Topic: Round Table Discussion - Liverpool 1-2 Man Utd

[royhendo]

Well, what can you say?

Pre-match, both managers did us all proud. I was particularly pleased with Brendan Rodgers - he was duly statesmanlike.

The pre-game formalities were so moving I was welling up as I watched, I have to confess.

To the game.

It's horrible. I said to a mate this morning I thought Valencia would be the difference. First half, until the moment of Spearing-based deja vu from Shelvey, I thought we were excellent, but had our usual issue up top.

2nd half, a man light, I thought the introductions were largely spot on. Ball limpet with threat in Suso for the injured Borini, then Henderson with his bionic legs for a tiring Sterling (was he tiring?).

So - questions.

Is Suarez a problem? He can't seem to lay a ball off to a team mate.

Should he have been benched instead of Sterling when Henderson came on?

Did Suso grab his big chance?

Was the performance of our 10 testament to good work on the training ground?

Were the goals preventable?

Was Halsey the big difference in a way? Yes, Jonjo made it possible for him, but where was the consistency?

And, of course, most important of all, did the event do justice to the families and to the game in general? (It's easy to forget the context - thanks Mark Halsey.)

Over to you guys.

[Garstonite]

Overriding emotion? Pride.

Pride, firstly of course, in our pre-match formalities, as you touch upon. Pride secondly in the lads on the pitch. We were exceptionally courageous today. This isn't a special Utd side, but it still takes some doing to pen them in their own half for sustained periods of time. And pride, lastly, for the fans once again. I wrote an article for here about the need for patience at the start of the season and today we showed, together, that we've got that. The support for Rodgers, the support and appreciation for the lads at the final whistle. There's a belief and trust that this way of playing and this group of lads will come good in time. That's reassuring.

Onto the specifics. I thought this fluidity of the front three was a lot better today. That's been my biggest area of concern so far. If you don't have a 'target' that will make space by drawing in players, then you need to be clever and persistent with your movement around the area. Sterling is growing as each game goes. He shows no signs of letting an occasion get to him. Borini, I have a few concerns with. I don't think his touch is quite good enough. In these games in particular, your first touch has to be immaculate because if it isn't you're not getting another one.

I thought the support from the full-backs was much better today as well. Against Arsenal, they always had an outlet from their full-backs (particularly Gibbs). Today was much better in that regard. Johnson was superb today. I still maintain - last week's error against Gardner aside - that he's the best left full-back at the club. I may be alone but I think I actually prefer him on that flank. He's much more unpredictable and gets more opportunities to open his body up and shoot. It was that threat coming inside that led to our goal.

Lastly, Halsey. Talking about a ref after a game against Utd. Who'd have thought it?

Before I say anything else, I'd just like to make clear that I actually rate Halsey highly. He's easily one of the best refs in the league (although I guess that isn't saying too much). Today though? Woeful. Red card and pen aside, Suarez is taken out from behind near the edge of the area in injury time. We're down to NINE men with Kelly off at that point. His decision? Advantage. Wow.

[Garstonite]

Another point:

I also think it's got to the point where Rodgers ought to come out and give a 'case for the defence' as it were, regarding Suarez. Even law of averages state a player with his ability on the ball and the amount of times he runs at defences will invariably get SOME free-kicks and, SHOCK HORROR, penalties too.

[BabuYagu]

Well, what can you say?

Pre-match, both managers did us all proud. I was particularly pleased with Brendan Rodgers - he was duly statesmanlike.

The pre-game formalities were so moving I was welling up as I watched, I have to confess.

Unfortunately the links I downloaded to see the game didnīt include any build up or interviews but from all accounts it was very well handled by all involved and it has to be said, thanks to Manchester United for how they handled the situation also.

To the game.

It's horrible. I said to a mate this morning I thought Valencia would be the difference. First half, until the moment of Spearing-based deja vu from Shelvey, I thought we were excellent, but had our usual issue up top.

I thought we absolutely dominated them first half. It wasnīt even a contest and Halsey had to step in and even things up for his employers. Iīll be honest Iīm fucking livid with the referee for that game. Shelvey is a wreckless tackler. Heīs like a young Gerrard or Paul Scholes throughout his career. I made a case to start Shelvey because I donīt like how Shelvey dives in like that and Henderson is probably our best midfielder in terms of defendsive abilities and energy levels. Heīs like a more rounded Momo Sissoko for me. He is better on the ball, passing and shooting but isnīt quite at Momoīs level in terms of sheer physical capabilities and athleticism. There are similarities for me and I think he will still make a great player.

Saying all that though. Shelvey won 100% of the ball. He didnīt leave the ground. His left leg did not follow through. The tackle looked reckless because he bounced out of 1 tackle into another and was therefore sprinting into it to get momentum. So I donīt really know what Shelvey did wrong. Are you just not allowed to slide tackle? Should we just go ahead then and make that rule now so itīs clear then because Johnson was similarly penalised for going to ground when in reality he didnīt touch the player. You know the decisions are wrong when Sky Sports commentators are questioning things in favour of Manchester United.

I loved our first half performance and despite all the criticism Rodgers will probably get from our part time, instant gratification fans, you can clearly see that he is moulding us into something and that once we gets it ticking we will be a seriously dangerous team to play against. I donīt remember United having the ball under control in our half in the first half after the opening salvo.

2nd half, a man light, I thought the introductions were largely spot on. Ball limpet with threat in Suso for the injured Borini, then Henderson with his bionic legs for a tiring Sterling (was he tiring?).

Sterling looks like he could have kept running but to be honest I still thought it was the right move. We then had 5 players on the pitch who can play centrally and we needed to compress the space without the ball being down to 10 men. I loved the bravery in bringing Suso on for Borini also. Rodgers has some stones on him playing so many young players in a game as big as this and Suso & Sterling both had good games.

So - questions.

Is Suarez a problem? He can't seem to lay a ball off to a team mate.

I think more than anyone else this idea that he is our only goal threat seems to have stuck in his head and he plays at times where he has to do it all on his own. When it works thatīs fine but he canīt keep going like this. One of the key elements in possession based football is that you need to be unselfish at times. Suarez started off for Liverpool being a major creative force and needs to get back to that for me. I wonder how much of that is due to him being played central, "the only senior striker" we have etc.

Should he have been benched instead of Sterling when Henderson came on?

There is a case to be made for it. Perhaps with Henderson playing deep and Gerrard playing further forward between Sterling and Suso? I find it hard thought to criticise anything Rodgers did today. I think he got everything pretty much spot on and itīs only is using hindsight that we could criticise. Likewise when Agger went off I was thinking we should put Kelly central and Henderson at right back. Was terrified of Carra v v.Persie part II. Rodgers did very little wrong today. It was all Halsey IMO.... and I loathe saying that because I firmly believe the referee should be irrelevant and you should win whether or not close decisions go against you. Today was too much though. Playing 50mins+ with 10 men against one of the worlds best sides is tough. Giving them a penalty to help them seal it is just insulting.

Did Suso grab his big chance?

For me yes. Put a contract in front of him now.

Was the performance of our 10 testament to good work on the training ground?

It seems like Rodgers has put some work in on our shape 10 v 11. We looked the better side even a man short I thought. Of course there was more space and they had more luck against us but we still looked a threat with 10, moreso than they did.

Were the goals preventable?

Thatīs a tough one, you or Yorky have played center half and can maybe comment better on Agger for the first goal. Itīs easy to say he should have stopped that but I think the biggest threat was Rafael trying to beat him and the chances of him bending it round both Agger and Reina on his weak foot were pretty remote. That was more a great finish than a mistake from Agger for me. The second was all Halsey. Reina was unlucky as he got to it but Persie had enough power and direction that Reina could just get fingers instead of palms behind it.

Was Halsey the big difference in a way? Yes, Jonjo made it possible for him, but where was the consistency?

He was absolutely fucking shocking. Wonīt say anymore than that. Just sickens me that another great contest was ruined by inept refereeing. Shelvey also needs to learn fast that referees donīt like players going to ground. It doesnīt even matter if you win the ball or not. Referees now view slide tackles as dangerous and you are putting your life in their incompetant hands when you do so.

And, of course, most important of all, did the event do justice to the families and to the game in general? (It's easy to forget the context - thanks Mark Halsey.)

As I said, I missed the buildup but Iīll make an effort to see it over the coming week.

[BabuYagu]

Suarez is taken out from behind near the edge of the area in injury time. We're down to NINE men with Kelly off at that point. His decision? Advantage. Wow.

I almost forgot that. Did you feel we got the advantage from that situation at all?

Referees are now well paid, full time professionals. There needs to be some system for punishing and rewarding their performances. Halsey should have to run the line for MK Dons for a few weeks and replace him with the best performing Championship ref. The current system isnīt working. The "big game" refs consistently ruin the big games and there is no repercusion for them.

[Garstonite]

I almost forgot that. Did you feel we got the advantage from that situation at all?

Referees are now well paid, full time professionals. There needs to be some system for punishing and rewarding their performances. Halsey should have to run the line for MK Dons for a few weeks and replace him with the best performing Championship ref. The current system isnīt working. The "big game" refs consistently ruin the big games and there is no repercusion for them.

When I first started going to the game, I didn't know who most of the referees were. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is George Courtney. I know there's a lot more coverage on football in this day and age, but it's ridiculous how they've become these figures. You know every single one of them, usually identifiable from a fuck up of theirs in the past.

[BabuYagu]

I despise the stop start nature of most American sports but there is a case to be put for video replays of contentious decisions. Halsey consulted the 4th official today before the red card.... what if the 4th official is in the media room and has seen slow motion replay 5 times before replying? It took 2 minutes to send Shelvey off.... would it really make the delay any greater. Likewise the penalty decision. There was a delay obviously for the Agger injury but there is always a 1 to 2 minute delay in penalties being taken while people surround the ref, the keeper slows things down to unnerve the taken etc. Again, an extra minute for someone to see replay from every angle would really hurt things much.

Iīm not saying every decision needs to be scrutinised. However penalties, balls appearing to cross the line, straight red cards... these need looking at. There is too much money involved in football now for the outcomes of games to be dictated by incompetant refereeing. The difference between 4th and 5th in the league is tens of millions. 16th and 17th in the league can make or break a club literally. Itīs easy saying these things balance themselves out but they really donīt. How many contentious decisions go against Manchester United?

Mr Fergusonīs penalty comment before the game was a stroke of genius. Pushed the right button with the FA right there didnīt he? How easily manipulated are they and their employees?

[BabuYagu]

Just to add a freezeframe of the red card decision.... that is a shocker from Halsey who as you can see had a perfect view of evans and still got it completely wrong.

[StevenLFC]

Personally I'd say both players were reckless and possibly both could have seen red. There are signs that this team will flourish under Rodgers and they look like they've adapted well to the new system. We lost the game today and that's tough to take but looking long term things look very good.

[Azi]

I will try and conjure up something salient if I get the chance, but inevitably that won't happen. One thing I hope Rodgers will address is Sterling's apparent fear at shooting.

Please forgive me if I've missed something, but I've noticed a number of occasions where instead of shooting in the box when presented with a good opportunity he's looked for a little pass which has invariably been booted back to the halfway line, and you just think to yourself 'don't worry Raheem, no one is going to tell you off'.

The full confidence will come eventually, but if he is going to play as an attacking winger then he should be attempting to score if he sees the opportunity but also shouldn't be berated by his teammates for doing so.

I don't have the photographic memory that some of you do about the games, but the attempt which hit the post against City is the closest I think he's got to scoring.

Definitely not a criticism, but if he's going to occupy a first team slot, I don't think it's harsh to note areas where players like him can improve.

your not alone dan had the same discussion on twitter as soon as he reaches the edge of the box he realizes where he is and freezes actually carried on from last year he had a couple of shots and missed horribly and was berated by gerrard (i think might be wrong) who was open and since hes always looked to pass am sure the longer hes in the first team the more confident he'll get, also if raheem was going to start today what was the point in taking him to Switzerland he looked leggy in the second half and that journey wouldn't have helped.

[BabuYagu]

I will try and conjure up something salient if I get the chance, but inevitably that won't happen. One thing I hope Rodgers will address is Sterling's apparent fear at shooting.

I don't have the photographic memory that some of you do about the games, but the attempt which hit the post against City is the closest I think he's got to scoring.

To be honest Sterlings shooting from just outside the box is one of his biggest assets. When he finds the confidence to do so it will be a whole new level of pant shitting fear for opposition full backs. 

This reminded me of Suso today, when he got that chance to shoot and he side footed it, near post, top corner. I thought at the time all that must have ran through his mind was "hit the target, just hit the target" whereas the more experienced Assaidi in the same position against Young Boys (sure, it wasnīt manchester united but still) tried to blast it into the far corner and almost did just that. Assaidi wasnīt afraid to miss as he knows he will get other chances whereas with Sterling and Suso perhaps in their minds they are afraid of missing a chance and worry it could be their last. The Sterling chance you refer to was purely instinct. When they have time to make a decision itīs then that they choose either placement over power or simply pass the ball off to someone more experienced.

I think the more trust Brendan puts in the young players then this part of their game will come. I would loved to have seen Suso put his laces through that into the opposite corner ala Suarez v Norwich last year with his right.

[royhendo]

One thing I should add is that this was written right on the final whistle. It since emerged, of course, that things went on after the final whistle on the part of the fans. It's been interesting to see how that's been reported, too. Some outlets, most notably the Beeb, have effectively airbrushed that out of existence. We shouldn't do that here.

The stakes placed in the moral high ground at the start of the game were later let down, I'd argue, by quite a few. But very few have picked up on that hypocrisy.

[WOOLTONIAN]

Strange one for me, I welled up before the game and sadly couldn't concentrate on any of the football that followed.
Nothing to report on here down South, all well behaved before during and after the game.

[smicer07]

1. Halsey was crap and lost us the game. Never seen a more inept refereeing display. Once you get a red card against a top team and you're not a few goals clear, you're always up against it.
2. We could have been 2 up before the red card. Again our lack of clinical play/men in the box is putting pressure on the rest of the team.
3. Our fans were excellent. The less said about theirs the better. Couldn't even respect the families just for 90 minutes.

[Cruiser]

On the question of Halsey I think Suarez's penalty was dismissed moreso because of his theatrics. It was a split second decision and while Luis did just win the ball, it was made clear to many courtesy of TV replays using the zoom in function. The ref didn't have that and Luis jerking his body backwards would make the ref dismiss it instantly. In fact seeing it in realtime it doesn't bode well with Luis.

He isn't helping himself and this is having a ricochet effect across the country with referees and could cost us genuine penalties because hes gone to ground too easily. Many of you may not like that but thats the way its looking to me.

On the whole we played brilliantly and made Utd look average, even when down to 10 men. My only gripe with Rodgers is bringing on Suso instead of Sahin. I can perfectly understand why he brought on a hugley talented and fearless teenager who did play well, but in a game of this magnitude I think Sahin would have been the better option IMO.

[jckliew]

Just to add a freezeframe of the red card decision.... that is a shocker from Halsey who as you can see had a perfect view of evans and still got it completely wrong.

Hummmmm

Two feet vs One feet, guess who got sent off?   ??

[Kate_LFC_SFC]

Refereeing decisions and end score apart, I thought it was a great performance from Liverpool.

The movement in the final third was pleasing and we dominated the midfield. For the first 40mins RVP and Kagawa barely got a touch of the ball and Sterling was looking dangerous. Of course the red card changed the nature of the battle ... On first look I said 'ah shit Shelvey's off' but replays showed he was less at fault then Evans.

Afterwards Liverpool needed some time to adjust and Kagawa got in between the lines but the change to a diamond was effective. Suso did well off the bench too but he played a part in Rafael's equaliser. Obviously Gerrard was outstanding, as was Johnson.

This is going to be too long to go into too much depth, but I have done an indepth tactical analysis of the performance here >>
https://katecohensoccer.wordpress.com/2012/09/24/post-match-analysis-premier-league-liverpool-vs-manchester-united/

I would love some feedback :-) :-)

We can definitely take some more positives from this performance, let's hope the points come soon!!

[Resurrected]

One thing I should add is that this was written right on the final whistle. It since emerged, of course, that things went on after the final whistle on the part of the fans. It's been interesting to see how that's been reported, too. Some outlets, most notably the Beeb, have effectively airbrushed that out of existence. We shouldn't do that here.

The stakes placed in the moral high ground at the start of the game were later let down, I'd argue, by quite a few. But very few have picked up on that hypocrisy.

I watched the game online while i was at work (cushy job). The site i watched the game on has a fans chat box and the overall banter with the mancs was quite good. However, there were a few who were being very disrespectful and offensive. To be fair, these were very much the minority and were being told to do one by both sets of fans, which i found quite pleasing.

It's very easy to act like a blert in front on a computer screen and with the anonymity that the internet offers, but as i said, it was pleasing that both sets of supporters showed a genuine respect for the occasion. Can't say that i've heard anything other than rumour about the events after the game, but anyone who gets off on rejoicing at others misfortune has got severe problems in their own life, whether that be about Hillsborough or Munich.

[Phil M]

One thing I should add is that this was written right on the final whistle. It since emerged, of course, that things went on after the final whistle on the part of the fans. It's been interesting to see how that's been reported, too. Some outlets, most notably the Beeb, have effectively airbrushed that out of existence. We shouldn't do that here.

The stakes placed in the moral high ground at the start of the game were later let down, I'd argue, by quite a few. But very few have picked up on that hypocrisy.

Lawton:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/james-lawton-red-roses-and-balloons-charlton-and-rush--but-old-hatreds-refuse-to-die-8166653.html

[Veinticinco de Mayo]

Another good performance without reward.  This season was always going to be transitional and it has been a torrid start and it looks as though our paper thin squad is soon to be further weakened by another rash of injuries sustained yesterday.  The silver lining to this is the performance of the youngsters.  There is a potential outcome here where we have a difficult and unsuccessful season but finish it with a much stronger squad than we started with because a lot of kids have stepped up to the plate and shown that they have what it takes to compete at first team level.

[Upinsmoke]

Gutted, absolutely gutted.

Not alot more to say. Such an emotional day, all that had been spoken, the families, the handshake, the chants, in the end Mr Mark Halsey wanted to grab the attention. To cheat, to vear from your duty as a ref, to act without integrity and honesty leaves me fucking fuming. The man cheated, he conspired to lose us the game.

We fucking battered them. Usually i would go through the team, players, managers, tactics etc but there isn't no point for me this time round.

[scraz]

Overall I thought the gestures and the atmosphere was extremely respectful to the families of the 96 that died. The club should be proud of that

[stevied]

Always thought we could potentially end up in the bottom 3 when the fixtures were laid out in June by the end of September, i have seen enough to suggest October will be far easier on the eye, just need to start winning and Norwich away will be that, thought we played well in large parts of yesterday, should have, could have, move on

[Ski]

will add a more detailed analysis later but genuinely want to ask as I can't think myself - When was the last time any of us walked away after a game thinking - "Wow, we really got away with it there".

I mean specifically that the big (and often borderline) decisions went our way and the result was directly influenced by those big decisions?

Am really struggling to remember the last time this happened.

[T.Mills]

Just to add a freezeframe of the red card decision.... that is a shocker from Halsey who as you can see had a perfect view of evans and still got it completely wrong.

Joke of a decision.

Wouldn't mind seeing a freeze frame of the Gerrard tackle a few seasons back in the FA cup tie (I believe he got sent off for it). I'm pretty sure it was identicle to the Evans one.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Is Suarez a problem? He can't seem to lay a ball off to a team mate.

I think that Suarez is so unpredictable that he doesn't even know what he is going to do next, let alone his team-mates.

I would like to see him given a 'free-role' like McManaman used to play and use a more orthodox centre forward like Borini in the middle.

Well, what can you say?
Should he have been benched instead of Sterling when Henderson came on?

I can see the benefits in keeping Suarez on the pitch - he is the most likely player to score a goal from nothing or create one for himself.

Did Suso grab his big chance?

Difficult for me to say I was so angry with what had gone on before that I was watching the second half through a mist. From what I saw he did well and had a hand in our goal but I believe he misplaced the pass that lead to their 'penalty' so pretty mixed really.

I think we will all agree it is great to see the likes of Suso and Sterling getting their chances though.

Was the performance of our 10 testament to good work on the training ground?

Hmm - I like Rodger's and I am enjoying watching us play so I am taking every opportunity to give the man some credit, but I feel our performance with 10-men was just as much due to a) who the opposition was b) how poor the opposition was.

Were the goals preventable?

Well I think the 'penalty' was soft so easily avoidable if the ref doesn't give it. The first one is great finish but it was slightly disappointing to see three players run towards the player with the ball and leave Rafael free in the box.

Was Halsey the big difference in a way? Yes, Jonjo made it possible for him, but where was the consistency?

Of course!! If Shelvey was a red then so was Evans. I read in the post match thread from someone that Halsey may have been concerned about looking to favour us because of the occasion so by trying to look fair he actually sided with United on the big calls - might be some element of truth in this.

And, of course, most important of all, did the event do justice to the families and to the game in general? (It's easy to forget the context - thanks Mark Halsey.)

I thought the tributes from the managers, players and spectators before the match was very poignant and touching. 

[JohnnoWhite]

Have posted my views in the match result thread - and was about to reply to some tetchy post whn I was informed the thread had been locked. Suffice to say that :-
I watched only the 1st half - plane to catch at 4.00. Unimpressed with my lot. Disjointed, out of sorts set-up - and could have been out of the game if Suarez had spotted Gerrard free in the box instead of going for an impossible glory cross-shot when mayhem ruled the United box.

Thought that Shelvey's behaviour was wreckless and he had already been warned by Halsey early doors. He didn't heed that warning though and looked out of his own self-control zone. I'm not saying Evans was lily-white - 6 of 1 half a dozen of another - but Shelvey should have been awake to fact that the ref had already "noticed" him from the Rafael tackle. Had he made a different decision at that point of chasing that loose ball following on his challenge on Giggs, I believe that Liverpool would likely have won that game. They were for sure the better of the two sides throughout that first half.

There were encouraging signs that your side are showing signs of starting to gel. Ours on the other hand were shite.

The less said about all the public gobbing off done in today's game by today's players the better I think.

The rule should be very simple - even for footballers to follow - Shut up and always let your football do your talking. Bill would have said something to that effect I think.

[mysterio_86]

Just to add a freezeframe of the red card decision.... that is a shocker from Halsey who as you can see had a perfect view of evans and still got it completely wrong.

Its all because that c*nt Evans rolled around and Shelvey acted as a man and dint go for theatrics ! Had Shelvey rolled around for a while I can bet yellow would have been the worst outcome ! This is why I hate English hypocrisy - a kid dint go for theatrics like some of his English colleagues aka Young, Welbeck, Rooney et al, he gets punished yet the morons get rewarded by penalties n free kicks ! and the thing is its not just one referee - whole bunch of them are fucking morons leading the pack are Webb, Atkinson, Dowd, Dean and latest this Halsey prick.

Anyways -

The way we controlled the game from 1st sec to end of game was too good to fucking care about pricks from Manchester and FA. It was at time just blissfully beautiful, even after 10 men we were like too cool for school. and full credit to Rodgers for the courage and faith he has shown in some of the youngsters.

Suso was breathe of fresh air just like Sterling - refreshing
Borini and Suarez - impressive.
Allen and Gerrard - cohesive.
Shelvey - aggresive
Skrtel & Kelly - decisive
Johnson - creative

I have zero expectation for this season and believe me I am enjoying this team and their performances. The results are going to come just in time - just wait n see.

-Let this team built their game and style without pressure for this season and lets put the load on expectations on their shoulders from next season onwards ?

-Let the kids feel happy for the present and expect top 4 next season ?

-Let Brendan sort out all his area of concern this season and expect title challenge next season ?

My expectations from Rodgers in January Transfer Window -

One Left Back
One new Mascherano to free up Joe Allen
Dont buy Llorentte or Walcott ! David Villa I would say Yes else BUY no cheap strikers.

2013 Summer Transfer Window -

Get atleast two proper strikers

[Armand9]

Top performance by the lads at 11 and 10 men, best team lost and the ref's decisions fucked us over, ultimately that's what lost us the game. If you'd given me a choice of ref before the game i'd happily have had Halsey, he's usually a good ref (for this kind of game particularly). I don't believe for one minute he cheated but he did have a poor day with the big decisions and they alll went utd's way.

As gutting as it is how we lost that game, there's so many positives from that performance and few negatives, the only outstanding one is that again we didn't help ourselves with not making the most of good opportunities. If we repeat that kind of performance against lesser teams the points will build rapidly.

[TheCharlatan]

Is Suarez a problem? He can't seem to lay a ball off to a team mate.

A player with the array of Suarez's abilities will always have a "selfish" side to him. It is that ego and self-belief that enables him to nutmeg 3 or 4 players a game and occasionally produce some of the best football in this league. However, it is imperative that he learns he is not the only one on the pitch and that even he can't (and frankly should not be expected to) play without his ten other teammates. The best forward-thinking players in history all learned to balance that selfishness and synergy.

Should he have been benched instead of Sterling when Henderson came on?

I don't think so. I think it was a mistake to revert to what looks like a 4-3-1-1 to accommodate Suso in the hole and get him closer to Suarez which allowed our opponents too much width. Both goals came down their right hand side when Rafael was allowed to take a leisurely stroll in our box and then when Valencia was given that dubious penalty. At that stage in the game it still looked like we were in it so I wouldn't have taken Suarez off as he is undoubtedly our most valuable attacking outlet and focal point.

Did Suso grab his big chance?

Yes. He played fantastically in one of the biggest derbies in world football and did so in lieu of some of our more senior yet under-performing players. No doubt this lad needs to sign a new contract.

Was the performance of our 10 testament to good work on the training ground?

Absolutely. Despite the loss and subsequent disgraceful behavior of certain fans, I think there is a multitude of positives to take out of Sunday. The main thing as far as I'm concerned is our response to adversity. By the time Scholes came on I think we had nearly 70% possession and had scored through our captain despite the odds. If only we showed this attitude against West Brom or Arsenal, we may have more to show than our meagre two points.

Were the goals preventable?

Rafael's goal was preventable, it was a lapse of concentration and poor defending that made it happen. As for Van Persie's penalty, those sort of goals aren't preventable unless you have competent and consistent officiating. I always question why there is such a debate about goal line technology and the like when the men we entrust continue to display an incessant lack of consistency. Surely the latter is the more pressing matter?

Was Halsey the big difference in a way? Yes, Jonjo made it possible for him, but where was the consistency?

Yes he was. Over the years Ferguson has drilled his team to behave in a manner which wins them penalties by having them constantly pressure the officials. Even the Great Imbiber does it himself, hence Jonjo's outburst. The onus is on the referee to make impartial decisions and disregard any protests or suggestions made to him, and he bottled it big time. I maintain that Suarez did not deserve a penalty but Valencia's claim was just as soft. In the 50/50 which led to the sending off, it is clear that Evans went in two footed whereas Shelvey's hanging left leg only made contact with him after the ball was touched, which at normal speed would be a little hard to assess. What is not hard to tell was that Evans' challenge was just as reckless if not moreso.
Naturally, being indoctrinated by Mr. Ferguson's unattained dream of being in theatre Evans made the most of it, where Shelvey wanted to carry on playing football.
 

And, of course, most important of all, did the event do justice to the families and to the game in general? (It's easy to forget the context - thanks Mark Halsey.)

The tribute at the beginning was fantastic and you could tell emotion saturated the pitch on that day. You could almost see Jon-Paul's cherubic grin in Gerrard's eyes as he lifted his head and pointed to the sky after scoring. It's a shame that a few unsavoury individuals spoiled it because that's how they get their kicks but their "singing" is merely a whimper next to the universal uproar and solidarity our vindication has caused since we were proved right.

[FlashingBlade]

Thought we played well overall against tough opposition , but thankfully we dont have to play Halsey every week!..as for United pretty averge for most of the game, which just makes the result even more frustraiting.

One thing I took from the game is that whilst all my concerns have been about lack of goalscoring, the fact is we have scored enough goals..to beat United , City and Sunderland...what is really undoing us is some sloppy defending , often before the ball reaches the penalty area..if we are limited in the number of goals we are going to score in forth coming games we must tighten up in our defensive play. No matter how well we play, sloppy defending , even if only a few times a game and the lack of goals is a lethal combination.

[steveeastend]

Is Suarez a problem? He can't seem to lay a ball off to a team mate.

I donīt think Suarez is a problem at all. He just needs a top striker besides him to make use of the spaces he creates for others and giving him more choices to pass the ball around even more within and around the box. I think itīs a squad problem, Suarez is very important on the pitch to be around, even if he has an off day. Passing the ball isnīt his strength, thatīs right, a little bit like Torres, but his qualities are top, which makes him a constant danger and giving the defenders something to think about for the entire game. He tires the defense and as I said, we just cannot make use of it as we unfortunately lacking a top striker for far too long.

Did Suso grab his big chance?

Definitely. His movement and passing was outstanding considering his age and the importance of the game. His head is always up, he is able to go for a difficult pass because of being talented enough to stay calm on the ball no matter the pressure. I donīt want to be overly optimistic after one game but what Iīve seen from him in this game was very impressive, I think he could be the attacking midfielder we have been waiting for. (but didnīt get in transfers).

Was the performance of our 10 testament to good work on the training ground?

Yes, and what a testament it was. Absolutely outstanding work from Rodgers and the players so far. The tactical set up is just amazing to watch and honestly, as much as I hoped this to be happening, I really didnīt expect it. There is room for improvement of course, especially the concentration in defending for playing a game like ours isnīt there yet and I think itīs mostly this, the lack of having the ability to keep up to concentration when playing such a high defending line which cost us, also yesterday. Hats off to Rodgers and his team and the guts of the players to follow his vision, it will take some time for the players to know exactly what to do in every game situation, until then we probably need more luck than we had yesterday.

Was Halsey the big difference in a way? Yes, Jonjo made it possible for him, but where was the consistency?

To me, the ref was a disgrace to the game of football, sorry.

And, of course, most important of all, did the event do justice to the families and to the game in general? (It's easy to forget the context - thanks Mark Halsey.)

Originally I didnīwant to write anything on this out of respect. But to be honest, I was a little shocked on the behavour and the way the games was played. As Neville pointed it out, you donīt want to have a player sent off in a game like that. You expect some sort of very, very friendly atmosphere and I would think this to be normal human behaviour considering the circumstances, even in a game with this rivalery. As I said, I donīt wanna to go on too much about this out of respect but to say it with Shelvey... where I am coming from people/visitors show nothing but respect on a day like this considering the circumstances. And I was a little shocked to see how this went on after this absolutely wonderful and moving ceremony and the gestures prior the game, which were just oustanding and important!

[benitezthered]

it was pleasing that both sets of supporters showed a genuine respect for the occasion.

Disagree. Whilst I have no problem with them singing during YNWA, I first heard them reference Munich after 23 mins. And that's with a Munich survivor in Bobby Charlton in the stands.

I don't know if a minority of Liverpool fans made airplane gestures at the end of the game, but I didn't see it, and haven't seen any evidence of it other than anecdotes coming from Man Utd fans. However the whole world can see the proof of the vile songs they sung at the end - and that was not a minority. If I was the club, I would be looking to identify who was singing it via CCTV and have them banned.

Regarding the game - we were unlucky, and Halsey was abysmal, although we didn't make things easy for ourselves. Skrtel/Agger should have took Valencia out on the half way line, and we must start scoring when we're on top. There haven't been many games over the last 2 years when we've been outplayed; we just don't have that killer instinct in front of goal.

All in all a disappointing day, and there's going to be big pressure on the Norwich game now, but we're not playing badly and some of our players are getting better every single week. Give it time, keep faith and in a couple of years this is the kind of game we can look back on and reflect how far we've come.

[Crosby Nick]

I mentioned this in another thread yesterday but this season reminds me of some of the tough times in the early 90’s. Partly through injuries, partly because they offer more than some of the more established players we have seen the emergence this year of some great youngsters (I know they’e all been on the radar for a while, but in terms of first team minutes). For Fowler, Mcmamanan, Hutchison, Marsh read Sterling, Suso, Wisdom, Shelvey...There will be further short term pain along the way but this experience can only benefit Sterling, Suso, soon Wisdom, Coates etc. It will take a while but I have absolute faith in what Rodgers is doing. Unfortunately this season is going to be a struggle up to January and maybe beyond but yesterday was a further indication of the progress we’re making.

That’s why the self inflicted injuries (literally in yesterday’s case!) are so hard to take because there’s the makings of a very good football team in here.

[benitezthered]

David Villa I would say Yes else BUY no cheap strikers.

I'm curious to know how we go about attracting David Villa...

[TheCharlatan]

I'm curious to know how we go about attracting David Villa...

We can get Enrique to take his shirt off and flex his pecs alternately in a rythmic sequence to the ketchup song

[benitezthered]

We can get Enrique to take his shirt off and flex his pecs alternately in a rythmic sequence to the ketchup song

That seems fair. No need to get Big Th'andy back from West Ham then.

[edmundljs]

will add a more detailed analysis later but genuinely want to ask as I can't think myself - When was the last time any of us walked away after a game thinking - "Wow, we really got away with it there".

I mean specifically that the big (and often borderline) decisions went our way and the result was directly influenced by those big decisions?

Am really struggling to remember the last time this happened.

I think the most recent matches I have a bit of those feelings were due to the own goals from the opponents, mainly at Hearts and more recently at Young Boys (which settled the nerves slightly for the youngsters). Otherwise, referee decisions did not work in our favour. I guess you win some and you lose some.

[andyrol]

before the problems we seem to have with refs this season we need to find out whoever it was that messed up deadline day leaving us woefully short in the attacking department. we will struggle until january simply because we have no presence in the box, yes at times the way we are now starting to play will mean we dont miss this presence as much as at others but a proper centre forward would have both given the united defenders something else to think about and could have been on the end of the many times we put the ball across the six yard box.  i cant remember another game where the ref has leaned so heavily towards one side before, the catalogue of bad decisions is staggering for one match- ferdinand foul on agger, evra foul on sterling that should have been a yellow, the shelvey incident, suarez 'penalty' and the following rash lunge by scholes ( ive seen many times refs not give the first foul but when a player dives in again even if theres less contact than the first they then give a pen), the van persie two footed lunge, the valencia 'fall' penalty, the suarez foul but play on decision, the 5 minutes added time when agger was down 4 and a half minutes and we'd had two goals and a couple of other stoppages.  this all makes about 9 decisions that went for man united. cant remember this happening before.   as to our play the best thing i can say is that brendan got his first chant of the season (at home anyway) this was testament to how we played and the direction everyone can see we are heading.

[Flaccid Bobby Fowler]

1: We were great to watch, even with ten men we were good for it.starting to see rodgers influence more and more.
2: Utd were not very good at all, infact id say they were boderline absolute shite untill scholes came on-they
3: The ref ruined it which was not something i thought would happen with halsley as i thought he was one of the better ones. Was never a red,  yellow yes for both players, never a pen.the pen is an absolute joke of a decision. Think the occasion got to him to be honest!
4: Maybe controversial but i thought suarez should have been subbed, with sterling moved more central-he didnt look tired to me and his pace would have pushed a dominant at the time utd back that 5/10 yards, hed of also been able to run at them but i iunderstand that it would have been a bold move.
5: The utd fans are a bunch of vile fukn knackers. especially with the shite they pulled after the game-total wankers of the highest degree. pure filth.