Topic: Referees and the Media

[Andy @ Allerton!]

It's really the elephant in the room.

We have thousands of hours of coverage from every angle. We have experts on the game. We have views from every angle.

And yet our 'investigative journalists' take not one step towards this thorny problem.

Is there a reason for this? What are they afraid of? Why are shocking decision rarely - if ever - mentioned?

[sms1986]

It's probably not a big enough draw for them. If there is corruption causing this, it's probably not enough to get clicks/views.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

The mainstream media has got into bed with the Referee’s Association. Both Sky and BT have ex referees on their TV coverage, including those still employed, whilst the BBC and Talksport get exclusive interviews on their radio stations. I don’t read newspapers but I’m sure they are doing similar, I think Poll has a column somewhere? Maybe Halsey too.

Last year Neville and Carragher even spent a day at their training complex.

I’d be amazed if they haven’t come to an agreement that they get all this in return for less negative comments. In the past, any bad decision would be spoken about for weeks, but now it just gets brushed under the carpet or excuses are made as to why it happened.

[Gray Hamster]

The mainstream media has got into bed with the Referee’s Association. Both Sky and BT have ex referees on their TV coverage, including those still employed, whilst the BBC and Talksport get exclusive interviews on their radio stations. I don’t read newspapers but I’m sure they are doing similar, I think Poll has a column somewhere? Maybe Halsey too.

Last year Neville and Carragher even spent a day at their training complex.

I’d be amazed if they haven’t come to an agreement that they get all this in return for less negative comments. In the past, any bad decision would be spoken about for weeks, but now it just gets brushed under the carpet or excuses are made as to why it happened.

gotta say mate that's some pretty good insight. I was thinking about this topic after our last match and  I'd agree with everything you've put there.

[Alan_X]

It's really the elephant in the room.

We have thousands of hours of coverage from every angle. We have experts on the game. We have views from every angle.

And yet our 'investigative journalists' take not one step towards this thorny problem.

Is there a reason for this? What are they afraid of? Why are shocking decision rarely - if ever - mentioned?

I think investigative journalists have got more important things to look at than shite refereeing.

[jamie_c]

Like players they make mistakes.

Not really much to follow up on unless someone can prove corruption.  And given that every single club has a fair collection of paranoid whoppers who think both the media and the FA have a conspiracy against their team I think it’s fair to say it’s bollocks.

[OOS]

10, 20 years ago did we notice these mistakes. People who went the game seen the full 90 with no slowmo replies and everyone else was whatever highlight  match of the day would chose.. I couldnt tell you if referees made mistakes because noone knew bar the regulars at grounds, and even then it was live from your seat.

Nowdays every game is in full HD, with super slow mo replies everywhere. With football now days a sanitised saturated entertainment, everything can be disected. Every tiny mistake analysed to death.

As yer da would say, back in my day you could tackle with studs or from behind. The rules have changed, so everything is more subjective. Souness or whatever hardknock could go through players and no would bat an eyelid,now days a rough but fair challenge can be a foul. Players diving all over the shop, going down with feint touches. Every club is guilty of it.

Think its overblown moaning about refs, i wouldnt want to be one in todays game.

[Alan_X]

10, 20 years ago did we notice these mistakes. People who went the game seen the full 90 with no slowmo replies and everyone else was whatever highlight  match of the day would chose.. I couldnt tell you if referees made mistakes because noone knew bar the regulars at grounds, and even then it was live from your seat.

Nowdays every game is in full HD, with super slow mo replies everywhere. With football now days a sanitised saturated entertainment, everything can be disected. Every tiny mistake analysed to death.

As yer da would say, back in my day you could tackle with studs or from behind. The rules have changed, so everything is more subjective. Souness or whatever hardknock could go through players and no would bat an eyelid,now days a rough but fair challenge can be a foul. Players diving all over the shop, going down with feint touches. Every club is guilty of it.

Think its overblown moaning about refs, i wouldnt want to be one in todays game.

Quite. You just listen to the abuse they get and it's no surprise thast people don't fancy it...

"...refs are all shite... useless corrupt c*nts... every fucking one of them is abysmal and should be replaced by technology..."

"...why aren't there any decent referees these days?..."

[Billy The Kid]

Why are shocking decision rarely - if ever - mentioned?

Even if journalists did scrutinise refereeing decisions more regularly, what good would it do? What purpose would it serve exactly? If a ref makes a bad decision then he makes a bad decision. He doesn't have the luxury of reviewing multi-angle slow motion replays to ensure that he's made the right call. He has to make his decision in real-time from whatever vantage point he happens to be at. I think most people understand that

Just out of curiosity, have you ever tried refereeing? Even at Sunday League level?

[SamAteTheRedAcid]

Just out of curiosity, have you ever tried refereeing? Even at Sunday League level?

Now that's an idea. Andy could be our saviour. He could start at Sunday League and work his way up the divisions to the Premier League. We might even get a penalty at the Kop end. They could make a movie about it and everything. 

[BigJimFinn]

I think investigative journalists have got more important things to look at than shite refereeing.

And on the other hand, football writers (in mainstream media) couldn't be bothered to put in the effort required for actual investigative journalism, when they can just toss out some cliches and unfounded opinions to fill their daily click quota. Not that most of them would have the capacity for serious analysis anyway.
Serious criticism of refereeing would also reflect badly on FA and the Premier League, which could cause a backlash and even blacklisting of a writer, and specialist journalists are dependent on access within their field.

[El Lobo]

I don't think there's any doubt that its a tough job.

I also don't think there's any doubt that quite a lot of the decisions made this last season have not been good enough. We can only really go from the decisions in our games, but how can anyone watch that performance in the last game of the season from Friend and just say that's just a guy doing a tough job making a couple of human errors? I've shouted corruption in the past myself, which was wrong and rightly got a ban for it. But there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that there's far more to it than just human error. Clattenburg talked about not wanting to contribute towards a 'narrative' and more and more, that seems to be the case. Instead of making the right decisions, they seem to be making the easy decisions.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

10, 20 years ago did we notice these mistakes. People who went the game seen the full 90 with no slowmo replies and everyone else was whatever highlight  match of the day would chose.. I couldnt tell you if referees made mistakes because noone knew bar the regulars at grounds, and even then it was live from your seat.

Nowdays every game is in full HD, with super slow mo replies everywhere. With football now days a sanitised saturated entertainment, everything can be disected. Every tiny mistake analysed to death.

As yer da would say, back in my day you could tackle with studs or from behind. The rules have changed, so everything is more subjective. Souness or whatever hardknock could go through players and no would bat an eyelid,now days a rough but fair challenge can be a foul. Players diving all over the shop, going down with feint touches. Every club is guilty of it.

Think its overblown moaning about refs, i wouldnt want to be one in todays game.

That aside - are you actually suggesting that those decisions that Friend failed to give at Anfield against Brighton were controversial or difficult or hard to spot?

He gave a few decisions in midfield and nothing for us in dangerous decisions. As has been said when Clattenberg said about narratives - it was clear he didn't want the tag of 'gifting Liverpool a Champions League place in place of Chelsea'

[Crosby Nick]

Now that's an idea. Andy could be our saviour. He could start at Sunday League and work his way up the divisions to the Premier League. We might even get a penalty at the Kop end. They could make a movie about it and everything. 

He’s always been a Marine fan I think. So that’s ok, he could ref our games no problem.

[CanuckYNWA]

I don't think there's any doubt that its a tough job.

I also don't think there's any doubt that quite a lot of the decisions made this last season have not been good enough. We can only really go from the decisions in our games, but how can anyone watch that performance in the last game of the season from Friend and just say that's just a guy doing a tough job making a couple of human errors? I've shouted corruption in the past myself, which was wrong and rightly got a ban for it. But there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that there's far more to it than just human error. Clattenburg talked about not wanting to contribute towards a 'narrative' and more and more, that seems to be the case. Instead of making the right decisions, they seem to be making the easy decisions.

The amount of non calls we have gotten from Ref's at Anfield this season has been shambolic and i am going to attribute a lot of that to "not following the narrative of the crowd" they don't want to be seen as swayed by the crowd clamoring for a decision even though its clear as day. But then give some of the most outrageous calls ever for non Liverpool players like the Penalty to spurs.

I can understand Friend not giving the handball shout against Brighton or not seeing it or thinking it hit his chest/shoulder but to not give that penalty on Salah and claim the player got the ball is a joke when he is staring right at it. Most clear cut penalty i have ever seen. But hands on the back and flinging yourself to the ground is a penalty at Anfield against Liverpool.

[Another Red]

Like players they make mistakes.

Not really much to follow up on unless someone can prove corruption.  And given that every single club has a fair collection of paranoid whoppers who think both the media and the FA have a conspiracy against their team I think it’s fair to say it’s bollocks.

This. They're human and have a propensity to make mistakes believe it or not. Get used to it unless you want every single decision scrutinised by a machine.

By the way, of all the leagues and competitions that employ VAR, I think the PL has the best system. Goal line decisions are black and white whereas everything else is open to interpretation. The problem with using VAR for offside calls is that it can't be used to reverse decisions that are actually on side. Best left to the officials in my opinion.

[idontknow]

I think investigative journalists have got more important things to look at than shite refereeing.

Investigative journalists 

[BrandoLFC]

I'm surprised this isn't looked into more from an analytics perspective for betting purposes.  It is in the States especially for NBA and MLB games in that certain referees or umpires either have issues with specific teams or just call the game oddly in comparison to their peers which can affect betting markets.  This then bleeds into the media as people talk and how the Donaghy ref scandal came out.

I'd also be amazed if someone under Edwards isn't actually doing this for every EPL level referee which is then reviewed with Klopp and the players as part of the pre-game routine.  I'm sure it wouldn't take a ton of effort to spot that every ref has tendencies though they may go with the "narrative" at times instead of the actual rules as we are a bit too keenly aware.

[12C]

If you were to say to me who is the worst referee you have ever seen, many names would come up, Partridge, Worral, Riley, Webb included. But the worst, most incompetent ref I have ever seen is Peter Willis.
(Ask YorkyKopite about him)

He was so inept he nearly caused a riot at Anfield, the only time I ever saw a Liverpool fan run on and remonstrate with a referee. So bad was his performance, that it turned a Liverpool Ipswich game, normally noted for good football, into a bloodbath.

I saw him ruin a game between Everton and Forest, where he booked the whole Forest wall for standing two yards off a free kick and refusing to retreat, and then ordered the free kick taken when the wall still hadn’t retreated.

My point, I suppose, is bad referees have always existed. It is a hard job but there are always some who are shite. The modern scrutiny makes it harder, but it does seem that too many nowadays are more focussed on how their image is perceived, with shaved heads or hair gel seemingly more important than consistency.