Topic: Anfield Road Redevelopment

[WisconsinRed]

Did you even read what I wrote? As I even said you read between the lines.

Ayre definitely didn't 'say as much' either. Hence my comment. You've inferred the delay being due to the corporates and the quotes from Ayre doesn't mention that being a delay at all.

Of course not. However I won't read between the lines to form an opinion. It's pointless and means your opinion isn't backed up by anything factual.


Yes it will get done, imo.

Urgency? I mean they've managed to deal with an exceptionally complex issue (been discussed to death) to both decide to stay at Anfield and then build the Main Stand. That was only completed part way through last season and they said from the start the decision for the Anny Road would not be made until after this was complete - in the meantime they've done a lot of work around the ground in the summer and from first hand accounts from members on here they are actively working on the Anny Rd end.

I understand you're ultra keen for it to get done. However doesn't really pay to make assumptions based on quotes that you've read between the lines of.

“A stand behind a goal doesn’t have the benefit of hospitality that would go a long way to meet the redevelopment costs,” the chief executive said, in minutes from the meeting. “If you consider the redevelopment of Anfield Road from a purely general admission perspective, building, say, 6,000 extra seats to take the capacity up to 60,000 would cost somewhere between £60m and £70m. At £12,000 to £13,000 per seat, it would take approximately 15 years to pay back, which is not a smart investment for the business. Therefore the club needs to find a rounded solution that’s in the best interests of the football club.”

What is Ian ayre saying here then in your opinion.

To me he is saying, we can do it now, but the payback is too long due to no corporates. So they won't go ahead until there's a way to get their money back quicker.

I have no agenda against FSG over this, I'm giving my opinion on how I see this.

[readybreck]

You would like to think that the extra capacity price per seat thing would also accommodate the extra business brought to the club PLUS the city and the area, not to mention the extra volume of noise potentially created which would hopefully help with the drive for success (after all the club are the ones using the 12th man thing with advertising). Or is that just fanciful thinking and it really is just about dollar profit?

[CraigDS]

You would like to think that the extra capacity price per seat thing would also accommodate the extra business brought to the club PLUS the city and the area, not to mention the extra volume of noise potentially created which would hopefully help with the drive for success (after all the club are the ones using the 12th man thing with advertising). Or is that just fanciful thinking and it really is just about dollar profit?

It will include spending in club shops, food, drink, etc. from the additional fans, but won’t really include spend in the wider area as that doesn’t contribute to paying for the stand.

As for the noise, adding more fans isn’t going to make it better, especially if the answer is to add them at a high cost. However how to improve the atmosphere prob isn’t for in here.

[readybreck]

It will include spending in club shops, food, drink, etc. from the additional fans, but won’t really include spend in the wider area as that doesn’t contribute to paying for the stand.

As for the noise, adding more fans isn’t going to make it better, especially if the answer is to add them at a high cost. However how to improve the atmosphere prob isn’t for in here.

Fair do's.

[Brain Potter]

Why can't they include hospitality in any potential Anfeld Road end ? Are they at the limit of demand ?

You can have hospitilaity seats in the new upper tier surely. Other clubs have hospitality seats behind the goals.
 

[poopscoop]

I think its disingenous of the club to assert that costs for redelopment must be balanced by potential match day revenue. It paints Liverpool Football Club as a very one dimensional enterprise which ignores overseas merchandising, sponsorships and TV revenues.
The experience of going to the match is being slowly strangled to death IMO because we cannot get younger people into the ground. The club has to be brave on this - not reckless - but make a concerted effort to secure an active, vocal and passionate fanbase for the next 20 years.

[Alan_X]

I'm 4,500 on the waiting list so that's why it's a matter of urgency to me 

Why is a matter of urgency? Couldn't you get any tickets on Tuesday?

[Keith Lard]

I think its disingenous of the club to assert that costs for redelopment must be balanced by potential match day revenue. It paints Liverpool Football Club as a very one dimensional enterprise which ignores overseas merchandising, sponsorships and TV revenues.
The experience of going to the match is being slowly strangled to death IMO because we cannot get younger people into the ground. The club has to be brave on this - not reckless - but make a concerted effort to secure an active, vocal and passionate fanbase for the next 20 years.

I absolutely agree with the sentiment of your post. We need to get more passionate matchday going reds into the ground, or we risk losing a generation. What price do you put on that?

One thing, however, is I would prefer to give FSG another year at least before pointing fingers. They delivered an amazing main stand and deserve some trust and patience on this one. As I said in earlier post, though, I think 12 months is a decent timeline to set for them to communicate their plans. If we don’t hear anything by this time next year I’d start getting worried.

[CraigDS]

We've just added 8k to the capacity, paid mostly via corporates - how much has the atmosphere improved?

Just more people inside the ground isn't the answer.

[Alan_X]

We've just added 8k to the capacity, paid mostly via corporates - how much has the atmosphere improved?

Just more people inside the ground isn't the answer.

The atmosphere in the new Upper Main is an improvement.

[Keith Lard]

Complete pipe dream but let me share.

Expand Annie road to bring capacity to 60k. Create 7k new seats to be sold exclusively on general sale at the ground. 5k at £20 per  ticket to local supporters purchasing at the ground. The other 2k for an under 18-s pen at £10 each again for purchase only in person at the ground.

That will improve the atmosphere. Find other ways to raise revenues. But let’s get more people into the ground who are willing to queue and who just want to see the game. Game belongs to the supporters and we forget that at our peril. I’m 110% willing to fuck off one marquee signing to make this happen.

[WisconsinRed]

Why is a matter of urgency? Couldn't you get any tickets on Tuesday?

?

[Anfield89]

?

Can’t you get tickets for games?

[Alan_X]

?

I assumed you were in the 13+ sale on Tuesday. Why else would you need a season ticket?

[WisconsinRed]

Can’t you get tickets for games?

I'm using someone else's season ticket at the moment. I'd like my own.

[WisconsinRed]

I assumed you were in the 13+ sale on Tuesday. Why else would you need a season ticket?

I'm not sure what to make of this???

[Keith Lard]

I assumed you were in the 13+ sale on Tuesday. Why else would you need a season ticket?

Ah come on mate you’re giving Wisconsin a bit of a hard time. Some of us don’t have the time or inclination to go through the bullshit of getting a ticket. I certainly don’t.

I’m 3000 or so on the waiting list and want my season ticket. I want my guaranteed ticket so that I can plan my busy life around how to get to games. I want to look forward to Home games. I can’t be arsed scrapping around in ballots, special memberships and whatever other bollocks.

Two things make sense to me. Season ticket and general sale. The rest is a pain the ass to me.

[Alan_X]

I'm using someone else's season ticket at the moment. I'd like my own.

Fair enough. Do you mind if I ask why they aren't using their own ticket? I know there's loads that are in other people's names and there's no incentive to give season tickets up.

*edit - no need to answer that. Hopefully you understand what I was getting at. The details aren't important.

Ah come on mate you’re giving Wisconsin a bit of a hard time. Some of us don’t have the time or inclination to go through the bullshit of getting a ticket. I certainly don’t.

I’m 3000 or so on the waiting list and want my season ticket. I want my guaranteed ticket so that I can plan my busy life around how to get to games. I want to look forward to Home games. I can’t be arsed scrapping around in ballots, special memberships and whatever other bollocks.

Two things make sense to me. Season ticket and general sale. The rest is a pain the ass to me.

It's not about giving him a hard time - it's just trying to point out that capacity and the season ticket waiting list are not the same thing. Of course you and WR should be able to get season tickets if you're going to all home games. It's a method of buying tickets that makes sense for you as you say.

Anyway - the Anfield Road needs to be expanded. I think we agree on that. That would allow for some additional season tickets and would hopefully relieve some of the incentive for people to hold onto season tickets.  60,000 will make a big difference and we all need to push for it.

[Alan_X]

I'm not sure what to make of this???

I don't know your circumstances mate and was just trying to find out. There are people on the waiting list who go to all games like you (either on 13+ credits or a borrowed season ticket) and there are people who want a season ticket but don't go at all or once/twice a season.

People in the first group (like you) should get a season ticket but wouldn't add to the capacity. The second group can go fuck themselves as far as I'm concerned - additional seats shouldn't be allocated to people who want a season ticket to jump the queue because they can't be arsed to try for tickets in the Member's sales.

Anfield Road expansion
Amnesty on season tickets
Aggressive action on touts
Additional allocation of season tickets
Extra tickets for young locals
Review of selling criteria for member's sales

[Keith Lard]

I don't know your circumstances mate and was just trying to find out. There are people on the waiting list who go to all games like you (either on 13+ credits or a borrowed season ticket) and there are people who want a season ticket but don't go at all or once/twice a season.

People in the first group (like you) should get a season ticket but wouldn't add to the capacity. The second group can go fuck themselves as far as I'm concerned - additional seats shouldn't be allocated to people who want a season ticket to jump the queue because they can't be arsed to try for tickets in the Member's sales.

Anfield Road expansion
Amnesty on season tickets
Aggressive action on touts
Additional allocation of season tickets
Extra tickets for young locals
Review of selling criteria for member's sales

Completely agree with you Alan - we need to target season ticket holders that cling onto it for grim life and barely attend games personally. They’re like a dry rot.

As I said I’m 3000 on the waiting list but I’d be completely up for losing my place in exchange for the concept of season tickets being completely abandoned, and instead all tickets being general sale with a method for giving priority to those that can prove highest personal attendance. That along with lower ticket prices.

A stadium with a great atmosphere and passionate support would be the greatest signing we could ever make.

[WisconsinRed]

Fair enough. Do you mind if I ask why they aren't using their own ticket? I know there's loads that are in other people's names and there's no incentive to give season tickets up.

*edit - no need to answer that. Hopefully you understand what I was getting at. The details aren't important.
 

It's not about giving him a hard time - it's just trying to point out that capacity and the season ticket waiting list are not the same thing. Of course you and WR should be able to get season tickets if you're going to all home games. It's a method of buying tickets that makes sense for you as you say.

Anyway - the Anfield Road needs to be expanded. I think we agree on that. That would allow for some additional season tickets and would hopefully relieve some of the incentive for people to hold onto season tickets.  60,000 will make a big difference and we all need to push for it.

I know you said I don't have to answer it but I will anyway 😁. It's my dads ticket, he can't go at the moment due to his shift pattern/cost. He doesn't want to give it up as he'll never get it back again if/when his circumstances change. I can understand that he's been going since the 70's.

I think what it shows is the ground is too small, far too small! I have a lad who I take when I can but I'd love to take him more often but I cant.

I'd love a pay on the gate section as I'd queue up in that to take my lad no problem, I'd rather do that than try online or the phone. I think we miss massively the walk up crowd who are up for going on the day as opposed to now where everyone's there because they bought their ticket months ago. They may not be as 'up' for it as when they bought the ticket.

[Easy]

I know that "business" doesn't work this way but at some point FSG are going to walk away with a massive profit when they sell for £1.5bn or thereabouts? Such a shame that they aren't going to invest some of that "profit" back into the club before they go. I appreciate that the ARE won't pay back the investment per seat anytime soon (20 years or so) - fine, but the club sale will pay that back many times over. It's more a cashflow point, surely, than anything else. FSG invest up front now and the sale covers it in due course. Why wouldn't that work?

[Anfield89]

I know that "business" doesn't work this way but at some point FSG are going to walk away with a massive profit when they sell for £1.5bn or thereabouts? Such a shame that they aren't going to invest some of that "profit" back into the club before they go. I appreciate that the ARE won't pay back the investment per seat anytime soon (20 years or so) - fine, but the club sale will pay that back many times over. It's more a cashflow point, surely, than anything else. FSG invest up front now and the sale covers it in due course. Why wouldn't that work?

Your assuming they want to sell the club.

[Alan_X]

Your assuming they want to sell the club.

Exactly. People still don't understand the principle of owning assets. They seem to imagine billionaires want to  have loads of cash that they roll around in like Scrooge McDuck.

[The Lord Admiral]

Your assuming they want to sell the club.

Without wanting to sound a pedant, that's a fair assumption. They're an investment vehicle. The question is the timing. and the timing is always when someone makes them an offer they can't refuse. I'd have thought 1.5 bn would do it. But they may have designs on more.
 

[Alan_X]

They’re an investment vehicle not speculators. There’s a big difference between investing in a portfolio of assets and flipping assets for cash.

The value for FSG goes beyond simply generating a profit by buying and selling. Their ‘brand’ as sports specialists is dependent on the quality of the clubs they have in their portfolio not the amount of cash they have in the bank.

FSG isn’t what Henry, Werner and the others are doing to make millions/billions. It’s what they’re doing with the millions/billions they made elsewhere.

If FSG cash in now and get a few hundred million what would they do with it? Buy another football club? All the good ones are gone.

[poopscoop]

Exactly. People still don't understand the principle of owning assets. They seem to imagine billionaires want to  have loads of cash that they roll around in like Scrooge McDuck.

Or Mike Ashley.

[owens_2k]

The second group can go fuck themselves as far as I'm concerned

Wow. I've been on the waiting list since I was 11 years old. I'm now 32. I made a decision long ago to play football as much as I can over watching football. So I go the game as and when I can which is probably only about 4 games a season due to my own playing commitments. When I finally get offered a season ticket it will probably be time for me to stop playing anyways, so ill then be able to go.

[Anfield89]

Wow. I've been on the waiting list since I was 11 years old. I'm now 32. I made a decision long ago to play football as much as I can over watching football. So I go the game as and when I can which is probably only about 4 games a season due to my own playing commitments. When I finally get offered a season ticket it will probably be time for me to stop playing anyways, so ill then be able to go.

Then people who consistently go 15,16,17,18,19 times every year should move ahead of you on the waiting list.

[Red Beret]

FSG haven't sold the Red Sox, why would they sell us?  Somebody would have to offer an insane amount of money for them to even consider it.

[kopite321]

This thread is totally off subject matter now... 

[owens_2k]

Then people who consistently go 15,16,17,18,19 times every year should move ahead of you on the waiting list.

And how do you justify that? It's a waiting list for a reason, they should join the orderly queue that has been in place for decades.

[ScottScott]

And how do you justify that? It's a waiting list for a reason, they should join the orderly queue that has been in place for decades.

I'm with you. It's a waiting list, you've been waiting for years for it come to you so why should people who can pay and go 13+ games a season get priority?

I go a few times a season, either through using a mate's ticket or picking up what I can in the general sale. I'm offered tickets most weeks but I have a family and I play football as well. I'm also offered tickets at double face value sometimes by people trying to make money on season tickets so forgive me for not wanting to be robbed by my own set of fans and for wanting to enjoy what little free time I have whilst I can still be active

[rob1966]

I'm with you. It's a waiting list, you've been waiting for years for it come to you so why should people who can pay and go 13+ games a season get priority?

I go a few times a season, either through using a mate's ticket or picking up what I can in the general sale. I'm offered tickets most weeks but I have a family and I play football as well. I'm also offered tickets at double face value sometimes by people trying to make money on season tickets so forgive me for not wanting to be robbed by my own set of fans and for wanting to enjoy what little free time I have whilst I can still be active

Agreed, its a waiting list end of. I've been on the list since 2003, got mates who went on in the 90's, but due to a late in life family had to stop going in 2010, but I fully intend to start going again when money comes easier. I've made a few games since 2010 and am taking my two lads to the legends game in March. First game was 1975 and have spent more seasons going the game than not going in that time. If I do get offered a seasie (I'm about 4500 on the list) I will be using it.

[andy07]

I'm with you. It's a waiting list, you've been waiting for years for it come to you so why should people who can pay and go 13+ games a season get priority?

I go a few times a season, either through using a mate's ticket or picking up what I can in the general sale. I'm offered tickets most weeks but I have a family and I play football as well. I'm also offered tickets at double face value sometimes by people trying to make money on season tickets so forgive me for not wanting to be robbed by my own set of fans and for wanting to enjoy what little free time I have whilst I can still be active

The people who go to 14+ homes in a season are a significant number of those on the waiting list. 

[Anfield89]

And how do you justify that? It's a waiting list for a reason, they should join the orderly queue that has been in place for decades.

I justify it because they are clearly more committed and a are more deserving of a discount having spent fortunes every year supporting the team.

[andy07]

We seem to have drifted off topic and into who is the most worthy debate.   FFS, there is a nice big empty space behind the existing stand shouting out " Please build a whopping big second tier above me".  Just get on with it and stop pissing about.

[andyw79]

We seem to have drifted off topic and into who is the most worthy debate.   FFS, there is a nice big empty space behind the existing stand shouting out " Please build a whopping big second tier above me".  Just get on with it and stop pissing about.

Absolutely!!!

[andyw79]

Should really be starting to build it as soon as the season is over! Don't understand the delay with this!
The silence is deafening!!

[Anfield89]

Should really be starting to build it as soon as the season is over! Don't understand the delay with this!
The silence is deafening!!

I’ve never expected it to be built or started until the main has been paid off.