Author Topic: Tories really really aren't very nice at all are they? (***)  (Read 190682 times)

Offline Trada

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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #40 on: July 4, 2017, 04:08:35 pm »
They seem to be going for the Uturn record another one today.

Tory plans to axe free school lunches have been scrapped in yet another humiliating climbdown for Theresa May.

It's the Prime Minister's second U-turn in 24 hours - as the Tories are also ditching plans to hold a free vote on bringing back fox hunting.

Schools minister Nick Gibb admitted the Government will "retain the existing provision" under questioning over the controversial measure by Labour's Angela Rayner.

He told MPs in the House of Commons: "We have listened very carefully to the views of the sector on the proposal to remove infant free school meals.

"And we have decided that it is right to retain the existing provision.
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #41 on: July 4, 2017, 04:18:02 pm »




Jeremy C*nt has been photographed flashing his briefing notes on the way into a cabinet meeting in Number 10.

He was photographed on Downing Street holding what appeared to be briefing notes for his appearance at Health Questions in the House of Commons this morning.

It starts with Lib Dem MP Alistair Carmichael's opening question, which was tabled in advance.

It reads: "“What recent discussions has he had with Home Secretary on ensuring the NHS has the workforce it needs after UK leaves the EU.”

Underneath is written what appears to be a potential answer: “The 150,000 EU nationals working in our health and care services do a brilliant job and we want them to continue doing it. I am in regular talks with Cabinet colleagues to inform both domestic workforce plans and the government negotiations with the EU.

It goes on: “Hard Brexit means people fleeing UK

“26 June PM made clear that we intend to protect the rights of EU nationals in the UK and UK nationals in the EU.

“…the Lib Dem approach means ignoring what people voted for.”

On the other side of the document was shown a string of stats for NHS workers from the EU.

It reads:

    Around 10,700 doctors (9%) are EU nationals [as at Mar 17]
    Around 2,200 EU docs joined the NHS in year to March 17
    Around 62,000 nurses (19%) are EU nationals [as at Mar 17]
    Around 4,000 EU nurses joined the NHS in year to March 17


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-hunt-snapped-flashing-briefing-10734611
I wondered how such an incompetent like Hunt kept his job. Then I read he is a cousin of the queen. Does anyone think the two things could be connected?
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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #42 on: July 4, 2017, 04:21:02 pm »
They seem to be going for the Uturn record another one today.

Tory plans to axe free school lunches have been scrapped in yet another humiliating climbdown for Theresa May.

It's the Prime Minister's second U-turn in 24 hours - as the Tories are also ditching plans to hold a free vote on bringing back fox hunting.

Schools minister Nick Gibb admitted the Government will "retain the existing provision" under questioning over the controversial measure by Labour's Angela Rayner.

He told MPs in the House of Commons: "We have listened very carefully to the views of the sector on the proposal to remove infant free school meals.

"And we have decided that it is right to retain the existing provision.

Wonder how many more of Labour's unaffordable policies we'll see the Tories implement.
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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #43 on: July 4, 2017, 04:21:35 pm »
And a complete waste of time. There are sufficient Tories against Hunting to wipe out the majority. Of course Kate fucking Hoey is pro-Hunting, and in the wrong party.

Kate Hoey, pretty much the only Labour MP I genuinely wanted to see losing her seat in the last election.

Throughout a truly awful Tory campaign the offer of a free vote on Fox Hunting was the most bizarrely stupid thing they did, its a toxic issue for so many people and even most Tories don't support it these days

Offline SP

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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #44 on: July 4, 2017, 04:25:16 pm »
They seem to be going for the Uturn record another one today.

Tory plans to axe free school lunches have been scrapped in yet another humiliating climbdown for Theresa May.

It's the Prime Minister's second U-turn in 24 hours - as the Tories are also ditching plans to hold a free vote on bringing back fox hunting.

Schools minister Nick Gibb admitted the Government will "retain the existing provision" under questioning over the controversial measure by Labour's Angela Rayner.

He told MPs in the House of Commons: "We have listened very carefully to the views of the sector on the proposal to remove infant free school meals.

"And we have decided that it is right to retain the existing provision.

But is this not how a hung parliament works? The Tories proposed a manifesto which they would have implemented if they were returned with a majority. They weren't and so they will not implement the full manifesto. Anything that is likely to cause any hint of rebellion will be shelved. It is not so much a U-turn, as the the realities of having no majority of their own.


Offline SP

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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #45 on: July 4, 2017, 04:26:57 pm »
Wonder how many more of Labour's unaffordable policies we'll see the Tories implement.

Labour's proposal was expansion of the programme. The Tories has reined back from cancelling it, they are not expanding it.

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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #46 on: July 4, 2017, 04:27:29 pm »
Wonder how many more of Labour's unaffordable policies we'll see the Tories implement.

They'll be ditching anything vaguely controversial from the manifesto, they don't have the votes to get it through.

I think the public sector pay cap will go, and no doubt some smaller bits and pieces, funded through ditching the Corp Tax cuts, maybe looking at higher rate tax relief for pension contributions, and maybe even revisiting taxation for the self employed (if they think they have the votes) I don't see them getting rid of tuition fees though, just too expensive.

The problem for the Tories of course is any kind of revenue raising exercise through taxation will be unpopular with some of the more extreme backbenchers.

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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #47 on: July 4, 2017, 04:31:26 pm »
Ultimately, I can see them doing nothing but Brexit, and using as many Statutory Instruments as they can get away with.

Offline Trada

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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #48 on: July 4, 2017, 04:35:17 pm »
If the Tory whos court case started today is found guilty of election fraud will this means there will be a by-election.

I guess there would be.
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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #49 on: July 4, 2017, 04:46:12 pm »
If the Tory whos court case started today is found guilty of election fraud will this means there will be a by-election.

I guess there would be.

No. This relates to the 2015 election doesn't it? That result has been superseded.  There would have to be malpractice in the 2017 election to force a byelection.

It was just the magistrate referring it to Crown Court today.
« Last Edit: July 4, 2017, 04:48:10 pm by SP »

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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #50 on: July 4, 2017, 04:53:25 pm »
The video in the OP doesn't seem to be available....anyone?

Offline Trada

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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #51 on: July 4, 2017, 04:55:46 pm »
No. This relates to the 2015 election doesn't it? That result has been superseded.  There would have to be malpractice in the 2017 election to force a byelection.

It was just the magistrate referring it to Crown Court today.

Its just that its still the same MP surely he would have to step down if gets found guilty of fraud.
« Last Edit: July 4, 2017, 07:25:17 pm by Trada »
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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #52 on: July 4, 2017, 04:59:21 pm »
The video in the OP doesn't seem to be available....anyone?

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/BkvEp_B5Kq8" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/BkvEp_B5Kq8</a>
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #53 on: July 4, 2017, 07:03:08 pm »
Its just that its still the same MP surely it would have to step down if gets found guilty of fraud.

Or even more unlikely jailed. But no. Remember the MP who was jailed for expenses fraud - he remained as MP until pressured to go
Edit ...apparently you have to be jailed for more than a year
« Last Edit: July 4, 2017, 07:05:40 pm by 12C »
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Offline John C

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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #54 on: July 4, 2017, 07:07:21 pm »
Thanks Dave, brilliant.

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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #55 on: July 4, 2017, 07:14:47 pm »
Seems that Gove had a mate in the Education department. Seems to be pedalling the line that tuition fees are fine and dandy and why should you pay for other people's education from taxation.
There is something really horrible in this argument.
These people all got free uni education, but refuse to pay taxes for the next generation to prosper. Evil selfish greedy, these words don't register with them

Why would we scrap £9,000-a-year tuition fees when we know they work? | Jo Johnson - the guardian
https://apple.news/ABO3XQc8gMAOCb4AvUYdUyw
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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #56 on: July 4, 2017, 07:28:38 pm »
Seems that Gove had a mate in the Education department. Seems to be pedalling the line that tuition fees are fine and dandy and why should you pay for other people's education from taxation.
There is something really horrible in this argument.
These people all got free uni education, but refuse to pay taxes for the next generation to prosper. Evil selfish greedy, these words don't register with them

Why would we scrap £9,000-a-year tuition fees when we know they work? | Jo Johnson - the guardian
https://apple.news/ABO3XQc8gMAOCb4AvUYdUyw
Tuition fees are quite a progressive measure. 
Those who earn less will never pay them off, those who earn more will pay more.

I reckon it's pretty much the fairest system of supporting so many people in higher education.. controversial I know..
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Offline SP

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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #57 on: July 4, 2017, 08:11:36 pm »
Or even more unlikely jailed. But no. Remember the MP who was jailed for expenses fraud - he remained as MP until pressured to go
Edit ...apparently you have to be jailed for more than a year

Electoral fraud is a special case. Barred for 3 years from public service.

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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #58 on: July 4, 2017, 08:33:28 pm »
Tuition fees are quite a progressive measure. 
Those who earn less will never pay them off, those who earn more will pay more.

I reckon it's pretty much the fairest system of supporting so many people in higher education.. controversial I know..

Surely its fine to double or triple them then?

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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #59 on: July 4, 2017, 09:09:49 pm »
Tuition fees are quite a progressive measure. 
Those who earn less will never pay them off, those who earn more will pay more.

I reckon it's pretty much the fairest system of supporting so many people in higher education.. controversial I know..
I totally agree.

If you want to provide targeted financial assistance to people doing certain subjects or to students from poorer backgrounds then I don't have an issue with it, but universal free university education isn't a particularly progressive measure anyway due to the the under representation of people from poorer backgrounds at university.

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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #60 on: July 4, 2017, 10:20:01 pm »


 ;D

Offline Trada

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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #61 on: July 5, 2017, 08:08:41 am »
 David Cameron calls Tory austerity critics selfish, not compassionate

Former British PM says ministers calling for public sector pay cap to be lifted wanted to spend money they might need in future

David Cameron has described critics of austerity as “selfish”, saying their calls to boost spending and raise public sector pay may appear compassionate but would simply saddle future generations with debt.

The comments triggered a furious response from Labour and the Lib Dems, who described the former prime minister as totally out of touch, claiming it was astonishing he could make the argument when nurses were turning to food banks to get by.

Cameron’s remarks could also reopen the wounds of the EU referendum as they were widely interpreted as an attack on the two most significant Vote Leave figures, Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson and Fuckwitted Pob lookalike Michael Gove.

The foreign secretary and environment secretary, whose successful Brexit campaign cost Cameron his political career, have both broken ranks in recent days to hint that the 1% public sector pay cap should be lifted.

Their comments, alongside cabinet level interventions by Justine Greening at education and Jeremy C*nt at health, have ramped up the pressure on Theresa May and the chancellor, Philip Hammond.

The pair have faced demands from dozens of MPs to ease the pain for families by raising pay and blocking school cuts after Jeremy Corbyn’s radical, anti-austerity Labour party stance secured gains in the general election.

Many feel action is urgent after a government-commissioned report suggested the average pay of teachers had fallen by £3 an hour in real terms, police officers by £2, while the wages of nurses have stagnated.

But Cameron used a speech in Seoul, South Korea, to come to his successor’s defence by saying it was too soon “to let spending and borrowing rip” because of the danger of future economic shocks.

“The opponents of so-called austerity couch their arguments in a way that make them sound generous and compassionate,” he told the Asia Leadership Conference. “They seek to paint the supporters of sound finances as selfish, or uncaring. The exact reverse is true.

“Giving up on sound finances isn’t being generous, it’s being selfish: spending money today that you may need tomorrow.”

His comments led to an angry response from opposition politicians who lined up to say that Cameron had no idea how much people were struggling – and suggested it was crass to use a well-paid speech to make the argument.

The shadow chancellor, John McDonnell, accused the senior Conservative figure of living “in a different world from the rest of us”.

“Only David Cameron would say that hard-working people seeing their living standards fall back and their pay suppressed is good for them. It just further shows how out of touch he was then, and still remains today.”

The Lib Dem leader, Tim Farron, described it as a “pretty rich for a multimillionaire to tell our hard-working firefighters, paramedics, nurses and doctors that they don’t deserve a pay rise”.

“But I guess you would think that if you are jetsetting around the world to give highly paid speeches – you don’t really understand how millions of public sector workers have to scrimp each month to get by,” he added, giving examples of nurses visiting foodbanks and asking how Cameron considered them to be “paid enough”.

A spokesman would not say how much the former Tory leader had received for the speaking engagement, but confirmed that he was paid.

The shadow Treasury minister, Jonathan Reynolds, said Cameron was “completely out of touch and has no awareness of the country he used to lead”.

But Cameron is not the only one to urge calm within the Tory party after a public spat at the top of government over the issue of public sector pay.

Sources said that the chief whip, Gavin Williamson, had been speaking to colleagues about the need for “unity and discipline” with a number of one-on-one meetings with cabinet ministers.

The former work and pensions secretary, Stephen Crabb, suggested it was wrong for such senior figures to speak out so publicly against government policy.

Nigel Lawson, a former chancellor under Margaret Thatcher, said it was Hammond’s job to keep control of public spending to avoid “economic disaster”.

“It’s not easy but it is necessary,” he told the BBC. “People understand we need to pay our way on the road to economic success.” He argued that the arguments needed to happen in private. “Stop having this debate in public, it’s ludicrous.”

Hammond also tried to defuse the row by calling on his party to “hold its nerve”, claiming that the only way to free up spending was higher taxes, more borrowing or stronger growth.

Like Cameron, the chancellor has argued that borrowing piles debt on to the next generation and has insisted the Tories are a party of low tax.

He has said growth was the only sustainable way to boost public spending in the long run, although sources suggest he is ready to talk about ways to raise money to loosen the ties of austerity over the coming months.

One senior Treasury figure said despite that, things would continue to be financially constrained in the run-up to Brexit.

Rises of 1% for dentists, nurses, doctors and the military have already been agreed for this year, and Downing Street said ministers would respond to other pay review recommendations within days. Teachers, police and prison officers are next in line.

It came alongside a call from civil servants to ensure that any lifting of salaries also included them.

Dave Penman, the general secretary of the FDA union that represents senior managers and professionals in public service said his members would welcome “warm words from a number of cabinet ministers over lifting the public sector pay cap.

“But warm words won’t pay the bills. The majority of civil servants are not covered by pay review bodies and so those very same ministers have it within their control to lift the pay cap for civil servants in their department.

“We have today written to those ministers, calling on them to follow up their words with action. If they believe the pay cap should be lifted, then they can begin with the civil servants in their departments who support them as ministers and deliver vital public services.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/04/david-cameron-calls-tory-austerity-critics-selfish-not-compassionate
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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #62 on: July 5, 2017, 09:01:44 am »
Seems to be a rumour going around in the papers that the Tories are trying to get a deal done with the Lib Dems to get their NHS funding though Parliament.

You would have thought they would stay a Million miles away from doing any deal with the Tories if this is true.
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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #63 on: July 5, 2017, 09:07:54 am »
Seems to be a rumour going around in the papers that the Tories are trying to get a deal done with the Lib Dems to get their NHS funding though Parliament.

You would have thought they would stay a Million miles away from doing any deal with the Tories if this is true.

Immediately refuted by the Lib Dems, so why continue to spread false rumours like that?

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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #64 on: July 5, 2017, 10:53:30 am »
But if there was a bill a increasing funding to the NHS that would improve the services to the benefit of all, why shouldn't the Lib Dems, or indeed Labour support that bill in the national interest? Or does that only apply to Hard Brexit?

In a hung parliament I would expect MPs to support legislation that is in the national interest, no matter what their party political interests would suggest. Of course, each party would have their own definition of national interest - but I would hope that any party that puts the party before the country would be punished at the polls.

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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #67 on: July 5, 2017, 02:37:14 pm »
Tuition fees are quite a progressive measure. 
Those who earn less will never pay them off, those who earn more will pay more.

I reckon it's pretty much the fairest system of supporting so many people in higher education.. controversial I know..

Charging 6% interest from day one, when you can't actually afford to  pay it back means that the debt grows and grows rather than shrinks . Only winners are the bankers. Surprisingly!
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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #68 on: July 5, 2017, 03:59:40 pm »
I hope he becomes the Tory leader.
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Offline SP

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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #69 on: July 5, 2017, 04:20:42 pm »
Charging 6% interest from day one, when you can't actually afford to  pay it back means that the debt grows and grows rather than shrinks . Only winners are the bankers. Surprisingly!

But the repayments are capped, it does not have the toxic compound interest payday loan effect - if it does grow it is eventually written off.

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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #70 on: July 5, 2017, 04:56:02 pm »
 Robert Peston‏Verified account @Peston

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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #71 on: July 5, 2017, 05:58:11 pm »
Charging 6% interest from day one, when you can't actually afford to  pay it back means that the debt grows and grows rather than shrinks . Only winners are the bankers. Surprisingly!
70% will never pay it all back...

You don't pay anything back if you don't earn much.

Let's put the question this way: If you had £11bn to spend, would you spend it on

A. graduates who are likely to earn far above average
B. Something else.

It's B for me every day.

Spend the £11bn closing the massive attainment gap of white working class kids by putting the money in before they even get to school.
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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #72 on: July 5, 2017, 07:32:30 pm »
I think this explains it well...

“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #73 on: July 5, 2017, 08:34:49 pm »
I think this explains it well...



2 students. 1 from a poor background and 1 from a richer background. Both earn the same money but according to the IFS, the poorer one will pay more back.

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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #74 on: July 5, 2017, 08:37:51 pm »
I think this explains it well...



Of course he's missing a more relevant scenario where the student debt is say £5000, or even £10,000.  Fair enough put in the £1bn scenario to make your point but it's a pointless comparison if you don't compare to other actual realistic scenarios as well.

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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #75 on: July 5, 2017, 08:47:39 pm »
Of course he's missing a more relevant scenario where the student debt is say £5000, or even £10,000.  Fair enough put in the £1bn scenario to make your point but it's a pointless comparison if you don't compare to other actual realistic scenarios as well.
£5000 isn't a common debt
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
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Offline Elmo!

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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #76 on: July 5, 2017, 08:49:08 pm »
£5000 isn't a common debt

What do you mean? Neither is £1bn.

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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #77 on: July 6, 2017, 03:44:06 pm »
 Robbie Gibb‏Verified account @RobbieGibb

I am pleased to announce I will be leaving the BBC to join the Prime Minister, Theresa May, as her new Director of Communications

That explain the Right wing bias of the political programs on the BBC.

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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #78 on: July 6, 2017, 04:19:03 pm »
Robbie Gibb‏Verified account @RobbieGibb

I am pleased to announce I will be leaving the BBC to join the Prime Minister, Theresa May, as her new Director of Communications

That explain the Right wing bias of the political programs on the BBC.

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I wouldn't go that far but it is a poke in the eye for those who claim the BBC is full of lefty luvvie, neo-commies.

Offline SP

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Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #79 on: July 6, 2017, 05:38:49 pm »
Nice strawman. Claiming that BBC journalists are generally left leaning off camera, is very different to claiming that all BBC journalists are left learning. You have introduced a bizarre absolute.

There are right wing people at the Beeb. There are left wing people. A sample of one proves nothing bar you ignorance of statistics and probability.

I may as well say, McDonnell is a Marxist, therefore all MPs are Marxists. It is patronising gibberish. But then it is sourced from Twitter. Please don't copy and paste Twitter, if it is worth saying, find your own words to express it, and find a decent source.