Author Topic: Arthur Melo  (Read 119286 times)

Offline Dave McCoy

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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #560 on: September 23, 2022, 08:15:28 pm »
Surely that’s a positive though?

That's a perfectly fine way to look at it. For me it makes me more skeptical. Though as I noted as an LFC fan I hope Arthur is the second coming of a prime aged Socrates.

Offline El Lobo

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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #561 on: September 23, 2022, 08:50:13 pm »
It wouldn't unless you think it is pretty pointless having a recruitment team.

If and it is a big if. Klopp manages to get Melo fit and motivated and then tweaks our system to incorporate a player who doesn't really fit in and it works then the kudos has to go to the manager.

It will be another case of him turning water into wine and for me won't excuse the lack of planning and investment in the playing squad.

If we stumbled upon a Thiago/Gerrard hybrid I wouldn’t really consider then spending my time slagging off the recruitment team, but I also appreciate I’m talking to someone who has spent the vast majority of our successful last four years slagging off most people at the club so I know we won’t agree :)
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #562 on: September 23, 2022, 09:00:25 pm »
That's a perfectly fine way to look at it. For me it makes me more skeptical. Though as I noted as an LFC fan I hope Arthur is the second coming of a prime aged Socrates.


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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #563 on: September 23, 2022, 10:09:52 pm »
It wouldn't unless you think it is pretty pointless having a recruitment team.

If and it is a big if. Klopp manages to get Melo fit and motivated and then tweaks our system to incorporate a player who doesn't really fit in and it works then the kudos has to go to the manager.

It will be another case of him turning water into wine and for me won't excuse the lack of planning and investment in the playing squad.

I think it's a bit harsh to say he doesn't fit in, given we've got such a mishmash of midfielders now anyway. Fit into what exactly? You saw how lost we were without Thiago.

Nobody expects him to be amazing, just to do a solid job when called upon. Ideally like Gini used to or as a Thiago-lite option when Thiago is out (him or Keita).
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Offline B0151?

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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #564 on: September 24, 2022, 10:25:48 am »
I think it's a bit harsh to say he doesn't fit in, given we've got such a mishmash of midfielders now anyway. Fit into what exactly? You saw how lost we were without Thiago.

Nobody expects him to be amazing, just to do a solid job when called upon. Ideally like Gini used to or as a Thiago-lite option when Thiago is out (him or Keita).
Yeah exactly. Everyone is aware his career has stalled and that's why we could get him on loan. No one is expecting big things for him. I just think he should be given a fair crack of the whip. The move will ultimately have accomplished what we set out if he plays in a fair number of games and does a decent job.

I will say though I think our set up has a better chance of getting good out of players than the failed Juventus regime of the past 2 years. They've started this season even worse than when Arthur was there so not really sure Allegri moving him on counts for much...

Offline Eeyore

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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #565 on: September 24, 2022, 11:05:48 am »
If we stumbled upon a Thiago/Gerrard hybrid I wouldn’t really consider then spending my time slagging off the recruitment team, but I also appreciate I’m talking to someone who has spent the vast majority of our successful last four years slagging off most people at the club so I know we won’t agree :)

That would be akin to going round a car boot sale blindfolded buying random things and then congratulating yourself when you somehow strike it lucky. Melo has been freely available on loan for the last two windows and was heavily linked with Arsenal on loan in January.

Melo falls into the same category as Davies and Kabak. Panic loans to cover an abject lack of planning and investment in the playing squad.

Are you really suggesting we carry on in this vein and continually make panic loans if we have injuries ?

Or was it just an opportunity to get a couple of digs in at other posters something you seem to revel in sadly.
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Offline Eeyore

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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #566 on: September 24, 2022, 11:21:01 am »
I think it's a bit harsh to say he doesn't fit in, given we've got such a mishmash of midfielders now anyway. Fit into what exactly? You saw how lost we were without Thiago.

Nobody expects him to be amazing, just to do a solid job when called upon. Ideally like Gini used to or as a Thiago-lite option when Thiago is out (him or Keita).


The likes of Thiago, Gini and Keita are all completely comfortable in a three in this League though. They all have the mobility and athleticism to cover the area in behind the full backs when we push on. I can't really see Melo being able to do that in this league. If he is going to do a job here I would imagine it would be as a double pivot alongside another 6.

That would mean completely changing our shape and our pressing triggers, essentially for a loan player who is likely to be gone next season.

He isn't big enough to play the Fabinho role and drop in between the centre backs and doesn't have the physicality and energy to play either of the wider roles in a three. He is an excellent technical footballer but just like the aforementioned Davies and Kabak he isn't a fit for our system.

That shows the stupidity of our panic loans. We play a very specific system that requires very specific qualities from the players we bring in. Yet we keep bringing in players on short term loans that don't have those qualities. Our centre backs need pace and to be aerially dominant so we sign Konate who fits the bill. That makes sense Davies and Kabak didn't.

We are crying out for athleticism in midfield and are linked with Bellingham who will bring that along with a lot more. That makes sense. We bring in Melo who is a lovely footballer but lacks athleticism that isn't going to work unless we make huge systemic changes.
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Offline Suareznumber7

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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #567 on: September 24, 2022, 12:32:06 pm »
The likes of Thiago, Gini and Keita are all completely comfortable in a three in this League though. They all have the mobility and athleticism to cover the area in behind the full backs when we push on. I can't really see Melo being able to do that in this league. If he is going to do a job here I would imagine it would be as a double pivot alongside another 6.

That would mean completely changing our shape and our pressing triggers, essentially for a loan player who is likely to be gone next season.

He isn't big enough to play the Fabinho role and drop in between the centre backs and doesn't have the physicality and energy to play either of the wider roles in a three. He is an excellent technical footballer but just like the aforementioned Davies and Kabak he isn't a fit for our system.

That shows the stupidity of our panic loans. We play a very specific system that requires very specific qualities from the players we bring in. Yet we keep bringing in players on short term loans that don't have those qualities. Our centre backs need pace and to be aerially dominant so we sign Konate who fits the bill. That makes sense Davies and Kabak didn't.

We are crying out for athleticism in midfield and are linked with Bellingham who will bring that along with a lot more. That makes sense. We bring in Melo who is a lovely footballer but lacks athleticism that isn't going to work unless we make huge systemic changes.

I feel like we should maybe give him a chance before completely writing him off though, shouldn't we?

Offline Asam

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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #568 on: September 24, 2022, 01:08:41 pm »


i’ve not seen enough of Melo to comment on his suitability for the system, i’ll judge him when i’ve actually seen him play a bunch of games for us, i would be amazed if he’s a bad fit for the system, to me that would be unforgivable given the amount of time we had in the summer and before to plan


Offline daggerdoo

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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #569 on: September 24, 2022, 02:24:22 pm »
The concern is his off the ball play, if he can quickly adjust his game to how we'll want him to play I don't see why he can't be a solid player for us. That is only my opinion from online footage tho. He looks a tidy player.

Offline Eeyore

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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #570 on: September 24, 2022, 06:09:15 pm »

i’ve not seen enough of Melo to comment on his suitability for the system, i’ll judge him when i’ve actually seen him play a bunch of games for us, i would be amazed if he’s a bad fit for the system, to me that would be unforgivable given the amount of time we had in the summer and before to plan



How suitable for the system were Ben Davies or Ozan Kabak ?
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Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #571 on: September 24, 2022, 07:47:51 pm »
Comparing Ben Davies and Kabak to Arthur…………

The whole ‘system’ thing is greatly exaggerated also. Klopp is constantly changing his tactics and set-up, he hasn’t got one system that everyone we buy must fit. Harvey and Carvalho are two recent examples of untypical players who are being used in midfield.
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Offline Eeyore

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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #572 on: September 24, 2022, 08:07:51 pm »
Comparing Ben Davies and Kabak to Arthur…………

The whole ‘system’ thing is greatly exaggerated also. Klopp is constantly changing his tactics and set-up, he hasn’t got one system that everyone we buy must fit. Harvey and Carvalho are two recent examples of untypical players who are being used in midfield.

That is kind of the point though.

Elliott and Carvalho are 8's who add an extra attacking dimension. Teams drop off and suck us up the pitch, so we might as well have 8's who are more comfortable playing in the attacking third.

Melo whilst a great technical footballer is the opposite of that. Ideally, he is best employed as a deep lying playmaker in a double pivot. Think Alonso alongside Mascherano. Or as a Thiago replacement alongside Fabinho.

He simply hasn't got the game to play as a largely offensive 8.
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Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #573 on: September 24, 2022, 08:13:02 pm »
Makes you wonder how Thiago does so well for us…….almost like you’re making this stuff up as you go along.
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Offline Suareznumber7

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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #574 on: September 24, 2022, 08:33:29 pm »
That is kind of the point though.

Elliott and Carvalho are 8's who add an extra attacking dimension. Teams drop off and suck us up the pitch, so we might as well have 8's who are more comfortable playing in the attacking third.

Melo whilst a great technical footballer is the opposite of that. Ideally, he is best employed as a deep lying playmaker in a double pivot. Think Alonso alongside Mascherano. Or as a Thiago replacement alongside Fabinho.

He simply hasn't got the game to play as a largely offensive 8.

He played as an 8 in Barcelona.  Busquets was the lone pivot and Arthur played ahead of him. 

Offline Eeyore

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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #575 on: September 24, 2022, 08:52:14 pm »
Makes you wonder how Thiago does so well for us…….almost like you’re making this stuff up as you go along.

Firstly Thiago is levels above Arthur.

Secondly Thiago is incredibly combative, flies into challenges and regularly wins headers against players 5 or 6 inches taller than him.

Thirdly Thiago did struggle at first in this League.
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Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #576 on: September 24, 2022, 08:55:05 pm »
Firstly Thiago is levels above Arthur.

Secondly Thiago is incredibly combative, flies into challenges and regularly wins headers against players 5 or 6 inches taller than him.

Thirdly Thiago did struggle at first in this League.
Did he fuck.
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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #577 on: September 24, 2022, 08:57:17 pm »
That would be akin to going round a car boot sale blindfolded buying random things and then congratulating yourself when you somehow strike it lucky. Melo has been freely available on loan for the last two windows and was heavily linked with Arsenal on loan in January.

Melo falls into the same category as Davies and Kabak. Panic loans to cover an abject lack of planning and investment in the playing squad.

Are you really suggesting we carry on in this vein and continually make panic loans if we have injuries ?

Or was it just an opportunity to get a couple of digs in at other posters something you seem to revel in sadly.

Nope, it was someone saying if we stumbled upon a Gerrard/Thiago hybrid he’d still be annoyed at our recruitment team. And I wouldn’t….because it’d be a Gerrard/Thiago hybrid :) But again, that’s me being more interested in just enjoying the actual game instead of being obsessed with FSG and what we do off the pitch (not a dig, think it’s clear to us all here yourself included)
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Eeyore

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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #578 on: September 24, 2022, 08:57:34 pm »
He played as an 8 in Barcelona.  Busquets was the lone pivot and Arthur played ahead of him. 

That is completely different to playing a system that prioritises the full backs as the foremost creative influence of the team. Melo is pretty good as a mezalla, however the main requirement of the outside players in our midfield three is having the energy to press AND still be able to cover the fullbacks.

Our 8's need to be dynamic. That isn't really Melo's game.
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Offline Eeyore

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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #579 on: September 24, 2022, 09:06:46 pm »
Nope, it was someone saying if we stumbled upon a Gerrard/Thiago hybrid he’d still be annoyed at our recruitment team. And I wouldn’t….because it’d be a Gerrard/Thiago hybrid :) But again, that’s me being more interested in just enjoying the actual game instead of being obsessed with FSG and what we do off the pitch (not a dig, think it’s clear to us all here yourself included)

No the point was if Melo turns into a Gerrard/Thiago hybrid.

Good luck with that. Gerrard was probably one of the best athletes we have ever had at the club.

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Offline Eeyore

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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #580 on: September 24, 2022, 09:11:32 pm »
Did he fuck.

From the man himself "As is always the case when you’re adapting, it has been a good year but at the start I had tough times. I feel that I’ve overcome those now and I’m looking forward to this season".

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Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #581 on: September 24, 2022, 09:17:14 pm »
From the man himself "As is always the case when you’re adapting, it has been a good year but at the start I had tough times. I feel that I’ve overcome those now and I’m looking forward to this season".
Klopp: I’ve said a few times, I’m not the best manager in the world but I’m really good at staying on track.

Two people being humble, Doesn’t make either statement true though does it.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2022, 09:20:32 pm by Funky_Gibbons »
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Offline Eeyore

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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #582 on: September 24, 2022, 09:27:24 pm »
Klopp: I’ve said a few times, I’m not the best manager in the world but I’m really good at staying on track.

Two people being humble, Doesn’t make either statement true though does it.

One is being humble and saying he isn't the greatest manager. The other is Thiago saying he had tough times when he was trying to adapt to the League.

If you want to combine Thiago and Klopp into a quote then how about Thiago telling Klopp he taught him to run.

That is the problem Melo faces. He isn't tall enough to play the Fabinho role so he will have to learn to run. That is what our 8's have to do.
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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #583 on: September 24, 2022, 09:31:43 pm »
Makes you wonder how Thiago does so well for us…….almost like you’re making this stuff up as you go along.

 :lmao
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Offline Eeyore

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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #584 on: September 24, 2022, 09:44:13 pm »
:lmao

It is easy to confuse Thiago and Melo.

One has won 11 League titles and the other is called Arthur.

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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #585 on: September 24, 2022, 09:51:27 pm »
Makes you wonder how Thiago does so well for us…….almost like you’re making this stuff up as you go along.

Thiago physically is very good. It’s bizarre how people still don’t highlight the physical part of his game simply because he has extraordinary technical ability, Arthur may be comparable in some ways but if he had the physicality and tenacity Thiago had we wouldn’t only be getting him on loan.

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #586 on: September 24, 2022, 10:00:50 pm »
Thiago physically is very good. It’s bizarre how people still don’t highlight the physical part of his game simply because he has extraordinary technical ability, Arthur may be comparable in some ways but if he had the physicality and tenacity Thiago had we wouldn’t only be getting him on loan.
That post was in response to the bollocks above about what we expect from our #8’s but it doesn’t describe Thiago’s abilities or what he brings to the team. It’s funny whenever a point like this is made there’s always a ‘yeah but…..’ shortly after.

No-one knows how it’s going to work out for Arthur here but certain posters are laying the foundations to carry on their anti FSG rhetoric.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2022, 10:02:40 pm by Funky_Gibbons »
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Offline Eeyore

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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #587 on: September 24, 2022, 10:01:06 pm »
Thiago physically is very good. It’s bizarre how people still don’t highlight the physical part of his game simply because he has extraordinary technical ability, Arthur may be comparable in some ways but if he had the physicality and tenacity Thiago had we wouldn’t only be getting him on loan.

At times Thiago is overcommitted, which is very rare for a player with his technical abilities. He is also a monster over 3 or 4 yards and out jumps people 5 or 6 inches taller than him.

The positive is that Melo recognises he needs to improve physically and looks as he wants to do the work to get there. However, the reality is that we needed a midfield player who could come in and provide energy from the off.

Melo isn't that player.
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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #588 on: September 24, 2022, 10:02:07 pm »
No the point was if Melo turns into a Gerrard/Thiago hybrid.

Good luck with that. Gerrard was probably one of the best athletes we have ever had at the club.

:lmao
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Eeyore

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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #589 on: September 24, 2022, 10:03:48 pm »
I know
That post was in response to the bollocks above about what we expect from our #8’s but it doesn’t describe Thiago’s abilities or what he brings to the team. It’s funny whenever a point like this is made there’s always a ‘yeah but…..’ shortly after.

No-one knows how it’s going to work out for Arthur here but certain posters are laying the foundations to carry on their anti FSG rhetoric.

Thiago has the ability to play in a three, press and cover the full backs. That is what we expect from our 8's.

Melo at present simply cannot do that. Is that really that hard to comprehend.
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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #590 on: September 24, 2022, 10:07:04 pm »
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Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #591 on: September 24, 2022, 10:13:07 pm »
Teams drop off and suck us up the pitch, so we might as well have 8's who are more comfortable playing in the attacking third.

He simply hasn't got the game to play as a largely offensive 8.

however the main requirement of the outside players in our midfield three is having the energy to press AND still be able to cover the fullbacks.

Thiago has the ability to play in a three, press and cover the full backs. That is what we expect from our 8's.

Melo at present simply cannot do that. Is that really that hard to comprehend.
The way you’re constantly adding to what is expected from our midfielders, then yes, it is hard to comprehend.
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Offline El Lobo

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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #592 on: September 24, 2022, 10:37:24 pm »
Honestly Al go back to FSG bashing, you make more sense (which is a hell of an indictment :D)
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Eeyore

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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #593 on: September 24, 2022, 10:52:04 pm »
The way you’re constantly adding to what is expected from our midfielders, then yes, it is hard to comprehend.

It isn't difficult to comprehend.

We play with three out-and-out and out forwards and two full backs that push on. So the three in midfield are required to press, defend the areas the full backs expose and cover vast areas. That is why playing in the midfield three for us is incredibly difficult.

Above all it requires energy and athleticism, especially for the 8's.

That isn't Melo.
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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #594 on: September 24, 2022, 10:52:17 pm »
Thiago saying he had a tough time at the start could be as much, if not more, to do with his arriving here in a pandemic and then a lockdown, and then catching Covid and then being brutally injured in his second or third match or whatever it was and being out for months.

Just a thought, like...
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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #595 on: September 24, 2022, 10:58:42 pm »
Thiago saying he had a tough time at the start could be as much, if not more, to do with his arriving here in a pandemic and then a lockdown, and then catching Covid and then being brutally injured in his second or third match or whatever it was and being out for months.

Just a thought, like...

Melo hasn't had a senior start yet and has a similar injury record to Thiago.
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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #596 on: September 24, 2022, 11:05:12 pm »
Melo hasn't had a senior start yet and has a similar injury record to Thiago.

Might be too soon to be writing him off then?

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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #597 on: September 24, 2022, 11:22:33 pm »
How suitable for the system were Ben Davies or Ozan Kabak ?

Kabak did okay for us, we wouldn’t have got top 4 without him that season, Klopp obviously didn’t fancy Davies so can’t comment on him

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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #598 on: September 24, 2022, 11:25:23 pm »
Might be too soon to be writing him off then?

No one is writing him off.

The issue is for him to succeed, we need one of two things to happen. Either he shows unseen levels of athleticism that allows us to continue with the way we play or Klopp tweaks his system to accommodate Melo.

They are both remote possibilities at this time.
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Re: Arthur Melo
« Reply #599 on: September 24, 2022, 11:31:27 pm »
No one is writing him off.

The issue is for him to succeed, we need one of two things to happen. Either he shows unseen levels of athleticism that allows us to continue with the way we play or Klopp tweaks his system to accommodate Melo.

They are both remote possibilities at this time.

It's splitting hairs to say in the same post that you're not writing him off but at the same time any chance of success he has is one of two "remote possibilities".

He may well not be a success at LFC but it seems fair to give him a chance before giving up on him.