Topic: Naby Keita Watch

[G a r y]

So we agree. It is an issue. Thanks for clearing that up.

I'm not using it as a stick to beat him with, all i'm saying is it hasn't helped his integration.

[jackh]

Apparently he's got two years left on his contract?

If so, a loan makes zero sense. What's the point in keeping hold of him if we agree he's not really up to it? It's like the conversation around Wilson and Gruijic that's gone on for years.If they aren't good enough then why bother?

Have there been conversations about Wilson & Grujic that have "gone on" for years?  Sure, discussions have cropped up and I'm sure many of us have hoped (because we back our players, right?) that one or both of them would demonstrate the potential & ability to make it at Liverpool, but I'm not sure you could describe them as having "gone on" as though the points are being laboured.

For what it's worth, Harry Wilson has made 140+ appearances across a series of loan fees (scoring 33 league goals at Championship and Premier League level) - he's likely not got the ability or potential required but (as I understand it) has a contract until 2023 and we'll probably make a decent bit of cash on his sale; Marko Grujic has spent three seasons playing pretty regularly in the Bundesliga and Portuguese Primera League (including appearances in 4 Champions League knockout fixtures this seasons) - I suspect his own ambitions will lead to him moving on this season (there's quality there, but he might not be a stylistic match for us), and there'll be plenty of clubs interested.

From what I can tell, it appears as though the club have supported Wilson & Grujic through a number of reasonably successful loan spells that have & will be beneficial to their host clubs, the players themselves, and Liverpool Football Club.

---

Anyway, back on topic...

[El Lobo]

Bloody Jurgen Klopp the prick and his opinion on the importance of language: https://www.thisisanfield.com/2019/10/naby-keita-much-better-after-big-step-with-language/

Mane: “He just needs to improve his English to be understood more by everyone, but to be able to count on a true friend in the group, that’s priceless. It’s even calming at times.”

It's about fitting in and feeling at home. If you can't see how that may affect a young lad in a foreign country in his everyday life....

See the thing is G a r y, that's not what you said is it? I hope you see the irony in the bolded bit

As with a lot of your criticism of Liverpool players (and lets be fair, you've got a quickly growing repertoire), you say something pretty nasty and then seem to begrudge people calling you out on it. Naby seems to be your target this week. In the match thread, you called him shite and then got a warning from the Mods for calling him shite because its not something you do on RAWK. And you seemed to take umbrage at not being able to call him shite....so just did it again

Here, you didn't say 'its important that he can communicate with his team-mates'. You didn't stress the importance of language. You questioned his mentality in how long it took him to learn English, with absolutely no regard to him as a person or how difficult it can be for some people to learn another language. You know nothing of his education, his upbringing, what sort of environment he was taught in etc. As ever G a r y, you just launch into pretty nasty comments about Liverpool players with very little comprehension of what you're actually criticising.

So we agree. It is an issue. Thanks for clearing that up.

I'm not using it as a stick to beat him with, all i'm saying is it hasn't helped his integration.

No?

In terms of 'mentality' let's not even discuss the amount of time it took the lad to learn English either. That hasn't helped him one little bit

That seems quite stick beaty

[G a r y]

Apologies for not reading the rules, weren't aware you can't say players are shite.

He's had three years to integrate himself, it was still an issue last season. You have to question why. He's a multimillionaire i'm pretty certain he could afford some English lessons since 2017.

[CraigDS]

In terms of 'mentality' let's not even discuss the amount of time it took the lad to learn English either. That hasn't helped him one little bit

A year to learn a language so you can properly converse with someone isn’t bad at all. We’ve plenty of others in the squad who have massively struggled (and still do) for longer than that.

[G a r y]

3*

[El Lobo]

Apologies for not reading the rules, weren't aware you can't say players are shite.

He's had three years to integrate himself, it was still an issue last season. You have to question why. He's a multimillionaire i'm pretty certain he could afford some English lessons since 2017.

[CraigDS]

3*

Look at the date on the article you posted.

[G a r y]

Look at the date on the article you posted.

We agreed to sign him in August 2017, the article was posted in October 2019. Klopp said "it looked like he understood". So yeah, he's into his third year.

I get other players have issues (Firmino) but that hasn't seemed to impact on him as much because of the amount of Brazilian players already in the team and when you see his social media he seems like he has quite the entourage behind him.

[CraigDS]

We agreed to sign him in August 2017, the article was posted in October 2019. Klopp said "it looked like he understood". So yeah, he's into his third year.

Into his 3rd year isn’t really 3 years though, is it?

Also, not sure if you’ve learned another language or not, but it may be simple to learn the basics and then some whilst out the country. But to pick it up conversationally you really need to be surrounded by it. It’s very very different when surrounded by multiple people speaking it with various accents, at different speeds, using slang and other words you’d not learn unless you’re here.

Having a pop that it was a year after he moved to the UK before he could have a conversation in the lingo just seems incredibly harsh.

[MacKon]

We all agree that injuries have made it virtually impossible for Naby to use his full potential. Not his fault, OK. But why would we believe this is all going to stop right now and he's going to remain injury-free for the next two years? It's a belief based on... what? I don't understand. I have no idea. He's an expensive flop, even if it's not about lack of skills or attitude. Can we afford paying his wages for another year and then letting him go for a lowered price? Or even seeing him do the same thing as Emre Can did, except Keita would play less games in his final year (because of injuries, of course)?

[JasonF]

We all agree that injuries have made it virtually impossible for Naby to use his full potential. Not his fault, OK. But why would we believe this is all going to stop right now and he's going to remain injury-free for the next two years? It's a belief based on... what? I don't understand. I have no idea. He's an expensive flop, even if it's not about lack of skills or attitude. Can we afford paying his wages for another year and then letting him go for a lowered price? Or even seeing him do the same thing as Emre Can did, except Keita would play less games in his final year (because of injuries, of course)?

What's the alternative? Release him on a free now? Sell him while his stock is low? What would we even get for him in the current market? Who are we replacing him with for the low fee he'd bring in?

I can't recall Klopp giving up on a player due to injuries. Matip and Oxlade-Chamberlain have arguably been worse in terms of injury record.

He might not have an injury free period, but we don't know that for sure yet. He was relatively injury free at Leipzig. He got a bad injury vs Barcelona and then he was rushed back by Guinea and exasperated the issue. Since then he's had a few recurring injuries in that same region (hip, adductor, thigh, hamstring), Klopp admitted he'd been rushed back out of necessity, and since then he had a decent break, a chance to fully recover (like he's said we'll do for Matip now) and he's not been injured again since. He's not been picked much either, but he's been available (and impressing in training according to Klopp).

I recall Gerrard having some niggling injuries in his early days, and Henderson had that chronic plantar fasciitis issue for a while. Maybe we should have shipped those two out on cut price deals when we had the chance too.

[Knight]

The problem with most of these posts is they make the error of claiming Keita hasn’t been good for us when he’s played. But he has been. At times he’s been very good. He wasn’t good against Madrid but frankly that’s on Klopp. He should have been giving him minutes way more often pre throwing him in against Madrid. Also, literally every other Liverpool player was also stinking the place out

[Pistolero]

He wasn’t good against Madrid but frankly that’s on Klopp. He should have been giving him minutes way more often pre throwing him in against Madrid.

what utter arsewater....

[G a r y]

The problem with most of these posts is they make the error of claiming Keita hasn’t been good for us when he’s played. But he has been. At times he’s been very good. He wasn’t good against Madrid but frankly that’s on Klopp. He should have been giving him minutes way more often pre throwing him in against Madrid. Also, literally every other Liverpool player was also stinking the place out

Is that you Naby lad?

[Knight]

what utter arsewater....

It really isn’t ‘utter arsewater’ to suggest Klopp may have got his team selection and/or tactics wrong last week. Given how bad we were for most of the game I suspect lots and lots of things went wrong, including some of klopp’s decisions. Or we could just scapegoat a player who’s barely played for us recently and who was no worse than anyone else on the pitch.

Most of the posts in here recently claim he’s been an utter flop. If that’s true Klopp definitely got it wrong in starting him last week! No point starting a player who’s been rubbish for us every chance he’s been given after all.

[jackh]

The problem with most of these posts is they make the error of claiming Keita hasn’t been good for us when he’s played. But he has been. At times he’s been very good. He wasn’t good against Madrid but frankly that’s on Klopp. He should have been giving him minutes way more often pre throwing him in against Madrid. Also, literally every other Liverpool player was also stinking the place out

Here's hoping he can show his qualities if he gets some pitch-time this evening.  I keep forgetting the 5 subs things - he could be particularly valuable if Madrid's midfielders are looking a bit leggy from the hour-mark onwards.  Would prefer to see him inside left rather than drifting to the right-hand side like we saw last week though (plus I think we'll want a little bit of protection for Trent & Phillips against the threat of Vinicius on that side, as he's their outlet).

[G a r y]

I recall Gerrard having some niggling injuries in his early days, and Henderson had that chronic plantar fasciitis issue for a while. Maybe we should have shipped those two out on cut price deals when we had the chance too.

Christ.

Maybe you have a bit of cloudy memory but Henderson came in to the team and pretty much played every game, his injury problems came about in the middle of his Liverpool career - even then he was playing more than Naby ever has done.

Gerrard was a young kid, at the age of 20 he was in the Liverpool team playing 40+ games a season, every season.

I'm not suggesting we'd sell him or not, i'm not really bothered either way. I just don't understand the hype that goes on around him. There's about 5 players in front of him that i'd rather see given the game time.

[JasonF]

I'm not suggesting we'd sell him or not, i'm not really bothered either way. I just don't understand the hype that goes on around him. There's about 5 players in front of him that i'd rather see given the game time.

What hype? This thread since the first leg (and whenever he's injured) has for the most part been an echo chamber of people declaring him shite and saying we should sell him.

It might sound crazy, but perhaps there's some middle ground between him being the best midfielder in the world and being not fit to lace Salif Diao's boots.

[jackh]

Christ.

Maybe you have a bit of cloudy memory but Henderson came in to the team and pretty much played every game, his injury problems came about in the middle of his Liverpool career - even then he was playing more than Naby ever has done.

Gerrard was a young kid, at the age of 20 he was in the Liverpool team playing 40+ games a season, every season.

I'm not suggesting we'd sell him or not, i'm not really bothered either way. I just don't understand the hype that goes on around him. There's about 5 players in front of him that i'd rather see given the game time.

You're resorting to digs at other posters now (we all love one every once in a while in fairness), Gary, and your "not really bothered anyway" doesn't seem to stand up with the 25-or-so hours you've been dipping in & out of this thread to re-assert your thoughts on Naby Keita.

It's a match-day...

[G a r y]

You're resorting to digs at other posters now (we all love one every once in a while in fairness), Gary, and your "not really bothered anyway" doesn't seem to stand up with the 25-or-so hours you've been dipping in & out of this thread to re-assert your thoughts on Naby Keita.

It's a match-day...

Nothing else to talk about...yet

What hype? This thread since the first leg (and whenever he's injured) has for the most part been an echo chamber of people declaring him shite and saying we should sell him.

It might sound crazy, but perhaps there's some middle ground between him being the best midfielder in the world and being not fit to lace Salif Diao's boots.

I haven't read any of the other 250 pages so i'm glad to hear i'm not the only one

[jackh]

Nothing else to talk about...yet

Not long now - first trip back 'to the pub' for me   Indeed, first time not watching the match on my own since December.

[G a r y]

Not long now - first trip back 'to the pub' for me   Indeed, first time not watching the match on my own since December.

Get me back the match so I don't have to vent and chat shit here ha ha

[number 168]

Apologies for not reading the rules, weren't aware you can't say players are shite.

He's had three years to integrate himself, it was still an issue last season. You have to question why. He's a multimillionaire i'm pretty certain he could afford some English lessons since 2017.

I assume you are a polyglot? Learning a language can be difficult and at times deflating. I learnt Italian some years ago to a faily good standard, however I found Spanish really difficult despite both languages having the same latin root. I would say after a few years I am probably decent tourist standard Spanish whereas I was mistaken for Italian when over there. Naby is probably like me with Spanish , not lazy just finds it difficult.

[johnj147]

Think he will be binned by klopp..

[CalgarianRed]

I think so too, saw some rumor that Keita, Ox, Shaquiri and Origi will all be allowed to leave in the summer. He has been the biggest disappointment as the expectations were very high.

[spider-neil]

I think Keita gets sold in the summer. The manager clearly doesn't trust him. Was given precious few minutes since returning from his injury. Flung in in the most important match of the season. Hasn't been seen since. I feel sorry for the player but if the manager doesn't want to play him there is little point in him being here. Get as much money for him and move on.

[OOS]

Think he will be binned by klopp..

Same. Gini is probably going, and for all his faults he's never injured. He can cover a few roles in midfield, got the physique to be a bit on enforcer and got the technical skills to bring the ball out and recycle possession. We will either need to look in-house to replace what Gini brings to the team, or look outside. Could argue that frees up two spots in the midfield, not to mention Milner who is 36 next year! Think we will see a new midfielder or two, finances permitting.

Who? Fuck knows.

[Pistolero]

The Madrid game was Keita's, Lovren at Spurs...Sakho at Watford moment...
on all three occasions you could see, and practically hear what Klopp was thinking on the touchline...very much a case of thus far and no further...

[Illmatic]

Seems a bit unfair for him to get so much blame for the defeat away to RM I mean it was his first game back in awhile and others were equally as bad.

[killer-heels]

The Madrid game was Keita's, Lovren at Spurs...Sakho at Watford moment...
on all three occasions you could see, and practically hear what Klopp was thinking on the touchline...very much a case of thus far and no further...

Lovren wasnt bombed out after Spurs.

[ScubaSteve]

Think he will be binned by klopp..

He’s a massive talent...seen some great moments from him but I agree. Klopp will sell him on now whilst he has some value

[El Lobo]

The Madrid game was Keita's, Lovren at Spurs...Sakho at Watford moment...
on all three occasions you could see, and practically hear what Klopp was thinking on the touchline...very much a case of thus far and no further...

...he must have played another 60 odd games after that, as well as being first choice for the rest of that season? Or are we talking a different Spurs game? 

[spider-neil]

Seems a bit unfair for him to get so much blame for the defeat away to RM I mean it was his first game back in awhile and others were equally as bad.

He has carried the can for that game. The player has truly been thrown under the bus when being rusty was (IMHO) understandable.

[Oskar]

I really doubt he’ll be going anywhere.

We wouldn’t get anything reflective of his level of ability and Michael Edwards is not going to sell a player like Keita for a low fee just to get him off the books. Wijnaldum looks certain to be off, I think there’s a chance Oxlade-Chamberlain could go, possibly on loan, but I’m not expecting anyone else in the midfield to be moved on.

[number 168]

I really doubt he’ll be going anywhere.

We wouldn’t get anything reflective of his level of ability and Michael Edwards is not going to sell a player like Keita for a low fee just to get him off the books. Wijnaldum looks certain to be off, I think there’s a chance Oxlade-Chamberlain could go, possibly on loan, but I’m not expecting anyone else in the midfield to be moved on.

Yes agree with all that but what about Naby himself? He might decide that he wants to play regularly (injuries notwithstanding) and look for a move? He is at a point in his career when he can’t just sit on the bench hoping for the odd sub appearance.

[mickeydocs]

A year to learn a language so you can properly converse with someone isn’t bad at all. We’ve plenty of others in the squad who have massively struggled (and still do) for longer than that.

A year to learn a language is terrible when you have access to the best language tuition and tutors and have lots of free time, not to mention a welcoming environment in which to practice.

[El Lobo]

A year to learn a language is terrible when you have access to the best language tuition and tutors and have lots of free time, not to mention a welcoming environment in which to practice.

Maybe it’s different for certain people? Different backgrounds? Different education and upbringing? It seems to be a very British thing to criticise people for struggling to learn English. Same with Bobby, you know nothing of their past so to start slating them for not learning English easily seems pretty OTT

[MonsLibpool]

I really doubt he’ll be going anywhere.

We wouldn’t get anything reflective of his level of ability and Michael Edwards is not going to sell a player like Keita for a low fee just to get him off the books. Wijnaldum looks certain to be off, I think there’s a chance Oxlade-Chamberlain could go, possibly on loan, but I’m not expecting anyone else in the midfield to be moved on.

For every ten games, he spends 6 on the treatment table, 3 out-of form and has a 1 very good game(usually against "smaller" clubs).

To be honest, he's a flop and we should get rid as he's had enough opportunities.

[Oskar]

For every ten games, he spends 6 on the treatment table, 3 out-of form and has a 1 very good game(usually against "smaller" clubs).

To be honest, he's a flop and we should get rid as he's had enough opportunities.

I don’t think we should, or that we will.

But we’ll see what Klopp and Edwards do in the summer.