Author Topic: Jürgen Klopp  (Read 957735 times)

Offline JackWard33

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1000 on: January 27, 2020, 12:03:08 pm »
I don't think it we're holding a grudge against FA - this goes much deeper. It's just a consequence of the fact that there are way too many games, and that the importance of the domestic cups has dropped steadily over several decades. Liverpool and Klopp have to prioritize, and that's why we're playing kids and sending the rest off on holidays.

FA has done nothing to reduce the number of games or make the cups more attractive. I mean, the whole concept of replays is bizarre.

Yup and clearly this is a fight Klopp wants to have.
Others are arguing we could play some first teamers that needs minutes etc and we obviously could but Klopp has wanted this fight/conversation for a while now and is making a point.
You can’t blame him either, its just not realistic to expect elite athletes And staff to be at a year round peak either physically or emotionally ... and there’s no real need for it.

Offline DonkeyWan

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1001 on: January 27, 2020, 12:03:24 pm »
So, not wanting to kick start another argument, but having missed the earlier discussions; I can accept a break for the first team, I can accept Klopp needs a break as well, and it is a good opportunity for some of the kids, but surely there are some senior players who would welcome the extra minutes after all the injuries and delays have left them sidelined all season? And would it not be good for some to get minutes to get up to speed asap for the league season ahead? What's the argument contradicting that point?
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Offline jepovic

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1002 on: January 27, 2020, 12:03:40 pm »
Pretty much my view. If the strategy is to make a very important point about the winter break then I am not sure this is the way to do it. I don`t get not playing players who, for at least some of them, haven't played in a few months. They need game time and this seems like a good opportunity.

None of this means that I am not 100% behind the best thing that has happened to our club for a long time. It is just trying to understand the logic of the decision.

Of course I still think we will win the replay.
I trust Klopp and his team. If he thinks the players do best with a break, he'll give them a break. The players that need a game will play. So, probably roughly the same team.

Offline gkmacca

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1003 on: January 27, 2020, 12:04:07 pm »
Replays have always been a big part of the Fa Cup tbf.

Yes, but now winter breaks are a part of the PL, too. It's not for clubs to cover over the incoherence.

Offline kloppismydad

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1004 on: January 27, 2020, 12:04:39 pm »
The only complaint I have, at a stretch, will be how Klopp communicated his thoughts and the message. I think we would have been much better off with just fielding a U-23 team in the match instead of mentioning it days beforehand. Jurgen could also have pulled off a sickie. :D

But his open "rebellious" message is to drive home the point about how pointless the replays are, the lack of communication/clarity between the FA and PL so I think he did the right thing in being open.

EDIT: Scenes when we see Jurgen on the touch-line and a full strength Liverpool XI in the replay. :lmao
« Last Edit: January 27, 2020, 12:08:19 pm by kloppismydad »
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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1005 on: January 27, 2020, 12:04:48 pm »
For me, he's leading.

He's lead the group and club magnificently already and now he's leading what he, and other managers, sees as a legitimate fight against ridiculous, disorganised, non-communicated fixture scheduling from multiple organisations. He took the stance in the league Cup, and now he's doing the same here.

Unfortunately, he's unlikely to get much buy in from other managers - not many of them are a) in the same situation or b) in a secure enough position to potentially sacrifice a 5th round spot.

A weird reference, but it reminds me of the West Wing when Bartlett refuses to deal with the republicans and the government is shut down. He knows he's in the right and he's tired of the players being persistently shafted in terms of rest and recovery. He'll take the abuse and hope it actually causes the English authorities to get their shit together, sit down, talk, and plan out a season of football that doesn't ignore the players wellbeing.

The man deserves the support of every one of his club's supporters, in my view.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1006 on: January 27, 2020, 12:04:49 pm »
With the squads these days a winter break was not needed at such a crucial time of the season.

Those who work in football and close to the fitness of these squads disagree.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1007 on: January 27, 2020, 12:06:13 pm »
Hopefully the FA see sense and put the replay back a week. Maybe that's what Klopp is hoping.  This will make a complete mockery of their competition.
They cant bring it back a week that's this week , they cant take it forward a week as that is still within the winter break , they cant put it forward two weeks as we have Atletico
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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1008 on: January 27, 2020, 12:06:28 pm »
Klopp's sending a message here.  If we start to compromise the winter "break" by playing matches during it, then we softly decay the concept of a break, rather than reinforce it.  So imagine the first year of a winter break Liverpool have a match in the middle of it.   Klopp knows the approach to winter breaks well from Germany.  He knows the benefits of it and also the challenges of it.  So he is bringing a very strong and clear decision.  We need to keep a winter break as just that, a break.  This year and every year.
The FA cup has also been diluted since Premier League started, Champions League got bigger and more sponsored etc.  Again looking at Germany, their FA cup (Pokal) is a nice tournament to win, but doesn't sit with Domestic League and CL at all.  The FA cup is still a nice day out in the final, but when I was young (many moons ago) it was a big big event.  One of the few live games on TV in those days, so it isn't what it was back then.  The landscape of the game has changed. 
When FSG give Klopp his priorities for the year, You kind of know the FA cup isn't in the primary goals for the year conversation.  Times have changed.
I forget the precise number now but I'm sure that there's been at least two managers at big clubs fired after winning the FA Cup.

It's just not rated any longer.

Offline jepovic

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1009 on: January 27, 2020, 12:07:50 pm »
Yup and clearly this is a fight Klopp wants to have.
Others are arguing we could play some first teamers that needs minutes etc and we obviously could but Klopp has wanted this fight/conversation for a while now and is making a point.
You can’t blame him either, its just not realistic to expect elite athletes And staff to be at a year round peak either physically or emotionally ... and there’s no real need for it.
Yup, and this is all completely preventable. FA could have scrapped the league cup or turned it into an official U21 cup or something, and removed the ridiculous replays. Then the FA cup would have been much more manageable.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1010 on: January 27, 2020, 12:08:36 pm »
I trust Klopp and his team. If he thinks the players do best with a break, he'll give them a break. The players that need a game will play. So, probably roughly the same team.

I think you may well be right. He has made his point, but will do what is best for the club and that may well involve some of the more senior players who require game time. We will see.
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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1011 on: January 27, 2020, 12:10:08 pm »
Apologies if we’re not to discuss this any further, I’ve not had a chance to catch up with the thread. As Donkey says, there must be some senior players that require minutes and IMO they will be better suited to playing. Shaq, Naby and the two returning CB’s will benefit from the minutes. I had the feeling Klopp speaking straight after the final whistle would have been pissed off and maybe didnt quite mean the entire senior squad will be off on a break. Whatever Klopp decides we support, fuck what the fickle media and these attention seeking twats have to say on Twitter. His presser tomorrow will certainly be interesting.
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Offline jepovic

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1012 on: January 27, 2020, 12:10:37 pm »
I think you may well be right. He has made his point, but will do what is best for the club and that may well involve some of the more senior players who require game time. We will see.
Exactly. He will do everything to win PL and CL (in that order).
If fielding senior players in the domestic cups supports these goals, he will do it.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1013 on: January 27, 2020, 12:11:01 pm »
So, not wanting to kick start another argument, but having missed the earlier discussions; I can accept a break for the first team, I can accept Klopp needs a break as well, and it is a good opportunity for some of the kids, but surely there are some senior players who would welcome the extra minutes after all the injuries and delays have left them sidelined all season? And would it not be good for some to get minutes to get up to speed asap for the league season ahead? What's the argument contradicting that point?

Maybe he'll say to them if they want to cancel their holiday plans with their wives and kids or plans to visit parents/family in their homeland, and instead come into Melwood to train with the U23s and then play against Shrewsbury, and then just have a few days off, then they are more than welcome too.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1014 on: January 27, 2020, 12:12:09 pm »
1. Scrap the league cup for PL teams in Europe.
2. Scrap cup replays.
3. Make the FA cup seeded in the first round where the PL sides come in, so smaller sides get a better chance at a primo tie.
4. Have the lower league side as the home team in the first round the PL sides come in (and even in later rounds if they are in a league below the Championship).

And then guess what - the loud giant German will stop complaining, and will take the cup seriously.

I'm not sure how any of that would make Klopp take it more seriously other than potentially number two, which they have done from the 5th round anyway.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1015 on: January 27, 2020, 12:12:23 pm »
Without question Klopp has been fantastic, and it's more questioning this decision not him per say. I get that the league and CL is a priority. I just don't get this decision. It smacks of elitism and arrogance.

Why does the manager need to jet off for a holiday as well...

Fuck me there's some right bollocks being written in here. You're probably right though. Why should the man who's won number six, the Super Cup and Club World Cup. Who is probably going to win us the league after 30 years and is breaking records left right and center...

Why the fuck should he have a holiday?
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Offline CraigDS

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1016 on: January 27, 2020, 12:14:15 pm »
Fuck me there's some right bollocks being written in here. You're probably right though. Why should the man who's won number six, the Super Cup and Club World Cup. Who is probably going to win us the league after 30 years and is breaking records left right and center...

Why the fuck should he have a holiday?

Bet he does no work. He's got like 3 coaches working directly under him and only stands up for 90 mins during games - not like he even runs up and down the touch line.

Part timer Klopp!

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1017 on: January 27, 2020, 12:14:42 pm »
Maybe he'll say to them if they want to cancel their holiday plans with their wives and kids or plans to visit parents/family in their homeland, and instead come into Melwood to train with the U23s and then play against Shrewsbury, and then just have a few days off, then they are more than welcome too.

More likely he'll say that the winter break is for all of the first team and it's not up to the players.
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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1018 on: January 27, 2020, 12:16:07 pm »
Considering the efforts they've put in over the last few months, Klopp and the squad can spend a week in Ibiza for all I care. Finish the league strongly and have a good go at retaining the Champions League. What I would say, is that the replay might actually be a good chance for Fabinho, Matip, Lovren to get some match fitness. I know being injured is not the same as having a rest but they've spent a couple of months on the sidelines and now they need to be on the pitch getting back up to speed, because one injury to Virgil/Gomez and they're right back in the thick of it. All three of them looked horribly off the pace yesterday and we need to be able to rely on them.

I do like the FA Cup, and while there's still a chance of a treble then I want to win it, but If Klopp thinks that the rest will benefit us in the long run then I'm happy. Mane's muscle injury was a sign that some fatigue may be creeping in.

Offline Coolie High

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1019 on: January 27, 2020, 12:16:30 pm »
We’re not in the position to be looking down on cups like FA Cup, especially with the respect showed to the FIFA Club World Cup, the Fa Cup is the 3rd biggest cup in Europe and part of a treble we have yet to ever complete(Pl,CL,FA) we should try winning all three, out squad is big enough, there are quality player who won’t even make the match day squad if everyone is fit.

Offline DonkeyWan

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1020 on: January 27, 2020, 12:16:36 pm »
Maybe he'll say to them if they want to cancel their holiday plans with their wives and kids or plans to visit parents/family in their homeland, and instead come into Melwood to train with the U23s and then play against Shrewsbury, and then just have a few days off, then they are more than welcome too.
I can see that being frustrating, but in a short career and amazing season it would be a bit meh to knock a potential treble on the head for a week's sunbathing in Dubai. I reckon the players would be reluctant themselves to do that. Anyway, don't want to kickstart an argument about it, just wanted to hear any valid rationals (which, admittedly, yours was, so fair play).
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Offline gkmacca

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1021 on: January 27, 2020, 12:17:01 pm »
The useful idiot that is Andy Holt is still at it: 'The funny thing is everyone’s calling the @FA for scheduling issues and replays between @LFC and @shrewsweb when if they’d had the balls to stand up to them and denied a break in the first place, all would be ok'. Yes, no winter break and all would be okay. Hopefully LFC don't play any friendlies with Accrington for a while after this whopper's outbursts. Maybe he can get some cash from his wonderful FA instead.


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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1022 on: January 27, 2020, 12:17:42 pm »
West Ham match preview required pronto!

Up the reds  :champ :scarf :scarf :champ :scarf :scarf

Isn't it just...and God help the fellas in the pre match presser, don't think Klopp will be his usual all smiley self. It will take one gutsy bastard to mention the words FA Cup, replay or beach holidays!
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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1023 on: January 27, 2020, 12:18:49 pm »
We’re not in the position to be looking down on cups like FA Cup, especially with the respect showed to the FIFA Club World Cup, the Fa Cup is the 3rd biggest cup in Europe and part of a treble we have yet to ever complete(Pl,CL,FA) we should try winning all three, out squad is big enough, there are quality player who won’t even make the match day squad if everyone is fit.

Perhaps he can still play some more senior players and still give them a 2 week break after the game ? That way everyone gets their 2 week break.
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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1024 on: January 27, 2020, 12:19:34 pm »
Everyone moaning about this should have their leave cancelled with immediate effect.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1025 on: January 27, 2020, 12:20:43 pm »
Fuck me there's some right bollocks being written in here. You're probably right though. Why should the man who's won number six, the Super Cup and Club World Cup. Who is probably going to win us the league after 30 years and is breaking records left right and center...

Why the fuck should he have a holiday?

They're all doing my fucking head in, I locked the other thread cos of this bollocks but I can't be bothered reading it all again.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1026 on: January 27, 2020, 12:21:14 pm »
We’re not in the position to be looking down on cups like FA Cup, especially with the respect showed to the FIFA Club World Cup, the Fa Cup is the 3rd biggest cup in Europe and part of a treble we have yet to ever complete(Pl,CL,FA) we should try winning all three, out squad is big enough, there are quality player who won’t even make the match day squad if everyone is fit.

He's not looking down on the FA Cup.

He's taking a stand against disorganised fixture scheduling that doesn't care for or take into account the players wellbeing.

He's been, rightly, itching for this fight since day one of the season. I've lost count of the amount of passionate arguments he's made in press conferences. We've seen he's not fucking about with the league Cup/cwc issue and his reasoning for that was clear. They'd raised the issue early, they knew they'd be going to Qatar before they knew they'd have a LC quarter final, and it's not the clubs (any clubs) responsibility to organise fixtures.

This is precisely the same. Winter break confirmed pre-season with clear instruction to respect it. Another organisation doesn't take this into account, nor respects the reason for the break.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1027 on: January 27, 2020, 12:22:47 pm »
Perhaps he can still play some more senior players and still give them a 2 week break after the game ? That way everyone gets their 2 week break.
Klopp will feed them the club line 'LFC management and ownership are adhering to rules that forbid first team players playing competitive football during the two week break, please ask the FA why they have scheduled a game during this time' Next question. 

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1028 on: January 27, 2020, 12:24:00 pm »
More likely he'll say that the winter break is for all of the first team and it's not up to the players.

Do you think players like Keita, Shaqiri, Matip, Lovren, Lallana, Fabinho need a winter break?

Are you a little concerned - especially after last night - at the prospect of any of these players going in 'cold' to play against, say, Burnley or Villa in the Premier League when we get back from hols?   
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Offline DonkeyWan

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1029 on: January 27, 2020, 12:24:36 pm »
There is one point I would like to make here, and it may not be the place for it, but it does have bearing on the discussion; Just because the top 6 or so don't rate the cup(s) doesn't mean the rest of the league think the same way. The further down the divisions, the more important both cups become. It does not reflect well on Liverpool fans to disparage the cup(s) simply because they have eyes on bigger prizes. You want to know how important the cup still is? Ask Shrewsbury this morning. Ask the fans who invaded the pitch after a draw... I think it's fine for Liverpool fans to say "the domestic cup(s) are not our priority" but not ok to say the cups have little intrinsic value.
Beatings will continue until morale improves...

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1030 on: January 27, 2020, 12:25:18 pm »
Do you think players like Keita, Shaqiri, Matip, Lovren, Lallana, Fabinho need a winter break?

Are you a little concerned - especially after last night - at the prospect of any of these players going in 'cold' to play against, say, Burnley or Villa in the Premier League when we get back from hols?

No.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1031 on: January 27, 2020, 12:25:47 pm »
Personally, couldn’t give a fuck what Klopp does aslong as we win the league this season.

Rather end a 30 year wait than pander to the FA.

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1032 on: January 27, 2020, 12:25:52 pm »
Do you think players like Keita, Shaqiri, Matip, Lovren, Lallana, Fabinho need a winter break?

Are you a little concerned - especially after last night - at the prospect of any of these players going in 'cold' to play against, say, Burnley or Villa in the Premier League when we get back from hols?
They won't go in 'cold' 'cos they're likely not scheduled to play those games.

Oh, and your annual leave is hereby cancelled. [emoji3]

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1033 on: January 27, 2020, 12:26:00 pm »
I can't believe the snide comments regarding Jurgen. It is very simple having a winter break gives you an advantage towards the end of the season. You only have to look at the way players who have a winter break play in tournaments compared to players who don't. So why should Klopp give our competitors an advantage. Why go into Champions League games having deliberately worsened your chances of winning against teams that have had a winter break.

IF Klopp thinks he and the first team players would benefit from a break then back him 100% or risk him walking for a League that does respect managers and players.
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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1034 on: January 27, 2020, 12:26:44 pm »
They're all doing my fucking head in, I locked the other thread cos of this bollocks but I can't be bothered reading it all again.

You're very sensitive I think. Don't bother reading it if it hurts you, surely. Nobody will miss your contribution. I promise.  ;D
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Offline number 168

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1035 on: January 27, 2020, 12:27:21 pm »
The FA plumbs the depths of incompetence year in year out. I am glad that Jurgen is telling them to do one as they owe us nothing and deserve to be confronted and shown up for the useless tw*ts they are. I doubt that they will challenge his decision as the embarrassment of organising a winter break but then forcing clubs to break it would be hilarious.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2020, 05:27:37 pm by number 168 »

Offline Elzar

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1036 on: January 27, 2020, 12:28:15 pm »
I'm not sure how any of that would make Klopp take it more seriously other than potentially number two, which they have done from the 5th round anyway.


Which is a joke anyway. After a certain rounds we stop playing the game the same way as the previous rounds? EH?! While you are there, we suddenly have VAR for the second match available.

Yet it's Klopp that's not taking this thing seriously?
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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1037 on: January 27, 2020, 12:28:40 pm »
Do you think players like Keita, Shaqiri, Matip, Lovren, Lallana, Fabinho need a winter break?

Are you a little concerned - especially after last night - at the prospect of any of these players going in 'cold' to play against, say, Burnley or Villa in the Premier League when we get back from hols?   

If you took that argument to it's ultimate conclusion then you wouldn't have a summer break either though. Players need rest.
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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1038 on: January 27, 2020, 12:29:00 pm »
They won't go in 'cold' 'cos they're likely not scheduled to play those games.

Oh, and your annual leave is hereby cancelled. [emoji3]

No one is cancelling the summer break! The lads can have time off in July like they always do.

As for them being unlikely to play those games....a) How do you know? Apart from anything else, injuries do happen. b) All the more reason they should be playing in the FA Cup. Otherwise it's no football for them for ever.
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Offline wige

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Re: Jürgen Klopp
« Reply #1039 on: January 27, 2020, 12:31:04 pm »
Do you think players like Keita, Shaqiri, Matip, Lovren, Lallana, Fabinho need a winter break?

Are you a little concerned - especially after last night - at the prospect of any of these players going in 'cold' to play against, say, Burnley or Villa in the Premier League when we get back from hols?   

Genuinely think a break might be good for those guys yeah. All have struggled with niggling/persistent injuries over last few seasons, maybe a week off from training/football will give their bodies a bit of needed rest.

Even if it's not perfect, for me, Klopp's taking the right stance. If the outcome of a bit of short term pain is footballing calendar that allows for his desire of players health being respected, then it's going to be better for us, and the game, in the long run.