Topic: The Attack

[Brentieke]

The other thread is locked and we can't have player threads anymore, so...

Just wanted to say a word about Fabio Borini. I've never rated him, was livid he refused to leave in the Summer.

He showed an unbelievable amount of passion and workrate today. Reminded me of Dirk Kuyt in his pomp, and what a cross! Really wish he got a goal, because he absolutely deserved one.

Start him up top with Balotelli on Saturday Brendan. Surely he deserves a go, considering how much he gave today?

[Melbred]

He deserves it, has shown a lot more than our other strikers this season, and deserves a shot. At the very least you know he'll work his bollocks off and put in a real shift.

That cross today was sublime.

[Warks Moustache]

The movement he provided was invaluable. The team doesn't work without work ethic (which I think has been lacking), but Borini shows he has the appetite to keep making the right runs.

[Mr_Morosoph]

I'd start any striker we had with Balotelli. He needs someone to play off. Between Lambert and Borini, Borini probably deserves it more based on the performances.

[Humperdinck]

He'll put in a great shift if he does start, I just dont see him ever scoring though which is the worry with him. Not as if others are tearing it up though and he got a good assist tonight so go for it I suppose, just dont be surprised if it ends up West Ham away rather than tonight.

[IndianRed]

Borini brings a ton of energy and pressing ability to our front line that we've lost without Suarez. With him, we looked so much better defending from the front this game. This allowed our midfield to grab control of the game and dominate possession. And he displayed good link-up and interplay that I didn't think he had it in him. I'd agree that Borini's earned a shot against Newcastle with this performance. Play two up top, with Raheem taking Markovic's spot in today's midfield.

[jepovic]

I think he would be a much better fit with Balo than Lambert, providing the movement we need. But it would cost us a midfielder of course.

[Draex]

The other thread is locked and we can't have player threads anymore, so...

Just wanted to say a word about Fabio Borini. I've never rated him, was livid he refused to leave in the Summer.

He showed an unbelievable amount of passion and workrate today. Reminded me of Dirk Kuyt in his pomp, and what a cross! Really wish he got a goal, because he absolutely deserved one.

Start him up top with Balotelli on Saturday Brendan. Surely he deserves a go, considering how much he gave today?

If he wasn't soft as butter he'd be a quality player, goes down far too easy and stays down. Otherwise good performance.

[LFCDynamic]

That was Fab from Borini.

[Brentieke]

Borini brings a ton of energy and pressing ability to our front line that we've lost without Suarez. With him, we looked so much better defending from the front this game. This allowed our midfield to grab control of the game and dominate possession. And he displayed good link-up and interplay that I didn't think he had it in him. I'd agree that Borini's earned a shot against Newcastle with this performance. Play two up top, with Raheem taking Markovic's spot in today's midfield.

Agreed mate.

I'd also add that he was being niggly all game. Getting in defenders faces, arguing decisions etc... We've missed that since Suarez left, we've now got a very timid front line.

He was encouraging players all the time too, geeing the crowd up etc... Really hope he gets a start at Newcastle. He also offers us flexibility in terms of changing formations in game. We can start with a diamond, switch to 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1 etc without subbing anyone off.

And he loves a goal against the Geordies!

[WelshMike]

Let's not forget that they started up front together vs West Ham and Borini was invisible.

I'm not saying that he doesn't deserve to start or that they'll form an immediate partnership - in fact I'd argue that Balotelli would benefit from a partner and it wouldn't do any harm to have a mobile player alongside him, rather than Lambert - but people keep commenting on our attack with such shortsightedness at the moment.

It's not really about individuals right now. Many were dying for Lambert to start but the truth is that he did very little tonight, especially after the first half hour. It's more to do with how they link up as a unit and get support from other areas and that, most of all, rests with our coaches and manager. We've got a *lot* of work to do in that respect because there doesn't appear to be any clear plan coming to fruition at the moment and we're struggling badly to create chances or break teams down.

But it's near-pointless talking about Balotelli or Borini or whoever until we sort that and our other systematic approaches all over the pitch. There's a reason that no new signing has particularly stood out and even last year's reliable players (Sterling, Henderson, etc.) have looked inconsistent at best.

[LFCDynamic]

Agreed mate.

I'd also add that he was being niggly all game. Getting in defenders faces, arguing decisions etc... We've missed that since Suarez left, we've now got a very timid front line.

He was encouraging players all the time too, geeing the crowd up etc... Really hope he gets a start at Newcastle.

[Upinsmoke]

Neither Borini or Lambert are good enough. At west ham people never wanted to see borini again, then lambert comes on against Hull and does ok with mario and then people want that, then lambert doesn't do enough tonight and people want him out and borini in now.

It's obvious neither are good enough.

[fefs]

Sterling Balotelli Borini as a front 3
If Balotelli drops deep or wide the other 2 should have the intelligence to move into his space.

[LFCDynamic]

Neither Borini or Lambert are good enough. At west ham people never wanted to see borini again, then lambert comes on against Hull and does ok with mario and then people want that, then lambert doesn't do enough tonight and people want him out and borini in now.

It's obvious neither are good enough.

For now we work with what we've got. I still feel Borini may have more to say though.

[RyanBabel19]

He's been like that since we bought him though

[Brentieke]

Neither Borini or Lambert are good enough. At west ham people never wanted to see borini again, then lambert comes on against Hull and does ok with mario and then people want that, then lambert doesn't do enough tonight and people want him out and borini in now.

It's obvious neither are good enough.

Not arguing otherwise mate, but I reckon he was the 2nd best player on the pitch today bar Coutinho and deserves a chance on Saturday.

Long term, he's probably not good enough. But for the here and now, he deserves another go.

It's not like we're going to leave out anyone playing well to fit him in anyways.

[Funky_Gibbons]

The problem with playing two up front and a diamond midfield is that although we look more threatening we also concede twice as many shots on goal. That's fine when last season we had Suarez and Sturridge who scored lots of goals but without Sturridge I can't see Borini and Balotelli scoring enough goals to make it work. 

[Lastrador]

Let's not forget that they started up front together vs West Ham and Borini was invisible.

I'm not saying that he doesn't deserve to start or that they'll form an immediate partnership - in fact I'd argue that Balotelli would benefit from a partner and it wouldn't do any harm to have a mobile player alongside him, rather than Lambert - but people keep commenting on our attack with such shortsightedness at the moment.

It's not really about individuals right now. Many were dying for Lambert to start but the truth is that he did very little tonight, especially after the first half hour. It's more to do with how they link up as a unit and get support from other areas and that, most of all, rests with our coaches and manager. We've got a *lot* of work to do in that respect because there doesn't appear to be any clear plan coming to fruition at the moment and we're struggling badly to create chances or break teams down.

But it's near-pointless talking about Balotelli or Borini or whoever until we sort that and our other systematic approaches all over the pitch. There's a reason that no new signing has particularly stood out and even last year's reliable players (Sterling, Henderson, etc.) have looked inconsistent at best.

I don't think he was invisible mate, I remember he had a couple of good shots on goal and showed a lot of desire, things just didn't happen for him on that game. Specially on the second half he looked to be growing on the game, before he got substituted.

[Melbred]

At the very least Borini offers way more mobility than the likes of Balotelli and Lambert. Far too often, we are completely static going forward. Borini tries to make those runs and to find some space.

[Melbred]

The problem with playing two up front and a diamond midfield is that although we look more threatening we also concede twice as many shots on goal. That's fine when last season we had Suarez and Sturridge who scored lots of goals but without Sturridge I can't see Borini and Balotelli scoring enough goals to make it work.

We don't really score enough goals at all this season to be fair. Need the goals to win games.

[Humperdinck]

He's been like that since we bought him though

Yep, he's nowhere near the required standard long term, would happily see him leave in January and use the money to hopefully get someone better.

It's never a good sign for a player when the best arguments for him are "worked hard" "gee'd up the crowd" etc. But at least he contributed to a goal tonight and it's needs must till Jan or Sturridge is back. Before I get caned for hating him, I dont, he's an ok player and seems like a top lad but the standard was set last season and we need to get somewhere close to that again.

[Upinsmoke]

The problem with playing two up front and a diamond midfield is that although we look more threatening we also concede twice as many shots on goal. That's fine when last season we had Suarez and Sturridge who scored lots of goals but without Sturridge I can't see Borini and Balotelli scoring enough goals to make it work.

We didn't play a diamond tonight though. Borini was right wing, he offers energy to play that role, like dirk i suppose.

[Funky_Gibbons]

We didn't play a diamond tonight though. Borini was right wing, he offers energy to play that role, like dirk i suppose.

I know, I'm referring to people who say we should pay a front two of Balotelli and Borini.

[Upinsmoke]

I know, I'm referring to people who say we should pay a front two of Balotelli and Borini.

Oh right, soz.

[ac]

Our biggest problem in attack without Sturridge is lack of movement. Borini's best quality is his movement. Baffled as to why Borini has been excluded from the team thus far.

[QC]

Borini Balotelli is clearly the best striking set up we have available until Sturridge returns.

[kcbworth]

We scored

[Anywhichwayicant]

Over the moon he stayed in the summer.


Game time he has gotten so far has been unacceptable.

[Upinsmoke]

Our biggest problem in attack without Sturridge is lack of movement. Borini's best quality is his movement. Baffled as to why Borini has been excluded from the team thus far.

He moves but it's not necessarily in behind, i mean Lambert moves, it's just a lot slower than required, much like Mario.

Our game last season was based on incisiveness, anticipation and even the ability to gamble right, even if it didn't come off the first time Danny and Luis would keep gambling, keep running in behind. Nobody does that. Everything is in front of the opposition back four.

Rickie didn't do anything in particular wrong tonight but our game isn't really based on a lone forward dropping deep, holding it up, laying it off etc. It's very much andy carroll all over again watching rickie play.

 

[kcbworth]

Yep, he's nowhere near the required standard long term, would happily see him leave in January and use the money to hopefully get someone better.

It's never a good sign for a player when the best arguments for him are "worked hard" "gee'd up the crowd" etc. But at least he contributed to a goal tonight and it's needs must till Jan or Sturridge is back. Before I get caned for hating him, I dont, he's an ok player and seems like a top lad but the standard was set last season and we need to get somewhere close to that again.

One step closer is scoring goals. We should use whatever we have at our disposal to do that more often

[JackWard33]

As I've posted many times I don't rate him at all

Thought he did fine tonight - he always gives you plenty of energy aka running around - but he's nowhere near the quality we need
Yes he gets a good assist for the goal but he does that very very rarely

The problem is he isn't a striker, or he doesn't play like one.
He almost never gets into the box or threatens to get into dangerous positions. He doesn't do anything well enough to cause defenders problems (and his underlying numbers back this up - he shoots rarely, contributes to goals rarely and doesn't create).

Sorry but I can't join the lovefest -  just don't see him as the answer to any of our problems

[ac]

He moves but it's not necessarily in behind, i mean Lambert moves, it's just a lot slower than required, much like Mario.

Our game last season was based on incisiveness, anticipation and even the ability to gamble right, even if it didn't come off the first time Danny and Luis would keep gambling, keep running in behind. Nobody does that. Everything is in front of the opposition back four. 

 

Not saying he is Suarez in his movement but his sheer mobility would offer more options to our midfielders and distract opponents. He clearly isn't the long term but I think Borini next to Balotelli is our best option till Sturridge comes back

[Billy The Kid]

Just wanted to say a word about Fabio Borini. I've never rated him

Not like you to not rate one of our players

Borini is a useful player. I think his work ethic is particularly useful when the opposition are a side that like to carry the ball out from the back.

He'll do his utmost to be a thorn in their side. Much like Suarez was, and Sturridge is

The only thing is though, most of the meat head teams in this league aren't really that way inclined

Its only when you go up the totem pole of quality teams that you'll find that that aspect of his play is really contributory 

He'll probably press better than Sturridge will overall, and better than Balotelli for that matter

But I'd still opt for the aforementioned two to start if we were playing better quality teams.

IMO they are more likely to make something out of half a chance than he is. Quality wise

Hence I don't really see him becoming a regular in our striking set-up. Then again, I'd be happy if he proved otherwise

[Melbred]

As I've posted many times I don't rate him at all

Thought he did fine tonight - he always gives you plenty of energy aka running around - but he's nowhere near the quality we need
Yes he gets a good assist for the goal but he does that very very rarely

The problem is he isn't a striker, or he doesn't play like one.
He almost never gets into the box or threatens to get into dangerous positions. He doesn't do anything well enough to cause defenders problems (and his underlying numbers back this up - he shoots rarely, contributes to goals rarely and doesn't create).

Sorry but I can't join the lovefest -  just don't see him as the answer to any of our problems

It's not really a love fest. People want to see two up top so we can start scoring goals again, and he's a better option than Lambert who has shown next to nothing in all his performances.

[Anywhichwayicant]

As I've posted many times I don't rate him at all

Thought he did fine tonight - he always gives you plenty of energy aka running around - but he's nowhere near the quality we need
Yes he gets a good assist for the goal but he does that very very rarely

The problem is he isn't a striker, or he doesn't play like one.
He almost never gets into the box or threatens to get into dangerous positions. He doesn't do anything well enough to cause defenders problems (and his underlying numbers back this up - he shoots rarely, contributes to goals rarely and doesn't create).

Sorry but I can't join the lovefest -  just don't see him as the answer to any of our problems

Provides infinitely more than Lambert.

One's a local lad though, the other isn't.

[JackWard33]

It's not really a love fest. People want to see two up top so we can start scoring goals again, and he's a better option than Lambert who has shown next to nothing in all his performances.

Why does 2 up top = scoring goals?
There are a lot of different formations you can be an effective attacking unit in (a lot of the most effective attacking units in the world at the moment are 1 up) - there's nothing magical about playing 2 strikers
The problem with playing Borini as a striker in a 2 is that one of your 'strikers' isn't actually doing anything threatening (and no running around a lot doesn't count) so you have what happened at West Ham where we're essentially out numbered in midfield with no extra attacking threat as compensation for that sacrifice

[Djimi Smicer34]

Borini got his chance and made an impression.  I'm delighted for him, he never stops plugging away and made a difference tonight with his assist.  He really should have played himself into contention for Saturday now, he offers us something different to the other strikers we have available and can be a really good foil for Balotelli. 

[Melbred]

Why does 2 up top = scoring goals?
There are a lot of different formations you can be an effective attacking unit in (a lot of the most effective attacking units in the world at the moment are 1 up) - there's nothing magical about playing 2 strikers
The problem with playing Borini as a striker in a 2 is that one of your 'strikers' isn't actually doing anything threatening (and no running around a lot doesn't count) so you have what happened at West Ham where we're essentially out numbered in midfield with no extra attacking threat as compensation for that sacrifice

Because pretty much the only good game we've played this season was with two up top (against Spurs). Balotelli has looked largely ineffective so far, and his best performance was when he was playing alongside another forward.

If Borini continues to perform like he did today, then you can't really say he "isn't actually doing anything threatening", he was one of our main threats today. He at least deserves the chance, especially with how poor we've been performing overall.

Your views on him are tainted by the fact you've already made your mind up on him.

[kcbworth]

Why does 2 up top = scoring goals?
There are a lot of different formations you can be an effective attacking unit in (a lot of the most effective attacking units in the world at the moment are 1 up) - there's nothing magical about playing 2 strikers
The problem with playing Borini as a striker in a 2 is that one of your 'strikers' isn't actually doing anything threatening (and no running around a lot doesn't count) so you have what happened at West Ham where we're essentially out numbered in midfield with no extra attacking threat as compensation for that sacrifice

A. Last year (and in our 1 good game against Spurs, and this win) we played 2 up front and scored bucketloads of goals...

B. This year weve played 1 up front and scored.... NO goals

A + B = 2 up front gets us more goals