Author Topic: Sunderland  (Read 178191 times)

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Sunderland
« on: August 21, 2015, 12:46:42 pm »
They've had a bad start (as per usual), but they look particularly vulnerable to being relegated this season.

Their December and February fixtures look particularly brutal

December: Arsenal (A), Watford (H), Chelsea (A), Man City (A), Liverpool (H)

February: Man City (H), Liverpool (A), Man Utd (H), West Ham (A)

Even their run-in, isn't particularly kind, as their last four games are Arsenal (H), Stoke (A), Chelsea (H), Watford (A)

Last season, they drew far too many games (17 in all, including nine 0-0), but they only lost one of their opening seven fixtures, albeit it took them seven games to get their first win, with the rest being draws). The prior season, it took them nine games (October 27) before they recorded their first win. In 2012/13, it took them until mid-November, until they recorded a second victory. In 2011/12, they only won two of their first fourteen games. In fact, the last time Sunderland recorded more than two wins within their first eight games was in 2009/10, when they won five of their first nine games.

They seem to tick all the boxes of the type of established, yet dysfunctional PL club who ends up being relegated (i.e. West Ham and Newcastle of past seasons). They've had the managerial merry-go-round. In the past five years, they've had seven different managers: Steve Bruce, Eric Black (caretaker), Martin O'Neill, Paolo di Canio, Kevin Ball (caretaker), Gus Poyet, Dick Advocaat. The age gap in their squad seems to be pretty large. Of the 23 players in their first-team with squad numbers, fifteen will be 28+ by the end of this season. And even those that are younger like Coates, Rodwell and Van Aanholt, tend to be in their mid-twenties, but have yet to have a sustained impact that might have been expected of them. The Secret Footballer has noted on more than one occasion that it is an open secret within the game that Sunderland has a drinking culture. I'd also wonder to what effect the ongoing Adam Johnson case has had on the team.

Most of the best players who have come through their youth system in recent years (Colback, Henderson etc) have moved on to other clubs. I also cannot think of any other club in the league of their ilk that seems to spend significant sums of money on average players, or opts to buy loads of players and hope some of it will stick. It happened under Keane, Bruce and Di Canio, all with similar results. I know some will argue that Sunderland will find it harder to attract quality players, but surely the likes of Swansea must be in a similar position, even though they spend far less money on signings. They have a net spend greater than Everton, Tottenham, Swansea, Stoke and Southampton over the past five years. They have also with the exception of a season of DiCanio/Fanti largely bought from British markets and concentrated on buying younger players from within Britain, rather than from overseas. For example, they paid £8m rising to £12m for Connor Wickham, but ended up selling him to Palace for £7m rising to £9m. He''ll turn 23 at the end of March and still has time on his side to develop, albeit he probably will never be an elite player that some expected.

Swiss Ramble noted that in 2013/14, Sunderland were one of the few PL clubs to actually post a loss (£12m) that season and they were the only loss making club, whose financial performance worsened. Their player amortization for that year was also one of the highest in the league, only topped by Chelsea, the two Manchester clubs, us and Arsenal. Their wages to turnover that year was also the second highest in the league.

If Sunderland do go down this season, it won't be due to poor luck, but years of instability and crass waste. A team of their size and ambition should probably look to the model of Southampton or Swansea and try to develop players, while adding a few well-scouted players who fit their model. That said unlike Southampton or Swansea, Sunderland haven't shown the patience to implement such an approach. Maybe if they do get relegated, it might cause a massive rethink.

Offline MagicHat

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2015, 12:53:36 pm »
Entirly possibly Sunderland do their yearly rally but at some point, they will go down.

Their something rotten in the state of Sunderland. Off the pitch they are supposed to be well run but it is on the pitch matters that their owner has struggled with. He has tried all sorts of managers from experienced to rising stars and it all goes the same way, an initial boost for survival then long term collapse. Dof's come and go with bad records at the club, they buy some intresting players but it never happens for them and they buy a lot of dross. Meanwhile each manager seems to come across something really bad in the dressing room, this is not a squad that has a good mentality on the pitch (they seem to collapse once they concede first goal nowadays) and off it.

Nobody has yet removed the trouble within the squad and without that, they have no chance of stability.


Offline BeautifulGame91

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2015, 05:06:26 am »
Quote
Dick Advocaat tells Sunderland players they are all for sale

• Sunderland manager says club is already facing relegation fight 
• Advocaat says Jermain Defoe will not play as centre-forward


After saying every senior  Sunderland  player is available for sale Dick Advocaat declined invitations to confirm he intends to see out his one-year contract.

“I don’t want to discuss that now,” he said. “It’s not an issue, we’re concentrating on the Swansea game.” Even so, it is clear he is not exactly thrilled with a side tthat have conceded seven goals in two games. “Every player is for sale,” said a man already braced for a relegation battle. “If the player wants to go then he can go.”


He hopes any departures would fund new arrivals. ”I have definitely said to our owner [Ellis Short] we needed five or six new players,” he said. “He says we have four or five [already]. But I said we need quality players. You always get what you pay for. But I have to be fair to the owner; he never mentioned a figure to me.

“We can compete to stay in the league, but no more. Financially, at the moment we can’t compete with other clubs.” Asked if Sunderland faced a relegation fight, he said: “Yes, the problem is that all the other teams are spending fortunes, and we cannot.”

Sunderland’s manager also made it plain Jermain Defoe will not be offered a central attacking role: “Jermain Defoe will play on the left or the right side – or on the bench. Nobody can tell me where he has to play. I decide which player plays where, not players


Bizarre press conference yesterday. Basically says every player is up for sale
Players they have signed this window aren't quality despite him signing them .
And won't play Defoe as striker despite the alternative being the useless Fletcher and Graham .

Looks to me he is preparing to walk away once the window closes .

Sunderland are an absolute with zero long term planning.Always signing loan players to save them for a season and wasting shite load on past it players .
They were incredibly lucky to to be safe last two seasons can't see them scrapping to survival once more .
.

Offline bird_lfc

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2015, 06:03:46 am »
strange that, especially regarding Defoe who is there only genuine goal threat. graham and fletcher probably have about 5 goals between them in the past 2 seasons.

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2015, 07:17:57 am »
It does seem a club with no strategic vision - what are they trying to do to sustain success? It always seems reactive, putting fires out, crisis management. That can only ever lead to eventual failure. It's the same reason Newcastle are not thriving - there is no plan.

Interestingly, I think we fell into this trap last year. Strategically we were a nonsense, we had no identity, transfers were incongruent with our supposed direction and our playing style was not easy to define. The changes over the summer and the transfer activity indicates a strategy is back in place.

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2015, 11:56:54 am »
Entirly possibly Sunderland do their yearly rally but at some point, they will go down.

Their something rotten in the state of Sunderland. Off the pitch they are supposed to be well run but it is on the pitch matters that their owner has struggled with. He has tried all sorts of managers from experienced to rising stars and it all goes the same way, an initial boost for survival then long term collapse. Dof's come and go with bad records at the club, they buy some intresting players but it never happens for them and they buy a lot of dross. Meanwhile each manager seems to come across something really bad in the dressing room, this is not a squad that has a good mentality on the pitch (they seem to collapse once they concede first goal nowadays) and off it.

Nobody has yet removed the trouble within the squad and without that, they have no chance of stability.



Completely agree with this. No matter who seems to manage them, they end up with the same problems after a few months. Most other clubs would have targeted the problem players and moved them out. Sunderland don't seem to do so, even if it may mean going backwards in the table in order to go forwards.

Offline DangerScouse

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2015, 01:27:15 pm »
They've now banned Michael Gray from the club apparently over comments he made about Short

Offline Flaccido Dongingo

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2015, 01:28:50 pm »
They're a mess, they'd be better off hiring someone like Big Sam now, and getting his type of shithouse player in to focus on survival, whatever you say about him, he can make a team difficult to beat, can Big Sam.

Offline RivaGe

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2015, 01:29:03 pm »
They were fools to keep Advocaat.

Offline sinnermichael

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2015, 01:48:45 pm »
They have the 8th highest wage bill in the Premier League.

Offline Drinks Sangria

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2015, 01:53:15 pm »
They have the 8th highest wage bill in the Premier League.
That's an absolute joke. Got a strange dislike for Sunderland, I'd like to see them and Villa relegated.
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Offline Clayton Bigsby

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2015, 02:41:31 pm »
Big Sam to the rescue. They have 10 days so they should just do it now

Offline BlackandWhitePaul

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2015, 06:08:08 pm »
That's an absolute joke. Got a strange dislike for Sunderland, I'd like to see them and Villa relegated.
There must be Geordie blood in you mate   :P

Offline BlackandWhitePaul

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2015, 11:09:49 pm »
Dick Advocaat has only went and put every single Player up for sale after their pathetic start to the season.

http://www.itv.com/news/2015-08-21/sunderland-boss-advocaat-puts-entire-squad-up-for-sale-after-poor-start-to-season/

 :thumbup

:wellin

:lmao :lmao :lmao

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2015, 11:43:51 pm »
 ;D
I watched a YouTube video and decided that Paul Konchesky looked like a player.
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Offline Ray K

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2015, 01:44:00 pm »
I assume you're all getting your CVs polished up to be Jermain Defoe's PA:

JERMAIN DEFOE & FAMILY/ DEFOE ENTERPRISE PERSONAL ASSISTANT

We are looking for a highly experienced Executive Personal Assistant who will be working closely with senior manager of Defoe Enterprise Ltd.

You will be working for a high profile individual within the sports industry so the candidate must therefore, by nature, be very flexible, hands-on and be capable of multitasking, most importantly you must maintain the highest level of confidentiality in order to assist the manager.

On a day to day basis you will be involved in scheduling and highly organizing the managers and the families private, social and business calendars, arranging all public appearances, arranging and securing travel arrangements, working on selected business projects and maintaining daily itineraries.

Must be able to supervise a multi-portfolio of houses managing all household staff and contractors, dealing with all incoming bills and more.

Candidates who will be considered for an interview will:

Have the highest level of office duties including managing emails and dealing with all incoming telephone enquires
Marketing knowledge and business development
Demonstrate a high level of social media experience
Have ability and experience in executive summaries of documents and debriefing to senior management
Meet deadlines and demands of the managers extensive and hectic work schedules
Demonstrating a high level of discretion and confidentiality
Have impeccable correspondence skills and be confident in communicating with high profile individuals and senior directors
Flexible to travel abroad and across country throughout the year at a short notice
Suit a small office environment
Media experience and commercial pr will be of advantage
RESPONSIBILITIES

Diary management for Sandra and Jermain
Data management and administration duties 
Dealing with incoming email, faxes and post
Drafting emails on director/managers behalf
Answering Calls and handling enquiries
Create database of all business contacts
Produce daily/Weekly briefs via email
Writing minutes and taking dictations
Prepare Presentations
Arrange travelling and accommodation for Jermain
Working on certain projects and carrying out research
Liaison with sponsors i.e. adidas etc.
Briefing directors/managers before meetings and appearances
Travelling with Jermain/ Sandra on business meetings UK (international when required)
Occasional travel alone for business meetings setting up business opportunities for Jermain.
Organising manager on a daily basis:  lunch etc.
Working alongside Chonte Marketing director on specific projects

ERRANDS

Organise all Jermain’s personal needs i.e. drycleaners, gardeners, house refurbishments, Sourcing interior designers and everyday tasks etc.
Regularly checking the home when Jermain is away, making sure all is in place for his return i.e. fridge is stocked and plants watered and house is clean.
Select and organise wardrobe with specific designers for special events/appearances i.e. Oswald boateng, Harrods, ZAP etc
PROPERTIES

Organising all the Defoe family’s households and needs
Organising Cleaners and food shopping when necessary
Overseeing Gardeners
Domestic Cleaners
Security
SOCIAL EVENTS

Book all social events i.e.
Theatre, Concerts, Cinema, Musicals
Restaurant bookings and recommendations
Spa Days
Family outings
FAMILY

Planning Yearly events including family birthdays and other celebrations
Organising yearly family holidays and individual holidays.
Managing and organising individual family members (Sandra, Andre, Chonte and Chase. Family pets)
Dealing with the domestic running of all Defoe family properties including international.
Creating an inventory for holiday Villas.
Help to plan and organising special yearly calendar events i.e. (Mother’s day, Fathers Day, Easter, Black history month, Bonfire Night, Christmas, New years etc.)
 

 

BRANDING

To create a global brand for the Jermain Defoe name
Growing his online database on his website, Twitter, Facebook and other social networking platforms.
Gaining further recognition within the media
Producing his own iphone apps
Identify source of sponsorship opportunities
POTENTIAL PROJECTS

Growing The Jermain Defoe foundation charity i.e. yearly fundraising and events
Create his own clothing line/Fragrance for e-commerce on his website
Starting up his own Sports Mentoring and Management company
Football Grass roots soccer academy
JOB ROLE

WORKING FROM THE JERMAIN DEFOE OFFICE MONDAY – FRIDAY 9.30am-5.30pm

There will be out of hours and weekend work depending on manager’s event diary or projects.

Must be on call 24/7


I think I've got the ideal candidate:

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2015, 02:10:35 pm »

I think I've got the ideal candidate:



:D Can just see Jermaine driving around Sunderland in a Mini Metro.

What's the salary on offer? Actually don't answer, I think I know:

Tell you what, tell you what
It's nine and a half thousand pounds

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2015, 02:16:01 pm »
Been a oddly run club the last 3-4 years.

Rich owner worth nearly 3 billion pounds and he's stingy as scrooge.

If there is any time to splash the cash and overhaul your squad for the mid to low league EPl sides then this is the season with the big TV money hike next season,but they're still shopping in the bargain basement.
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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2015, 02:33:37 pm »
Been a oddly run club the last 3-4 years.

Rich owner worth nearly 3 billion pounds and he's stingy as scrooge.

If there is any time to splash the cash and overhaul your squad for the mid to low league EPl sides then this is the season with the big TV money hike next season,but they're still shopping in the bargain basement.

They actually spend a fair bit don't they? Just that they have such a turnover of managers they're always spending to correct previous mistakes yet always tend to repeat them. They're as bad at buying United rejects as Everton.

Offline Aceldama

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2015, 02:48:10 pm »
Rich owner worth nearly 3 billion pounds and he's stingy as scrooge.

He's not stingy, the money has just been spent badly.

8th highest wage bill and the 3rd biggest pre tax losses in the league in 2013-14.

Offline sinnermichael

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2015, 02:51:28 pm »
What happened to that Giacherinni guy?

Offline Grobbelrevell

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2015, 02:53:40 pm »
What happened to that Giacherinni guy?

Still there, just not even making the bench and currently being linked with a move back to Italy.
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Offline Cpt_Reina

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2015, 03:43:19 pm »
They must be the worst run club in the division, I know they've managed to beat the drop the past few years but when you take in to account the money they spend on wages (eight highest in the league is it?) and the sizeable fee's they've paid in recent history they should be well above the standing they currently are.

The just seems to be absolutely no forward planning there.

Why would you convince Advocaat to stay on when you know he wants to retire? He's saved your bacon, thank him and then get a younger man in with something to prove. Someone who might try and plan further ahead than the next 6 months. He won't be there come xmas time, its almost certain, so why not just fucking pre-empt it for once and avoid the whole sorry charade?

The Defoe signing sums up Sunderland for me, yes he scored a few goals last season and even two so far this, but he's 32 and earning £70,000 a week. Its crazy. Especially when you see the business the likes of Stoke/Newcastle/Swansea even Villa are doing this year.

Clearly a whole new market is opening up to these sort of clubs now, they're able to convince the likes of Payet/Ayew/Mitrovic/Shaqiri to join. Why aren't Sunderland with their clear resources trying to be a bit smarter in how they use them?

They've got such a penchant for signing absolute dross. £24m spent this summer and its hard to see where. There might not be too many expensive flops, but fuck me if that club doesn't like spending 6-8m on a shit tonne of horrible players.

If they go down we might not see them for a very long time.

Offline BlackandWhitePaul

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2015, 03:59:17 pm »
They must be the worst run club in the division, I know they've managed to beat the drop the past few years but when you take in to account the money they spend on wages (eight highest in the league is it?) and the sizeable fee's they've paid in recent history they should be well above the standing they currently are.

The just seems to be absolutely no forward planning there.

Why would you convince Advocaat to stay on when you know he wants to retire? He's saved your bacon, thank him and then get a younger man in with something to prove. Someone who might try and plan further ahead than the next 6 months. He won't be there come xmas time, its almost certain, so why not just fucking pre-empt it for once and avoid the whole sorry charade?

The Defoe signing sums up Sunderland for me, yes he scored a few goals last season and even two so far this, but he's 32 and earning £70,000 a week. Its crazy. Especially when you see the business the likes of Stoke/Newcastle/Swansea even Villa are doing this year.

Clearly a whole new market is opening up to these sort of clubs now, they're able to convince the likes of Payet/Ayew/Mitrovic/Shaqiri to join. Why aren't Sunderland with their clear resources trying to be a bit smarter in how they use them?

They've got such a penchant for signing absolute dross. £24m spent this summer and its hard to see where. There might not be too many expensive flops, but fuck me if that club doesn't like spending 6-8m on a shit tonne of horrible players.

If they go down we might not see them for a very long time.
But that's the best part.

Offline Aceldama

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2015, 04:24:24 pm »
The Defoe signing sums up Sunderland for me, yes he scored a few goals last season and even two so far this, but he's 32 and earning £70,000 a week. Its crazy. Especially when you see the business the likes of Stoke/Newcastle/Swansea even Villa are doing this year.

Despite still being a bad signing Defore was probably their best signing in years. If they hadn't done the Altidore - now that was an awful signing - Defoe swap they would have gone down last season.

I think they'll come to regret letting Wickham go on the cheap. Really short sighted when they're currently starting a 30 year old Danny Graham up top. The only proper run of games through the middle he had for them is when he scored 5 goals to help them avoid relegation in the last few games of 13-14.

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2015, 05:22:34 pm »
Cpt Reina's post is spot-on. The Danny Graham signing sums them up well. Bought by O'Neill for £5m. O'Neill was then shortly after sacked and Graham's bounced around the Championship ever since. That window they had when Fanti was DoF might be one of the worst any PL club has ever had since they were instituted; yet at the time I remember someone posting that they were doing great business by bringing loads in for cheap fees to be flipped, when they were buying loads of shite. It's all down to that club's inability to have any long-term strategy, unlike Swansea. As for Defoe, the international branding bit is hilarious given how he left Toronto. I still laugh at a columnist (think it was the Mail or Telegraph) who proclaimed Defoe's move to Sunderland as the greatest January signing EVER.

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2015, 11:30:06 am »
Advocaat's press conference was revealing. Basically slammed the club for paying crazy money for "less than average" players. About time somebody in charge there was brutally honest.

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2015, 12:14:08 pm »
Who the hell would want to download an app about jermain Defoe???

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2015, 12:17:09 pm »
Who the hell would want to download an app about jermain Defoe???

I have always maintained an extreme dislike of Jermain Defoe and this advert has cemented my hatred for the little blingy c*nt.

I remember him getting done by the police for having his car windows so tinted he could barely see the road. Proper arsehole modern footballer.
get thee to the library before the c*nts close it down

we are a bunch of twats commenting on a website.

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2015, 03:22:35 pm »
Signed Ola Toivonen on a loan today. A player who had a lot of talent alongside Swedens under 21s in 2009 but has since then failed to deliver, should be interesting to see how he does.

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2015, 03:30:39 pm »
Signed Ola Toivonen on a loan today. A player who had a lot of talent alongside Swedens under 21s in 2009 but has since then failed to deliver, should be interesting to see how he does.

I'm pretty sure we were linked with him back when Kenny was in charge. Could be wrong like. That said, you'd be hard pressed to find a player who we haven't been linked with at some point!

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2015, 03:31:10 pm »
I still laugh at a columnist (think it was the Mail or Telegraph) who proclaimed Defoe's move to Sunderland as the greatest January signing EVER.


Offline Garlicbread

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2015, 03:32:33 pm »
I'm pretty sure we were linked with him back when Kenny was in charge. Could be wrong like. That said, you'd be hard pressed to find a player who we haven't been linked with at some point!

When Hodgson was in charge actually. He(Toivonen) said a couple of years ago that his biggest regret was not to push for the move more, apparently the Liverpool intrest was real. But he was too loyal to PSV.

Offline Titi Camara

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2015, 03:36:07 pm »
He's not stingy, the money has just been spent badly.

8th highest wage bill and the 3rd biggest pre tax losses in the league in 2013-14.
Where's the Sunderland money Bill?

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2015, 05:01:45 pm »
Advocaat probably wishing he would have retired in the summer. Terrible start for them, especially when you consider most of the games they've played so far have been against clubs (i.e. Norwich, Bournemouth) you'd expect them to be battling with to stay away from relegation come May.

Offline Lush is the best medicine...

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #35 on: September 19, 2015, 05:13:07 pm »
Advocaat probably wishing he would have retired in the summer. Terrible start for them, especially when you consider most of the games they've played so far have been against clubs (i.e. Norwich, Bournemouth) you'd expect them to be battling with to stay away from relegation come May.
rate they're going they'll be long gone by may

Offline Michel

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2015, 05:19:17 pm »
Advocaat probably wishing he would have retired in the summer. Terrible start for them, especially when you consider most of the games they've played so far have been against clubs (i.e. Norwich, Bournemouth) you'd expect them to be battling with to stay away from relegation come May.

He will retire in a few days.

Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #37 on: September 19, 2015, 05:23:40 pm »
rate they're going they'll be long gone by may

Definitely. Mid-April at the current rate.

He will retire in a few days.

Their next five fixtures: Man Utd (A); West Ham (H); West Brom (A); Newcastle (H); Everton (A). They need to pick-up a lot of points in that stretch, because they'll be lucky to get more than 3-4 points out of December (Arsenal (A), Watford (H), Chelsea (A), Man City (A), Liverpool (H))

Offline Chavasse1917

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2015, 12:12:39 pm »

Went to watch them yesterday, courtesy of a Client who had a few tickets and a sunny day out in Bournemouth seemed a good idea.

Sunderland were shocking. They were completely overrun by Bournemouth's enthusiasm in the first half an hour.  Of the defence, Jones, Coates and Kaboul looked like frightened rabbits anytime Callum Wilson ran at them, three accidents waiting to happen.  M'Villa was a total disappointment and Toivanen a signing that I am glad we never made. Lens on the right and Borini were the only ones who gave a toss.

Bournemouth ran out of steam otherwise the Mackems would have been humiliated.

Someone said mid April they'd be down. I'd give them until March.
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Offline rafathegaffa83

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Re: Sunderland
« Reply #39 on: October 2, 2015, 11:05:22 pm »
Advocaat is considering quitting according to The Telegraph