Topic: PL: West Ham 3 vs 2 Liverpool Fornals 5’, 67’, Trent 41 Zouma 75’ Origi 83’

[Judge Red]

Might just be me but where’s this Gini is the massive reason our midfield doesn’t look as strong? I’m sure loads on here when he did play for us questioned what the fuck he did. It’s like he’s gods gift now he’s not here. I liked him as it happens and didn’t want him to go but let’s not make out he’s the sole reason we are looking a little disjointed.

[CalgarianRed]

We were outplayed ?

This is getting bizarre now. We had 70% possession, had 16 shots to their 7, had 5 shots on target to their 3 had a higher xG . How on earth can that be described as being well beaten.

They looked dangerous every time they attacked. Possession ain't everything when we let in easy goals.

[telekon]

That Cresswell tackle. Definite red. 100%. The still picture looks very bad for him, but  he didn't go into do Hendo. The angle that he hit the ball bounced him up and when that happens your control is gone. In that split second he would have shat himself for fear or seeing red and potentially doing a lot of damage. Thankfully Henderson was ok because it could of been a season ender. Dangerous tackles dont always have to be intentional. How it wasn't even a yellow, or a foul ?  is bemusing tp say the least
Anyway, first defeat in a while was hard to take. Tough games coming we need to get a grip of this slack defending quickly

Clear red card. Video ref too spineless to call it for a view, and on the pitch ref clueless.

Mate of mine said Ali should've gotten a foul on their first, but I don't agree. He got tangled with his arms, but better positioning and decision making would have averted the goal.

Bad result but they played well. Shit happens. On to the next one.

[Hazell]

We need to enjoy this time rather than be angst ridden at every perceived minor flaw. I know there's a school of thought that we need to the advantage when things are so good. My school of thought is that we need to enjoy the ride whilst it's so good. There's going to be fans of this club who don't. Who are too concerned about signings, apparent lack of spend etc. to truly appreciate that this is one of the best teams in modern Liverpool history. It probably won't be like this for ever so enjoy it and trust the manager and players to get it right in the meantime

The same things get said over and over every time we drop points but I just wanted to say that this is the position I find myself in currently. Nice one mate

[Dave McCoy]

They looked dangerous every time they attacked. Possession ain't everything when we let in easy goals.

I think this is where people are getting hung up in the discussion.  Did we deserve to lose?  In the context of what the ref considered fouls then you'd have to say yes.  Did we play badly or get outplayed?  Well we lost but play that game again 9 more times and how many times do we lose?  2 of them?  3?  Probably draw or win the majority at minimum. 

Otherwise if the bar is they looked "dangerous" well you could say that about a majority of games we play as that's just what happens when your opponents main attacks are in transition yet most people would say we didn't get outplayed just because the other team looked dangerous.

[BobPaisley3]

Just watched the game again. We created some excellent situations down the left only for Robbo to consistently cut the ball back to an area around the edge of the box where no one was attacking it. Our players either went in towards the penalty spot or hung too for out. Second half we started to revert a little bit to the high hit and hope cross which brought us the square root of fuck all in terms of success last season. The stupid floaty one that no one has a chance of making anything of. We lost patience. I think if we’d persevered a bit more with working those wide areas like we’d done in the first half, we might have created slightly more presentable chances.

[Jookie]

Klopp's quotes, re-signing for the club and continually going into seasons with a reduced chance of winning because of recruitment problems must be looked at against the backdrop of what kind of character he is.

He has an abnormally positive outlook on life, he is incredibly loyal, and above all he simply loves fighting against the odds. Quite frankly I think it is absurd to use that positivity against him. To somehow try and justify indefensible decisions like not bringing in a centre back until the end of January last season because Klopp doesn't complain too vocally is ridiculous.

Are you really trying to somehow suggest that it is okay to continually ask Klopp to fight with one hand behind his back, is okay because he doesn't whine like Mourinho would.

No I’m suggesting he doesn’t view the situation as you’ve portrayed it. genuinely think that Klopp thinks he’s managing a Top 5 squad and club that has genuine ambitions to win PL and CL. Whilst I think he likes the challenge and likes managing a certain type of club, I think what you suggest is a disservice to him and his obvious desire to win. He is t managing something akin to Kidderminster Harriers as you are suggesting.

Not in the mood for you twisting of words Al so don’t bother responding to the above.

[Jookie]

It isn't about having 40 players though it is the massive drop off between the first 11 and the squad players.

Tell me what you consider the 1st XI and then the massive drop off to the rest of the squad (starting with position 12 in the squad)?

It would be good if you can respond to this message because I’m genuinely interested in your thoughts on this.

[Nico CARP]

It's a bit disappointing that every time the pointers drop points along the way or when we have been able to escape from the rest, we have never done so. And I don't understand why this happens ... Does the team suffer pressure under favorable circumstances?

[rushyman]

It's a bit disappointing that every time the pointers drop points along the way or when we have been able to escape from the rest, we have never done so. And I don't understand why this happens ... Does the team suffer pressure under favorable circumstances?

I think they’ve proved that’s not the case

[Black Bull Nova]

Funny, is it not, when we finish the end of the longest unbeaten run in the club's history, mostly winning the games and including some memorable victories and performances, qualify for the CL last 16 with 2 games to spare, are in the LC QFs and are just off the pace in the PL table, that people choose this moment to come on here and pick faults. Presumably the same faults were there when we played United and Atletico, people were quiet then.

We suck it up, learn and move on.

West Ham are a decent team and will give quite a few teams a headache this season (oh, and they knocked City out of their favourite cup competition as well)

[BobPaisley3]

Tell me what you consider the 1st XI and then the massive drop off to the rest of the squad (starting with position 12 in the squad)?

It would be good if you can respond to this message because I’m genuinely interested in your thoughts on this.

The significant drop offs are:
GK- Always the way in any squad unless you have a Cech/Cudicini combo. Kelleher is decent but Alisson is top 3 in the world.
RB- Similar to above. We have the best right back in the world, any drop off is significant although there are arguments to suggest we could improve here.
Midfield- It’s been done to death, we have three elite central midfielders and a mixed bag of relatively untested youth, experience and injury prone to supplement them. Only Keita has shown that he’s potentially at a level similar to the top 3.
Forward- Four excellent options with 2 lads who are considerably behind. In an ideal world we’d have a more reliable fifth option but in terms of game time, Div and Minamino don’t seem too pissed off at their lot.

I’d say that only really 4 or 5 of the current match day squads can have question marks against them:
Williams
Ox
Div
Minamino

The other 18 or so are fine.

[End Product]

Shite, maybe he IS a football genuis.

[keyop]

Indeed, but I think the issue is more complex in that. For one, based on Klopp's past comments, I very much doubt Klopp wants 8 midfielders. I think we have stumbled into an imperfect situation which is not probably ideal for either Klopp or the club, and especially not the financial situation.

This sums it up perfectly for me. We're in this situation by accident, not by design. We added Fabinho, Keita and Ox at significant cost, and probably expected that to be our 1st choice midfield to eventually replace players like Hendo and Gini. Only one of those 3 has worked out as planned (far better than planned), but that doesn't mean the intent or the spending weren't there. Keita had all the makings of a perfect midfielder under Klopp, and Ox looked ready to revive his career with the clear talent he had, despite the injuries.

Klopp can't just hand out P45's and get new players in. There are contracts and financial obligations to all of our squad, and we can't sell unwanted players if there's no buyers.

People complaining about not replacing Gini forget that we bought Thiago a season earlier when arguably we were already well stocked. Alhough he's no spring chicken, there's no doubt Klopp planned for him to get him involved quickly and become a regular. His injury was unlucky and unforseen, and certaintly not FSG's fault.

Milner has been an incredible servant, and steps up when needed, even if he can't play as many games these days. Henderson looks tired but remains a great leader and driving force. Jones showed plenty of promise over the last 2 years and has age on his side. Elliot looked like he was going to make a big impact before that horrible injury.

So that's 8 players for 3 positions, and whilst some are injury prone, I'd argue only Ox was like that regularly before he joined. We also have Firmino or Minamino who can drop deep when needed,  although not as midfielders in the purest sense.

So it's been a mixture of bad luck, timing, injuries, or poor form - certainly not all down to the owners, lack of spending, or losing Wijnaldum (although Gini was a firm favourite of mine in his time here).

Too many people are trying to find someone to blame when sometimes you just need to accept that we are where we are. Two seasons ago many people were moaning we had no cover for the front 3, or for the defence, and that we needed an extra body in midfield. The club went out and bought Jota, Thiago and Konate in two summers. The fact that they didn't solve every problem is more down to unforseen injuries or form in other players - not a lack of planning or spending.

[Black Bull Nova]

The same people who wished we'd spent £40-60m on a new midfielder (and their wages) presumably would want us to stomp up the money for Salah's contract from what would remain.

[keyop]

This is it though, you'll pick and choose when you think he's telling the truth and when you think he's just lying to keep his players happy.

That's a well used tactic on here. Take something the manager has literally said in public, and claim he thinks differently in private, and that he's doing it for PR or to not upset the owners or players. It's bullshit.

[keyop]

This absolutely true, and I also understand that the posters that emerge to berate others for not believing are being fans in their own way, subsuming their own angst within a more robust and aggressive posture, deflecting their own concerns by attacking those they percieve as threatening their own firmly held beliefs that all will be well as long as they remain optimistic and faithful. That is their coping mechanism, smite the non-believer before they spread doubt and undermine the whole system. Doesn't mean I have to like it though.

What are you on about 

The coping mechanism is simply being an adult, having some context and perspective, and not seeing a minor setback as a disaster.

[JRed]

Fair enough mate

I occasionally still wake up in a cold sweat because of the Blackpool home game under Hodgson! At least under Hodgson, most of the fans were united in thinking he wasn't good enough. I actually think 2008-2010 was harder as a fan. Match going was hard because a proportion of the fans hated Rafa and discussion online on occasions was similar.

Like I said, to your tongue in cheek message, is that is doesn't take long for things to turn ugly. That's my concern with current Liverpool. That people stop believing in the people and the process that got us to 2 CL finals and 2 95+ point seasons. Not everything is perfect at the moment but we're are easily a Top 5 squad in World football with a Top 3 manager at the helm.

We need to enjoy this time rather than be angst ridden at every perceived minor flaw. I know there's a school of thought that we need to the advantage when things are so good. My school of thought is that we need to enjoy the ride whilst it's so good. There's going to be fans of this club who don't. Who are too concerned about signings, apparent lack of spend etc. to truly appreciate that this is one of the best teams in modern Liverpool history. It probably won't be like this for ever so enjoy it and trust the manager and players to get it right in the meantime

Fair point. We also have to factor in that this Liverpool team, unlike any other of our great teams of the past, are having to compete with cheating, state owned clubs. If it was a level playing field we would be by far the best team in the country.

[killer-heels]

Fair enough mate

I occasionally still wake up in a cold sweat because of the Blackpool home game under Hodgson! At least under Hodgson, most of the fans were united in thinking he wasn't good enough. I actually think 2008-2010 was harder as a fan. Match going was hard because a proportion of the fans hated Rafa and discussion online on occasions was similar.

Like I said, to your tongue in cheek message, is that is doesn't take long for things to turn ugly. That's my concern with current Liverpool. That people stop believing in the people and the process that got us to 2 CL finals and 2 95+ point seasons. Not everything is perfect at the moment but we're are easily a Top 5 squad in World football with a Top 3 manager at the helm.

We need to enjoy this time rather than be angst ridden at every perceived minor flaw. I know there's a school of thought that we need to the advantage when things are so good. My school of thought is that we need to enjoy the ride whilst it's so good. There's going to be fans of this club who don't. Who are too concerned about signings, apparent lack of spend etc. to truly appreciate that this is one of the best teams in modern Liverpool history. It probably won't be like this for ever so enjoy it and trust the manager and players to get it right in the meantime

I very much doubt things are going to turn ugly. If we are out of the title race by December then maybe some apathy and disinterest will creep in but in the wider sphere and match going fans (dont count the Twitter fan, they don't matter) its very unlikely that people will start having discussions about the manager or anything drastic like that.

I think there will be live discussions about maybe this team being at the end of the road and the need for the owners to invest in the summer but barring a mad situation where we lose 6 at home in a row like last season, I very much doubt anyone has anything to worry about.

[Fitzy.]

It wasn't a falsehood though was it?
5 of the 8 have been here for at least 3 years which in football terms  is ages.
Only Thiago has arrived in the last 18 months.
So, yeah, they have been here ages

Firstly, if 3 years is 'ages' then being at a club for 'ages' is not a bad thing based on your definition of the word.

Secondly, having players at a club for 3+ seasons is - in the main - a positive. One of Klopp's obvious ambitions was to build a squad that wasn't in flux or transition; where players remain for several seasons to establish a strong sense of togetherness and cohesion. It's been designed that way. However, the balance of new talent being added - Thiago, Jones, Elliott - keeps things fresh. It's not just Thiago who is new.

Your analysis of this is really odd.

[killer-heels]

This sums it up perfectly for me. We're in this situation by accident, not by design. We added Fabinho, Keita and Ox at significant cost, and probably expected that to be our 1st choice midfield to eventually replace players like Hendo and Gini. Only one of those 3 has worked out as planned (far better than planned), but that doesn't mean the intent or the spending weren't there. Keita had all the makings of a perfect midfielder under Klopp, and Ox looked ready to revive his career with the clear talent he had, despite the injuries.

Klopp can't just hand out P45's and get new players in. There are contracts and financial obligations to all of our squad, and we can't sell unwanted players if there's no buyers.

People complaining about not replacing Gini forget that we bought Thiago a season earlier when arguably we were already well stocked. Alhough he's no spring chicken, there's no doubt Klopp planned for him to get him involved quickly and become a regular. His injury was unlucky and unforseen, and certaintly not FSG's fault.

Milner has been an incredible servant, and steps up when needed, even if he can't play as many games these days. Henderson looks tired but remains a great leader and driving force. Jones showed plenty of promise over the last 2 years and has age on his side. Elliot looked like he was going to make a big impact before that horrible injury.

So that's 8 players for 3 positions, and whilst some are injury prone, I'd argue only Ox was like that regularly before he joined. We also have Firmino or Minamino who can drop deep when needed,  although not as midfielders in the purest sense.

So it's been a mixture of bad luck, timing, injuries, or poor form - certainly not all down to the owners, lack of spending, or losing Wijnaldum (although Gini was a firm favourite of mine in his time here).

Too many people are trying to find someone to blame when sometimes you just need to accept that we are where we are. Two seasons ago many people were moaning we had no cover for the front 3, or for the defence, and that we needed an extra body in midfield. The club went out and bought Jota, Thiago and Konate in two summers. The fact that they didn't solve every problem is more down to unforseen injuries or form in other players - not a lack of planning or spending.

I wonder if in hindsight we will be questioning whether Thiago was the right choice. I wanted him, the manager clearly wanted him but sometimes things don't work out. We are not there with Thiago but we do need his injury situation to clear up. I say that in the context of already having the likes of Milner and Henderson, both on good money and both older with injury issues.

We have definitely accidentally stumbled into our midfield situation so I have sympathy there both for the coaching and analysts who probably saw Keita on the same level as Van Dijk and Alisson and for the money men and women who would be rightly asking why we have such an expensive bunch of imperfect midfielders. What is clear though is we are going to have to address it at some point and we may need to make some hard decisions next summer. There needs to be a clearing of the decks before we bring anymore midfielders in.

[spider-neil]

I wonder if in hindsight we will be questioning whether Thiago was the right choice. I wanted him, the manager clearly wanted him but sometimes things don't work out. We are not there with Thiago but we do need his injury situation to clear up. I say that in the context of already having the likes of Milner and Henderson, both on good money and both older with injury issues.

We have definitely accidentally stumbled into our midfield situation so I have sympathy there both for the coaching and analysts who probably saw Keita on the same level as Van Dijk and Alisson and for the money men and women who would be rightly asking why we have such an expensive bunch of imperfect midfielders. What is clear though is we are going to have to address it at some point and we may need to make some hard decisions next summer. There needs to be a clearing of the decks before we bring anymore midfielders in.

Personally, I think you can see Keita's ability when he strings a run together but that doesn't happen often enough. When he plays we score more and concede less he just has no luck with injuries.

[Mighty_Red]

I wonder if in hindsight we will be questioning whether Thiago was the right choice. I wanted him, the manager clearly wanted him but sometimes things don't work out. We are not there with Thiago but we do need his injury situation to clear up. I say that in the context of already having the likes of Milner and Henderson, both on good money and both older with injury issues.

I guess you can say that in the case of any top signing that doesn't quite work out. Both Thiago and Keita were elite level signings, thought Thiago has proven this over many years whereas Naby is still at the potential stage.

The other issue with Thiago is that he has been unable to play the no6 role, or at least has struggled to do so. He has looked wonderful alongside Fab (when fully fit). Hopefully the intl break will give him the chance to get fully fit and ready for the next block of games.

I initially thought he would be able to fill in that no6 role when playing the ultra-low block sides which would enable us to get more attacking midfielders into the side but I guess his tackling isn't good enough for that.

I think this all means we need to get another no 6 in as we are actually more reliant on Fab than we first thought and covering his position puts too much stress on the rest of the CMs and the balance of the midfield. Maybe Morton could be that guy, but he is still developing.

[keyop]

Might just be me but where’s this Gini is the massive reason our midfield doesn’t look as strong? I’m sure loads on here when he did play for us questioned what the fuck he did. It’s like he’s gods gift now he’s not here. I liked him as it happens and didn’t want him to go but let’s not make out he’s the sole reason we are looking a little disjointed.

It's a RAWK phenomenon known as 'Any player that we let go or we should have signed would have won that game today'

Gini would not only have protected Alisson for their first goal, but he'd have taken out their player for the second, or run beyond Alisson to make a goal line clearance. Gini being Gini, he'd have also been covering Trent at the back post for a clearing header, and then scored a winner.

[Coolie High]

The same people who wished we'd spent £40-60m on a new midfielder (and their wages) presumably would want us to stomp up the money for Salah's contract from what would remain.

We seem to be the only club that constantly bandies this narrative about, it’s bizarre if buying a Bissouma for 40 m in the summer and ‘reasonable’ wages  stops us from improving the wages of the best player in the world who has been traditionally underpaid in comparison to his peers, then we’re in big problems.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Might just be me but where’s this Gini is the massive reason our midfield doesn’t look as strong? I’m sure loads on here when he did play for us questioned what the fuck he did. It’s like he’s gods gift now he’s not here. I liked him as it happens and didn’t want him to go but let’s not make out he’s the sole reason we are looking a little disjointed.

He did a lot of the water carrying, and did it very well so its natural he becomes more appreciated when hes not there

I thought he was missed more against Brighton than Sunday, our ,MF shape had terrible gaps and they passed through us

[El Lobo]

We seem to be the only club that constantly bandies this narrative about, it’s bizarre if buying a Bissouma for 40 m in the summer and ‘reasonable’ wages  stops us from improving the wages of the best player in the world who has been traditionally underpaid in comparison to his peers, then we’re in big problems.

Yep.

There weren't any other big, successful clubs struggling with paying huge wages in the summer

Your problem of course, as ever Coolie, is that you compare our activity with the clubs we're in direct competition with. Which unfortunately are two plastic, sports washing regimes and a financial monster in United. If you actually compare us to similar clubs (Bayern, Juve, even Real and Barca) then many of them are in a similar boat.

[Coolie High]

Yep.

There weren't any other big, successful clubs struggling with paying huge wages in the summer

Your problem of course, as ever Coolie, is that you compare our activity with the clubs we're in direct competition with. Which unfortunately are two plastic, sports washing regimes and a financial monster in United. If you actually compare us to similar clubs (Bayern, Juve, even Real and Barca) then many of them are in a similar boat.

Not really mate even in comparison to the normal-ish clubs we don’t spend big in the transfer window, i mean compare our net spend to the rest of the league were in and we won’t even be in the top 5. We’re incredibly well run I just don’t buy that we can’t afford to spend 40m on a midfielder and also put the wages of our best players up, especially when because due to the genius of Klopp and back room staff we have managed to win it all at a fraction of cost compared to what our rivals spend.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Yep.

There weren't any other big, successful clubs struggling with paying huge wages in the summer

Your problem of course, as ever Coolie, is that you compare our activity with the clubs we're in direct competition with. Which unfortunately are two plastic, sports washing regimes and a financial monster in United. If you actually compare us to similar clubs (Bayern, Juve, even Real and Barca) then many of them are in a similar boat.

Absolutely ridiculous comparing us to those clubs as well given the difference in TV revenues. Spanish football is in the mud; English football very much isn't.

[Fitzy.]

Not really mate even in comparison to the normal-ish clubs we don’t spend big in the transfer window, i mean compare our net spend to the rest of the league were in and we won’t even be in the top 5. We’re incredibly well run I just don’t buy that we can’t afford to spend 40m on a midfielder and also put the wages of our best players up, especially when because due to the genius of Klopp and back room staff we have managed to win it all at a fraction of cost compared to what our rivals spend.

Liverpool have the 5th biggest wage bill in the world - that's designed to keep a brilliant squad together and not lose talent to other big fish - as happened in previous seasons. The pay off for this is that transfer activity is compromised to some degree as the emphasis is on player retention rather than new players.

[Magix]

The FSG discussion is going around in circles at this juncture - we know how they operate and their spending levels. Signings aren't likely to be made in January, because we'd probably need to offload in order to buy. Whatever changes made will be tactical and found within the existing squad.

[El Lobo]

Not really mate even in comparison to the normal-ish clubs we don’t spend big in the transfer window, i mean compare our net spend to the rest of the league were in and we won’t even be in the top 5. We’re incredibly well run I just don’t buy that we can’t afford to spend 40m on a midfielder and also put the wages of our best players up, especially when because due to the genius of Klopp and back room staff we have managed to win it all at a fraction of cost compared to what our rivals spend.

Right, but this is the whole crux isn't it? Do you genuinely not see how lazy that is? Its what 12 year olds moan about on twitter.

We're a self sufficient football club. That means everything. Transfers, wages, infrastructure, ground improvements, training ground etc etc etc. I think the largest profit in a year we've ever made is £42 million, and its more common for us to make a loss. It also means that everything is at that elite level, including wages. I'd suggest its a lot easier for teams like Aston Villa and Everton to look amazing on the old net spend table when they don't need to pay big wages to good players, they dont improve their ground, they don't need to worry about trivialities like bonuses for winning trophies, like paying agents to extend their clients contracts.

If you're incapable of looking at anything other than 'net spend' then you just can't expect to have any sort of reasoned conversation around our transfer activity.

As for why we didn't sign a CM, my guess is that it genuinely did have more to do with what we already had rather than not being able to afford one. Its been done to death, but we have 8 first team CMs. Considering Milner, Naby and Oxs contract status (Millie up in the summer, Naby and Ox likely to be into their final 12 months) my guess would be that we have our eyes on someone long term, like we did with Konate, and we felt we could comfortably get through the season and also use it as a bit of a 'last chance saloon' with Naby and Ox.

[El Lobo]

Absolutely ridiculous comparing us to those clubs as well given the difference in TV revenues. Spanish football is in the mud; English football very much isn't.

But perfectly sensible to compare us to sports washers like Man City, Chelsea and PSG

[Koplass]

Might just be me but where’s this Gini is the massive reason our midfield doesn’t look as strong? I’m sure loads on here when he did play for us questioned what the fuck he did. It’s like he’s gods gift now he’s not here. I liked him as it happens and didn’t want him to go but let’s not make out he’s the sole reason we are looking a little disjointed.

That says more about their football knowledge than it says about Gini.

I think the point isn't really about Gini though, it's about being short in midfield and having players who aren't as tactically strong as him. It seems strange that we've left ourselves in a position where someone like Chamberlain is getting lots of minutes this season. Last year he was fit for months but Klopp didn't want to play him and Gini was always preferred and now we've let Gini go and decided that Chamberlain is an adequate replacement.

This isn't a dig at him specifically, just a bit of bemusement about our transfer policy. We're clearly weak in midfield but did nothing to address it in the summer - maybe it's a decision to change the system and style so maybe it will even itself out over the course of the season but currently it's looking like it will cost us.   

[Sharado]

As for why we didn't sign a CM, my guess is that it genuinely did have more to do with what we already had rather than not being able to afford one. Its been done to death, but we have 8 first team CMs. Considering Milner, Naby and Oxs contract status (Millie up in the summer, Naby and Ox likely to be into their final 12 months) my guess would be that we have our eyes on someone long term, like we did with Konate, and we felt we could comfortably get through the season and also use it as a bit of a 'last chance saloon' with Naby and Ox.

You're probably right about this, I think also the pandemic affected transfer window did a fair bit of damage to our business model. So getting someone in when we couldn't shift some of these lads wasn't possible.

But all that's about to change...step forward Edward Howe!

[keyop]

I wonder if in hindsight we will be questioning whether Thiago was the right choice. I wanted him, the manager clearly wanted him but sometimes things don't work out. We are not there with Thiago but we do need his injury situation to clear up. I say that in the context of already having the likes of Milner and Henderson, both on good money and both older with injury issues.

We have definitely accidentally stumbled into our midfield situation so I have sympathy there both for the coaching and analysts who probably saw Keita on the same level as Van Dijk and Alisson and for the money men and women who would be rightly asking why we have such an expensive bunch of imperfect midfielders. What is clear though is we are going to have to address it at some point and we may need to make some hard decisions next summer. There needs to be a clearing of the decks before we bring anymore midfielders in.

Yes - that's the difficult tightrope a manager needs to tread - he's tried really hard with Keita and Ox and been unlucky with their availability and form, which has also hampered his ability to rotate and rest Fabinho, Henderson and Thiago when needed. Everything is interconnected, and not as simple as some people think.

It's frustrating when some fans repeatedly complain about the situation as if it was all avoidable, when the intention was clearly to have a blend of different ages and skill sets, and especially when we've spent around £150m on Fabinho, Keita, Ox and Thiago, yet some still claim FSG have been tight.

Not all signings are as durable and consistent as a Salah, Wijnaldum or Robertson, and no doubt the planning is already underway for what our midfield will look like in 2-3 years time when Henderson, Thiago and Milner will be closer to retirement.

[nico 8]

The FSG discussion is going around in circles at this juncture - we know how they operate and their spending levels. Signings aren't likely to be made in January, because we'd probably need to offload in order to buy. Whatever changes made will be tactical and found within the existing squad.

Didn't Lijnders allude to this in mentioning that the club was looking outside for a solution during the CB crisis, using midfielders as a stop gap solution and yet the answer lay within, namely Nathan Phillips and Rhys Williams. There is no doubt the model is to wait for the right player when he becomes available ( not necessarily limited to first choice).

[Mister Flip Flop]

The FSG discussion is going around in circles at this juncture - we know how they operate and their spending levels. Signings aren't likely to be made in January, because we'd probably need to offload in order to buy. Whatever changes made will be tactical and found within the existing squad.

Some fans still can't grasp this unfortunately. I think if Salah is sold it will hit home with many that FSG aren't changing their model for anyone. Frankly what Klopp has achieved with the net spend of the club is bonkers.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Didn't Lijnders allude to this in mentioning that the club was looking outside for a solution during the CB crisis, using midfielders as a stop gap solution and yet the answer lay within, namely Nathan Phillips and Rhys Williams. There is no doubt the model is to wait for the right player when he becomes available ( not necessarily limited to first choice).

Have you got any links or details on this mate

I do think its an occasion when Klopp felt let down

[El Lobo]

Some fans still can't grasp this unfortunately. I think if Salah is sold it will hit home with many that FSG aren't changing their model for anyone. Frankly what Klopp has achieved with the net spend of the club is bonkers.

So if Salah isn't sold, that means they've changed their model?