Topic: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics (*)

[jepovic]

It sounds really, really stupid to say considering the result and what happened....but I really don't think we were particularly bad defensively. Its pretty annoying because we tend to defend quite well apart from two or three occasions where its suddenly really bad. Lovren I thought was excellent pretty much throughout, Gomez I thought really wasn't particularly bad at all, I don't think Klavan particularly stood out as particularly poor, Moreno was fine before his booking, Karius was pretty good.

We conceded three, and they had one in the inside of the post and one in the crossbar. And a few more great chances that they failed to convert. It could have been 5-6 goals conceded (and scored, but that's a different story).
I think our defense as a team is very poor overall. It's unbelievably easy to play through our midfield.

[El Lobo]

We conceded three, and they had one in the inside of the post and one in the crossbar. And a few more great chances that they failed to convert. It could have been 5-6 goals conceded (and scored, but that's a different story).
I think our defense as a team is very poor overall. It's unbelievably easy to play through our midfield.

Yeah I know mate, I watched the same game

[jepovic]

Yeah I know mate, I watched the same game

you sure? 

[El Lobo]

you sure? 

They honestly did a lot of good things, which is why its so frustrating.

[Clint Eastwood]

I don't think our wingers help our fullbacks out enough and our CM's don't put pressure on their opposite numbers enough. That's the problem  with our front 6 all being attacking players I guess. Works well going forward, but awful when we are under the kosh.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Does anyone have stats from Gini and Hendo?

Henderson:

56% pass percentage
0 aerial duels won
0 tackles
0 clearances
0 blocks
3 interceptions
1 yellow card

Wijnaldum:

75% pass percentage
1 aerial duel won
1 tackle
1 clearance
0 blocks
0 interceptions

Can (27 minutes):

63% pass percentage
3 aerial duels won
1 tackle
1 clearance
1 block
0 interceptions
1 yellow card

[clinical]

I don't think our wingers help our fullbacks out enough and our CM's don't put pressure on their opposite numbers enough. That's the problem  with our front 6 all being attacking players I guess. Works well going forward, but awful when we are under the kosh.

It's been said time and time again for 5 years we need a DM. Rodgers and Klopp both think not, yet we continuously concede so many goals with no improvement due to lack of protection in midfield. Our cbs aren't great but they are made to look worse because of that. You put spurs back 4 in our team they wouldn't look half as good as they do now.

[SerbianScouser]

For me it's crystal clear that for our system to work we need an elite DM ball winner.

Henderson is pretty much on par, he doesn't make glaring mistakes but the issue is that we need a lot more to compensate for all the attacking intentions we have in our front 4 and in order to reach that balance our DM needs to be somebody who is highly disruptive, somebody who dominates challenges, anticipates and reads the game. Keita pretty much ticks all these boxes but it mighty be a big waste to restrict him like that.

However this simply can't go on. Henderson had 0 tackles last season, he was a complete non-factor without the ball. We simply can't go on having a DM who is this easy to play against. We have outstanding players in our front 4, players who can play in any team in the world and we're gonna need to do something similar at DM - a truly disruptive player who can allow us to have a foothold in games because last night in second half we had none.

[clinical]

For me it's crystal clear that for our system to work we need an elite DM ball winner.

Henderson is pretty much on par, he doesn't make glaring mistakes but the issue is that we need a lot more to compensate for all the attacking intentions we have in our front 4 and in order to reach that balance our DM needs to be somebody who is highly disruptive, somebody who dominates challenges, anticipates and reads the game. Keita pretty much ticks all these boxes but it mighty be a big waste to restrict him like that.

However this simply can't go on. Henderson had 0 tackles last season, he was a complete non-factor without the ball. We simply can't go on having a DM who is this easy to play against. We have outstanding players in our front 4, players who can play in any team in the world and we're gonna need to do something similar at DM - a truly disruptive player who can allow us to have a foothold in games because last night in second half we had none.

100% agree bar the Keita bit. He's the link between the defence and attack, box to box if you like. A DM Keita and Coutinho/Lallana in midfield would have the balance we need. There's no balance in there at the minute. The Hendo no.6 experiment has failed.

[iamnant]

It sounds really, really stupid to say considering the result and what happened....but I really don't think we were particularly bad defensively. Its pretty annoying because we tend to defend quite well apart from two or three occasions where its suddenly really bad. Lovren I thought was excellent pretty much throughout, Gomez I thought really wasn't particularly bad at all, I don't think Klavan particularly stood out as particularly poor, Moreno was fine before his booking, Karius was pretty good.

Glad to see someone else thinking this. Gomez was really struggling in the first half but was really good in that second half (although did have one brain fart where he though Karius was going to come out to the edge of the box to pick up a loose ball), Lovren was decent and Klavan was ok - they weren't horrific, and the last minute equaliser was a typical end of match, brains switched off moment, which was obviously incredibly disappointing.

Moreno left his position a few times in the first half and was caught out (that chance that went just beyond the post) but what annoyed me with him was that he didn't fix this in the second half, and those horrific errors for 2 of the goals aside, was all over the place again.

The glaring problem last night was our midfield, which was ballsy away from home against such a good side - it paid off well in the first half, but in that second half it was caught out big time as we all saw. Reminded me of the Leicester City match in the league cup - hammered them first half, got hammered in the second half.

Klopp addressed that bringing Can on but even then Henderson was really disappointing, especially as captain.

Is it really annoying of me to really want us to have a proper CDM for these kinds of matches? Or is that a bit of a Jamie Redknapp thing to say?

[LallanaInPyjamas]

For me it's crystal clear that for our system to work we need an elite DM ball winner.

Henderson is pretty much on par, he doesn't make glaring mistakes but the issue is that we need a lot more to compensate for all the attacking intentions we have in our front 4 and in order to reach that balance our DM needs to be somebody who is highly disruptive, somebody who dominates challenges, anticipates and reads the game. Keita pretty much ticks all these boxes but it mighty be a big waste to restrict him like that.

However this simply can't go on. Henderson had 0 tackles last season, he was a complete non-factor without the ball. We simply can't go on having a DM who is this easy to play against. We have outstanding players in our front 4, players who can play in any team in the world and we're gonna need to do something similar at DM - a truly disruptive player who can allow us to have a foothold in games because last night in second half we had none.

Good post.

The bold is a concern for me. From what I've seen of Keita, he shouldn't be in our back six in games against quality opposition. He should be being brought in as a (great, big, huge) upgrade on Wijnaldum. I.e. make more tackles/interceptions, but also receive the ball in tight areas and distribute/dribble effectively in the way Lallana does. But as a supporting figure for our '6' from the '8' position, not as the '6' himself.

He's a fantastic footballer who has so much to offer in the final third. He's also 5 foot 6. There's no way he should be sitting in front of our back four in most games. And yet given how we've seen the regularity Klopp drop players deeper - Wijnaldum from a 10 to an 8, Lallana from a 10 to an 8, Henderson from an 8 to a 6 - my fear is that he may see Keita as the solution in that position.

Hopefully I'm wrong because, if we can get an eight pairing of Keita and Lallana, then disruption in that six position would be sufficient. My concern is as soon as you remove one - or both - of them, then that defensive midfielder is going to need to be excellent on and off the ball to remove pressure when required. We've seen enough of Henderson and Wijnaldum now to know they're not capable.

[SerbianScouser]

I wouldn't worry much about his height for no.6. Teams are winning leagues by having Kante there. Ideally we'd have Keita as 8 and a proper, specialist DM. It would be extremely worrying if the penny hasn't dropped for Klopp last night.

We are in a situation where our striker is 10x better defender than our DM - and I say this in all seriousness. If you had Firmino last night at DM in the second half we would have had so much more of a foothold in game, he's significantly more difficult to play against. And this is a ridiculous situation that needs to be addressed urgently if not for our defence than at least for our forwards who are ready now to conquer the bloody world if the lads at the back could actually break some freaking plays up.

[Chris~]

Why is it a concern? He hasn't even joined yet and you're concerned Klopp is going to waste him. That's mad.

Rather be excited that he's going to be a fantastic midfielder for us.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

I wouldn't worry much about his height for no.6. Teams are winning leagues by having Kante there. Ideally we'd have Keita as 8 and a proper, specialist DM. It would be extremely worrying if the penny hasn't dropped for Klopp last night.

We are in a situation where our striker is 10x better defender than our DM - and I say this in all seriousness. If you had Firmino last night at DM in the second half we would have had so much more of a foothold in game, he's significantly more difficult to play against. And this is a ridiculous situation that needs to be addressed urgently if not for our defence than at least for our forwards who are ready now to conquer the bloody world if the lads at the back could actually break some freaking plays up.

Chelsea have Kante there but they also had/have Matic/Bakayoko and a back three behind them. PSG have Verratti but they also have Motta/Rabiot. City are breaking the mould slightly with Fernandinho alone ahead of a back four but I think he's more in the Wijnaldum height region than Kante or Keita. He's also got a good leap on him.

Size isn't everything and if we had, say, Lovren and van Dijk behind Keita, with perhaps height from one of the full-backs instead, we'd get away with it more often than not. I don't want us to keep "getting away" with it though. This side has been lacking someone with composure, height and steel at the base of midfield for far too long.

[clinical]

Why is it a concern? He hasn't even joined yet and you're concerned Klopp is going to waste him. That's mad.

Rather be excited that he's going to be a fantastic midfielder for us.

There's one thing for certain Klopp won't waste him in a DM role mate, as he doesn't want one.

[vblfc]

Hard to understand why we seem so mentally fragile at times. It’s like a switch is pushed and down we go. The impact of this is across the team in general but some players just turn to Jelly. You can feel it kickng in and then it seems we dont have the way to drive against it, slow it or reverse it. We saw 2 completely different mindsets in one game and the difference from half to half is a roller coaster.
What’s worse is when we downward spiral it can be fast and full on. Have to say outstanding first half so we know we can do it.  Now it’s a mentality to stay at that level or adapt when opposition change or charge.

[lionel_messias]

For me it's crystal clear that for our system to work we need an elite DM ball winner.

Henderson is pretty much on par, he doesn't make glaring mistakes but the issue is that we need a lot more to compensate for all the attacking intentions we have in our front 4 and in order to reach that balance our DM needs to be somebody who is highly disruptive, somebody who dominates challenges, anticipates and reads the game. Keita pretty much ticks all these boxes but it mighty be a big waste to restrict him like that.

However this simply can't go on. Henderson had 0 tackles last season, he was a complete non-factor without the ball. We simply can't go on having a DM who is this easy to play against. We have outstanding players in our front 4, players who can play in any team in the world and we're gonna need to do something similar at DM - a truly disruptive player who can allow us to have a foothold in games because last night in second half we had none.

From your keyboard directly to Liverpool management. I cannot for the life of me think that Klopp doesn't see this. We are most certainly not '3-3' -ing our way to any major titles, it is not possible.

[DanA]

I think in an ideal situation we'd have a proper defensive mid as an alternative. It could have given us a bit more defensive cover and killed off the game. I don't think the Henderson no.6 experiment has failed, I just think it's not a blanket solution for every situation. There is a place for Henderson as a no.6 in some games IMO and a place for him to play beside a more defensive option give us a more solid midfield.

This was a difficult away tie, we should be able to treat it like one by having the right options available. Milner, Wijnaldum, Coutinho, Lallana, Can, Henderson.......the options are simply unbalanced and too attacking minded. I think if we were to replace Milner and Can with Keita and a proper defensive midfielder, things would be a lot more effective in midfield and Klopp would have a lot more tactical options at his disposal. A game like that could be killed off.

[jepovic]

I think in an ideal situation we'd have a proper defensive mid as an alternative. It could have given us a bit more defensive cover and killed off the game. I don't think the Henderson no.6 experiment has failed, I just think it's not a blanket solution for every situation. There is a place for Henderson as a no.6 in some games IMO and a place for him to play beside a more defensive option give us a more solid midfield.

It wouldn't help much with a proper DM, if that DM is supposed to be everywhere like Henderson. Just a few minutes before the end, he tries to play 1-2s up at near the corner flag.  I think Gomez was there too.

[Suareznumber7]

I thought our shape was all wrong second half. There seems to be a huge gap between midfield and defence. The amount of time one of there players picked it up between our centre halves and Henderson and Wijnaldum, well I must of lost count.

This happens way too often, in all our games, not just this one.  Henderson is routinely running out leaving huge gaps between the midfield and back lines.  Ideally, when he does run out the opposite center midfielder should rotate in to cover but the Hendo doesn’t always recognize when those players are not in a position to rotate in. 

[Clint Eastwood]

I wouldn't worry much about his height for no.6. Teams are winning leagues by having Kante there. Ideally we'd have Keita as 8 and a proper, specialist DM. It would be extremely worrying if the penny hasn't dropped for Klopp last night.

We are in a situation where our striker is 10x better defender than our DM - and I say this in all seriousness. If you had Firmino last night at DM in the second half we would have had so much more of a foothold in game, he's significantly more difficult to play against. And this is a ridiculous situation that needs to be addressed urgently if not for our defence than at least for our forwards who are ready now to conquer the bloody world if the lads at the back could actually break some freaking plays up.

Pretty much. Ideally one who's calm, Henderson's style of play is a bit too 'excited' for that position, his passing is fast and erratic and he buzzes about too much, if he's the man in the middle he's just going to spread that kind of anxiety throughout the team. Pre-injury Lucas would have suited us well. We haven't had a midfielder capable of winning a tackle since that Lucas.

[Suareznumber7]

We conceded three, and they had one in the inside of the post and one in the crossbar. And a few more great chances that they failed to convert. It could have been 5-6 goals conceded (and scored, but that's a different story).
I think our defense as a team is very poor overall. It's unbelievably easy to play through our midfield.

Our defense as a team was really poor in that second half but our back line was not the major problem.  It’s time we stop focusing on the back line and put some focus on the midfield that provides absolutely no protection and couldn’t keep possession for the life of them yesterday. 

[Suareznumber7]

For me it's crystal clear that for our system to work we need an elite DM ball winner.

Henderson is pretty much on par, he doesn't make glaring mistakes but the issue is that we need a lot more to compensate for all the attacking intentions we have in our front 4 and in order to reach that balance our DM needs to be somebody who is highly disruptive, somebody who dominates challenges, anticipates and reads the game. Keita pretty much ticks all these boxes but it mighty be a big waste to restrict him like that.

However this simply can't go on. Henderson had 0 tackles last season, he was a complete non-factor without the ball. We simply can't go on having a DM who is this easy to play against. We have outstanding players in our front 4, players who can play in any team in the world and we're gonna need to do something similar at DM - a truly disruptive player who can allow us to have a foothold in games because last night in second half we had none.

I’m hoping we see a switch to a 4-2-3-1 when Keita comes in next year.  Putting an elite ball playing #6 next to Keita in that 2 will help balance the side and will give us better protection for our backs without restricting Keita and our pressing game. 

[killer-heels]

I’m hoping we see a switch to a 4-2-3-1 when Keita comes in next year.  Putting an elite ball playing #6 next to Keita in that 2 will help balance the side and will give us better protection for our backs without restricting Keita and our pressing game. 

Who would be the 10? Because if we are going to 4-2-3-1 then Coutinho or Mane isnt getting into the side.

[Jookie]

I wouldn't worry much about his height for no.6. Teams are winning leagues by having Kante there. Ideally we'd have Keita as 8 and a proper, specialist DM. It would be extremely worrying if the penny hasn't dropped for Klopp last night.

Kante played for a team who defended deep and looked to break.

That's a completely different role to one where we press high up and the No.6 is on occasions acting like an auxiliary CB. Press high and the park the bus teams in the league go long to a target man to gain territorial advantage. You need someone with a physical and aerial presence to counter that. It's reason why I think Klopp has always played a tall physical player in the No.6 role. It's the reason why I think there's virtually no chance you'll see Keita in the No.6 role in this system.

[Suareznumber7]

Who would be the 10? Because if we are going to 4-2-3-1 then Coutinho or Mane isnt getting into the side.

Why wouldn’t you put Coutinho as the 10?  Give him more freedom and space to get on the ball and create.  Firmino could continue to play as a false 9 to create overloads in midfield and allow the same runs for Mane and Salah that we have now. 

[killer-heels]

Why wouldn’t you put Coutinho as the 10?  Give him more freedom and space to get on the ball and create.  Firmino could continue to play as a false 9 to create overloads in midfield and allow the same runs for Mane and Salah that we have now. 

Coutinho has played shite as a 10 every time he has played. He was pretty much a 10 yesterday. He is a player who thrives on providing big moments but doesnt threaten or dominate games like other 10’s can. Id expect him to be more like David Silva.

If we are to be playing a 10 then Coutinho shifts wide left. You can then argue who makes way out of Salah and Mane.

[SerbianScouser]

Kante played for a team who defended deep and looked to break.

We defended deep and looked to break last night and conceded 3 goals in 45 minutes.

In theory Klopp was right to set us up a bit deeper just as we did at W.Ham so we could utilize all our pace but what's even more worrying than conceding while being open is conceding while being organized behind the ball. If we had Kante last night we would have been significantly more disruptive, we had only 30% possession and our DM had 0 tackles. That's abhorrent.

[Suareznumber7]

Coutinho has played shite as a 10 every time he has played. He was pretty much a 10 yesterday. He is a player who thrives on providing big moments but doesnt threaten or dominate games like other 10’s can. Id expect him to be more like David Silva.

If we are to be playing a 10 then Coutinho shifts wide left. You can then argue who makes way out of Salah and Mane.

So, if you don’t want Coutinho to be the 10 then why not Firmino.  Either Salah or Mane as the #9 and Coutinho on the left.  Or, in the more then possible scenario that Coutinho is sold this summer then we could play Lallana in the 10 role and keep the front 3 where they are. 

[killer-heels]

So, if you don’t want Coutinho to be the 10 then why not Firmino.  Either Salah or Mane as the #9 and Coutinho on the left.  Or, in the more then possible scenario that Coutinho is sold this summer then we could play Lallana in the 10 role and keep the front 3 where they are. 

No i like the 4-3-3. Id like a better injection of ability to keep the ball in midfield and we would be fine.

My worry is that both Coutinho and Keita are similar but id have one of them with Lallana and bring in someone who sits deeper who is more proficient on the ball.

[WisconsinRed]

It sounds really, really stupid to say considering the result and what happened....but I really don't think we were particularly bad defensively. Its pretty annoying because we tend to defend quite well apart from two or three occasions where its suddenly really bad. Lovren I thought was excellent pretty much throughout, Gomez I thought really wasn't particularly bad at all, I don't think Klavan particularly stood out as particularly poor, Moreno was fine before his booking, Karius was pretty good.

It does sound really stupid. If there are two or three occasions where it's really bad then we haven't defended well.

[Jookie]

We defended deep and looked to break last night and conceded 3 goals in 45 minutes.

In theory Klopp was right to set us up a bit deeper just as we did at W.Ham so we could utilize all our pace but what's even more worrying than conceding while being open is conceding while being organized behind the ball. If we had Kante last night we would have been significantly more disruptive, we had only 30% possession and our DM had 0 tackles. That's abhorrent.

Kante as a No.6 last night would have been fine.

My point was that for the vast majority of games we play against teams who are happy to defend deep against us. My take on it is that it requires different attributes for a No.6 to excel in that system compared with last night's example or Leicester in 2015/16. Particularly for our current system where No.6 look like he's being asked to do certain things a normal defensive, or screening, midfielder would not be asked to do.

The way I see how Klopp sets up, he generally wants all 11 players who take up defensive positions when not in possession of the ball. For the front 6 it's about maintaining certain positions, closing down passing lanes and when the opportunity arises press high up the pitch based on certain triggers. The only time he moves away from this is when he'll sometimes let the wide players hold a high position (Hoffenheim away was an example of this). I'm assuming this is to increase the chances of a counter attack and/or put a seed of doubt in the oppositions mind with regards to pushing men forward or playing a high line.

[Suareznumber7]

No i like the 4-3-3. Id like a better injection of ability to keep the ball in midfield and we would be fine.

My worry is that both Coutinho and Keita are similar but id have one of them with Lallana and bring in someone who sits deeper who is more proficient on the ball.

Coutinho and Keita aren’t really similar at all.  At least from what I’ve seen of Keita.  The one thing that you and I do agree on though, a better ability to keep the ball in midfield will make a load of difference which is why I’d like a top quality ball playing #6 to come in. 

[killer-heels]

Coutinho and Keita aren’t really similar at all.  At least from what I’ve seen of Keita.  The one thing that you and I do agree on though, a better ability to keep the ball in midfield will make a load of difference which is why I’d like a top quality ball playing #6 to come in. 

Coutinho plays on moments. He doesnt control a game. Keita also is very progressive but as a result his pass success rate isnt high. In isolation its not a problem but if you have two players like that then your not keeping the ball for long periods.

[Coolie High]

Coutinho has played shite as a 10 every time he has played. He was pretty much a 10 yesterday. He is a player who thrives on providing big moments but doesnt threaten or dominate games like other 10’s can. Id expect him to be more like David Silva.

If we are to be playing a 10 then Coutinho shifts wide left. You can then argue who makes way out of Salah and Mane.

What other number 10's are you talking about?

[El Lobo]

It does sound really stupid. If there are two or three occasions where it's really bad then we haven't defended well.

Excellent, you summed up most of my post

Well in Wisconsin Red, well in.

[Coolie High]

Coutinho plays on moments. He doesnt control a game. Keita also is very progressive but as a result his pass success rate isnt high. In isolation its not a problem but if you have two players like that then your not keeping the ball for long periods.

Don't agree, especially if you have a DM in the mould of a Jorginho or Diawara for example who is adept at playmaking and controlling games as well.

[SerbianScouser]

Coutinho plays on moments. He doesnt control a game.

How can you control a game when the keeper hoofs 26 times, Lovren 11 times - whether it was a game plan or not. We never even tried to pass out from the back so not only have hoofed non stop we also have a DM who doesn't want to do anything with the ball unless he's in oceans of space to receive it in.

Phil was level above everyone on the pitch quality wise, we never even tried to use him properly.

[WisconsinRed]

Excellent, you summed up most of my post

Well in Wisconsin Red, well in.

Liverpool fans these days seem to accept not particularly bad as the benchmark these days. You are one of them eel lobo, one of them. 

[Chakan]

How can you control a game when the keeper hoofs 26 times, Lovren 11 times - whether it was a game plan or not. We never even tried to pass out from the back so not only have hoofed non stop we also have a DM who doesn't want to do anything with the ball unless he's in oceans of space to receive it in.

Phil was level above everyone on the pitch quality wise, we never even tried to use him properly.

Henderson and Gini treat the ball like a game of hot potato.