Author Topic: #SHANKLY100 Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?  (Read 32282 times)

Offline Socratease

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#SHANKLY100 Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« on: December 22, 2006, 01:05:19 am »
When I was a youngster in the 60's a certain film was on the cinema circuit, all of them have gone now, the 'Classic' and the 'ABC' chains of cinemas. In 1962  'The 300 Spartans',  directed by
Rudolph Maté, was released and - Wow! I was fascinated by ancient Greece! NB, the word 'ancient' is almost unique in breaking the rules of grammar, 'i' before 'e' except after 'c'.  ;)

My point is that I was brought up in supporting Liverpool FC, every time I crossed the Mersey from Woodside on the ferry, because of my questions (thanks grand dad!) and eventual learning, my mother told me the story about the Phoenix and it's rising from the ashes. As a youngster getting off the ferry at the Pier Head, I saw the magnificent Liver Building with the Cormorants on top of the two towers - one faced the sea, and the other faced inwards to the city of Liverpool.  The thing is that everyone were weariing Red & White. I was just a youngster, in Liverpool to buy new school shoes with my mum, it was like a street party, in this case a city party, as they swung around those big wooden noise makers and sung with joy! One big burly fella passed as we approached the city centre after James Street station and took off his Red & White rosette and pinned it on my coat!

I was a happy lad!  ;D  I still drove me mum crazy! ;)

The continuation of my point is the impact of that film, the 'The 300 Spartans', it caused me to study, as it did Shanks.

That is a big claim, I am predisposed to suppose that this is the case - but it is'nt really, if you think about it.

I am giving a parallel. Though I believe it to be pertinent, and with confidence I can say this is a parable.



Those first Red men in history are not a myth, they lived and died!


Shankly was inspirational,

"He gave me a lot of confidence. He made any player feel like a great player. If you feel like one, then you'll play like one. Even when we lost, the boss would prove that it was all a mistake - the winning goal was offside, one of our blokes was fouled - that sort of thing.

Another thing is that there were no non-triers in a Shankly team. He wouldn't tolerate any lax attitudes - no matter who you were. We didn't have any stars really - everyone was treated the same."

Ron Yeats.


I'll summize the story briefly about the Spartans from the year of 480 BC from Herodotus with some paragraphs. Keep in mind that the Spartans were systematicallly trained for battle from 7 years of age, the other Greeks were not - nor were the Persians.

Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?


The First Red Men
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Roll on the 25th of May!



In ten days we defend our right to be European Champions once again with the aim of bringing the Trophy back to Liverpool for good. Trophy comes from the Latin Tropaeum which comes from the Greek Tropaion. It was a token of the enemies' rout of shields,helmets,etc., that were hung on trees or upright posts to mark a victory in battle.

After the battle of Marathon (490 BC) it was a huge battle in which the Greeks defended Europe against the eastern Persian Empire led by Darius. The number of the enemy casualties was large compared to the Greek hoplites and cavalry, so much so that the armour of the fallen enemy set up as a Tropaion became a huge mound!

The rout was that extensive, as the Persians were chased and cornered and only a few made their escape back to Ionia (now the western coast of Turkey) and Persia (Iraq and Iran). The mound of the Trophy of Marathon is still there to this day! The Persian King Darius made it back to Ionia (decades later it became Greek once again).

Within a few years Darius died and his successor, Xerxes (X is pronounced as Z) had his senior Court Official to say to him each and every day 'Don't forget the Greeks' for years, before Xerxes himself was ready to take revenge upon the impudent Greeks. Over time, from Persia and subjugate states, he amassed an army of close to a million men. In 480BC he crossed the Hellespont (Greek bridge- a thin strip of land that joins Asia to Europe with a narrow water way that allows access to the Black Sea, where Istanbul now is) intent on revenge.

This was to be the final face-off between Europe and Asia. It was that a momentous period in history. The man that wrote down the first accounts was Herodotus (the Father of history) and you can read for yourself an easy to read prose of his writings from Penguin books.

As this mass of humanity traversed into northern Greece ( an estimamate of the craftsman,engineers,cooks, supplies, women and families,artisans,slaves,armourers,logistics and building supplies,along with all the animals is 500,000 - not including the Persian fleet which sailed close by near to the coastline) it was said that they devoured the countryside and drank the rivers dry.

The whole of Greece watched in terror and a lot of the northern city states sent envoys to King Xerxes with salt and bread - a gesture of friendship and compliance for fear of annihilation. Themistocles, the leading statesman and general in Athens, attended the City State meetings around, what is now collectively Greece, and saw a lack of resolve and dis-unity.

With this in mind he decided to travel to Delphi and the renowned Oracle, making sure everybody knew where he was going, to consult the prophetess of Apollo. Under the influence of the mysterious odours that arose from a fracture in the rock (tea?Heh,heh!) she made many utterances that were written in verse by the priests of Apollo.

Themistocles was able to travel to Corinth at the meeting of the city states and declare that a message from the gods had been delivered to the Greek people (the Hellenes) about the dire situation. He revealed that the survival of Greece depended on the wooden walls of Athens. This puzzled a lot of the representitives as they all knew that the walls of Athens were stone. Themistocles explained that the wooden walls were the navy! It was the large Athenian navy that would be the factor in saving Greece.

The King of the Spartans (they had two in case one was killed in battle) Leonidas could see where wily Themistocles was coming from and more time was needed to bolster the fleet. He advocated that all Greek ships be put under the command of Themistocles. This genuine redoutable response was uplifting and Themisocles offered control of the land forces to Leonidas and the Spartans, the most feared and remorseless professional fighting army known in the Ancient World.

This boosted everybody and Leonidas returned to Sparta with the good news. He met with the Elders only to find that a religious festival was coming up and there was no way he was going to be able to lead a substantial army for many, many days. Leonidas could not let this block his obligations and announced that he and his personal troop of 300 hundred men would proceed ahead and the rest could follow after the religous festival.

It was a heck of a long march ahead but Leonidas and the 300 Spartans marched relentlessly at battle pace in the hot searing Greek sun of summer with outstanding discipline. It soon spread that the Spartans were on the march north (even though there were only 300 troops) and the various city states that they passed through treated them as heroes! It wasn't long before other contingents from other Cities joined and followed behind, trying to keep up with the men in the Red battledress!

During this great march Leonidas had been in communication with Themistocles and it was confirmed to keep to the plan to create a holding action at Thermopylae (hot gates - a natural spring of hot water was there next to a very old defensive wall with gates) which was a natural bottleneck (mountains,stretch of land then sea) while the fleet held a similar defencive stance not too far away off the coast. Until reinforcements arrived.

The men in Red battledress arrived at Thermopylae (therm-op-o- lie phonetic) and rested while everyone else tried to catch up, as Leonidas and his officers surveyed the lay of the land.

The Persians were coming, and scouts were sent forward to gather intelligence.

The scouts, though in Red, remained unseen as they crept out of the water in the fading light (in full armour) as they approached from the beach upto the embankment and observed a massive city of tents and structures and hundreds of people partying! The Red men just looked at each other in disbelief, and watched as the torches for the night were lit by the Persians. As this happened they began to see the scale of the encampment. It was enormous! This truly was an invasion on a massive scale!

A point to remember is that the Spartans wore Red to be striking and to camouflage bleeding flesh wounds whilst fighting on tenaciously to win the battle. The first Red men in history!

Just like mad Scousers looking for trouble they thought of doing a hit and run on the encampment. They could see a very important looking shiny tent in the now darkness and went for it! They caused chaos and confusion, as who would dare to attack? Yes, the Red men! They ploughed through the half shocked defenders and fought their way to their goal and ransacked it! Xerxes wasn't there unfortunately, but they burnt his flimsy house down and escaped into the dark water with their Trophies!

This surreptitious attack was not reported to Xerxes until the early morning due to the confusion and shock. It was the first he knew of any upcoming opposition, who were these warriors in Red? A Court advizer informed Xerxes that a Greek knew who they were, and Xerxes demanded he be brought into his presence.

Enter Damaratos. An ex-Spartan king who had been deposed through intrigue at Sparta! To Xerxes he was just a Greek whom he asked to drink wine and have food as guest to talk with. He asked Damaratos who these Red men were. Damaratos told him that they were his counrtymen, the Spartans. Xerxes rebuked him immediately saying that they were cowards that struck in the dark and frightened poor camp followers. Damaratos stated that his Majesties' grand tent must have been the goal of the troops!

This unnerved and angered Xerxes and he called in his champion Persian warrior, who was dressed in full battle armour, and challenged the Spartan to defeat a true Persian warrior. Damaratos, dressed in only a himation light cloth, stated that he was without armour or sword, surely the Persian would win! Xerxes signalled one of his bodyguard to give him his sword. Damaratos knew this was serious, and stood up and took the sword.

Entertainment for the King was about to be begin. His champion would show supremacy over these uncultured Greeks! Xerxes issued the command to his champion to kill him, kill the Greek Spartan! The champion lunged forward and Damaratos dodged and scythed his opponents wicker shield in two. Silence. The champion knew he must not lose face in front of the Great King and went hell for leather for Damaratos! Every strike was parried or avoided by his nimble opponent who did not strike back against his defensive armour. The champion removed the bulk of his armour to achieve agility against his evasive foe and directly scored a hit on his upper right arm. Damaratos chucked the sword from his right hand to his left without flinching. The champion, emboldend lunged forward for the kill, Damaratos ducked and slipped behind and drove his sword downwards into the back between the shoulder blades of the champion - and stepped back to watch the champion collapse.

Xerxes went off it! He threw his golden goblet of best wine to the floor! Take that useless wretch away was all he could say of the champion. He told Damaratos to have his wound to be seen to by his personal physicians. As Damaratos was leaving he shouted to him that he had ruined a perfectly good meal!

King Xerxes awoke in the early morning having had very troubling dreams. He ordered his staff to bring in a map of the area ahead, and summoned his breakfast and drink. The map duly arrived and he spread it out upon the table when his breakfast arrived with his drink and it was placed upon the table on top of the map. He swiped it all onto the floor off the map as he studied the lack of detail. He summoned his generals and admiral, and demanded another table for a fresh breakfast. Xerxes wanted to know what was ahead on the land and what was the progress of the fleet.

It wasn't long before the Persian scouts were away on horseback.

The Persian scouts were observed upon their approach and under orders they were allowed to pass through. One in particular, who had dismounted from his horse, tip - toed upto the Thermopylae defences to spy on the tricky Red men and watched as they quietly combed their long hair and annointed it with oils! Astonished, the scout tip - toed back to his horse to report back to Xerxes and his generals. Upon receiving the news Xerxes proclaimed -don't these men know that they are about to die? Xerxes mobilizes his army and orders the deployment to the entrance of Thermopylae, the Hot Gates.

Along with the Spartans at Thermopylae were several contingents of troops from other cities which totalled the Greek force to 5,000. Leonidas was fully aware that the Reds and the rest of the Greeks where vastly outnumbered. Even though he was on home soil he was in a situation that was peculiar, as if he was on an away expedition beyond the Hellespont of Greece - yet he was facing the Persian Empire in all it's might, right here in Greece itself.

One of the scouts from his force came back down from the mountains and informed Leonidas of a little used goat track that, if not guarded, could be used by the enemy to outflank the defenders. Leonidas immediately ordered a troop of a few hundred men from the army to block and defend the track just in case. Only the local goat herders knew of it.

Leonidas was well aware that the Persian fleet could not outflank him with marines further down the coast as long as the Greek triremes (which were like sea-going tanks with a protruding bronzed ram at the bow, biremes were a little smaller with two banks of oars instead of the three but more nimble in the water) would keep the Persian navy guessing the risks. He knew Themistocles knew his stuff. Leonidas checked the reinforced walls of Thermopylae (Thermopulai-Gk) from the side of the mountain to the sea (250 metres - now a couple of kilometres today) and waited with his men at ease. The north end of the pass was choked with the men and horses of the enemy.

It was quite deceiving for the Persians as once through they could spread but had to narrow again towards the Hot Gates. Leonidas, knowing that the horses would be used as a shock tactic with chariots set an advanced (forward of the line) fire trap to be lit once the chariots had passed, this would be very risky for the troops lying in wait as lightly armed fast running troops would be close behind and the Greek troops would have to reach the 'fire' line quickly while the Spartans held the line.

Xerxes, now perched up on the high ground to watch the sight of his magnificent army and finished his lunch in the heat of the Greek summer sun under his parasol. As the Persian troops waited in the searing heat Xerxes called in his generals - all trustworthy men who were related by family and past accomplishments, including Artabanus and Mardonius. Mardonius urged the King to strike now as the heat of the sun was wearing the enemy down (really his own troops) and Xerxes nodded and told Mardonius to attack. Xerxes said wipe them away.

Leonidas saw the Persians begin to advance and told his officers to have the men prepare and the order was given. The Persians flowed into the pass and fanned out into formation heading for the Hot Gates.

As many thousands of men and horses moved forward it must have been an awesome sight to the Greeks, but Leonidas made sure that the Red men showed their resolution in professionalism was shown to the other Greeks.

Then the Persians were given the order to charge! Xerxes up on his throne saw revenge for his father Darius about to be unleashed. The Greeks waited, waited, waited as the barbarians closed in and one of the Greek commanders yelled unleash! A devasting volley of arrows shot at close range into the chariot and cavalry charge and the front rank was heavily decimated and following behind were even more who took the next volley of barbed shafts, and they just kept on coming through the wreckage!

The Spartans lifted their 20ft pikes from the sand and dug their heels in to absorb the impact of the onslaught and stopped them in their tracks. The signal was given to light the fire trap as the lightly armoured fast troops approached. As the other Greeks cut down the incursors the Red men regrouped into formation and marched forward at battle pace in a line abreast Phalanx with shields and spears pointing forwards with their bobbing Red horse hair crests on their helmets making them look 7ft tall in full battledress with metal greaves on their shins, resplendant breast plates and hefty Hoplos (shield) with Lambda upon it (Lambda is Greek for 'L', Lacedaemon was Greek for Sparta so the symbol, still used by todays military forces is ^ , but larger, like an upside down V) and swords at the ready. There was a huge crash as the light infantry hit the Spartan shields in their hundreds and the Red men cut through and advanced despite the crush of humanity that were trying to kill them, and they routed the enemy!

Xerxes was furious! He ordered Mardonius to send the experienced infantry into the Hot Gates the next morning! At the same time the Persian fleet suffered a severe mauling off Artemisium in a failed outflanking manouver. The Kings meal was spoilt again!

Leonidas knew that an overwhelming attack would be the next option for Xerxes by massed ranks on foot. He drilled his men in formational practice to the awe of the other Greeks. They too wanted to be part of this to keep back the 'barbarians' (barbarians comes from the Greek 'bar bar' as in not comprehensible in understanding their language) and Leonidas welcomed them.

Both sides watched each other that sunrise, and as the heat of the day began to rise Mardonius gave the order for the massed infantry to advance at runnning pace, all several thousand of them, and the Greeks waited.

As the enemy advanced down the pass their war cries grew louder in enthusiasm (another Greek word) and they ran faster with the encouragement of the officers that Xerxes was watching them, but they had fanned out into the width of the pass and now were being funneled due to the mountain and the sea to the Hot Gates! This concerned Mardonius when he saw a heavily armoured squadron of Spartans move forward a few paces and stop. Xerxes insisted on attack! Despite Mardonius raising concerns (Xerxes best general) they attacked!

The Persians charged but the Spartans mantained their position in front of the Hot Gates as the enemy infantry advanced. As they got closer the Red men knelt at the ready as more Greeks poured in behind them and put their spears over their shoulders of the Spartans! With the sound given, an almighty battle cry Launched the Red men into the front ranks of the opposition! Leonidas gave the signal for the archers to unleash!

The Persian troops found themselves packed like sardines and unable to manouvre and after the arrows the javelins were launched. The Greek troops on stand by stepped forward in the heat of this bloody battle and panic and the Spartans feigned a retreat only for the hapless Persians to fall upon another heavily armoured Hoplite wall of troops. The carnage was horrendous ( I have omitted an overly gory depiction) and the Persians fell back and ran for their lives.

Xerxes was astonished and angry! He summoned Mardonius and Artabanus. Artabanus insisted that the major threat was the Greek navy and that Thermopylae was a costly distraction. Mardonius countered/counselled that they could not allow the Greeks to think they could get the better of the mighty Persian army. Xerxes (phon. Zerksees) asked what would they recommend after two days of humiliating defeats. Artabanus said that he would be able to neutralize the Greek fleet within the next one to two days if the weather held up. Mardonius said that they needed to send in the crack troops the 'Immortals' before the heat of the next day. No one had ever withstood the Immortals before.

That evening Xerxes was in his Palatial tent having noticed unease in his tented city. There were literally millions of people there that would soon be running out of resources if they stayed in the same place for much longer. He knew that time was running out! Xerxes called in his intelligence commander and asked if there was anything he needed to be updated on. He told Xerxes that they had not yet found a way around the Hot Gates without having to skirt the whole mountain range which would take many, many days and nights of enforced march with a high probability of losing sense of position - getting lost. He told Xerxes that they had made it widely known that there would be a substantial amount of Persian gold to any locals who could prove good help to the Benevolent Persian King. Xerxes told him that that was a nice touch and dismissed him. Mardonius and Atrabanus jointly toasted Xerxes as the Benevolent King, which of course he knew he was! (correction- suppliant states offered earth and water, not salt, my brain cells honestly)

As the evening wore on a request for an audience was admitted by Xerxes and a Greek man stood before them. 'What do you have to say little Greek? What is your name?' Asked Mardonius as the King and his entourage laughed.

'Ephialtes, your highness!'


Ephialtes, a Malian, knew of the reward being offered for information by the Great King and he informed the Persians of a little known goat track that circumnavigated the Hot Gates up in the mountains but it was guarded by troops of Phocis (there was no loveloss between Phocis and Malis) under orders from Leonidas the Spartan King. The track came out to the south of the Hot Gates to the Greek army's rear.

Naturally the Persians were suspicious that this might be a trick leading to a trap. Mardonius didn't want to let this slip by though if what Ephialtes was saying was the truth. So he suggested to Xerxes that their best scout troop reconnoitre the track. Xerxes agreed and insisted that Ephialtes lead the way under guard. If indeed Ephialtes was helping the Great King's progress then Ephialtes would be paid a very generous amount of Persian gold. The traitor had indeed wormed his way into the History books!

The dawn of a high summers day was yet another of preparation for battle. This time the Greeks could see heavily armoured Persian troops form up at the entrance to Thermpylae. The Greeks readied themselves. As the massed ranks approached they knew it was the infamous 'Immortals'. They had earned this monicker for being highly trained fanatical shock troops. If any were to be cut down they would be immediately replaced by more fanatics and keep moving forward as a shock troop maintaining an 'immortal' front line.

Leonidas ordered the other Greeks to hold fast to plan and ordered the immaculate Spartan troops to advance at a moderate pace.

Mardonius was sure that these were the men to crack open the defence of the Red men! Xerxes asked why were the men in Red advancing beyond their holding line. "To make it harder for themselves my King!"
"You had better be right Mardonius, I am holding you personally responsible! Artabanus! Ready my fleet to move out and make sure your plan works! We can not stay much longer in this place forgotten by the gods!"

Leonidas ordered the Spartan formation to halt some 50 metres of the advancing 'Immortals' just beyond the narrowing of the pass. The order was given to close ranks with shields interlocked and rows of lethal spears projected forward of the ranks. The Greek hoplite was the most heavily armoured soldier in the 5th,4th and 3rd centuries BC. The Spartans formed up into what can only be described in modern terms as a tank!

As one they screamed their battle paen and moved forward at surprising speed and ploughed into the 'Immortals' with such force that Persian troops were impaled, trampled and thrown into the air! To take advantage of the colossal shock the Red men opened ranks and killed with chilling efficiency, before the signal was suddenly given to retreat. As the Persian Immortals gathered their senses they saw the Spartans running backwards! They were retreating! The Immortals seemed to think that they had the Red men on the run and broke their previously disciplined ranks and chased them towards the Hot gates! Now the Spartans turned their backs to them and legged it for the holding line of the defensive wall of Thermopylae and the Immortals lost their shape in eagerness as they charged into the narrow pass to run the Red men down!

Yep! The Persians fell for a feigned retreat yet again! The Rest of the Greek army formed up into closed ranks in front of the defensine wall as the peltast and archers unleashed a hail of javelins, arrows and stones upon the Immortals as the Spartans ran back through the Greek defensive line which closed ranks again. The Red men reformed behind the other Greeks as they charged forward and smashed into the Persians! The battle was ferocious by the Greeks and the Immortals were totally overwhelmed and there was a huge loss of Persian troops, and as the Red men rejoined they were totally routed!

Xerxes was in shock! Mardonius was open mouthed! Xerxes turned to Mardonius ready to explode when - the scouts returned from the mountains. "What is it?!!" screamed Xerxes, "It is true Great King! The track is real!"
Mardonius, relieved to say the least, told Xerxes that the greatest veterans of the Immortals were ready on stand by to move. "Pay the Greek and send him on his way!" said Xerxes still shuddering with anger.

That night the Persians managed to avoid the main troop of the Phocians, but as they descended the mountain a force of Phocians spotted them and sent a runner to Leonidas. The Phocians held as long as they could but the Immortals broke through.

The runner reached Thermopylae a couple of hours before daybreak and Leonidas received the grim news. Just previously Leonidas had received news from his family in Sparta that no reinforcements were coming as they were concentrating on defences on the Isthmus of Corinth. Out at sea Leonidas could see burning ships, at least the news was good there, the Persian navy had suffered a mauling.

Leonidas called the commanders together from the contingent cities and ordered them to depart while he covered their retreat with his Spartans and Helots. The commanders did as ordered and prepared to evacuate their troops. Except the small forces of the Thebans and the Thespians. They made it clear that they were staying with the Red men.

The surviving Phocians rushed back to the Greek position.

As day broke the Immortals appeared to the rear (they didn't chase the troops that had left) and the massed ranks of the Persians were to the front.

Xerxes sent an envoy to offer acceptance of surrender. " Why should we?" said Leonidas. The envoy said " My master, the Great King Xerxes has said that if you do not he will send so many arrows that they will blot out the sun! You would surely die!"

A Red man shouted - "Good! We will fight in the shade then!"
Leonidas - " There, you have your answer!"

The envoy reported back to Xerxes. He ordered his troops to close in for the kill.

Despite the outflanking, the Greeks fought with great ferocity, They knew they were going to die. Again the Persians suffered horrendous casualties and the Persians were ordered to pull back, as this was happening Leonidas received a fatal wound just beyond the defensive wall of the Hot Gates. A detachment of Spartan warriors moved forward hacking through in tight formation and retrieved Leonidas' now dead body. The surviving warriors then formed a defensive circle on a small hill as the Persians closed in, but they were hesitant about being hacked down by these powerful warriors. The Persian troops were told to hold their positions and thousands of Persian Archers were assembled and readied with their bows targeting the surviving warriors.

The order was given and many thousands of arrows were unleashed, volley after volley after volley. Not one Greek survived.

The rest of the Greek army escaped and the news of the death of Leonidas reached the Greek fleet that evening and it withdrew to Salamis. The holding action led by the 300 Spartans bought Greece and Europe precious time. Very precious time.

The Persians paraded Leonidas' head on a pole amongst their ranks as an attempted morale booster.

I have personally been lucky enough to get to Thermopylae some years ago and on a small hill that I was standing on is an engraved message in Ancient Greek by an ancient poet called Simonides:

"Stranger go and tell the Spartans, that we lie here, obedient to their orders."

Xerxes faced limited resistance as his army marched it's way to Athens which was besieged, even though they had reinforced the stone /marble ramparts with a wooden wall of huge spikes on the Acropolis itself, it was eventually stormed and destroyed. The armies of the Peloponnese were defending the Isthmus of Corinth (a narrow piece of land which is comparable to the Panama canal in the Americas but even narrower) and the Persians took on the Greeks in the watery straits of Salamis. With excellent generalship Themistocles' plan smashed the Persian fleet. Xerxes was fearful for his safety and scarpered pretty quick leaving Mardonius behind.

The following year the Persians, after camping in the north of Greece over the winter, were defeated at Platea and Mardonius was killed. At the same time the Persians suffered a humiliating defeat off Mycale. The victorious Greek fleet then sailed for the Hellespont where the war ended with the capture of the Persian base at Sestos. The following year 478 BC, under the command of the Regent of Sparta Pausanias, Byzantion was captured.

In 465 BC Xerxes was assassinated by Artabanus.

The Red men got there in the end.



The End.



We'll be back!

 ;)



We wear the scarlet Red of Liverpool!



 :thumbup




« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 04:15:31 pm by MichaelA »
The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance.

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Offline Terry de Niro

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2006, 01:15:18 am »
Because they looked bigger.   ;)

At the time we wore white sorts with a red stripe at the side, and white socks with a red trim.
The first player to model the red shorts was big Ron, and someone remarked(I think Ian St John, could be wrong) "With red socks we'd look even bigger".

Shouldn't this thread ask why we play in all red?  ;)
« Last Edit: December 22, 2006, 01:17:48 am by Terry De Niro »

Offline Socratease

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2006, 01:30:03 am »
Having Ron Yeats around, 'The Colossus' definately helped, Terry! ;D


'Shouldn't this thread ask why we play in all red?'


It does mate!   ;D




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Offline Terry de Niro

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2006, 01:33:41 am »
Having Ron Yeats around, 'The Colossus' definately helped, Terry! ;D


'Shouldn't this thread ask why we play in all red?'


It does mate!   ;D





OK. Carry on.. ;)

Offline Barney_Rubble

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2006, 01:34:05 am »

It's a very powerful colour.

Colour Psychology

Do different colours affect your mood?

Black

Black is the color of authority and power. It is popular in fashion because it makes people appear thinner. It is also stylish and timeless. Black also implies submission. Priests wear black to signify submission to God. Some fashion experts say a woman wearing black implies submission to men. Black outfits can also be overpowering, or make the wearer seem aloof or evil. Villains, such as Dracula, often wear black.

And referees.... ;D

White

Brides wear white to symbolize innocence and purity. White reflects light and is considered a summer color. White is popular in decorating and in fashion because it is light, neutral, and goes with everything. However, white shows dirt and is therefore more difficult to keep clean than other colors. Doctors and nurses wear white to imply sterility.

white to symbolize innocence and purity.

Leeds? ???

Red

The most emotionally intense color, red stimulates a faster heartbeat and breathing. It is also the color of love. Red clothing gets noticed and makes the wearer appear heavier. Since it is an extreme color, red clothing might not help people in negotiations or confrontations. Red cars are popular targets for thieves. In decorating, red is usually used as an accent. Decorators say that red furniture should be perfect since it will attract attention.


The most romantic color, pink, is more tranquilizing. Sports teams sometimes paint the locker rooms used by opposing teams bright pink so their opponents will lose energy.

Blue

The color of the sky and the ocean, blue is one of the most popular colors. It causes the opposite reaction as red. Peaceful, tranquil blue causes the body to produce calming chemicals, so it is often used in bedrooms. Blue can also be cold and depressing. Fashion consultants recommend wearing blue to job interviews because it symbolizes loyalty. People are more productive in blue rooms. Studies show weightlifters are able to handle heavier weights in blue gyms.

Green

Currently the most popular decorating color, green symbolizes nature. It is the easiest color on the eye and can improve vision. It is a calming, refreshing color. People waiting to appear on TV sit in "green rooms" to relax. Hospitals often use green because it relaxes patients. Brides in the Middle Ages wore green to symbolize fertility. Dark green is masculine, conservative, and implies wealth. However, seamstresses often refuse to use green thread on the eve of a fashion show for fear it will bring bad luck.

Yellow

Cheerful sunny yellow is an attention getter. While it is considered an optimistic color, people lose their tempers more often in yellow rooms, and babies will cry more. It is the most difficult color for the eye to take in, so it can be overpowering if overused. Yellow enhances concentration, hence its use for legal pads. It also speeds metabolism.

Purple

The color of royalty, purple connotes luxury, wealth, and sophistication. It is also feminine and romantic. However, because it is rare in nature, purple can appear artificial.

Brown

Solid, reliable brown is the color of earth and is abundant in nature. Light brown implies genuineness while dark brown is similar to wood or leather. Brown can also be sad and wistful. Men are more apt to say brown is one of their favorite colors.


More on Google etc....

« Last Edit: December 22, 2006, 01:36:33 am by Barney_Rubble »
87:13

Offline SMD

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2006, 04:20:47 am »
Sorry, just to be pedantic but

Persia (Iraq and Iran).

only includes Iran. Iraq was never Persian.

Good read, though.
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."

Offline xerxes

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2006, 08:45:33 am »
Please don't mention Thermopylae, lots of bad memories. I'm getting flashbacks.
Xerxes MBE

Offline rocco

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2006, 08:58:33 am »
We wore all red to make us look BIGGER to other teams ;)

Offline bigbear

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2006, 09:03:06 am »
Having Ron Yeats around, 'The Colossus' definately helped, Terry! ;D


'Shouldn't this thread ask why we play in all red?'


It does mate!   ;D





That's the right answer as far as I've ever known.

Offline SMD

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2006, 09:04:39 am »
We wore all red to make us look BIGGER to other teams ;)

Wouldn't rolled up socks have been more effective?
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2006, 02:02:08 pm »
So what you are saying is that we should funnel all Watford's play into the middle of the pitch and watch out for any attempts to beat the offside trap on the flanks?
"We will win the European Cup one day. Aim for the moon and end up among the stars" - Gérard Houllier 2001

Thankyou Rafa and Jürgen  for taking us to Heaven!

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Offline little ted

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2006, 04:56:11 pm »
I might be wrong but was,nt it a fault at the club laundry, that our shirts came back a pinky salmon colour and Shanks said there was no way the players were going out looking like that, so he put them all in Red
Concatenation of Confounding Contributions Contributed to this Calamitous Cacophony of Consternation.

The shit hit the fan

Offline Simon C

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2006, 05:19:29 pm »
I might be wrong but was,nt it a fault at the club laundry, that our shirts came back a pinky salmon colour and Shanks said there was no way the players were going out looking like that, so he put them all in Red
Your thinking of Palermo from Serie A.

Offline Socratease

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2006, 10:32:10 pm »
Please don't mention Thermopylae, lots of bad memories. I'm getting flashbacks.

Brilliant!  ;D
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Offline campioni1984

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2006, 10:41:52 pm »
Just as well he wasn`t able to ask Crouch, to model our new all red number. ;)
THE REDS ARE COMING UP THE HILL BOYS

Offline RedFinn

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2006, 11:11:13 pm »
Dude... Writing all that stuff.. GET A LIFE!

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2006, 12:25:48 am »
'Sorry, just to be pedantic but


Quote from: Socratease on Today at 01:05:19 AM
Persia (Iraq and Iran).


only includes Iran. Iraq was never Persian.

Good read, though.'
 

Thank you Spam Monkey Deluxe!  ;D

If, however, you examine the history of Persia from ancient times to the recent, you will find that Iraq, as well as Afghanistan where part of Persia as well as other 'modern day' countries.  The designated boundaries that we have today as maps were drawn up by the British in the middle east after the First World War. The division of the Territories, known as Parthia by the Romans, into two seperate entities of Iraq and Iran was purely an attempt by us Brits to control regional leaders.

Not that different to our electoral system then!  :o   ;D

Babylon, without going through too much about the Sumerians, Hittites, Assyrians, etc., and the Euphrates have long been acknowledged as significant contributors to civilization.  ;)

When the Persian Empire of Darius first Struck against Greece in 490 BC, a budding democratic revolution was developing in the city state of Athens, and the city state of Sparta (Lakedaimon/Lacedaemon) was the extreme essence of a warrior elite. It was Athens that turned the tide at Marathon, however, and the runner/courier  Pheidippides went to Sparta to announce the Persian invasion, and demanded help. He reached his destination on the second day after leaving Athens, having covered a distance of 150 miles!

After the battle of Marathon, he set out for Athens with the news of the Greek victory, but he collapsed saying only one word, 'Victory',  and died on arriving at Athens.

You can imagine the effect of this heroic action upon the Spartan city state amongst the proud warrior elite. The Spartans did take part in the battle with unquestionable effect. However the delay of the Spartan force was nearly costly in kudos in the rallying call from  the Greeks for the Spartans.


There never was a 'Marathon' race in the ancient Olympics, it was established in the re-birth of the Olympics by a certain Frenchman in 1896. The Marathon was based on the distance, 26 miles, between Marathon and Athens.

Obviously the victors write the history, but Leonidas changed this concept of story telling by sheer bravery and sacrifice. It could not be ignored, it demanded respect. Herodotos saw this amazing and overwhelming conflict as more than tittle tattle, he became the 'Father of History' in his writings, Thucydides was even more clinical about the Peloponnesian wars.

Future writers would write about Persia after Alexander the Great, he changed the map of the then known world, and he expanded upon it.

Persia was but a quaint  nomenclature put on the map by us Brits, after we were kicked out of Persia, it became Iran. It was'nt that long ago.

By the way, I've done some searching since posting this thread, and it is an absolutely amazing coincidence that I have found this site!  :o


http://300themovie.warnerbros.com/


Check out the trailers, the first Red men in history as you have never seen them before! :scarf



.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2006, 01:05:42 am by Socratease »
The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance.

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Offline Le Terrible

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2006, 01:20:26 am »
Did the Persians reach as far as Fazackerly, Socratease? javascript:void(0);

I think they might have ye know...

Offline kavah

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2006, 01:23:55 am »
This has been exstensively debated on my thread 300 on the arts and media section of this website, I think Danny boys dad adds the most compelling conribution.

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=148799.0

Offline Terry de Niro

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2006, 01:28:38 am »
This has been exstensively debated on my thread 300 on the arts and media section of this website, I think Danny boys dad adds the most compelling conribution.

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=148799.0
;D

Offline Socratease

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2006, 01:39:23 am »
A touch of sarcasm might be involvled there kavah.  ;)

The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance.

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Offline kavah

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2006, 01:49:00 am »
A touch of sarcasm might be involvled there kavah.  ;)



no mate, just  4 murphys and  4 jack and cokes ( 2 doubles) talkin'.   i'll read all that tomorrow ^^ cheers mate
 kavah

Offline SMD

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2006, 06:42:02 am »
'Sorry, just to be pedantic but


Quote from: Socratease on Today at 01:05:19 AM
Persia (Iraq and Iran).


only includes Iran. Iraq was never Persian.

Good read, though.'
 

Thank you Spam Monkey Deluxe!  ;D

If, however, you examine the history of Persia from ancient times to the recent, you will find that Iraq, as well as Afghanistan where part of Persia as well as other 'modern day' countries.  The designated boundaries that we have today as maps were drawn up by the British in the middle east after the First World War. The division of the Territories, known as Parthia by the Romans, into two seperate entities of Iraq and Iran was purely an attempt by us Brits to control regional leaders.

Not that different to our electoral system then!  :o   ;D

Persian Empire is different to Persia :P
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."

Offline Socratease

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« Last Edit: December 24, 2006, 12:53:39 am by Socratease »
The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance.

Socrates

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #24 on: December 25, 2006, 01:20:58 am »
A Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to everyone on RAWK, and to all of our fellow Reds!!

   
Our newly born grand daughter, Neve, is 6 days old now - her first week on this earth will be Christmas Day!   ;D

I wish everyone a wonderful Christmas as a time of great joy and one of family centred celebration, as we draw closer to 2007!

I raise my glass of sweet mulled wine, and bid everyone good Christmas cheer!!!

MERRY CHRISTMAS!     ;D





The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance.

Socrates

Offline Bilsland

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #25 on: December 25, 2006, 05:05:32 am »
Nothing to do with your topic Socs...just wanted to wish you and yours a Vrey Happy Christmas and an improved New Year!

Glad to hear the baby continues to thrive(and be spoilt ;))
Say hello and good wishes to Mrs Socs

Love Liz xx :-*

(The ward is quiet, thank God..never before known on a Christmas Eve!!!)

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2006, 01:49:54 am »
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you Bils and your family!

 ;D
The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance.

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Offline Socratease

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2006, 11:40:11 pm »
A question.

Can any one tell me/Us the date, the opposition and location of our first match in all Red?


 :scarf




The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance.

Socrates

Offline TheLeftSide

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2006, 11:49:25 pm »
10/02/1965 against Cologne. I think....... 

Offline Terry de Niro

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2006, 01:44:37 am »
A question.

Can any one tell me/Us the date, the opposition and location of our first match in all Red?
10/02/1965 against Cologne. I think....... 
"In 1964, then Liverpool manager, Bill Shankly decided to send the team out in all red for the first time against Anderlecht, as Ian St. John recalled in his autobiography:
“    He thought the colour scheme would carry psychological impact — red for danger, red for power. He came into the dressing room one day and threw a pair of red shorts to Ronnie Yeats. “Get into those shorts and let’s see how you look,” he said. “Christ, Ronnie, you look awesome, terrifying. You look 7ft tall.” “Why not go the whole hog, boss?” I suggested. “Why not wear red socks? Let’s go out all in red.” Shankly approved and an iconic kit was born."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool_F.C.

and according to http://www.liverweb.org.uk/season.asp?season=196465 .. it was at Anfield..

"R1     25/11/64     Anderlecht    Home     W     3-0     St.John (10), Hunt (43), Yeats (50)"     
« Last Edit: December 30, 2006, 01:56:57 am by Terry De Niro »

Offline Red_in_Holland

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #30 on: December 30, 2006, 02:23:55 am »
He had em in Red to make em bigger..  A great move from Shankly.

Soc.. try Stephen Pressfield's ... Gates of Fire.   That is the best reading about the Spartans at Thermopylae I have ever read.

Yeah.. and I saw 300 Spartans when I was a kid, too.

:D

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Offline porttroop

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2006, 08:32:37 am »
[
A question.

Can any one tell me/Us the date, the opposition and location of our first match in all Red?


 :scarf
Deffo Andelecht




[/quote]
Shove your flag.

Offline Socratease

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #32 on: December 31, 2006, 01:18:25 am »
LFC, MBE



Stevie G, MBE

The headline on the mirror

On this bright 'S*n'ny day

I shaded my eyes and

Glanced away, again


It was almost Dickensian

For a Red Captain

To be posted forth

As a Red Tommy trooper

How long will it be

Before it is seen

As Kipling wrote,

If,

Only.


Not the MaKenzian

Non existant ethic of the

Anthropological

Diminution

Of The Surplus Population!



Stevie G, MBE

How good does that sound

When you say it

Out Loud?

It sounds Good to me!

I don't take part

In rating tables.


You see.



We have a Common wealth

Of trading nations

We have a love

For our Red formations

All who read

Dedicated to LFC,

Will never

Walk alone.


You see.



Congratulations, to Stevie G

The Captain of Liverpool FC!


LFC, MBE, thanks Team, and

Stevie G!

.


 :scarf


The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance.

Socrates

Offline Socratease

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #33 on: December 31, 2006, 10:04:03 pm »
The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance.

Socrates

Offline Socratease

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #34 on: January 2, 2007, 09:53:50 pm »
My Belief


Author  Topic:   My Belief
 
bilsland

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  posted 02 January 2007 03:36 PM         
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


My confidence this season was always in the belief that with Rafa at the helm we had the potential, nay the certainty to finally overcome our failure to win the Premiership.
That particular belief is still a part of me.It is so strong that I have put no limit or time-frame in my mind as to when it will happen, just that it will.

This season we had no favours at all from the fixture list.We had a very difficult run of games that would have tested any Team, even those currently in the top two position.They had to be dealt with and we have done so. Coming through that awful period with the knowledge that Our senior players have had their dip in form and have come out the other side.

We also had some key injuries to contend with at the worst time. We had to throw into mid-field a young lad who under different circumstances would have had a much gentler introduction to the premiership.In fact that goes for Aurelio as well as Gonzales and both of them have suffered injuries themselves.

In any other Team, the loss of a major player like Momo would have severely hampered them.
Our players have responded magnificently to his loss and Rafa's policy of making his players as adaptable as possible is paying off.We are currently in all the Cup Competitions, Still Challenging for the Premiership and all with players missing.

The Chelsea Manager is bemoaning the loss of 2 players as the reason for his dip in form! He has players on his books that we can only dream about.When ManU won their Prem Titles they has spent a fearsome amount of money and by comparison to the rest of the League were the Chelsea of their day.

I believe that we have the nucleus of our Title winning squad now.We need cover for Finnan and we need a speciallist LB(sorry JAR you just can't tackle and you have no pace).
I think that in another season's time we will see just why Rafa was so determined to get Gonzalez and Pennant will have got over his stage fright and become the Winger we need..failing that we shall get someone in the summer.

I really believe we have the best man for the job.He believes in the Liverpool way and with the extra funding provided by investment he will be able to at least match the top contenders for the players we need without us becoming another Chelsea.He has integrety and Class and deserves our support.He has brought us prizes we couldn't dream of already...I can't wait to see what else is to come.

I can see this Team starting to believe in themselves and starting to interpret the game as Rafa wants. "slowly slowly catchee monkey" is an old saying, and I believe that this is what we are doing.

I have Confidence

I believe

So should you all.


-----
 
 
I don't know about you, but I think the above post by bilsland exemplifies Red passion, though I may contest very minor points, this is a thoughtful and well written post from the heart, with Liverpool FC foremost in the mind!

It's good to be Red , is'nt it?!

 :scarf



The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance.

Socrates

Offline Socratease

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #35 on: January 2, 2007, 10:05:32 pm »
"In 1964, then Liverpool manager, Bill Shankly decided to send the team out in all red for the first time against Anderlecht, as Ian St. John recalled in his autobiography:
“    He thought the colour scheme would carry psychological impact — red for danger, red for power. He came into the dressing room one day and threw a pair of red shorts to Ronnie Yeats. “Get into those shorts and let’s see how you look,” he said. “Christ, Ronnie, you look awesome, terrifying. You look 7ft tall.” “Why not go the whole hog, boss?” I suggested. “Why not wear red socks? Let’s go out all in red.” Shankly approved and an iconic kit was born."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool_F.C.

and according to http://www.liverweb.org.uk/season.asp?season=196465 .. it was at Anfield..

"R1     25/11/64     Anderlecht    Home     W     3-0     St.John (10), Hunt (43), Yeats (50)"     


Thank you for the links Terry!  :thumbup
« Last Edit: January 3, 2007, 12:14:32 am by Socratease »
The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance.

Socrates

Offline RedMike-86-

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #36 on: January 2, 2007, 10:07:29 pm »
This has been exstensively debated on my thread 300 on the arts and media section of this website, I think Danny boys dad adds the most compelling conribution.

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=148799.0

 ;D
In the land of the witless, the half-wit is king.

Offline Socratease

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #37 on: January 3, 2007, 12:30:50 am »
 ;D
The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance.

Socrates

Offline Jordo

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #38 on: January 3, 2007, 12:53:01 am »
It was a cold winters day, down at Anfield Road
When Shanks stood at the gates, both proud and bold
we need something in our armour, to put fear and dread
into the enemies of Liverpool, in white and red

so he came up with the idea, plain and true
that his team will play in blood red, through and through
he dressed Yeats in this new kit, so sublime
told reporters to walk 'round colossus, 'take yer time'

and so was born the legend, of the mighty reds
and now millions of children dream, within their beds
of pulling on the jersey, just like big Ron Yeats
And standing proud and tall, beneath the Shankly gates
Take this ground for the Spion Kop
Main Stand, Annie, Kemlyn Road
And Justice for the 96
Youll Never Walk Alone

Offline kavah

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Re: Why Did Shankly Have Our Players Wear Red?
« Reply #39 on: January 3, 2007, 06:29:04 am »
^ jordo, nice poem, love the 2nd verse.