our game's success upon the top cutting edge attackers is scarcely a rocket-science reflection. It's the way the game has always been for any side with the highest aspirations. Deprived of that cutting edge it's odds on you'll struggle against any side with the determination and defensive quality Villa displayed. The comforting thing is that with Sturridge, Sterling to return and the other newcomers I'm sure capable of emulating their quality - and hopefully that will be sooner rather than later - there will not be many more depressing episodes to come like yesterday.



In the above post I mistakenly limited my own take to the missing attacking trio. I hadn't done my sums.

Macca off another forum posted the following which makes you wonder how the fuck we were ever going to resemble a team on the day.

We had 3 outfield players starting who were regulars plus Sakho.

Lovren & The Spaniards in defence with 2 home debutants in front in MF & Mario playing his 2nd game.

7 of our starting lineup had roughly 20 LFC games of all types between them

We haven't beaten Villa at home in 4 seasons now


Bit fuckin daft really to go into a premier league game against the sort of opposition Villa were always going to provide with so few experienced players. Clearly Rodgers didn't have that many options with injuries to Skrtel, Johnson, Flanagan, Allen, Sturridge and with Enrique not match fit, Lucas not favoured and Sterling in need of a rest thanks to that fuckin loon in charge of England but perhaps Lucas, Enrique and even a tired Sterling starting may have just provided some much needed cohesion and Anfield experience.

Clearly we're really unfortunate with the injury situation etc but still a bit of naievety gone on there methinks. A bit too much trust that it'd simply go right on the day when clearly the woeful lack of LFC experience and the stern Villa resistance was always going to be a bit too much for a side with so many untried and untested newbies.

Offline ShayGuevara

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,852
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2014, 10:30:37 am »
Need to improve set piece's (been saying this for 3 season's now at least)

New lad's needed time to gel, you could see there was no cohesion in our attack.

Brendan took a risk with team selection and it cost us, he'll realise that.

Not enough movement in behind from Balotelli, think he need's a quick strike partner like Sturridge or Sterling. Ditto Lambert.

Borini didn't take his chance, I'm sure he'll get more but he struggled to get involved. He'll realise that also.

Defence looked more solid (set pieces aside), will improve as the games go on.

Coutinho need's to stop shooting from distance/or improve his accuracy. He did look better vs Villa though in general.

Lallana looked like he's the most likely to settle quickest of our new signing's, no surprise as he's been playing a similar style at another PL club. He's ready to start week in, week out IMO.

Markovic and Balotelli are still adapting and will need time, both shouldn't start in the same attack this early in their careers with us IMO.

Delighted with our full back's, can see both doing very well for us. Relieved Johnson won't be starting regular. Same with Skrtel to be honest.

We haven't been as threatening with set pieces thus far, disappointing as we got a lot of goals from them last season. If you add that to the goals we'll lose from Suarez it could be 70-80 goal season.
"The socialism I believe in is everyone working for each other, everyone having a share of the rewards. It's the way I see football, the way I see life" Bill Shankly

Offline Lord Roger Hunt

  • Elevated to the RAWK Peerage. Furious Legend In His Own Lunchtime.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,161
  • Humans were harmed in the making of this picture
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2014, 10:54:59 am »
This might help discussion:

                                                                                  <a href="http://youtube.com/v/QXUseDHU_Kk" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://youtube.com/v/QXUseDHU_Kk</a>



We have all our players in the box whilst Villa only had half as many.  At the time of the strike the led to the goal, we had six players in the 6 yard box to Villa's two.

This seems to me to be a lack of understanding between the players e.g. 'who's going to accept responsibility?' and, as its in the 6 yard box, it would be reasonable to point the finger at our goalie - there's no surprise there and we know that Brendan is trying to do something about it.

The shock to me was how easily Lovren was out-manoeuvred/muscled by Senderous - for a minute, I thought I was looking at DAgger.   This was really disappointing, as I thought it was a flaw we'd ironed out with his arrival.

But, fundamentally, my belief (hope) is that this performance can be put down to players not knowing each other that well, which can be eradicated with more time on the training field.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2014, 12:52:28 pm by Lord Roger Hunt »
From the Country of Liverpool

Offline Hank Scorpio

  • is really a Virgo, three pinter. Royhendo's stalker.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,939
  • POOLCHECK HOMIE
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2014, 11:02:05 am »
Firstly, I thought Villa played very well.  They had a game plan, good shape and a young vibrant midfield that ran all day and worked in coordination, even when they changed formation.  I thought they deserved the win.

For us, I think it is a reminder that there is work to do this season.  Work which needs to be done so we can integrate a number of players and be in better shape for next season.  It won't happen over the course of a few games but we should see some progress during the season.  We are building another side post-Suarez. 

We just did not get going in this match.  The number of new players is definitely a valid reason.  But given that both Sturridge & Allen were out I don't think resting Sterling was a good idea.  That just compounded the issue. 

Oh well, it was all very disappointing.  But what Rodgers has shown is he is able to learn from mistakes.  I'd expect a similar response now.

PS

Not that it means much but this reminded me of the early season home defeat to Southampton last year.

Offline Johnnyboy1973

  • ★★★ Never, ever, bloody anything ever! ★★★
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,649
  • Up the piss boiling, asthmatic Reds!!!
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2014, 11:08:30 am »
Brendan over thinking things again with the midfield. I haven't studied heat maps but it didn't resemble our normal 1 - 2 midfield. Gerrard was anonymous and didn't even try his roy of the rovers stuff with ten to go. Henderson appeared restricted and so we had no midfield runner hitting the box.

After the tactics come the players. The front three wilted. Balotteli didn't lead the line and neither "wide" man beat their man. Yes, there was little space but if you as a player are not prepared to take on Alan Hutton and Aly Cissokho in a one v one situation then you've bottled it.

The other worry is yet again, defensivelly. With another new centre half and a combined 35m on display in that postion we are, like last season, shit under the high ball. Anytime a cross came in we were utterly clueless. The fact it continues for so long l question whether we even address it in training. Rodgers bristly comments about our defending would suggest we do, which is then even more worrying. This isn't a short term thing, we are shit defensively and it doesnt appear to matter who the centre halves are, we ship goals regularly. One clean sheet in four which included two home games against Southampton and Villa? Worrying.

I like our full backs though and have no idea why we didn't dovetail Markovic with Moreno after their brief outing at City.

What yesterday showed is, no, not that we miss Suarez before you all say it. It shows we cant be without Sterling and Sturridge. Not at this stage, whilst others are finding their feet. I really dont think we should be restricting Henderson either especially as it didn't work in that we didn't control the midfield.

Finally, Coutinho. From a dazzling pre season where Brendan was talking about him as the brains of the team now Luis has gone to, outside of twenty minutes after Sterling came on, ineffective.

It's not all doom and gloom, but for me, Brendan just thinks too much at times. Outside of the Spurs game, we've looked average. So I would have thought you would try and stick as close to that formula. Beyond that, we're so reliant on Sturridge he shouldn't be released for another England game all season. In his absence Mario has to accept responsibility but to be honest he looked like a boy out there. Again though I think he would benefit from someone beside him. Yes, two up top all the time is a bit archaic, but it appears to suit our players best.

Where's this Yakimoto fella?

Offline Banquo's Ghost

  • Macbeth's on repeat. To boldly split infinitives that lesser men would dare. To.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,480
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2014, 11:19:56 am »
There are two images that sum up my own frustrations from the game: firstly, watching our players running into each other in attack - often occupying the same space, or passing into a space where no-one existed. Secondly, passing the ball sideways in our own half with what felt like a listless lack of urgency or idea.

If I reflect on the game a little more now the emotion has subsided, I think that the latter issue got worse as the former became more apparent. Therefore both can be resolved, as I am of the firm conviction that the players in our attack simply hadn't had enough time together to make the 'poetry in motion' sparkle. Instead of late period Byronic, we were more Monday morning McGonagall with a severe hangover.

The sideways passing comes from that lack of confidence and the refuge of 'possession'. In attack, we gave the ball up too easily because the players weren't sure who would be where or when. On song, we take risks, many of which come off. Tentative, we develop too slowly, yet still give up the ball and have to recover for the inevitable counter. Repetition of this stokes fear, and this is the Chimp that Dr Peters strives to remove from players' minds. I think we ought to try and be more swashbuckling rather than less, more positive and confident, when faced with an obdurate team - but that has its down falls too, as we saw against Chelsea last year.

I actually thought we played pretty well defensively. The corners were a problem, of course - Senderos particularly was left unmarked many a time, and it was baffling that no-one on the pitch seemed to take charge of that till the second half. But in open play, we were strong, capable and good at intercepting just as at Spurs. This unit too, is new and will take time to settle into its strengths.

The game reminded me of nothing so much as the opening few games of last season. Still learning, still trying to gel, still trying to understand a system and where one's colleagues would turn up and what they would try. Villa played to their game plan and did so very well. However, we were inches away from scoring a couple of times in the first half and mere millimetres from Phillipe's effort in the second half.

The truth is, everyone learns far more from failure than they do from success. We are a learning organisation, with a lot of new players - too many, in that game, for us to be able to recover from a stupid first goal. It happens. We were very good against Spurs, and pretty much everyone, including the boss, had a bit of an off-game on Saturday. There is however, lots and lots to learn from and Ludogorets to play shortly after.

Brendan is a young manager faced with impossible expectations, and he will always be the kind of manager that will try things. Keeping Sterling on the bench was probably the right decision (we really don't want to break him as well) and we have something of an injury crisis for the most experienced of our team, which meant the newbie quotient was too high. I'm not sure what else Brendan could have done in the circumstances. Lambert did him once again, and he will have to work out a way to stop that - but had our first choice team been available, or had this game come in the second half of the season when our squad is fully integrated to the system, I think Villa would have left badly crushed.

I saw lots of good signs in the game as well - Markovic had some good ideas, but you could see he was trying to think what he should be doing rather than knowing instinctively where his team-mates would be and thinking what he could be doing. Phillipe seems to be forcing things rather than letting the game flow, again because he had a brick wall in front and no-one dragging it around and out of position. Lallana was doing well but would have done better, I think, in the middle. As noted earlier, I think the defence did well overall, but the full backs both started getting into the frustrated crossing mentality (perhaps more used in their previously clubs?) and the centre backs into keep-ball.

I'll be fascinated to see how we learn from this and step on again.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2014, 11:24:54 am by The Repeated Meme »
Be humble, for you are made of earth. Be noble, for you are made of stars.

Offline itsgunnabebarnes!

  • Neghead. hard and gagging. Will never be Barnes
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,684
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2014, 11:27:29 am »
I slate continuo as I really don't see him as a dictator of play as he's too inconsistent but he really was the only one trying to make something happen

Henderson was wasted holding hands with Gerrard do the passing a decent centre back should. The attacking three just didn't gel and we had no way of getting behind Villa.

I can't speak for this German lad as I've not seen him play much, but why we did not get a top midfielder in this summer is beyond me.

I think people forget the games and large portions of second half's last season where we never had a kick and got completely dominated. That was hidden by our attacking brilliance.

Our midfield us our weak point, we're to easy to dominate.
'Tramps like us, baby we were born to run!'

Offline Halcyon Lissome

  • Scallion Homeys, Miscellany Shoo or Nicholas Mosely?
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,210
  • “We murdered them 0-0.”
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2014, 11:37:24 am »
We're certainly culpable for not playing better but I think you also have to appreciate just how negative Villa are playing these days. They're averaging 37% possession and 1.5 shots on target per game. They've scored 4 goals from 6 shots on target in total and have only had more than 1 shot on target in 1 game (vs Hull). They're knicking a goal and shutting up shop completely.

You wonder what happened to Lambert along the way: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/aston-villa/9483913/Aston-Villas-new-manager-Paul-Lambert-vows-to-throw-out-the-negative-tactics-used-by-Alex-McLeish.html
★              ★              ★              ★              ★
The best there is, the best there was, the best there ever will be.

Offline Robinred

  • Wanted for burglary.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,734
  • Red since '64
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2014, 11:42:55 am »
I love Brendan's boldness. You could never call him a conservative coach.

On Saturday his team selection was compromised by injuries. Even so, it was bold to start with so few regulars from last season. His team selection also, however, bore a hint of caution, no doubt based on last season's encounters, when Gerrard's perceived vulnerability to the aggressive press caused him and us problems. The result was that Henderson was redeployed into a position which nullified lots of his value to us.

It's tempting to use the result to castigate the manager for using a system, and a line-up, that failed. But when so many individuals had off-days, that would be unfair. Villa had key personnel missing too. Their game plan was straightforward, and utilised their strengths - lots of athleticism combined with physicality and not a little cynicism. They have unquestionably become our bogey team.

August and September habitually throw up strange results and topsy-turvy league tables. New players, coaches and systems all bedding in. Add the International merry-go-round into the equation and you have the potential for what happened on Saturday. We will get better; my hope and belief is we will get a lot better. The Spurs performance and Saturday's were chalk and cheese; but chalk and cheese is what you get in September when Internationals fuck up continuity.

"The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology...as long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth." Mikhail Bakunin

Offline Mingle

  • No new LFC topics
  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 937
  • I believe...
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2014, 11:47:10 am »
Im normally a reader of this thread becuase Im nowhere near good enough to go as in depth as some of you guys in dissecting a match, however this was my post in the pre match thread:
 
"Liverpool FC Forum / Re: Liverpool vs Aston Villa (Pre Match Thread),Anfield - Saturday 13/09/2014 5.30pm
« on: September 12, 2014, 09:09:59 AM »
2 up front
2 up front
2 up front
2 up front

 
this is all I want!!!"

could it of been just the fact we had 1 up top? we have struggled on every occasion this season with just 1! even against City we only looked more like it in front of goal when Lambert came on!
 
 
At the end of a storm, Theres a golden sky...Believe in Brendan

Offline slaphead

  • Nothing up top.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,165
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2014, 11:51:32 am »
I'm not having this Sterling missing as an excuse.
For me Rodgers was right in not starting Sterling. Its very easy to look back in hindsight
Anyway, bloody annoying the amount of games where the opposition get 1 chance and score
Credit to Villa, they played well, I always thought that with young team they have, if they survived them relegation battles they could grow into a very good side
Countinho looked to me like the only one having a real go as in shooting when he had the chance and was unlucky to see one coming off the post
Balotelli got some rough treatment from Senderos, ridiculous how that wasn't clamped down on
Positively he didn't react, negatively he didn't really perform either
Hopefully we can get a bit of good form going now and start racking up a few goals

Online the 92A

  • Alberto Incontidor. Peneus. Phantom Thread Locker. Mr Bus. But there'll be another one along soon enough. Almost as bad as Jim...
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,029
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2014, 11:57:48 am »
Villa played their plan well. Everyone knew what to do and carried out their tasks with relish. With Gerrard and Henderson playing alongside each other we look weak in the midfield, Gerrard seams to benefit fro being slightly further back where he has more time to read the game to spot the space, Villa compounded this by pressurising him. Equally without Henderson buzzing a bit more forward we look light in the middle of the park and that doesn't help get the best out of Coutinhio who can look overwhelmed. Stilll we should have enough skill to overcome this but Villa also provided a threat at set pieces and corners. Migonlet has strengths but commanding his box at set pieces is not one of them and for me it always feels like that puts added pressure on the defence and transmits nervousness.


But you can't ignore that we had a number of new players out there and Rodgers was trying to remedy the damage that hodgson had inflicted on us, also if reports are to believed Ballotelli was playing recovering from a mild virus. Ultimately it was a very frustrating game to watch and will give the coaching staff food for thought but I wouldn't get to carried away with any doom and gloom, we'll play a lot better this season and will have people talking football's never about one game.
Still Dreaming of a Harry Quinn

Offline kevlumley

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,145
  • Forza Liverpool
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2014, 12:22:51 pm »
I think with the players we have and the extra squad, we will hopefully benefit from making mistakes early on. I always felt Brendan would be challenged this year in his purchases, trying to deepen the squad, how we will try to get those players into an 11, with a few interchangeable players and how he could keep the whole squad happy with the games we have yet to play. It is a challenge.

Some good points on here about breaking through two banks of 5 and i liked the one about starting Sterling rather than bringing him on as a sub. My guess is BR didn't want to play him unless he had to, possibly due to post Internationals.

Offline JackWard33

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,969
  • President of the Harry Wilson fanclub
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2014, 12:27:34 pm »
The disappointments of this game are a) Villa really aren't very good b) they came with exactly the same plan as last year and it worked again and b) we struggled again against a deep lying / shelling defence

I'm not having blaming our defence for the loss and I'm saddened Rodgers has gone that route
Yes the defending on the corner was horrendous but shit happens
We have 90 minutes to score against a really mediocre Villa defence and we barely created a significant chance

Game state has a lot to do with football and once they'd got their early goal they could shut up shop and maybe hit us on a counter
None of that mitigates the fact that we created so little. To do well in this league you need to create big chances against shit teams when they sit deep and try and shut up shop

Our decision making needs to be WAY better in the final third and we need to be prepared to continually recycle and keep moving and passing until a genuine opening gets created instead or the brain dead shooting from outside the area through a phalanx of players takes over
The worst thing about this performance is that we lost out heads again when behind and we didn't get immediate reward
As with Chelsea at the end of last season it's the one situation where we don't look like the finished article and we look like a young team learning it's trade

Bad day at the office - luckily we get to put it right in 30 hours or so....

Offline Mutton Geoff

  • 'The Invigilator'
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,663
  • Life is a journey, not a destination.
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2014, 12:34:29 pm »
I think in hindsight he should have started Sterling but i can understand why he didn't, he had to blood these players one day, maybe it was too many but in the end they will gain from this game by just playing together even in defeat, so long term it may have been the right decision  but short term with the wrong outcome.

As for the goal we need Mignolet to command his area and come off his line to deal with crosses etc, right now he seems hesitant to do this.
A world were Liars and Hypocrites are accepted and rewarded and honest people are derided!
Who voted in this lying corrupt bastard anyway

Online stockdam

  • The sheer loftus-cheek of the man.....
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,524
  • Walk on through the wind, Walk on through the rain
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2014, 12:37:03 pm »
It's early in the season and hopefully things will improve. Villa got an early goal and then were very well organised. They put pressure on the person with the ball and we seemed to run out of ideas.

The most worrying thing is that we only had ONE shot on target at home. We'll face tougher opposition and we will struggle if we cannot create more.

We were poor and were far too easily nullified. Big improvements needed otherwise this will be a dissapointing season.
#JFT97

Offline has gone odd

  • a tru-ro...I mean....red!
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,424
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2014, 12:38:21 pm »
it was a weird one wasn't it?

from the offset we looked snail pace, villa were not exactly in breath taking form on the pitch either. They parked and we drew blanks. I sat through the entire match and didn't even jitter in anticipation or excitement, not even once.

im seriously hoping this was just a bad day at the office and not the sign of things to come. being back to our inconsistent best is not what id have thought after the summer but there you are. 2 defeats in 4 is not a great or indeed the most dire start.

something doesn't seem right with us at the moment, aside from new players. its our pace, its well behind what Id have expected. only at spurs have we looked anywhere near decent, the rest of our performances this year have been bloody awful imho.

- all in my opinion of course -

Offline ArchieC

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,697
  • Once a Red Always a Red WE BLEED RED!!
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2014, 12:40:55 pm »
To be honest the defending for the goal was largely pathetic.  Once you concede against Villa first then its very very hard because they will defend the whole game very tight.  I wouldn't blame Rodgers tactically or anything the players just didn't seem ready for the set pieces or nobody knew who they were marking, cannot concede goals like that at this level for a top team.  In saying this though our defence were all new boys apart from Sakho but still a very very young defence.  Lovrens  leadership will show more in time but he is still young and he's taking a lot of responsibility in that defence.  I know this team will get better but alot of fans will always abuse and be negative when we lose it's the nature of this football club we're expected to be up top but we have to be realistic as well, every team loses games look at Stoke at City recently, it happens. 
We all bleed RED!!

Offline BigAl24

  • Would rather take one from the whole team than from just one billy goat.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,403
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2014, 12:42:48 pm »
It's a shame, as this is a game you feel we really should be winning. From Villa's point of view, credit where credit is due, and the game went exactly how they would have planned it.

The game itself felt like an end of season match with nothing riding on it, that's how pedestrian we seemed on Saturday. Balotelli I don't think was that bad, but yes could have got involved a bit more. That said, had Markovic left that header for him after a few minutes then we'd be 1-0 and could have potentially picked Villa apart at will. Moreno's cross at the end of the first half, if there had been a bit more on it then Markovic would have had a tap in and we'd have gone in at half time 1-1 with our tails up. It's a game of small margins and that proved to be the case.

Really not sure why we changed the midfield shape again though, if we are playing 4-2-3-1, then I'm sorry but Gerrard can't be there. It limits Henderson massively as well.

Ah well, onwards and upwards eh.
"We change from doubters to believers. Now"

Offline nico 8

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,610
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2014, 12:56:36 pm »
We started off too slowly and gave the initiative to Villa from the first whistle. They moved the ball around a lot better in the period leading up to the goal. Once they scored, they merely shut shop. Our passing was too pedestrian and we failed to shift the defence quickly enough so as to tire them  when passing sideways. Too may sideways passes and really relying on Coutinho to show forward penetration through a dribble or forward pass. Needed crisp forward passing and off the ball movement-both was lacking. Needed our wide men to get around and behind the defence.
Henderson playing alongside Gerrard was wasted. He almost performed a Lucas role/function. He was needed further up where his engine to find spaces will have dragged defenders out of position and given options to our ball carrier.
For all Mignolet's tremendous shot stopping(an area he really excels in), I am beginning to question whether his allround ability/play is increasingly standing out as a weakness in the team.

Offline The Playmaker

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,149
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2014, 12:58:07 pm »
I think you have to accept that some teams will come to Anfield and play that way. A few teams will come to Anifeld this season and look to match us and cause us problems. That could see us competing in an open game. I didn't see a brilliant performance from Aston Villa. What I saw was a team looking to sit deep, stay compact and look to break on the counter-attack.

The one thing they had was a lot of energy in midfield to put pressure on the ball when they want to. They also looked quite dangerous on set pieces - but part of that could have been our nervous defending at them. But from what I've seen of Aston Villa, they tend to play this way quite a lot. They are often happy to concede possession and in football some teams can be very good without the ball.

The problem for them might be when they face teams that they are actually expected to beat. In certain games they will be expected to take the initiative and that is where they might come unstuck again. Last season, they won ten games and drew eight. They lost twenty games and scored 39 goals in 38 games. In the end, they caused a few upsets (beating Arsenal away from home, Manchester City and Chelsea at home) but they did look to be in danger for quite a long time.

We can't complain though about the opposition and the way they play. We didn't do enough. We could have salvaged a draw but in the end it was a flat performance with very little chances being created by ourselves. I thought out passing up until the final third was very safe and controlled but there was very little space to exploit at times. We couldn't unlock them and we didn't take enough risks either. At times, I just wanted us to move the ball a bit quicker to try and draw Villa out of their shape.

The result is obviously disappointing but I'm more disappointed by the lethargic performance. It was our first game back after the international break and there is no doubt that we missed Daniel Sturridge and two upfront. If rumours of Balotelli being unwell throughout the week are true then that obviously didn't help either. But we can't make excuses, you have to work with what you've got on the day. Villa had some injury problems too.

People will of course look at Raheem Sterling and feel that he should have been starting but you've got to acknowledge that Raheem is still very young. He has emerged as an important player not only for ourselves in recent times, but for England too. There is a lot of expectation and I think Brendan wants to protect him. We have made several signings in the summer and you are looking at others to step up. It isn't easy by any means to get your new look forward line clicking straight away - and I think that was what we saw that.

Thankfully, we have 34 league games to put things right. You will get good and bad days throughout any given season. The main thing is that we don't see this sort of performance on a regular basis throughout the season because that would be worrying. I'm sure we won't of course but this fixture did remind me of the game at home against Southampton last season where we lost. It did also remind me of the first half display against Aston Villa last season - where we looked awful. On that day, we managed to get a 2-2 draw and the team showed great spirit to get themselves back into the game. So, hopefully we will see a good response in the UEFA Champions League.

Offline CHOPPER

  • Bad Tranny with a Chopper. Hello John gotta new Mitre? I'm Jim Davidson in disguise. Undercover Cop (Grammar Division). Does Louis Spence. Well. A giga-c*nt worth of nothing in particular. Hodgson apologist. Astronomical cock. Hug Jacket Distributor
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 52,563
  • Super Title: Not Arsed
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2014, 01:09:55 pm »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/nHuko5BCFzA" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/nHuko5BCFzA</a>
@ Veinticinco de Mayo The way you talk to other users on this forum is something you should be ashamed of as someone who is suppose to be representing the site.
Martin Kenneth Wild - Part of a family

Offline Shaved Crossbar

  • shits from the hip
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,108
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2014, 01:12:09 pm »
August to December 2013: Mostly play a 4-2-3-1. Mediocre performances, decent points tally
December to March 2013: Forced switch to 4-3-3, immediate thrashings of our rivals, defeats to teams bigger than us, failure to break down Villa and WBA
March 2013 onwards: switch to diamond, bulk of the 11 straight wins we had. Halted when we lose to Chelsea (playing a 4-3-3)

At home to Soton, play awful and labour against a team we're much better than, at home playing a 4-3-3. Switch to a diamond, score the winner.
Away to City, play reasonably but get beaten comprehensively, switch to the diamond and get a consolation and look threatening.
Away to Spurs, a team flying and in form, play the diamond and play them off the park.
Home to Villa, play a 4-3-3, and offer no penetration, and no shots on target in 86 minutes after they scored.

When will Brendan learn?

There is more to the defeat and our lack of penetration than just the formation, and maybe Brendan's hands were tied by injuries in this case, but there is a clear trend here.

Offline redk84

  • (and nothing else!)
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,128
  • why must we always do things the hard way?
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2014, 01:20:00 pm »
Was at the game....and really terrified everytime there was a set piece against us from the start.
You could feel the tension in the air because the Liverpool we were loving last year was just not there.

Coutinho could have been an integral part of our gameplan but he just couldn't seem to get it together (especially in the first half)....was better in the 2nd but alas it came to nothing. Loved his in n out run and shot against the post though, was so unlucky.

The movement upfront was almost non existant....the shift from our defence to attack was questionable, there were many times we were forced into rushing a ball up top simply because there was no other options! There's only so many times you can pass the ball sideways and triangles in your own half before the crowd start groaning...

Villa did their bit well.....they got an ugly goal, could have had another actually but then settled for defending their lead and we just couldn't do anything about it. (We're gonna win the league shout made me laugh)

I love our squad depth.....but our new players need time. That match was as much evidence as you need of that.

I was hoping Coutinho/Sterling would be on the pitch together from the start as there seemed to be an identity crisis in our attack....and they have a good understanding between them.

It was a bad day....but we will have more of those. Lets just hope its not too much of a regular occurence while our squad can settle and we are still within reach of the top....

Really missed Sturridge.
All Those Who Have A Red Heart Can Rejoice.
For They Have Seen GOD.

Offline jacdaniel

  • "I don't care if people think I am a bed wetter".
  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 87
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2014, 01:52:09 pm »
It was a poor team selection and Rodgers unfortunately got it all wrong.  Since its my first ever post, I will point out that i love the man and am delighted with the job he is doing.
But you don't start 7 new players if it can be avoided.
You don't rest Sterling when Sturridge is injured and nobody else has stepped up just yet. 

Poor defending again has cost us a goal and allowed Villa to park a bus and use every negative tactic in the game. 
I've seen a lot written on this forum about our defensive personnel but for me its more to do with the system. 
They can't all be bad players.  Some of the personnel had excellent defensive records under Rafa and Kenny / Clarke.

The biggest concern was our failure to create anything in the game after the goal. 
We didn't look like doing anything until Sterling came on. 
And then we took off Balotelli for Lambert and Borini....

My one hope for this season is that we prioritize the league over Champions league and cups. 
Staying in the top 4 is vital and we can't afford to be resting key players in league matches.  At least not until the new players have settled a bit more.

Offline redan

  • yellowan pinkan green. purplean orangean blue.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,369
  • I'd prefer a beer!!
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2014, 02:01:57 pm »
By the time the final whistle went, I got the feeling if we'd have been given another 90mins it would still have been as drab and uninspiring and it's been a long time since I've felt that.

Even back under Kenny when we lost the occasional match 1-0, when tended to hit the woodwork umpteen times, I left the match thinking 'if we'd have had 5 mins more we'd have won that 2-1 such was our dominance. I didn't get that at all during that game.

I'm ashamed to say I text my best mate who's a Villa Fan after 60mins saying I'd take a draw! I have never done that at Anfield let alone against the mighty Villa. Not because they were great but because I could not see us doing anything and could not see where a goal was coming from, it was desperate stuff,

Sakho still looks shakier than a shitting dog on a tightrope. We didn't defend the corner well but it should never have been a corner in the first place, Sakho was well in control of that situation,

Balotelli would have gotten better service in tunnel 60ft underground than he got on Saturday. He didn't cover himself in glory and made Senderos look like Jaap Stam but the players supposedly 'supplying' him were even worse.

Lallana's all action style got diluted as soon as he went in 5 minutes too late on Cleverley. Markovic looked nervous, afraid to take a man on and showed none of the bravado he's talked about. Early days but not a great home debut.

But the biggest mystery is Coutinho. On his day one of the best 'number 10's' in the PL if not Europe but worryingly 'his days' are becoming fewer and further between, he seems to be playing within himself. When the pressures off he can glide around the pitch, turning players and making touches which would make Kaka 2005-2007 proud but more and more he drifts through games anonymously and on the occasions he does get the ball he almost appearing to try too hard which for a player who makes things look effortlessly is worrying. His first 6 months (and the City home game) aside.

The Gerrard/Henderson axis was bizarre. Why change what has served us so well for 18 months? It was as if Brendan saw how badly used Henderson was by England and decided to adopt it himself! Allen I can completely see next to Stevie but not Hendo,

It's 1 game out of 38 and every team has an off day (see City at home to Stoke) and Villa always seem to love Anfield. Great thing is in 24 hours we move onwards and upwards onto CL football back at Anfield for the first time in 5 years. If that won't get Saturday out of our system nothing will   

 

Offline Cork Red

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 746
  • Justice for the 96
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2014, 03:12:21 pm »

I'm not having blaming our defence for the loss and I'm saddened Rodgers has gone that route
Yes the defending on the corner was horrendous but shit happens
We have 90 minutes to score against a really mediocre Villa defence and we barely created a significant chance


I have to disagree with you there.

We're not going to blow away every team at home and we need to make sure that we're at least picking up a point in games where the attack doesn't click.

What annoyed me about our first half display is that we kept giving away soft corners and soft free kicks around the box.  I think Villa had something like 6 corners in the first half?  Dangerous behaviour when your main weakness is defending set plays.

Offline L666KOP

  • Wants everyone to fuck off. Especially you. Yes YOU! Too Tender for Tinder. Would swallow his knob on a genuine fuck up.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 21,116
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2014, 03:13:33 pm »
First off, I really don't get the 'Villa were shit'.

I thought they were excellent, their back four never looked in any trouble, Delph was the player that was heralded as a future England captain, and Cleverly looked like the player Utd really need.

They pressed intelligently, and were not afraid to double up when needed.

I said it in the PM, but if we do exactly what the did, when we play the Bernabeu later this year it will be hailed as a heroic tactical masterclass.

As industrial as Gabby is, he's effective. And the midfield played with intelligence when backing him up.

It was also a bit galling that Cissoko played his best ever game at Anfield.

That Villa performance, with our front four is what Brendan is aiming for, I'm convinced he is.

And after watching them completely nullify Jordan and Stevie with the players they have it's maybe time to look at dispensing with the 'shoe in' that is Gerrard. I know injuries played a part in team selection, but I wonder how much of Brendans decision to omit Raheem was down to stubbornness.

That team selection was more about stopping Villas game than impressing our own. And as a result it left Coutinho doing more than his fair share of Donkey work, he should under no circumstances be having to drop into our half to get the ball.

We saw yesterday, the way to get at teams that are content to sit deep is to run at them with the ball, or increase passing tempo, yet we did neither, our interplay was ponderous at times, and not one of our players looked capable of beating his man.

Yet again we were completely undone by the low block, executed almost to perfection by a team with 2 mobile midfielders, and a willing lump up front.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2014, 03:16:59 pm by L666KOP »
13mins - Bournemouth have gone home. Utd kicked off anyway. Still 0-0 as Smalling passes it back to De Gea.

Offline wemmick

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,908
  • "Do it half-assed. That's the American Way!"
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2014, 03:19:21 pm »
From our best performance so far this season to our worst performance. I reckon we will see this kind of inconsistency for the first half of the season. We only had cohesion in moments against Villa. Much as I dislike the 4-2-3-1, similar to all the posters above, I'm not sure it was the underlying problem. We didn't score with it in the first half or the 4-3-3 in the second half, but had a few good and bad moments with both.

I would have liked to see the diamond as our primary system, but I'm not certain we could have played in that system any better with the personnel available. I said in the post match thread, and I still think so after some thought, that the underlying problem was a lack of game-time together. The whole match was played in a slow chaotic tempo.

I could not see any instinctual understanding of each other's game and movement from Lallana, Coutinho, Markovic, and Balotelli. Even the introduction of Sterling didn't make much difference; in part, I think, because the introduction of Lambert and Borini brought in just as much mis-understanding as the players they replaced (Balotelli and Markovic). As I recall the lads created pretty much zero threat from the right in the second half. To me that is the only difference between the Spurs and Villa match. The new lads slotted in perfectly against Spurs, but didn't seem to know each other's game well enough to execute a particular role against Villa.

Perhaps Brendan put too much faith in the squad too early, and maybe over-thought his system selection from blind faith, but I'd rather see this happen early in the season, when they have lots of matches to play and time to integrate. It's a problem with having such a young squad however talented. They need time to learn and integrate, and Brendan needs time to mold them. I think sometimes we underestimate how hard it is to cultivate a young side into a title threat.

As long as we're in with a shout of the top 4 come January, I'll be satisfied with our early inconsistency. Villa was a good measure of how far the new lads have to go to play like our small squad did last season.     
« Last Edit: September 15, 2014, 04:28:42 pm by wemmick »

Online wah00ey

  • Gappy Gumbo, especially at the back.....
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,181
  • Stay away from Twitter, it's no good for anyone.
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2014, 04:53:19 pm »
Too many changes to the starting line up for me - and I know some of these were forced.  Sterling should have started (unless he was not 100%) and I'd have gone with Lambert up front with Balotelli to give their defence something else to think about..  It always felt like we were trying to integrate too many new faces on Saturday with Lallana and Markovic not quite knowing the setup - bloody International breaks and fcuking Hodgson.

Whatever happened to us piling on the pressure in the first 20 minutes, the "Tsunami" of football we were playing last season?  We need to rediscover that somehow and some of the newer players need to get that into their mindset.  Villa played well and it looked like we were surprised as to quite how well.  Rodgers admitted the home defeat to Villa last season was down to him.  I think this one definitely is too.

Bah.
Look up "Odious" in the dictionary and Martin Samuel is the given definition.  Call me Klopphooey please.

Offline BassTunedToRed

  • This X-Axis goes up to 11.
  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 940
    • Bass Tuned To Red
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2014, 05:04:56 pm »
We're certainly culpable for not playing better but I think you also have to appreciate just how negative Villa are playing these days. They're averaging 37% possession and 1.5 shots on target per game. They've scored 4 goals from 6 shots on target in total and have only had more than 1 shot on target in 1 game (vs Hull). They're knicking a goal and shutting up shop completely.

You wonder what happened to Lambert along the way: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/aston-villa/9483913/Aston-Villas-new-manager-Paul-Lambert-vows-to-throw-out-the-negative-tactics-used-by-Alex-McLeish.html

Yeah their stats are nuts this season. They top of the Premier League for both shots on target conversion rate and save percentage. Long term it's not sustainable, but sadly it was on Saturday. One shot on target for them = goal. One shot on target for us = nowhere near enough.

Offline TSC

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,464
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2014, 05:15:28 pm »
First off, I really don't get the 'Villa were shit'.

I thought they were excellent, their back four never looked in any trouble, Delph was the player that was heralded as a future England captain, and Cleverly looked like the player Utd really need.

They pressed intelligently, and were not afraid to double up when needed.

I said it in the PM, but if we do exactly what the did, when we play the Bernabeu later this year it will be hailed as a heroic tactical masterclass.




While they weren't exactly 'shit' I'd also argue they were nowhere near excellent either.  The galling thing for me was that they didn't need to be, such was our inability to build up any sort of momentum or anything approaching consistency in attacks.  In fact I thought they were much better if not last season then certainly the season before at Anfield.  Or maybe it was just that we where even worse then? 

It's all a bit moot anyway.  Ultimately it's now the 3rd (or is it 4th?) season in a row where they've started aggressively and pressed from the off.  And yet again we'd no answer.  Difference this time was that they seemed to decide to sit back after half hour and most of the 2nd half.  Maybe we forced them back to an extent?  Particularly when Sterling came on.  Either way to me Villa were comfortable not because it was some defensive masterclass from them, but more so because we were poor from goalkeeper to forward and everywhere in between.

Offline BrandoLFC

  • Should probably bugger off to Tetiaroa like his namesake did with no access to a telly or the Internet.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,206
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2014, 05:56:12 pm »
I'm not going to say that Villa were bad or undeserving as the scoreboard is the ultimate arbitrator in that.  With that said I would say LFC lost the game more than Aston Villa won it.  If you were to put up the game stats without knowing the score and ask a person to guess who won the game I would hazard 9 people out of 10 would say LFC.  I don't recall a single chance created from open play by Aston Villa nor does the stats show one other than the free header Senderos had from a free kick which in my mind was the only real defensive issue.  Every team gives up goals from scrambles in the boxes, it's just random chance as the initial header hit a player and if it bounces any where else it's a clearance and no issue.  That's luck, it's happened before and it will happen again so dwelling on it will get no where other than expecting Lovren to win those headers more times than not which he does.

For our attacking play, I think it's going to be expected in the early season with a bunch of new players that performances are going to be uneven and I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't the last time we're wondering how we can look so inept in front of goal before it all starts clicking again.  I think all we can hope is that in the coming years we don't have to make such wholesale changes to the squad and continually have to go through this process of everybody figuring out where they should be and what they are supposed to do.  Lallana, Markovic and Balotelli's positioning was all over the place and quite a bit of the time it was like they were almost standing on top of each other making it a lot easier for Aston Villa to stay compact.

The bottom line to me though is one team came to play and win, one team came to see if they could at least get a point and got some luck and that happens.  More often than that, even if you want to call AVFC a bogey team, we're going to win these games if not all of them.

Lastly, the only question in my mind is when teams sit make and make us break them down would it not be best to sit Gerrard for a more mobile midfielder?  AVFC were man marking Gerrard all over the pitch which meant Coutinho and Henderson were having to come deep to get the ball, I can only recall one time where Henderson made one of his trademark runs into the box and I don't think Coutinho ever made one.  We were then always short one player getting into the box and everything was always in front of AVFC's back line making it a lot easier to defend.  Allen's injury and Lallana's leginess probably makes this moot for this game in question as the only option was Suso who I don't think is all that much more mobile than Gerrard but I do think it's something that will have to be looked at as when your breaking down a team you need to get overloads to either side so at the point of attack you have the numbers advantage.  If your midfielders can't do that then it's always going to be a tough slog.

Offline Pelé as a Comedian

  • The seeker of the True Cockroach. Forgetful.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,410
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #37 on: September 15, 2014, 05:58:54 pm »
I'm not complaining about Senderos' kick/trip on Mario because he got away with it so fair play. If you wouldn't mind Sakho doing it, shut up.

i would mind if Sakho (or any Liverpool player) tried such a blatant pathetic attempt at winding up an opponent. sly nudges, pokes and cynical tackles, fine.

blatantly kicking a player with the ball not in 15 m radius. no thank you. should/could've been a straight red card.

makes Costa's behaviour and subsequent getting away with it all even more maddening.

Offline L666KOP

  • Wants everyone to fuck off. Especially you. Yes YOU! Too Tender for Tinder. Would swallow his knob on a genuine fuck up.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 21,116
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #38 on: September 15, 2014, 06:38:21 pm »
While they weren't exactly 'shit' I'd also argue they were nowhere near excellent either.  The galling thing for me was that they didn't need to be, such was our inability to build up any sort of momentum or anything approaching consistency in attacks.  In fact I thought they were much better if not last season then certainly the season before at Anfield.  Or maybe it was just that we where even worse then? 


They came with a plan, and not one that contained any secrets either.

A defence of Cissoko, Baker, Senderos, and Hutton kept us to one shot on target.

A midfield duo of Delph and Cleverly pretty much nullified everything we tried to do.

Players that wouldn't get anywhere our squad, let alone our first team.

Like Rafas teams, completely controlled the game, without the ball.

13mins - Bournemouth have gone home. Utd kicked off anyway. Still 0-0 as Smalling passes it back to De Gea.

Offline The Playmaker

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,149
Re: Round Table: Liverpool 0 Aston Villa 1
« Reply #39 on: September 15, 2014, 06:53:54 pm »
Like Rafas teams, completely controlled the game, without the ball.
Yep. This is something in general that they like to do in most games actually. Some teams just aren't that interested in having lots of possession. We didn't ask enough questions of their defence though - or even their midfield. We played it safe far too much and in my mind our team struggled because there was a lack of space to exploit. It was a case of Aston Villa being able to stay compact, organised and they kept their shape very well. They also did put pressure on the ball at times. The fact is, they mostly looked to counter-attack and get set pieces to score.

But we did not ask enough questions or put them under enough sustained pressure. It was a flat performance. I wrote before that this way of playing that they use can work well against bigger teams but it is when they face the teams around them that they can sometimes struggle - because they are expected to do more with the ball. Anyway, we need to learn from this game because there will be other games like this where teams come to Anfield and sit deep and look to be negative. We need to find different ways of unlocking them and look at how we can possibly draw them out of their shape.