Topic: Gay Footballers

[Persephone]

Raised a few times but do these reasons apply to ex pros? If anything it would give you a boost if you want to pursue a media career.

I think that there is a reason not to come out, who wants the added scrutiny based solely on one's sexuality? I don't think most sane people want their private lives being up for discussion even if it's for monetary gain.

[electricghost]

If you're asked who you're seeing, just tell them?

I just don't see what the issue is?

I know you don't and that's the problem.

The consequences for a gay footballer telling their team mates and the wider population who they are seeing or attracted to are potentially worse than for a straight man doing the same. That is it in a nutshell.  It would be great if we can get to a situation where this is not the case, but we are not there yet, and it's easy for someone not facing this greater risk to say I don't see what the problem is. Maybe you should spend more time thinking about it.

[Something Else]

I know you don't and that's the problem.

The consequences for a gay footballer telling their team mates and the wider population who they are seeing or attracted to are potentially worse than for a straight man doing the same. That is it in a nutshell.  It would be great if we can get to a situation where this is not the case, but we are not there yet, and it's easy for someone not facing this greater risk to say I don't see what the problem is. Maybe you should spend more time thinking about it.

i get your point, but there are two types of people making this a big issue. Those that will use it as a method of abuse, and those who want it to happen as a flag or line in the sand moment and are likely to make a big deal of it.

Those that are not arsed are not the problem here

[10 years on]

I'd highly doubt that 5% figure is right, I say a very very small percentage of footballers are gay.

[Something Else]

I'd highly doubt that 5% figure is right, I say a very very small percentage of footballers are gay.

I would ask the question, why would the % of footballers differ to the average population %

Only official figures i have seen are from 2015 census. Now they are only as accurate as those who answer them, and if those answer them correctly, and that suggests 2% of UK men are gay.

[afc tukrish]

Not sure if they count as 'top level' but there have already been two active professional players come out - Justin Fashanu and Glen Hysen's boy Anton in the Swedish 2nd Division.

Robbie Rogers, who plays at Los Angeles Galaxy, came out in 2013...

Yes, cue the "top level" jokes...

[Inpeace]

I think that there is a reason not to come out, who wants the added scrutiny based solely on one's sexuality? I don't think most sane people want their private lives being up for discussion even if it's for monetary gain.

Is that the same in wider society though, there are plenty of gay film stars & singers for example (and everyday people).  Although a PA I know in the industry tells me that a lot of stars we think are straight are in fact gay... "He's gay, oh he's gay, he's gay too"

[dalarr]

i think we have got to a weird point. A footballer being gay is no big deal, it doesn't matter to me to be honest. I could not give a shit.

Thing is though, the press, media and many fans are so desperate to make the first lad that does it some kind of hero that it must put off loads of the lads.

That's a very valid point, haven't thought of that before. They may also be afraid of the reaction from the stands. When you see what some black players must endure in certain stadiums I understand that they are reluctant to be honest about it.

Breaks my heart, really. Imagine not being able/allowed to love. It must be very hard mentally.

[10 years on]

I would ask the question, why would the % of footballers differ to the average population %

Only official figures i have seen are from 2015 census. Now they are only as accurate as those who answer them, and if those answer them correctly, and that suggests 2% of UK men are gay.

I know it's stereotypical but it just would.
This reminds me of when some teacher in secondary school said that one in four people are gay, and the rest of the day the whole class were making lists of who they thought were the 7 gay people 

[Something Else]

I know it's stereotypical but it just would.
This reminds me of when some teacher in secondary school said that one in four people are gay, and the rest of the day the whole class were making lists of who they thought were the 7 gay people 

so do you think there are less gay men in football as a % to general society or more?

[Pensby]

I'd have thought that in any working and social environment it's pretty easy to determine within your group who is gay and who is straight, but within your group it doesn't matter so it never is an issue and doesn't get pointed out.  But then, I'm an aging hippy liberal who tends to move within such groups so maybe not representative.

[electricghost]

i get your point, but there are two types of people making this a big issue. Those that will use it as a method of abuse, and those who want it to happen as a flag or line in the sand moment and are likely to make a big deal of it.

Those that are not arsed are not the problem here

That would also fall under the consequences are worse point I was making. 

[10 years on]

so do you think there are less gay men in football as a % to general society or more?

less

[redmark]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08z2jpc/gareth-thomas-v-homophobia-hate-in-the-beautiful-game

This was on BBC a couple of weeks ago. A good and at times uncomfortable/maddening watch. Gareth Thomas, big tough - and gay - rugby player, being quite shocked at the levels of homophobia on display at football matches, then trying (and failing) to address issues with the PL, FA etc.

[redmark]

so do you think there are less gay men in football as a % to general society or more?

Less. I'm sure the industry/company I work in has several times it's average share .

[CraigDS]

I wonder when/how Ronaldo is going to come out of the closet

Is this some attempt at humour where the punch line is him being gay would be a negative on who he is?

[peterstone]

I know you don't and that's the problem.

The consequences for a gay footballer telling their team mates and the wider population who they are seeing or attracted to are potentially worse than for a straight man doing the same. That is it in a nutshell.  It would be great if we can get to a situation where this is not the case, but we are not there yet, and it's easy for someone not facing this greater risk to say I don't see what the problem is. Maybe you should spend more time thinking about it.

Ive thought about it and still don't see what the issue is.

I started a new job 16 months ago. 2 of the blokes in my department are gay but they didn't come out and tell me as such. It came out as they told me (it boring detail) as to what they got up to at the weekends with their partners.

Nobody treats them differently. At least not from what I can see anyway. They don't tell us of them getting grief in their life outside work.
Obviously theyre not footballers.

Maybe, just maybe  if it became knowledge that a Premier league player was gay then shock, horror it wouldn't be as big a deal as several seem to think it would be.

[peterstone]

That's a very valid point, haven't thought of that before. They may also be afraid of the reaction from the stands. When you see what some black players must endure in certain stadiums I understand that they are reluctant to be honest about it.

Breaks my heart, really. Imagine not being able/allowed to love. It must be very hard mentally.

Its interesting you mention racism.
I remember when Justin Fashanu came out. 1989/1990 ish. The following Saturday his brother John got a lot of stick about it at the game he was playing in. Cat calls, wolf whistling etc. He scored a great goal. From his point of view I suppose the homophobic stuff made a change from the racism he usually had to endure. To be fair John Fashanu's views on his brother and sexuality weren't the best either to say the least.

I was at The Arsenal Stadium approx. 30 years ago to the week (God I'm getting old) for the opening fixture of the 1987-88 season to see John Barnes and Peter Beardsley make their debuts. I clearly recall standing in the corner of the Clock End in the away section as we defended a corner in the first half and John Barnes took up his position at the near post. A banana flew from over my head and landed at John Barnes' feet. He picked it up and threw it behind the goal.  A few minutes later, same situation. this time the banana wasn't as accurate and it landed near Charlie Nicholas who picked it up, shook his head at the crowd and threw it behind the goal.
I'm not saying things like this don't happen anymore but we have generally moved on a lot with racism in football and I believe we would be a lot more grown up about homophobia as well. I hope.

About 5 years ago on the front page of the Mirror they had a picture of a fan at Stamford Bridge with his hands under his armpits and an oval shape to his mouth. He was monkey chanting Danny Welbeck (I think it was Welbeck). ONE bloke....on the front page of the paper.

I went to Stamford Bridge, last league game of the season, a week before the Cup Final in 1988 for Chelsea 1 Liverpool 1 and the stick Digger took was untold. 3 sides of the ground monkey chanting. Not one bloke. Thousands. This isn't an anti Chelsea thing either because we weren't always the best either. 'De-Oh, De-Oh, Daylight come and me wanna go home'. I haven't forgotten that ringing round Anfield.

I really do think we as fans have moved on a lot. I don't think someone coming out now would be the stuff of nightmares but who knows.

[Purple Red]

i think we have got to a weird point. A footballer being gay is no big deal, it doesn't matter to me to be honest. I could not give a shit.

Thing is though, the press, media and many fans are so desperate to make the first lad that does it some kind of hero that it must put off loads of the lads.

I mean, they have probably at one point or other been called all kinds for being gay, or acting gay, or have spent loads of time hiding it for fear of the abuse, but now i wonder if its gone the other way and they just can't be arsed with the faux admiration and moral shite that so many will force on to them for just telling us they are gay.

Why the obsession and clambering for it i don't know. constantly making out that the first person to openly come out will be worshipped is the problem. Why will they be worshipped, cos they are gay? why does it even matter

Bang on. Nobody should be defined by their sexuality and counter productively the media/LGBT lobby would do exactly that with the first lad to come out. He would be defined for the rest of his professional career by his sexuality when all everybody wants is equal treatment. To be honest, I imagine many gay footballers wouldn't particularly care for that added scrutiny on their private lives. The same way most straight footballers wouldn't want their wives and kids scrutinised by the media.

[electricghost]

Ive thought about it and still don't see what the issue is.

I started a new job 16 months ago. 2 of the blokes in my department are gay but they didn't come out and tell me as such. It came out as they told me (it boring detail) as to what they got up to at the weekends with their partners.

Nobody treats them differently. At least not from what I can see anyway. They don't tell us of them getting grief in their life outside work.
Obviously theyre not footballers.

Maybe, just maybe  if it became knowledge that a Premier league player was gay then shock, horror it wouldn't be as big a deal as several seem to think it would be.

The bold bit is important, there are lots of gay blokes in other environments where today it is not an issue, it used to be not that long ago.

We are talking about the specific situation within football, where homophobic attitudes within dressing rooms and within the wider fanbase is an issue. The point I was reacting to is when you said just answer the question, without any regard to the possible consequences. It's great you don't care, its how it should be, but many do care, and have an issue with it, and that will no go away overnight , and it is wrong to say, if it is not you facing those consequences,  I don't see what the problem is.

Maybe it won't be as bad as is feared, but you don't know that is the case, and it's not your life and career at stake to be making the judgement of just answer the question, I don't see where the problem is.

[Illmatic]

As others have said I think there are very very few gay pro players is the primary reason we haven't seen many publicly state their sexual orientation as such. That so few ex players have come out only strengthens this.

There should be no expectation for players to publicly state they are gay, or surprise that so few gay players have publicly stated so. As ultimately it does not have anything to do with football.   

[Mutton Geoff]

i think this equates slightly to the first black players initially the moronic abuse but now people only care about the colour of the shirt and not the guy inside it, so when we dont get anymore Docs that  need to highlight that there are some gay footballers playing football, then i think we will have this one cracked as well.

[Something Else]

Bang on. Nobody should be defined by their sexuality and counter productively the media/LGBT lobby would do exactly that with the first lad to come out. He would be defined for the rest of his professional career by his sexuality when all everybody wants is equal treatment. To be honest, I imagine many gay footballers wouldn't particularly care for that added scrutiny on their private lives. The same way most straight footballers wouldn't want their wives and kids scrutinised by the media.

exactly and a lot of the people banging the drum for the first gay guy to come out are straight guys. So many see it as an opportunity to then say how ok they are with it.

[ggcc14]

Ive thought about it and still don't see what the issue is.

The fact you think your office job is someway comparable to a premier league footballers line of work makes it difficult to debate with you on this subject.

It's worth remembering footballers aren't just in the PL for life, coming out would mean a move to Italy, Poland, Russia and many more countries would be off the table for them. Once the first guy does it while still playing I do imagine it would open the floodgates but while the cons list far outweights the pros then I can't see it happening for a while.

[Inpeace]

less

Fewer

[HighSix]

Is football really any different to all other major team sports round the world? I am not aware of any players that have been openly gay while playing at the top level apart from the NFL kid in the draft a few years ago & Jason Collins.

[Xabi Gerrard]

Fewer

[Xabi Gerrard]

Is football really any different to all other major team sports round the world? I am not aware of any players that have been openly gay while playing at the top level apart from the NFL kid in the draft a few years ago & Jason Collins.

Gareth Thomas

[HighSix]

Gareth Thomas

Oh yeah. I dont really follow the sport though he did after retirement.

[The Gulleysucker]

When attitudes like this prevail, and in a country that the next World Cup will be held in, is it little wonder that many in football, and also in other sports that are featured and promoted in many of these countries that officially hold similar attitudes, may well be reluctant to come out as openly gay?

[Xabi Gerrard]

Oh yeah. I dont really follow the sport though he did after retirement.

Seems like he was very much winding down his career - his last Welsh appearance was the year before - but still took massive guts to do whilst still playing. I can't remember it too well (barely follow rubgy either) but I think the crowds were really supportive? I suppose rugby crowds and football crowds are quite different though so probably not easy to compare with an openly gay footballer.

[peterstone]

The fact you think your office job is someway comparable to a premier league footballers line of work makes it difficult to debate with you on this subject.

It's worth remembering footballers aren't just in the PL for life, coming out would mean a move to Italy, Poland, Russia and many more countries would be off the table for them. Once the first guy does it while still playing I do imagine it would open the floodgates but while the cons list far outweights the pros then I can't see it happening for a while.

Its not really an office job as such and 20-30 years ago if there had been a gay man in that environment I'm sure there would have been issues. Neither of us can be sure that there would be major issues if someone came out in professional football. Being the bolshie and pretty fearless twat I am if it was me in that situation I wouldn't give a flying one what anyone thought or said but its easy for me to say

[peterstone]

The fact you think your office job is someway comparable to a premier league footballers line of work makes it difficult to debate with you on this subject.

It's worth remembering footballers aren't just in the PL for life, coming out would mean a move to Italy, Poland, Russia and many more countries would be off the table for them. Once the first guy does it while still playing I do imagine it would open the floodgates but while the cons list far outweights the pros then I can't see it happening for a while.

Having been to Russia myself Id say that's a bonus.

[plura]

Well with the amount of homophobia or outright hatred/bigotry still there in public for everyone to see, both on the streets and right there in our media it's no wonder people choose to not go 'public' with it. Probably a bunch more understandable reasons. It's a loss for society and the progression of a modern and civilised society.
I guess it might be a domino thing in a few years time until it day by day turns into a nothing affair when you think of people's sexualities.

[Robinred]

When attitudes like this prevail, and in a country that the next World Cup will be held in, is it little wonder that many in football, and also in other sports that are featured and promoted in many of these countries that officially hold similar attitudes, may well be reluctant to come out as openly gay?

Quite. And Qatar and Russia are far from alone.

It's interesting to consider too, how the historical sexual abuse issues that were in the news recently, were strongly suggestive of a culture within the professional game that has none of the transparency one would hope for.

[Sarge]

If a player is gay, I'd expect that the rest of his teammates are already well aware of it.

Would you think so, I'm not so sure, maybe a Manager/Agent but I just cannot believe that?

[Xabi Gerrard]

The Secret Footballer's two penny's worth

The Secret Footballer: Fans stop gay footballers from coming out

I am not gay. But then I don't feel that I should have to "come out" and say as much. It is nobody's business but my own. The cricketer Steven Davies's recent declaration has triggered a spate of absurd media debates in an all too predictable attempt to uncover why the newspapers, TV, radio and websites have no gay footballer to chew up and spit out.

It is starting to feel as though the fault is with us players for not producing a gay professional on demand. Just to be clear, there is more chance of a player's civil partner saying: "Just get me a card this year" than the Premier League outing its first gay footballer. For a start, look at the media coverage that already surrounds the topic despite not even having anybody specific to hold up as an example – who would want to be at the centre of that?

If we apply the law of averages theory, it is highly likely there are gay players among the professional ranks of football, despite its culture. That said (and with apologies for stereotyping here), anyone watching players arriving at a match for the first time could be forgiven for thinking the game was played exclusively by homosexual men, such is the attention to detail given to hair placement, general attire and a luxury gentleman's wash bag – don't even get me started on some of the things I have seen produced from the latter.

The reality is that I don't "officially" know any gay footballers, although I suspect I have been only a Jäger bomb or two away from a team-mate confiding in me. What we are all agreed on, however, is that there is principally one very good reason that gay players would keep their sexual allegiance firmly in the locker: the fans.

For the most part football supporters give out stick that qualifies as banter. But every now and again an element will cross the line. From abusing players for their skin tone to their nationality, certain fans will grab hold of anything if they can get a cheap laugh and be able to tell their mates down the pub later on what they shouted out.

It takes an awful lot to sicken me on a football pitch, probably because I am desensitised, having heard it all before. In certain sections of some grounds I am so used to hearing discriminatory chants that those people may as well be shouting out their weekly shopping list. There is one man at a London club who shouts the same thing at me from the same seat every season. Now I just smile and he laughs, happy that I have heard him.

Unfortunately, whereas I am now hardened, others are still forming their protective shell. I saw a talented young kid reduced to tears in the changing room because of the abuse he took from a couple of buffoons a few years ago. He never told anyone what was said and nobody ever asked him but, thinking back, I can definitely guess.

So would you come out and then travel around the country playing football in front of tens of thousands of people who hate you? I wouldn't. I would be in the dressing room feeling hugely depressed that certain components to our great game make it all but impossible for me to do anything other than keep quiet. I would also have in mind the gay footballer Justin Fashanu, who tragically took his own life in 1998.

Thankfully football has moved on since those days, or has it? Rewind to Fratton Park, September 2008, when Sol Campbell was subjected to homophobic abuse and a section of Spurs supporters were caught on film singing: "Sol, Sol, wherever you may be, Not long now until lunacy, We won't give a fuck if you are hanging from a tree, You are a Judas c*nt with HIV." Apologies if you didn't like reading those words. But spare a thought for how Campbell felt when he was listening to them.

Sadly, I'd say the general abuse players receive hasn't got much better. It is very rare that there is any appreciation of the opposition's great play, a stunning goal is normally met with a thousand hand gestures from the stands and our best talent is routinely booed with the sort of vigour and hatred that, I feel, offers us a precious insight into society as a whole.
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Amazingly, having said all of that, I'm pretty sure a gay player would have few problems coming out to his team-mates if he were offered a hypothetical, "nobody outside the team will ever find out" clause. It isn't because we're a superior breed – even I wouldn't take on that argument with half the England team conspiring against me. Quite simply, it is because we're all about looking after ourselves and, consequently, we try not to get too involved with other players' trials and tribulations.

The changing room is a very harsh place to survive – say what you like about footballers' lack of intelligence (and people often do), the banter is razor-sharp and anything out of the ordinary is seized upon in a flash. But this is precisely the reason why a gay player would feel comfortable coming out here. A footballer is a footballer, it doesn't matter if you are black, white, straight or gay, players are at ease in this environment, where they are used to piss-taking.

But the terraces are a different ball game. We are not at home here and are very much on our guard around fans. The changing room offers a strange, familiar sanctuary where the preferred etiquette is to have a quick laugh, look as if you know what's going on and get on with things before anybody starts asking uncomfortable questions such as: "Are you gay, mate?"

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2011/mar/12/the-secret-footballer-gay-players

Bare in mind that it's six years old so his views on the fans may be outdated. He's pretty unequivocal though - the dressing room wouldn't be a problem.

[Oscarmac]

I work as a teacher, and it is just great to see the change in attitude in even a decade. Vast majority of kids I teach could not give a fuck, and wonder why we are bothering discuss it. However in the Irish traveller culture suicide rate is 7 times higher than the settled community! Now there are many factors at play in that stat, like 84% unemployment, but the issue of being gay is huge.
In the context of modern football, I think that change is coming. Like the issue of racism has changed, I predict the next decade will see changes for gay players. There will be no doubt many problems, and it will take the FA and clubs support.
When I was a kid few used seat belts, we all do now. I hope we as a football community make a similar change with regard to gay players.

[rob1966]

Well with the amount of homophobia or outright hatred/bigotry still there in public for everyone to see, both on the streets and right there in our media it's no wonder people choose to not go 'public' with it. Probably a bunch more understandable reasons. It's a loss for society and the progression of a modern and civilised society.
I guess it might be a domino thing in a few years time until it day by day turns into a nothing affair when you think of people's sexualities.

Sister in laws kids keep going on about gays and lesbians, my youngest (6) said the other week a gay is someone who sucks dicks. He's got this from his 8 yr old cousin and we know its come from her c*nt of an ex, he's a right bigoted prick from East London West Ham fan. I left what was once a really good motorbike facebook group due the childish digs at non Honda owners, saying they are gay, its like infants school with some c*nts.

Hopefully one day society will all grow up and a persons sexuality won't mean a thing. When I first went on the Kop I well remember the abuse black players got, now that is something consigned to history and this should be the same.

Would you think so, I'm not so sure, maybe a Manager/Agent but I just cannot believe that?

We've a fella in work who is gay, he'd never said to any of the lads he's gay (and why should he, we don't declare we are heterosexual) but just things he said got picked up on, None of us care about his sexuality, my only issue with him is he's a Saints supporter 

I'd think that when you are around someone every day, travelling and stuff, that things would be picked up on and if a player was intentionally hiding it, then it would come out eventually, people always slip up and say something when trying to keep a secret.

[Inpeace]

The Secret Footballer's two penny's worth


Bare in mind that it's six years old so his views on the fans may be outdated. He's pretty unequivocal though - the dressing room wouldn't be a problem.

Why not ex pros who no longer have the terraces to worry about? Not being argumentative but it appears most reasons that apply just to footballers do not apply to ex pros. I agree that no person should have to come out but if it's a choice then it's not a situation caused by issues in football.