Author Topic: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..  (Read 18327 times)

Offline Hinesy

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The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« on: March 28, 2008, 12:32:46 am »
I’m in the process of selling my flat, a place where I’ve lived since 1991, probably the longest I’ve lived anywhere all my life and naturally with a whisky in one hand, one becomes reflective, looking back over how things have changed since that time.

Luckily for you, this site is about Liverpool FC, not www.how-fashions-changed-since-the-90’s.com, so you don’t have to read about the seersucker suit I had back then, but instead get the bit about how my team, our team has changed, over that time, how things in football have changed in my humble opinion.

For a start when I was unpacking in Sept 91, a certain Mr G Souness was made manager, winning the FA Cup but little else. The away grey kit was abandoned, Mark Walters was playing for us and Peter Beardsley was making the trip across the park.

I also remember painting a bedroom listening to Blackburn lose to us but win the championship and cheering out loud as the mustard yellow paint sploshed around as the small team up the road lost to West Ham..

I’d, like many, lost a bit of interest in the on field playing of the club following on from Hillsborough only a couple of years earlier, but nothing had prepared me for the Premier League and the SKY years of football.

You see, for the length I’ve lived here, effectively football has existed in its new form of the Premier League, the footy on the satellite dishes, the influx of money into the game and the influx of foreign players into the game.

I’ve lived through other smaller teams winning the European Cup in extra time, of other lesser teams, claiming glory and showing off, and the memories of our lot walking out on Wembley’s funny cut grass in white suits only to lost to some other small club.

But I’ve also seen Roy Evans, the epitomy of a decent man, try to rail against the tide of ‘progress’ only to be sidelined by Gerard, bringing false hope but also European Glory, I’ve seen us beat Barcelona at home, a wonderful memory not for the win but for the sheer fact that the big guns of Europe, were firing at Anfield.

For me Liverpool are the most European of English clubs in terms of our history and pedigree. Yes I know the league is ‘bread and butter’ but I don’t like the sliced stuff and if ever a ground truly came alive, its Anfield on a European night.

And that’s why when Houllier did wake the giant that was Liverpool Football Club, as much as Roy kept us playing in the top four, I will always be grateful to Ged because during his time, something deep within our soul stirred, a slumbering giant awoke and fans went to the grounds with tales of old Euro games, of the Kop rousing itself as one and singing out loud, proud that across France and Spain and Italy and Germany, Liverpool FC had indeed been on holiday but by god we were back.

And we were. The new century brought  the 2001 season, and three things stick out for me, firstly Robbie’s goal against Charlton to take us to the Champions League after the dizzy heights of Dortmund, secondly, Owen’s second goal v Arsenal in the FA Cup where he lived up to his promise and skinned the best defence in the country, (apart from our two SH’s naturally) and finally the crazy game in Germany where we won the UEFA Cup.

I like the UEFA Cup, it’s a great trophy, and it taught me my geography. Keep your Bayern Munich’s everyone knows where they’re from (The village of Bayern innit?) – the UEFA Cup gave you Spartaks and Lepzigs and teams with numbers in them, Schalke04 and so on.

These in the days of the cold war were exotic exciting locations, but even in the new millennium, the UEFA Cup still gave us a reminder of what we were about abroad, Liverpool back on the road.

Then there was Ged’s illness, v Leeds, the Kop spilling out after the game with people asking the taxi drivers what the news was filtering through the air, Sit down Pinnochio became the new cheap away song, and Thommo acquitted himself well.

Then there was Roma, I was almost late for the game, running up to Anfield, sat like a massive spaceship aglow in the middle of the houses, lit up and throbbing with anticipation, I got in just as YNWA started up and you just knew there was magic in the air. No matter what Mr Capello does with that other small club, England, he will always have my respect for hugging Ged, wait, was it true, the wildfire chatter running round the ground like a cheap Mexican Wave, was Houllier back down there with his little red scarf, yes it was and there was Fabio giving him a hug.

We couldn’t lose that night and we didn’t.

But the sunshiners and others all picked over the bones of Ged’s demise, he was never the same, and Liverpool went quiet til Rafa showed up and asked for a three legged table.

I’d watched Valencia make us look a bit silly, when they beat us 2-0 at there’s and here was the architect of that game, not like Houllier proclaiming any arcane link, standing on the Kop as a young un etc, but he knew how special it was.


2005 has been well documented elsewhere, but for me, the Chelsea semi final still gets the hairs on the back of my neck going, the last 6 minutes, Gudlordsonyou’vemissed’s fluff at the end, I swear I could name 1,000 Reds who thought it was going in, the sheer noise of the game, you couldn’t hear yourself and the hoarseness lasted for days, us staying back singing and chanting and singing and shouting and singing and cheering and singing. Jose could fuck right off that night, truly there was a 12th man, it was us the crowd and I’m not surprised Chelsea were stunned, because so were our players by the sheer need to win, the sheer will of the fans… My good pal Michael tells me it was just written in the stars that year, well the nerves, the desire and the will of the Kop that night will rarely be surpassed, because we’d had famine and now we feasted.

2006 was a hangover frankly, that’s all I remember, everything was dulled after Istanbul, if our club was put into cold storage the moment Jerzy’s hand touched Shevchenko’s penalty, many of us would’ve accepted that and said yes, we’ve had some good times and that’ll do us now.

And then last year, we were duped by two yanks and still no closer to the league as much as I love what Rafa has done for us.

Over the time I’ve seen 4 managers try to raise Liverpool up to the heights of the League again, to make us a consistently great team and they have all to some degree succeeded and failed in varying measures.

But my feelings for my team as I look back at the time in this flat, is one of enduring happiness, frustration and above all love for that unique thing, it’s not the players, though I shout for them every week, its not the manager though I back him to the hilt and its not the bloody owners, its that intangible thing that is simply ‘Liverpool’.

And no matter where I’ll stay in my life, it’ll stay with me.


I should add after reading some of the kind posts below, that nothing is certain in life except death, taxes and the club you support. No matter what changes in my life, that'll always be with me.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2008, 04:24:28 pm by hinesy »
Yep.

Offline Stussy

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2008, 12:37:16 am »

Cracking whisky fueled looking-back-in-time post that mate. Cheers.

Need to listen to this whilst reading that post fellas

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=o2d2llB4oIQ

"My idea was to build Liverpool into a bastion of invincibility. Napoleon had that idea. He wanted to conquer the bloody world. I wanted Liverpool to be untouchable. My idea was to build Liverpool up and up until eventually everyone would have to submit and give in."

Offline litmanen37

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Re: You have to take your hat off to Arsene Wenger...
The only way id take my hat off to him, is if i was odd job, then id throw it at the c*nt!

Offline daveypauly

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2008, 12:41:03 am »
Are you getting your deposit back?

Offline MJL

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2008, 12:41:04 am »
link doesn't work
  :shocked  :lmao


Brilliant post too,

Offline Franck Le Poof

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2008, 12:41:40 am »
Beautiful post.
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Offline The Jackal

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2008, 12:45:07 am »
Great read that, and some fantastic memories...

I think it's a fact of life that things change - including footie (and it has changed oh so much in the last 19 years). Sometimes those changes seem for the worse, and that can be hard to accept.

There have been times this season - when the ownership issues seemed at their worst (though I know that story hasn't run it's course yet) - when I asked myself "Am I starting to fall out of love with football?"

The thing that always brings me back though (and probably always will) are those great memories of all the amazing times I've lived through with this football club. My football club...
Blanco y en botella. Es leche, no?

Offline carling

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2008, 12:46:30 am »


Well just came in after a fair few beers wanting just a quick read on RAWK and didn't expect to read something I would enjoy quite as much as I did that, thank you sir.

Offline BazC

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2008, 12:50:48 am »
Man I love this club....

Thanks for a top read  :wave
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Offline El_Nino_9

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2008, 12:52:07 am »
'kin a mate, truly brilliant post, and good luck with the move. :)

Offline timiano

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2008, 12:54:28 am »
Absolutely beautiful!

Please send that to a publisher/paper. It is both poetic and poignant, and one of the best posts I have 'ever' read on here!

I salute you.




Offline gray19lfc

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2008, 12:56:33 am »
Brilliant post that lad.  Good luck for the future.

Offline DRice

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2008, 01:00:52 am »
I think of this time in 3 distinct eras

The Souness AND Evans years , all one big era with the Spice Boys, McManaman , Redknapp, Neil Ruddock, extra time games against Ipswich in the FA Cup. Games on SKY in the county bar

The Houillier years Gary McAllister, Marcus babel, being really good in 2001, Micahel Owen, being boring

The Benitez years, Istanbul, Stephen Gerrard and all of that, Athens, Fernando Torres, "Campioni the one and only "
Diego Maradona: "The English club proved that miracles really do exist. I've now made Liverpool my English team. They showed that football is the most beautiful sport of all. You knew they could defend but the team showed they could play too and wrote a page in the history books. The match will last forever. "

Offline Hightown Phil

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2008, 01:04:34 am »
So it's your fucking fault then.

Online smithy

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2008, 01:05:05 am »
the last 6 minutes, Gudlordsonyou’vemissed’s fluff at the end, I swear I could name 1,000 Reds who thought it was going in, the sheer noise of the game, you couldn’t hear yourself and the hoarseness lasted for days
I remember the cheer when everyone saw it go wide. It wasnt one of those stupid ironic cheers that you hear so much now, it was a "we're in the European Cup Final cheer"!!
People tell me it was raining that day but i was so happy i didnt notice it at all!
2006 was a hangover frankly, that’s all I remember, everything was dulled after Istanbul, if our club was put into cold storage the moment Jerzy’s hand touched Shevchenko’s penalty, many of us would’ve accepted that and said yes, we’ve had some good times and that’ll do us now.
Thats exactly what i thought at the time. I remember thinking that it probably wont get any better than that day.

Offline Hinesy

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2008, 01:05:30 am »
that's a great way of looking at it DRice, of course, there's Gary Mac's free kick, and his goal v Barca, there's the Campione song which sums up Liverpool supporters more than most songs and stuff like Robbie's freekick v Tranmere in the cup, you could go on and on...

cheers for the other posts, I'm moving round the corner hopefully but its not til you take stock that you realise what certain things mean to you.
Yep.

Offline Stussy

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2008, 01:17:12 am »

The thing is, it's only when moments of change like this happen that you realise you've measured your life out in Liverpool FC.

When you're young everything is a breeze and you can't think past Saturday night. Then you start to grow up, move on. Kenny retires. You're sad. You move on. Stop going the match so often. Fall in love, move to London. Things take second place, but it's always there in your subconscious even when you're not thinking of it.

Before you know it you're pushing thirty and you look back and all the memories are tied up with your happiest and saddest days and you realise your Uncle who comforted you after the Wimbledon FA Cup final and you remember playing football with after the double season final against Everton is no longer with you. And relationships come and go but some things stay the same. But there's always Liverpool and you can measure your life out by it.

Sometimes I think the worst thing about being dead when you're time is up is that you'll miss all our future glory and joy. We've been the luckiest generation in Liverpool's history, and because of the tragedy, we've been the unluckiest too.

September to May of every season is how you mark your life out with our beautiful club.



"My idea was to build Liverpool into a bastion of invincibility. Napoleon had that idea. He wanted to conquer the bloody world. I wanted Liverpool to be untouchable. My idea was to build Liverpool up and up until eventually everyone would have to submit and give in."

Offline Gus 1855

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2008, 01:24:40 am »


I was just about to doze off, but you have just filled my head with memories. Now I won't be able to sleep for ages!!!


Damn your outstanding post!

:wave
It looks to me as if we have signed another 'average' player. I'll hold back my complete opinion until I see the lad play

Offline deef

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2008, 01:26:44 am »
Thats why we are different from the rest, and you sir, are a poet. The Utmost respect to you and your wishes.
 :wave

Offline navin

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2008, 01:52:08 am »
Fantastic read mate...
Liverpool Forever !

Offline 4pool

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2008, 01:57:21 am »
Hinsey, good one.



You know i've been here and there in my life around the country and other parts of the globe. But there is nothing, nothing that compares to that "feeling" one gets walking up to Anfield. Daytime or night.

I've been asked by many where would you live. The beach, the mountains, the islands....and it's not about where you  live for me it's about the next visit to Anfield.

I've seen some great matches, some good ones, and a few poor ones. But Anfield is always the place to be.

Either we are a club of supporters or become a club of customers.

Offline kingjari

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2008, 02:25:59 am »
a great post mate, brought back some good  memories, especially the Roma game. thank you
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Offline Manila Vanilla

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2008, 02:37:41 am »
19 years? Is it 2010 already?
Who won the Champions League in 2008?!

Offline Red_in_Holland

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2008, 02:45:07 am »
Nice one, Hinesy ;)

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Offline el nino l.f.c. 5 times

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2008, 03:03:31 am »
good post mate

Offline legoflamb

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2008, 03:05:11 am »
The thing is, it's only when moments of change like this happen that you realise you've measured your life out in Liverpool FC. 

When you're young everything is a breeze and you can't think past Saturday night. Then you start to grow up, move on. Kenny retires. You're sad. You move on. Stop going the match so often. Fall in love, move to London. Things take second place, but it's always there in your subconscious even when you're not thinking of it.

Before you know it you're pushing thirty and you look back and all the memories are tied up with your happiest and saddest days and you realise your Uncle who comforted you after the Wimbledon FA Cup final and you remember playing football with after the double season final against Everton is no longer with you. And relationships come and go but some things stay the same. But there's always Liverpool and you can measure your life out by it.

Sometimes I think the worst thing about being dead when you're time is up is that you'll miss all our future glory and joy. We've been the luckiest generation in Liverpool's history, and because of the tragedy, we've been the unluckiest too.

September to May of every season is how you mark your life out with our beautiful club.

Had me in tears this thread, and what you said above Stussy about our lives being linked indelibly with that of the club, is spot on.  No truer words have I ever heard spoken.

This season has been a tumultuous one, what with ownership sagas, false dawns, and a horrible sense of uncertainty pervading everything the club is, has been, and will be.  But what is certain is that this season will be one I remember fondly for the rest of my life. 

After moving away to university, and to America for a few years, I found myself back home in September, back in and amongst the people, places and memories that have formed the bulk of my life, and more importantly, my love affair with Liverpool football club.  My Grandad, who first stood on the Kop in 1931, and who breathed life into the moving images I saw on the screen in the mid 80s - I saw, felt and desired his passion and knowledge for the club - died in 2006.  It was painful at first not having him to talk to about the match.  Friends had moved away, friends who I would have gone to the match with, friends who dared to dream, just as I did, of seeing and feeling the glory that we were too young to have experienced properly.  Lots of people in my life for whom Liverpool was also everything, seemed to have gone, or moved on.  Don't get me wrong, I have always loved Liverpool.  It's been ingrained in me, but I wondered if I'd ever feel quite that same excitement (and by excitement, I don't mean results, I mean the almost mythical force that surrounds the club) I did when I used to walk up for the Football Echo with my Grandad when I was 7, or when I walked out for the first time at Anfield as a 10 year old.

But this season, I have.  I've seen and felt that excitement manifest itself in many perverse and wonderful ways.  I've seen us lose to Barnsley, but I've seen us beat the mighty Inter Milan; felt the despair and unbridled joy of the Kop.  I've seen the emergence of a player who will, I have no doubt, become an Anfield legend, seen him score two back-to-back hat-tricks, and bounced with the best of them.  I've sang my heart out.  I've protested.  I've met reds who, whether you agree with their actions or not, have stood up, and who are still standing up, willing to be counted.  I've seen sun shine, I've seen rain pour.  I've seen summer turn into winter, turn into spring.  I've spent money I haven't got.  I've been to the match alone, with my best friends, with friends from afar, who I haven't seen for years.  I've walked up and down the streets my Grandad did 70 years ago, and various members of my family have since.  I've lamented the realisation that one day very soon, the place in the world I love the most - one of the only places in the world that has stood unshakable, proud and consistent, whilst I have grown from a 10 year old boy into a 25 year old man - will be gone.  But I've accepted that has to be.  All of this for the love of something so completely intangible, yet so completely omnipresent; so completely existence-affirming.
 
Circumstances will change in the future.  I won't always be able to go to every match.  I won't always feel that youthful exuberance which I do now, that desire to follow the club everywhere, whatever the cost (financially or otherwise).  But whatever happens next season, or the season after, I'll always have had this season.  I've done little else in my life since last September.  Very little.  But I have experienced a season with Liverpool football club that will live long in the memory.  A season in which, as you say Stussy, my life has truly been marked and dictated to by nothing other than my club. 


And now we're coming to the end of this season, and whilst I'm looking forward to the games to come, I'm a little sad that, almost inevitably, I won't experience a season like I have this.  When the whistle blows come May (hopefully amidst scenes of triumph in Moscow), it'll be time for me to start thinking about what the future holds, and where my career may take me.  It may well be the case that I'll have to move away again.  Should that be the case, and should I be able to get to the match less and less - should I be able to immerse myself less and less in the everyday goings on of the club, what IS certain, is that I will continue to love this club with every ounce and inch of my being.  I've fallen more in love with Liverpool football club this season.  I never thought that was possible, but is truly is.  But even more importantly, as you say Stussy, my life, my past, present and future, will continue to be measured by this fucking amazing club, and everything it entails.

"There is no-one that compares with you..."

See you here in 18 years time Hinesy, to reflect on what I hope will prove a defining era.

Offline tHe^CuLpRit

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2008, 04:41:24 am »
Thought you were abandoning football or something  ;D

Great post mate, pretty much sums up how we all feel about the past 10 years or so.  :wave
As Shankly once said form is temporary, being shite is permanent.

Offline crosa

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2008, 05:02:39 am »
cheers for that. great read.

Offline LiverBirdKop

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2008, 05:15:24 am »
I’m in the process of selling my flat, a place where I’ve lived since 1991, probably the longest I’ve lived anywhere all my life and naturally with a whisky in one hand, one becomes reflective, looking back over how things have changed since that time.

Bout f-ing time you decided to sell. Now we'll probably win the league next year™;D

Thanks for the nice read.

Offline Mascherrardorres

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2008, 05:55:08 am »
Excellent read, hinsey.
This is one of the reasons why Liverpool supporters were, are and always will be the best.

Similarly, this turbulent season has somewhat made me form a closer bond to the club.
YNWA

Offline minusone

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #30 on: March 28, 2008, 06:10:59 am »
Top marks.
That's win a few essay contests and maybe a Pulitzer lad.

;D
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Offline hiphopdj

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2008, 07:21:01 am »
great post spot on Liverpool never leaves you.
For those of you watching in blue and white this is what a european cup looks like.

Offline BootleRed

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2008, 08:30:36 am »
Get packing lad......you're a fucking jinx ;)

Good luck with the move and a nice piece.
We're not English -We are Scouse.

Offline SmallwoodRed

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2008, 08:35:11 am »
Great read.
Interested to see your views on houllier - spot on in my opinion.
I think we were really going places before his illness and he was never the same again afterwards. His treatment by certain fans was a discrace for a man who really moved us on and got us starting to believe we could win things. In many ways he has been his and rafas worst enemy because his treble year reminded us of what it felt like to be talked about as a force again and thus expectations rose, probably beyond what was practically possible.
Remember that before under evans we were really a sort of newcastle - lot of style, played great stuff at times but barely won a thing. Suddenly under houllier we were beating barca in european semi finals and stinging arsenal in the last 10 mins of the cup final. I'll never forget coming home on the train after the cup final thinking 'this is it, we are nearly there'. Noone was talking about united anymore and indeed we pippd them to second in 2002 - a fact people easily forget
It was false hope because it never got better than that but i think the feeling that we were great came back under him and was a major factor in us winning the champs league in 2005.

Online NickoH

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2008, 08:39:41 am »
Magic read hinsey :)
I clutch the wire fence until my fingers bleed,
A wound that will not heal, a heart that cannot feel.
Hoping that the horror will recede,
Hoping that tomorrow we'll all be freed.........JUSTICE.

Offline King Kenny Play

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #35 on: March 28, 2008, 09:14:07 am »
Superb post lar !! Very moving !!
 ;)
"The people who come to watch us play, who love the team and regard it as part of their lives, would never appreciate Liverpool having a huge balance in the bank. They want every asset we possess to be wearing a red shirt."

‘Football is like a piano. You need eight people to carry it, and three people to play the damn thing!’

Offline GinKop

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #36 on: March 28, 2008, 09:17:39 am »
Now THAT is what I call a post.
JFT97

Offline todda

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #37 on: March 28, 2008, 09:29:13 am »
Great Post that Lad,  Stirred up some great memories and back of neck hairs.

Good luck in your new accomodation :wave
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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #38 on: March 28, 2008, 09:42:19 am »
I enjoyed that - makes a changge from all the doom and gloom being posted on here lately
"If you can't say anything nice, don't say nothing at all"  Thumper (1942)

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Offline marvellous10

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Re: The last 19 years, some thoughts before I move..
« Reply #39 on: March 28, 2008, 09:56:41 am »
Good post hinesy, along with Stussy.  Regardless of how good/bad we're doing LFC is our heart - cannot live without it.
SoS #364